Need a "truck gun"...is the Sigma that bad?


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lloydkristmas
November 18, 2007, 11:34 PM
http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=263967

Hey guys...posted the above link not too long ago, and I'm looking for a "truck gun" so-to-speak for this sort of thing. If you dont care to read the thread, it was essentially a near-carjacking/robbery.

I dont need anything super nice or classy, just something reliable that will shoot when I pull the trigger. I already have a USP .45 for nightstand duty but I dont like the idea of leaving a gun like that in my car day in and day out. I recently got a part time job (im in school) at a sporting goods store, and I have access to 15% off of guns as a perk. I was tossing around the idea of picking up a fairly inexpensive pistol to keep in the car, and looked at guns like the CZ, Sigma, Bersa, Taurus, etc etc.

What initially drew me to the Sigma is the fact that S&W has this $50 dollar rebate + 2 free magazines deal, plus I get my discount, so I could basically walk out of the store with a Sigma 9 or 40 for around $220 bucks. Sure the trigger pull sucks, but I'm picturing usage from in-car distances, or not much further, so this sort of becomes a non issue. Heres my question: Aside from the sheisty trigger, are there any other real "problems" with the Sigma or do people just rag on it because its a cheap gun?

Again, I dont really care about match accuracy...I have other guns for that.... Please keep in mind that I'm only considering this gun because I can access such a low price for it. I know there is better to be had, but thats just not what I need right now. I want dead nuts reliability and consistency of function. Will the Sigma put out? or should I look for something different?

Thanks guys

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bhp9mm
November 18, 2007, 11:53 PM
sigma are not that bad the work i have the 40ve the tiggers kind of suck but the ones i have seen shoot every time and don't jam its a good gun for truck gun.

wally
November 18, 2007, 11:55 PM
With the current $50 rebate and two free magazine offer good the rest of the year the Sigma is perfect for this purpose. You have to pay the full price to the dealer, S&W sends you the rebate and magazines later.

OTOH for $100-$150 more you can get the M&P model with the same deal.

Or if you are in the market for an AR you can get any S&W AR model and a Sigma for $99.

I find the Sigma accurate, but the trigger is a hinderence for any speed shooting or bullseye games.

Cheap, reliable, and the fantastic S&W warranty support. Its very easy to spend more and get less. But there are few new current production guns with worse triggers -- its heavy with a long reset. I consider the Glocks with the "NY trigger" worse but they can be fixed for $30 or less. You can't really do anything to improve the Sigma trigger without reducing reliability.

--wally.

jayp
November 19, 2007, 12:02 AM
Yes the Sigma has a stout trigger pull.

It is also reliable, high capacity, light, corrosion resistant and backed by the best customer service and lifetime warantee in the industry.

I've got a Glock, a Sig, and a couple of HK's. I like my Sigma too. I keep the Sigma locked in a Center of Mass lockbox in my car. I think it is a bargin, especially with the refund and the free magazines.

winddummy
November 19, 2007, 12:23 AM
With about 30 min work you can change the trigger pull to what ever you want. Back 1n 1994 when Glock sued S&W over copying there designs, part of the settlement was removing a section on the sear housing, which was there to prevent the sear from moving downward without pulling the trigger. The redesign allowed the sear to possibly move down under a very severe strike on the bottom of the hand grip. They resolved this by installing a stiffer sear spring, causing a stiffer trigger pull.. If you have an assortment of gun quality springs replace it, if not , it's possible to shorten the spring and strech it to the original length. This modification will not endanger anyone because the stricker is not fully loaded, this is done while pulling the trigger. Please excuse the spelling, just finished a 14 hour work day.

TimboKhan
November 19, 2007, 12:25 AM
I think a lot of the concern you see about the current Sigmas is a direct result of the spectacular craptasticness of the old Sigmas. For better or for worse, gun enthusiasts neither forgive nor forget very easily.

The current Sigmas are inexpensive, work fine, and are good enough that the Afghani's are issuing them to their police. You will be perfectly well served with a Sigma as your truck gun.

M1A1Gunner
November 19, 2007, 12:35 AM
don't laugh, but don't discount a Hi-point. I use my C9 9mm as my car gun and that's where it stays. $150 NIB, lifetime warranty and you won't be out alot of $'s it it gets missing. for 15 bucks more get a 10 rnd mag to replace the 8 rnd'r it comes with

wideym
November 19, 2007, 12:43 AM
If you want a trunk gun, not a glove box gun, go with a cheap/reliable rifle or shotgun. If you really need a gun you will wish you had a longgun instead of a pistol no matter what the make or model.

When I say cheap/reliable I mean something you won't go all to pieces over if your car is stolen or if you use it and the police take into evidence.

An SKS, WASR, Enfield, or Mauser would fit the bill nicely. All are reliable and relatively inexpencive.

