Rock Island building CZ clones now???


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kentucky_smith
November 16, 2007, 09:39 AM
http://www.centerfiresystems.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=1474

http://www.centerfiresystems.com/ProductImages/handguns/AC-MAP1FS-B.jpg

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Chrome
November 16, 2007, 11:34 AM
I have a hard time with the price tag when a for less than a $100 more you can get the real thing.

Later,
Chrome...

esq_stu
November 16, 2007, 11:55 AM
I have a hard time with the price tag when a for less than a $100 more you can get the real thing.Give 'em a few months - these will probably be heavily discounted. IMI makes a polymer CZ clone that looks like the RI and it feels pretty junky.

The King of Pants
November 16, 2007, 12:20 PM
With a $50-75 discount I might be interested if it shoots as nice as the Armscor .45s.

Onmilo
November 16, 2007, 12:23 PM
Armscour has a licensing agreement with Tangfolio of Italy to prodice the guns in the Phillipines.
It is actually a copy of a copy,,,,,,,,,,

CZF
November 16, 2007, 03:31 PM
Tanfoglio puts out an excellent product for the most part. There are a few lemons, but every firearms maker has problems.

The RI version should appeal to those in PI that love CZs but find them hard to find/expensive. Like with the Armalite..the stoic Cz75 design lives on!

Autolycus
November 16, 2007, 03:54 PM
Seems it is hard to design your own gun nowadays. I see a lot of clones out on the market.

Blarelli
November 16, 2007, 04:03 PM
That looks identical to the Witness poly-compact.

JHansenAK47
November 16, 2007, 07:26 PM
Seems it is hard to design your own gun nowadays. I see a lot of clones out on the market.
Why spend money on developing a new pistol. Proven designs are easy to rip off or get licensed copies of from countries that build their guns in house.
Just look at FEG or charles dalys 1911s.

wally
November 16, 2007, 08:28 PM
RIA/Armscor support for Tanfoglio pistols would be a huge improvement over EAA!

But I fail to see any reason to buy anything other than the CZ in 9mm or .40S&W, its if you want .38Super, .45ACP, or 10mm where the EAA Witness pistols deliver what CZ doesn't which makes them far more than "clones".

--wally.

Grayrider
November 17, 2007, 09:29 AM
Those are indeed Tanfoglio pistols. As is typical with their partnerships with other gun makers, it is hard to know how much of the guns are produced in Italy and how much by Armscor. I would expect the quality to be much the same.

John

wally
November 17, 2007, 07:28 PM
Tanfoglio puts out an excellent product for the most part. There are a few lemons, but every firearms maker has problems.

True for sure, but having Tanfoglio service in the US handled by EAA will leave you very unhappy should you be unlucky and get a problem gun.

Go over to 1911forum.org and look in the RIA forum where you will find little but reports of great service when problems arise with RIA guns. Enormous difference compared to what reports you'll find for EAA repair service. But if the agreemnet only covers the 9mm & .40S&W Tanfoglio guns, I agree for only a minimal price difference makes more sense to get the real CZ, so the success will depend on how deep they can discount, at least initially if they don't have the .38Super, 10mm and .45ACP guns.

--wally

tinygnat219
November 17, 2007, 07:28 PM
Armscour has a licensing agreement with Tangfolio of Italy to prodice the guns in the Phillipines.
It is actually a copy of a copy,,,,,,,,,,

Which is somehow never as sharp as the original.

jeepmor
November 17, 2007, 07:40 PM
If they make one in 10mm, I'll be sold. My EAA, Tanfoglio Witness is one of those lemony types and I have not sent it back because of the stories I've read regarding EAA's customer service debacle.

If CZ were on the ball enough to make a 10mm, I'd go with the original. Unfortunately, they don't. I love the feel of the CZ, the trigger, the balance, everything. But mine is just does not want to work properly.

I recently acquired a 1076 Smith and it runs like a champ, feels nice and all, but the trigger leaves a lot to be desired compared to the Witness. However, as stated, it runs like a champ, I trust it to work for me should I need it in a dire situation. I'd really like my Witness to take on that role since it's my woods gun and has 6 more rounds of capacity.

