Proper Grip?


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redneck
November 18, 2007, 09:29 PM
I saw a clip on youtube by Todd Jarret (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Yohikhl9_c) which seems very informative, and decided to try changing my grip to match the technique in the video.
I found that it improved my shooting a little bit. I can get back on target faster and seem to follow through better. The problem I have is that when I rotate my hand to line the gun up with my forearm, and keep my thumb on top of the safety it also rests on top of the slide release. I shot about 10 mags last weekend, and accidentally kept the slide from locking back on 3 or 4 of them. I'm shooting a taurus PT92, so I don't think its just a matter of finding a larger framed gun. I'd have to get a desert eagle...

Any suggestions? Is it just a matter of practice?

I've been trying to shoot more often and would like to get better. I'm planning on picking up a .22 pistol so I can shoot more also.

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XavierBreath
November 18, 2007, 10:56 PM
Jarrett is shooting a 1911. The grip may not transfer to another pistol such as the Taurus PT92 very well.

The 1911 slide release/slide stop was not designed to be released with the strong thumb. That's why there are extended slide releases on the market for the 1911. They usually don't work worth a hoot, but folks still buy them so they can release the slide with the right hand's thumb. The proper way to release the slide from a reload on a 1911 with a non-extended slide stop is to use the weak hand (left) thumb to apply pressure to it as the left hand assumes the firing grip.

The PT92 was designed along the same lines as the Beretta 92, at least in regards to the slide release/slide stop. It is, in fact, designed for a slide release with the right hand's thumb. Thus, when you rest your right hand's thumb up there, it rides the slide release, holding it down and preventing it from locking back the slide.

The film of Jarrett is good, as is his instruction, but you have to modify it a bit to fit the pistol you are shooting.

RevolvingCylinder
November 18, 2007, 11:54 PM
The 1911 slide release/slide stop was not designed to be released with the strong thumb. That's why there are extended slide releases on the market for the 1911. They usually don't work worth a hoot, but folks still buy them so they can release the slide with the right hand's thumb. The proper way to release the slide from a reload on a 1911 with a non-extended slide stop is to use the weak hand (left) thumb to apply pressure to it as the left hand assumes the firing grip.
I've been doing it wrong the whole time! What is the advantage of using the left(weak) thumb, and what do I hurt using my right(dominant) thumb? I don't understand. Why is the technique different than slide locks on other pistols? It's so easy to do with the right thumb. I can effortlessly thumb down the lock while simultaneously seating the magazine like I do on all the other pistols. I can't imagine using the weak thumb would be any faster.

Why would someone ride the slide lock on a 92 or any other pistol? Talk about just asking to slice up your thumb.

Someone explain it to me, I'm confused.:confused:

ETA: I think that assumes everyone has stubby thumbs/small hands, right?

XavierBreath
November 19, 2007, 12:14 AM
I've been doing it wrong the whole time! What is the advantage of using the left(weak) thumb, and what do I hurt using my right(dominant) thumb?If you can reach the 1911 non-extended slide stop without changing the grip of your right hand, no problem. Most people's thumbs are not long enough. If your right thumb can reach a non-extended slide stop on a 1911, then chances are you do not have the pistol aligned with the ulna and the longitudnal axis of your right arm in a Chapman stance, or the center of the triangle of an Isoceles stance, unless you are Andre the Giant.

Changing the grip of the right hand during a reload and return to battery slows the process of returning the gun to action, because both hands must resume their grip. Then the shooter must compensate for minute changes in the strong hand grip. If you want to get your next magazine on target as quick as possible, you might want to try a weak handed slide release. The left thumb lays naturally beside the slide stop. Just release the slide via the slide stop as the left hand resumes it's grip. You have to relinquish the left hand's grip to reload. You do not have to give up the right hand's grip.

Why is the technique different than slide locks on other pistols?Because the distance between the slide stop and the rear of the pistol are different.

Why would someone ride the slide lock on a 92 or any other pistol? Talk about just asking to slice up your thumb.Placing the right thumb on top of a 1911 thumb safety while firing is pretty standard stuff. It helps control recoil through leverage, and it places the web of the hand and therefore the axis of the arm higher up behind the bore axis of the pistol, making follow up shots more accurate by controling recoil. It does not slice the thumb, even if the slide serrations rub on it. To much thumb pressure on the slide may induce failures though.

RevolvingCylinder
November 19, 2007, 12:34 AM
I'm not a French professional wrestler but I can reach it without changing the position of the pistol in my hand or changing my stance whatsoever. The pistol remains aligned with the ulna. I do have longer than average fingers though and I can even turn the pistol slightly away from the ulna toward the outside of my body and still reach it. So it is effortless for me.

I've never liked the feel of riding the thumb safety. It's so uncomfortable. and that's the instance where I have to turn the pistol toward the outside and misalign it with the ulna to make it comfortable. This also slightly relaxes the contact the "crotch" of my hand has with the grip safety/backstrap. I didn't think I had an unusual hand anatomy but I guess I do.

Because the distance between the slide stop and the rear of the pistol are different.
I hadn't taken that into account since I really haven't thought about it before but I see it now.

W.E.G.
November 19, 2007, 12:40 AM
The only "safety" lever on my defensive pistol is located on the trigger.

XavierBreath
November 19, 2007, 01:01 AM
If it works for ya RC, it works. You must have uncommonly large hands or long thumbs.

The only "safety" lever on my defensive pistol is located on the trigger.Glock shooter eh? the thumb on the safety thing ain't gonna work for you........:neener:

redneck
November 19, 2007, 06:55 PM
Thanks Xavier
I had a feeling it was more of a 1911 thing, but being a backyard shooter most of my life I haven't gotten into technique much beyond what feels comfortable. Been trying to train a little more seriously since joining a range, and thought some of the stuff in the video looked pretty good. I think the alignment with your forearm is probably the most important part to take away from it though. I'll have to do some more experimenting with my grip.

Shaner
November 19, 2007, 08:44 PM
I personally wasn't trained to use the slide release in this manner. If any time my gun needs a reload I do it before the mag runs empty. Saves the hassle of performing the step alltogether.

I, by no means, am saying what Xavier or Todd Jarret is wrong or impractical. Actually, I think the practices here are sound. But, it's not my style...

My hay penny's worth...

Navy87Guy
November 20, 2007, 10:08 PM
:
Why would someone ride the slide lock on a 92 or any other pistol? Talk about just asking to slice up your thumb.

Placing the right thumb on top of a 1911 thumb safety while firing is pretty standard stuff. It helps control recoil through leverage, and it places the web of the hand and therefore the axis of the arm higher up behind the bore axis of the pistol, making follow up shots more accurate by controling recoil. It does not slice the thumb, even if the slide serrations rub on it. To much thumb pressure on the slide may induce failures though.

Your description of the thumb on the safety of the 1911 is accurate -- unfortunately you answered the wrong question. He was asking about riding the slide stop - not the safety.

The answer is that no one (generally) rides the slide stop intentionally. It's usually a byproduct of improper thumb placement. I find it happens to me more often with compact and subcompact guns. I don't have problems with any of my full-sized CZs or Berettas. But every hand is different...you need to find the grip that works with your gun or the gun that works with your grip.

Jim

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