MAX100
November 19, 2007, 01:02 AM
There is way to lighten the trigger pull on the Sigma and it still be reliable. Pull the trigger block assembly in the back of the gun. There will be two springs a fat one around a skinny one. The fat one is there to increase the trigger pull. Remove it and keep the inter small skinny spring. That will greatly decrease the trigger pull. There are a few small parts and pins. You have look at the way they go together before you take them apart. Study them well. The pins can be very hard to put back in with just the skinny spring. Good Luck!

GC

19-3Ben
November 19, 2007, 01:15 AM
Sigma is a great deal with the current rebate+mags. Do it.

TimboKhan
November 19, 2007, 01:23 AM
If you want a trunk gun, not a glove box gun, go with a cheap/reliable rifle or shotgun. If you really need a gun you will wish you had a longgun instead of a pistol no matter what the make or model.

Truck gun. I happen to agree with you that it is nice to have a rifle in the trunk, but they are unwieldy at best in the confines of the cab. This is one area that I believe that the pistol does have a marked advantage.

Also, while I think the Sigma is just fine (and said so earlier), have you considered finding a used Ruger P-Series? They aren't all that expensive new, and used, they are even better. I am not trying to deflect your interest in a Sigma so much as to maybe give you options, and the P Series are rugged, reliable guns. As a matter of fact, I use my P90 as my main truck gun.

Blarelli
November 19, 2007, 02:38 AM
The P-series rugers can usually be found in fantastic condition for under $300. Also, there seem to be a lot of used sig 220's for $300ish. Either would be a much better deal then the sigma in my opinion.

varoadking
November 19, 2007, 03:08 AM
Also, there seem to be a lot of used sig 220's for $300ish.

Did you mean P225's (P6's)? If not - please point me in the direction of a P220 for $300ish...

ryan in maine
November 19, 2007, 04:45 AM
Truck gun? Check Summit Gun Broker. Save money for another month and you've got a lot of choices for under $400. Already a little banged up so you don't have to feel bad! Course, some firearms like the CZ-75B start at about $400 new, etc. I'd get something I wouldn't mind banging around though.

Personally, I think the trigger on the Sigma is simply terrible. I wouldn't buy a gun with a terrible trigger and justify it with, "It's only going to be in the truck", you know? Hell, your house gun is only going to be in your house. Your carry gun is only going to be in your holster/pocket. I wouldn't bother with the Sigma, myself. I want a good trigger no matter where I happen to be if I need to defend myself like that.

Here's an example (and will also link you to SGB): S&W 4046 (http://www.summitgunbroker.com/1796604.html) with night sighs and three mags for $295.

bpisler
November 19, 2007, 05:03 AM
Buy the Sigma and with the money
you'll save get a case of 9mm and
hit the range.The Sigma can be quite
accurate with a smooth pull on the
trigger,treat it like a DA revolver
and you shouldn't have any problems.
The trigger will get smoother and
lighten up a little with use.

jahwarrior
November 19, 2007, 06:06 AM
i'd definitely recommend the sigms. it's tough, reliable, and affordable.

Blarelli
November 19, 2007, 08:12 AM
Did you mean P225's (P6's)? If not - please point me in the direction of a P220 for $300ish...

VanWagenen Finance in Orem, Utah. Currently has 2 220's, both with 2 mags for $300. One 220 with night sights for $340. All have the regular holster wear, but seem to be in good condition. All three have been on display for months and haven't sold.

stevereno1
November 19, 2007, 03:49 PM
your carry gun should be your truck gun, and your truck gun should be your "watching scooby doo while laying on your couch gun".

Storm
November 19, 2007, 06:42 PM
A P Series Ruger, new or used, fits the bill perfectly.

ArchAngelCD
November 20, 2007, 03:47 AM
In this situation having a gun in your trunk would have done no good. Even if it were in your pocket it wouldn't have done any good. You have to keep your anti-carjack gun available like the knife you reached for. DeSantis makes the Kingston Car Seat Holster (http://www.desantisholster.com/n92.html). It simply works.

If you want a reliable pistol in 40 S&W I suggest the Stoeger Couger (http://www.stoegerindustries.com/firearms/cougar8000.tpl). All the right-ups have been good on this pistol. It was designed as a .40 S&W and the 9mm was added later. It has a List Price of only $370 but can be found new for ~$300.

BTW, I would press charges on this clown when they find him. It's no joke to scare someone like that just to "punk" them. Lets see how funny it is when he's sitting in jail for 5 years for attempted carjacking!

mainebear
November 20, 2007, 07:58 PM
#1 on the P series Ruger. Ugly as sin but reliable reliable reliable. They're everywhere and reasonable

evan price
November 21, 2007, 02:42 AM
Sigmas (the new VEs) are not that bad of guns. I had one. It always went bang and it was accurate once I got used to the trigger. It was a great garage toolbox gun. Stainless slide, mags, and barrel.
However it never made me warm and fuzzy and I sold it.

pablo45
November 21, 2007, 05:34 AM
Save your money and just a little more you can get a Glock,H&K, Sig or something else. I had the gun and got rid of it as soon as I could.

