Which steel .380?


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KelTecian
November 19, 2007, 12:43 PM
I've think i've got it narrowed down...which is the best steel .380? and why?
Show me some pictures of your steel beauties...Thanks!

CZ83
http://www.cz-usa.com/data/productimg/main040.png


Walther PPK/S
http://www.waltheramerica.com/wcsstore/Walther/upload/images/firearms/VAH38001.jpg


Sig P232
http://www.sigsauer.com/images/catalog/product/232left.jpg

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ZeSpectre
November 19, 2007, 12:55 PM
Gosh I wish my CZ-82 was that pretty <sigh>.

PPGMD
November 19, 2007, 12:57 PM
I haven't fired the CZ yet, but I think the Sig 232 is a better gun then the PPK. Much better double action trigger.

jdc1244
November 19, 2007, 01:00 PM
I’m not going to say it is best but I do own an 83. It’s been completely reliable to the extent it is my carry gun and trust it accordingly. I can highly recommend it.

usp9
November 19, 2007, 01:01 PM
Sphinx AT-380 may be the best of the steel guns.
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e306/NY_Dan/at380.gif

The best one made however is the Beretta 84/85, with a alloy frame

Gunner4h1r3
November 19, 2007, 01:01 PM
I would pick the Sig.

The Walther I've shot wasn't too pleasant. The Sig was more comfortable and easier to shoot.

Never shot the CZ, but I'm sure it is good from what I hear.

Spyvie
November 19, 2007, 01:18 PM
I picked up this SW PPK .380 with after market grips (Houge, I think) a couple of weeks ago used and dirty for $325. It looked like it had just been to the range, rode hard and put up wet.

I had been looking for a PPK, no one had them in stock around Denver, just the PPK/S, and those were going for over $500... So I took this little guy home and gave him the love he deserves. After a thorough cleaning the pistol does not look terribly used or abused and so far has functioned perfectly.

After paying a little too much for WWB at Wallyworld ($21 for 100 rnds), I found another 100 rounds of 12 year old WWB in my storage shed. All of this crappy ammo worked perfectly. The same shop I bought it in, Green Mountain Guns in Lakewood, has .380 Ranger SXT 95GR. For $28 a box of 50, or I can get Corbon 90GR. For $18 a box of 20. One mag of each of these premium rounds were tested with excellent results.

Pistol came with original box, stupid lock, instructions and two mags

I'm pretty happy with my purchase.

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j260/spyvie/DSCN0999.jpg

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j260/spyvie/DSCN1012.jpg


Sorry about the blurry pics, I'm still experimenting with my ringlight.

KelTecian
November 19, 2007, 01:22 PM
nice gun...I like the PPK better with wooden grips and a mag that doesnt have a plastic extention hanging down...the flat bottom mags make the pistol look 100% better IMHO

Iggy
November 19, 2007, 01:23 PM
Colt model 1908;)

XDKingslayer
November 19, 2007, 01:47 PM
Any reason the Bersa was left out?

keyboard commando
November 19, 2007, 01:57 PM
:scrutiny:http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q274/pistola_photo/Musatng2.jpg;)

Spyvie
November 19, 2007, 02:04 PM
"Nice gun...I like the PPK better with wooden grips and a mag that doesnt have a plastic extention hanging down...the flat bottom mags make the pistol look 100% better IMHO" -KelTecian

Not only does it look nicer, but I greatly prefer wrapping my pinky under the grip. The little plastic extension always feels to me like its gunna break off or dislodge the mag.

Spyvie
November 19, 2007, 02:06 PM
Very nice gun KC, how does it shoot?

hotwheelz
November 19, 2007, 02:06 PM
keyboard commando has it right I have my colt mk Iv series 80 Mustang plus II in my pocket right now it goes everywhere with me " DONT LEAVE HOME WITHOUT IT":)

hexidismal
November 19, 2007, 02:16 PM
Any reason the Bersa was left out?
The Bersa Thunder .380 isn't steel. It has an aluminum alloy frame.
--
I'd have to put in another vote for the colt mustang "pocket" .380 guns. I don't own one but I have tried them, and I continue to want one very badly..
--
Spyvie: Finger on the trigger and looking down the barrel of a clearly loaded gun !?... welcome to THR, but very bad form. Please review the 4 rules.

GunTech
November 19, 2007, 02:17 PM
Of the 3, I'd take the Sig. The Walther has a heavy trigger and too many sharp edges for routine carry.

But I'd vote the Mustang as well. With guns like the Kahr, there's no reason to carry a large 380 when you can get a 9mm that's the same size. The locked breech 380 colt is the size of many 25 and 32 ACP pistols, with a lot more bang.