Best of luck to Armscor, I'll be watching them closely for a 10mm variant.

jeepmor

sturmgewehr
November 17, 2007, 08:42 PM
It's not like CZ's are expensive, so why would you buy a knock-off of unknown quality when you could just as easily buy the real deal?

Pass.

zachsm
November 17, 2007, 10:33 PM
"It's not like CZ's are expensive, so why would you buy a knock-off of unknown quality when you could just as easily buy the real deal?

Pass."

1. Not many people know anything about it, that can be a bad thing if you look at it that way. give it time.

2. Theres one thing I can make an easy assumption of that will make it better than a cz: a lifetime warranty. Armscor has a great warranty service, which would rate it better than a tanfoglio also in that aspect.

3. From previous experience with armscor weapons, most likely itll probably be better than a cz in quality. They stretch your dollars more efficently.

4. It could be compatible with some tanfoligo parts and mags. if it isn't, no big deal. seriously, i hear all this talk about 'parts availablity'. where most people live, you cannot go to your local walmart to the gun parts aisle. I have a Gander mountain, and they do not carry anything except maybe rifle/shotgun barrels. An arguement may be made for magazines though.

stevemis
November 17, 2007, 10:41 PM
I'd be all for it, although I'd need a really steep discount or an innovative product to be an early adopter. If neither of these are the case, I'll wait for others to test the waters.

As of today, there are now 6 CZ firearms in the house, 5 of which are pistols. Damn gunshows...:-)

1 old 0311
November 18, 2007, 10:27 AM
My CZ's are more accurate than I can shoot. They are finished well. They are also the most reliable pistols I have ever owned.
I am going to spend $50.00 less to get something that MAY equal them, but cant beat them? Not even close!

Waldo Pepper
November 18, 2007, 10:54 AM
I have examined these two pistols (CZ & Witness) and there is real difference in build quality. The Tanfoglio Witness is built far stronger/better, and that may be due to 10mm/45ACP option. The triggers on every Witness has been far better then the CZ's I have looked over. The only thing I have seen that the CZ does better is exterior finish. I would never buy a CZ over a Tanfoglio pistol. As far as shot groups I have seen seen stock Witness pistols out shoot S&W's, Kimber's, Para's to mention a few. My Witrness is a tack driver in 10mm or 45ACP and has never had a FTF or FTE in the year and a half or so I have owned the pistol.

If you buy one of the RIA Witness guns you should/will be able to buy parts and conversion kits for the pistol from EAA and then there is the importer in Canada. I am sure RIA will eventually have the caliber conversion kits, which is a complete slide and one Magazine.

As for as importer goes, maybe EAA is being replaced as the Tanfoglio importer when their contract runs out in the near future. Maybe there was too much feed back after the last contract. There were quite a few emails to the home office in Italy about the poor quality of service fom people on the CZ & Glock 10mm forum.

As far as pricing goes the CZ's around here seem to run about $150 or more for the same caliber.

Grayrider
November 18, 2007, 11:02 AM
My understanding is that Armscor is importing only the guns they offer in the Philippines and that this has no bearing on Tanfoglio's relationship with EAA as the exclusive licensed Tanfoglio importer. Armscor is acting much like MRI or ArmaLite in that they are importing a licensed locally produced Tanfoglio derived pistol and not the original guns. As such you will likely not see any versions of pistols not offered for sale in the Philippines. So unless they make a large frame pistol there, you will not see one here. The Armscor offerings are small frame so only able to chamber 9mm, 9x21, and 40. They would use the small frame magazines that EAA no longer uses in its pistols. Unlike current EAA guns, they cannot be converted to .38 Super, 45, or 10mm by changing uppers and magazines.

John

MachIVshooter
November 18, 2007, 03:53 PM
Which is somehow never as sharp as the original.

Yeah, I'd much rather have that CZ-made compact, standard, polymer, match grade, long barreled, competition or IPSC-ready .38 Super, 9x21, 10mm or .45 ACP.

:rolleyes:

George Hill
November 18, 2007, 04:22 PM
Just to clarify something about the IMI poly framed Desert Eagle pistols... They might not be that impressive in the hand - until after you dump 2000 rounds of mixed ammunition through them. I did this with 2 different examples, and neither one of them jammed once or threw a shot where I didn't want it to go. They are shooting machines that I would put on par with the best poly framed pistol, even those from Beretta, HK, S&W, and Springfield.

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