Z71
November 21, 2007, 07:36 AM
I bought one of the first ones for a service pistol when I was a LEO in the mid 1990's. Pretty bad experience! Trigger mechanism wasn't very good when new, went to peices pretty quick, maybe 300-400 shots and something crumbled in the trigger mechanism. Trigger got worse and worse until it wouldn't fire at all. Smith&Wesson fixed it with some grumbling, and it came back working. I shot it some after that, and it felt like the trigger was starting the same ***** again. I ditched it before it crapped out again. Pretty bad when a cop has to buy another gun so he can send his new pistol back to the factory for repairs!

It was an early gun, people don't seem to be griping about the later pistols. I'm sure S&W have them running good now. However I myself wouldn't own another, too many bad memorys!

csay
November 21, 2007, 08:39 AM
Good guns. They are reliable and accurate. I have 2 now, and never a problem.

d20111a
November 22, 2007, 12:07 PM
I bought my Sigma specifically for a "truck Gun". I picked up a used 40VE at a gun show for a good price. I went looking for a new one during the first "mag rebate", but decided to save cash and go used since it was just going to sit around in the truck and see limited carry. I've not had a single malfunction with it yet.

Ratshooter
November 22, 2007, 06:49 PM
I bought a Sigma about a year and a half ago. I really liked it. Accurate, reliable and inexpensive. Then i started hearing stories and reading internet gurus that said it was bad. I had a chance to sell it for what i paid for it and so i did. I regretted it as soon as it was done.

When S&W had the offer to get 50 bucks and two free mags i bought another 9mm. The trigger on the new one is better than the first. I never thought the first was that bad. It also came with a flashlight, batteries and spare bulb. I have shot a lot of double action revolvers over the years. Maybe that is why i don't think the trigger is that bad. It is not as smooth as the trigger on the Kahr CW9 i owned but the Sigma feeds much better and smoother. The trigger is better than the trigger on my model 39 and is the same for each shot instead of double to single action.

I sold a P89 to buy the Sigma and had money left over. The Sigma fully loaded weighs 1 once less than the P89 empty.

wally
November 22, 2007, 08:05 PM
when I was a LEO in the mid 1990's. Pretty bad experience!

S&W is a very different company now, with new management that has really turned things around! Then they were run by bean counters, eager to sell out gun owners to Clinton's anti-gun agenda. Many gun owners boycotted them, some still aren't willing to forgive the sins of past management.

If you buy a S&W AR15, they have a deal were you can add on a Sigma for $99.

--wally.

Srigs
November 23, 2007, 12:56 AM
My 40VE is 100% reliable with 4000+ rounds down range and is my night stand gun. Buy it.

MachIVshooter
November 23, 2007, 11:39 PM
I had a 40VE. It was reliable, but totally unspectacular. Not very accurate, only acceptably comfortable, nearly as ugly as a Glock. But id worked. I sold it for $200 and really never missed it. $220 new is a good price, but you could pick up a police trade-in 5906 or 4006 for $300 and have a much more robust pistol. Just my $0.02.

plateshooter
November 24, 2007, 02:40 PM
I have a bunch of 9mm handguns from Walther, CZ, Ruger, Keltec and S&W. My favorite carry gun is my 9VE. I have a 9mm M&P, and for me, the trigger pull is too light for a CCW gun with no safety (just my opinion). The Sigma trigger is perfect for what I want if for. Like shooting a double action revolver. I can keep my shots on the steel out to 25 yds and that's good enough for me with a ccw gun. Now, with the rebate, you have $289.00 for the gun less the $50.00 cash rebate, minus the cost of the 2 mags that come with the rebate $60.00 which gets you a 17 round 9mm handgun with a great warranty for $179.00. Gee, I think I might go for one in 40 cal for that price myself.

NeveraVictimAgain
December 4, 2007, 04:13 AM
I have one of the third gen Sigmas. The easiest way to spot a third gen is the accessory rail. I asked about them at smith-wessonforum.com and this is what I was told were the changes made:

-S&W added the equipment rail to strengthen the frame to prevent the dust cover from cracking.
-Redesigned striker assembly from the loose tolerance chisel tip striker to a round striker system with all parts machined within .002"
-Redesigned trigger assembly to correct the light primer strike issues. This resulted in about 2 pounds being added to the trigger pull weight.
-Addition of the "M*******" loaded chamber indicator, rounded top corners of the slide, checkering moulded into the sides of the grip and the lowering of the ejection port to correct the ejection problems in the 1st and 2nd Gens.

Most people on that board report their Sigmas have been completely reliable. Some can shoot 3" or 2" groups with one. One guy claims 1" groups.

I don't find the trigger on mine to be bad at all. It's a DAO gun and feels like one but I've had guns with longer, harder trigger pulls. Some say it is better than a Glock.

JaxNovice
December 4, 2007, 09:09 AM
If it is reliable who cares how accurate it is? As a truck gun the maximum you are going to be firing is what... 6 feet? I am fairly sure you can hit center mass at 6 feet with the Sigma.

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