Spyvie
November 19, 2007, 02:32 PM
"Spyvie: Finger on the trigger and looking down the barrel of a clearly loaded gun !?... welcome to THR, but very bad form. Please review the 4 rules." -hexidismal


Sorry if that image was offensive, I've removed it.

It was taken in a mirror, the gun was pointed at no one.

Lonestar49
November 19, 2007, 02:43 PM
...

Just make sure which ever you wide up choosing, it as a side-frame, mag release, as opposed the the bottom, thumb-mag release.

The side release pops out the mags fast and straight, same for going back in, whereas, the bottom thumb-release mags do no pop out, you have to pull them out, and insert them slightly off center first before they will go straight up and in.

Worst part of the thumb-mag release is if you have a jam and need to cycle the slide to clear out the jammed bullet, it will take some faience to get the thumb-release pushed, and at the same time, pulling hard to get the mag to come down just a tad, in order for you to cycle the slide.


Ls

Ol` Joe
November 19, 2007, 02:47 PM
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d149/1Savage/DSC00429.jpg

kd7nqb
November 19, 2007, 03:05 PM
Ok so I might be wrong on this one. My father has an Astra A-60 which he hates because he "Is not a semi auto guy". I however love this pistol and shoot it whenever I get the chance. Nice trigger, reliable, all around great gun.

But for the life of me I dont know if its steel. I know that sounds dumb but thats it.

For the record I know that the Kel-Tec P3AT is NOT steel. LOL

10-Ring
November 19, 2007, 04:54 PM
From your choices, I prefer the looks of the Walther but the functioning of the SIG, so I picked the SIG

Bill B.
November 19, 2007, 04:56 PM
Sig 230 is hard to beat!

romma
November 19, 2007, 05:06 PM
The Sig 232 looks awesome! However I own the PPK/S

Spyvie
November 19, 2007, 05:07 PM
Comparison test of the Sig and the Walther, from American Handgunner, Sep. 2000 issue.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BTT/is_148_24/ai_64565405

"The SIG P-232 and the Walther PPK sit at the apex of the .380 hierarchy. While the SIG is clearly the more modern of the two, any advantages that might be inferred from a review of its salient features tend to lose significance in a side by side shooting comparison with the PPK. Both pistols are completely competent in their assigned roles." -Mike Cumpston

Ala Dan
November 19, 2007, 05:24 PM
SIG P232

But, I like the looks of Mr. Savage's Seecamp~! ;) :D

denfoote
November 19, 2007, 05:26 PM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v22/denfoote/NewPPKGrips001small.jpg

I've had this for years.

It sits next to me in my computer desk drawer.

HisSoldier
November 19, 2007, 06:14 PM
"The Walther has a heavy trigger"
My PPK/S has the best SA trigger (by measurement) of any of my 12 .380's, you must have been referring to the DA trigger? The Walther is also my most accurate .380, the list includes KT, Colts, Llama, Stars, Guardian, Makarov(.380) and many I can't recall now. Also the mag release is where it should be. I can think of things to not like in the Walther but not the trigger.

SeanMTX
November 19, 2007, 06:28 PM
I don't think the Sig is nearly as pretty as the CZ or the Walther (especially the CZ...yeeow)

I haven't shot any of the above, so I'm definitely no .380 expert, but I love the Beretta 85F I've got....although the recoil is a fair amount larger than what I expected.

bannockburn
November 19, 2007, 10:13 PM
My favorite .380 for size, fit and finish, and reliability. It's pretty much my go anywhere gun.
http://http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc231/buckeroobanzai/DSC02409.jpghttp://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc231/buckeroobanzai/DSC02409.jpghttp://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc231/buckeroobanzai/DSC02409.jpgv

DAdams
November 19, 2007, 10:31 PM
SIG P232

But, I like the looks of Mr. Savage's Seecamp~!
__________________


Ditto Dan

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v237/dmadams/PB010016.jpg

Maybe even a Rohrbaugh R9,,but I fall off the tracks.

rde
November 19, 2007, 11:01 PM
No picture and not quite all steel...but..my choice is the Browning BDA.

mnw42
November 19, 2007, 11:12 PM
My vote is for the original .380, the Colt Model 1903/8

Mine is from 1923 and a fine example of early 20th century craftsmanship. The hammer is a color case hardened and you never see it!

http://images.filecloud.com/596150/1908-rh-med.jpg

Anna's Dad
November 19, 2007, 11:37 PM
There's nothing purtier than a stainless 232--especially with nice wood grips!

HisSoldier
November 19, 2007, 11:44 PM
PPK/S with Herrett cocobolo grips, took some fitting to get right, and a relief cut by the mag release to get quick access to release buttonhttp://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=67619&d=1195530225.

12Bravo20
November 19, 2007, 11:45 PM
Out of the choices, I would go with the CZ. I have a Llama IIIA and love it and would like to get a Colt or Star .380 (Star made slides for Colt .380's).
http://www.kilroy-was-here.org/Llama%20.380.jpg

Rex B
November 19, 2007, 11:46 PM
Lately I've become intrigued with pint-sized 1911s.
That started with my accidental discovery of a mint 1946 Llama .380 at Cabelas.
This thing is an almost perfect copy of a 1911A1.
So I found a 2nd one here:

http://www.auctionarms.com/Closed/DisplayItem.cfm?ItemNum=8332322.0

Waiting for it to come in. It's identical to the first one but it's "shooter" grade.

Next I'll be looking for a Colt Government .380.

Okiecruffler
November 20, 2007, 12:59 AM
Once upon a time I became obsessed with the 380's, ended up with 13 flavors hanging around. The nicest by far was my Sphinx AT380. Fit and finish were just scary good. It didn't care what you fed it, went bang everytime. Trigger pull was incrediably smooth. Mom's toting it around now, I've tried several times to trade her somethng else for it, but so far, no go.

Guitargod1985
November 20, 2007, 01:09 AM
I'd go with the Sig P232. I just picked one up (stainless, Hogue grips, night sights) last week and test fired it yesterday. It's my newest addition to the carry guns. 150 rounds without a failure of any kind. Its single stack design gives it an exceptionally thin grip, which suits my frame and my carry method rather nicely. In addition, because the recoil spring slips directly over the barrel, you can get away with a full size grip on a shorter pistol - not that that's uniquely P232, just different from most other autos. I like the fact that it is so easily concealable and still manages to have a decent size grip and a barrel longer than three inches. Next time I take it shooting, I'll have a range report.

MachIVshooter
November 20, 2007, 02:04 AM
Other:

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n117/Hunter2506/Remingtonmodel51.jpg

Won't find them new (not by a long shot), but the Remington model 51 is probably one of the best feeling pistols I've ever handled.

bannockburn
November 20, 2007, 12:11 PM
I would most definitely second that; the Remington Model 51 has one of the finest, most ergonomic grip shapes ever designed. I remember reading somewhere that John Pedersen, the gun's designer, spent nearly four years working on the Model 51, with the grip shape taking six months time alone, before he was satisfied with every aspect of it. It was interesting that he designed it around the .380 cartridge first; a .32 version followed two years later. With most other American manufacturers, it was the other way around.
Production of the .380 model easily surpassed the .32, with some 53,000 being built, compared to 22,000 for the .32.

KevininPa
November 20, 2007, 03:26 PM
I have a 232 and a CZ83 and it's a tough call. Both very accurate with smooth triggers. But I went with the Sig because sometimes the CZ is a little thick in the grip due to its double stack mag. I carry that in cooler seasons and the Sig in the warmer. Especially due to the stainless. It's in a High Noon Tuckable next to my skin under a tucked t-shirt. And no one is the wiser.

Glockamania®
November 20, 2007, 03:45 PM
What about a .380 Beretta?

usp9
November 20, 2007, 06:13 PM
What about a .380 Beretta?

I agree, it's the best .380 made, but it has an alloy frame.

Ratshooter
November 20, 2007, 06:29 PM
I'm surprised no one mentioned the Astra Constable. I bought one for $250.00 and its a keeper. The finish isn't perfect, it has a small amount of freckling on the right side of the slide. I prefer it the the Walther simply because it has a slide release. I have a PP in .32 and the trigger on the Astra is much smoother and lighter.

Glockamania®
November 20, 2007, 06:34 PM
The reason why I mentioned the .380 Beretta is because my range has one for rental. And usually, the guns in their inventory are the most popular brand and have gone through the endurance test.

Homeseller
November 20, 2007, 06:37 PM
I can't believe that no one has mentioned the Makarov in .380!

Talk about reliable, accurate and easy to strip!

No, I don't own one, but I do have and carry a 9x18 Mak, when dress won't allow a full size 1911.

:)

Odd Job
November 20, 2007, 06:43 PM
Deleted.

HisSoldier
November 20, 2007, 10:05 PM
That Makarov is a nice design, too heavy and big for a .380 in my opinion. (Mine is a .380) The Star S model is nice, link locked barrel, also a bit large for a .380. The Llama .380 is just a 1911 that my wife left in my coat pocket when she washed it, the thing shrunk! I want to say, I really like that Llama, have two of them. Quality is not good, but the concept deserves another go by someone. Let's do it in stainless next time, and without the silly raised ventilated rib.

Rex B
November 21, 2007, 12:49 PM
To HisSoldier.

I am curious what model Llama you have. Is it like the one pictured above - No rib, all steel, just like a 1911A1 except for the extractor (and the size)?

If so, what quality issues have you run into?

craig_o
November 21, 2007, 01:54 PM
delete me

Nytelyte
November 21, 2007, 03:10 PM
I made my choice Sunday....

Beautiful, shoots great. Less pokey & better trigger than the PPK, & CZs are sorta uncommon around here...

That and I only paid $430 for it NIB. :D

HisSoldier
November 21, 2007, 04:07 PM
Rex B,
I have a Llama "Especial" which has the stupid rib, see photo below. The other one is on it's way and is a later version with plastic thumb shelf grips. (What liberal moron decided a thumb shelf made a handgun a "sporting" model, and worthy of importation?) The one in the picture was made in 1966, has wood grips, and to list the poor quality aspects will take a while. The barrel lower lugs were .020" too high, so the link took all the lockup pressure. The barrel bushing has .010" slop on the outside where it slips into the slide and .020" slop around the barrel! I welded up and remilled the lower lugs. The hammer and tang both had hand finished off kilter edges, very noticeable. I've worked them over too. It shoots 100% now, but I still have to make a new bushing, and it may be too tight after I do. This gun, though it looks nice in the photo, looked like it was made in Pakistan when I took it apart! I've used it as my gunsmithing project, heh heh. I wish I could find one like yours. That's nice!
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=67707&d=1195675664

Rex B
November 21, 2007, 04:43 PM
Ah, OK, that makes sense. I had heard that the ones with the rib were not as well made as the earlier non-ribbed versions.
By the way, I saw some grips on ebay that were wood grips, conventional straight sides, and were advertised as fitting the MicroMax and other small-frame Llamas. If I had one with those thumbrest plastic grips, the grips would be gone immediately if I had to wrap electrical tape around the frame!
I'd also be tempted to mill that rib off.

If you think the above Llama looks nice, you should see the one I bought at Cabelas. It's a new gun. took me several months to find another, but now I'll be buying them as they come along.

ak-kev
November 21, 2007, 08:04 PM
Im sorry, I have to vote Colt Mustang too. Im still on my honeymoon with mine. Its great!!

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p266/james807/100_3610.jpg

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p266/james807/100_3607.jpg

denfoote
November 21, 2007, 08:29 PM
Gott im Himmel!!! :eek:

A Sig!!! :what:

We're all doomed I tell ya!!! :D

We're all doomed!!!! :D:D

HisSoldier
November 21, 2007, 08:32 PM
AK-Kev, On your honeymoon with yours? What state lets you marry your gun? What's this country coming to? (grin)

MICHAEL T
November 21, 2007, 08:57 PM
I own a PPK/S (Interarms ) Interarms would be my choice not a S&W. Bersa CC 380 would be even a better choice See thread on BersaCC

mustang is nice I have one but cost as much as a a good 45

Pilot
November 22, 2007, 12:56 PM
I love my Beretta M85 FS .380. Slim, accurate, reliable and high quality, but I Believe its an alloy frame. I also like my Makarovs, but the Beretta is just more elegant.

Rex B
November 22, 2007, 11:48 PM
HisSoldier wrote: "It shoots 100% now, but I still have to make a new bushing, and it may be too tight after I do. "

I wonder if a Colt .380 bushing is close enough to work?

http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=85637983

MCgunner
November 23, 2007, 12:02 AM
I really don't see a purpose in a steel .380. If I was going to get one, I guess it'd be a PPK except that the Bersa is what I'd go for. I'm not sure it's not an alloy frame, but I'd get it before I did a Walther. Walther's Ss don't have a good rep for reliability, but just the fact that it's a Walther, I'd get it to play 007. :D

When it comes to CARRY, my P11 is a 13 shot 9mm that weighs much less and is more compact and easier to tote, more reliable and just as accurate or probably MORE accurate. Why carry a .380 when I have a 9 that's a lot easier to tote and more effective?

Yeah, I'd get a Bersa. They have a good rep and they're nice lookin' guns. They also fit my budget better than your choices.

KevininPa
November 23, 2007, 12:21 AM
The .380s that I own and carry have the features that I want in a semi auto. DA/SA, exposed hammer, slim, compact design. There are 9mms that are the same size but their locked breeches usually make them wider. They are also almost always DAO, such as Kahrs and your P11 McGunner. And I just don't care for DAOs. Now I'm ready to upgrade to a 9 with a Springfield EMP, but unfortunately my wallet isn't and probably won't be until I find that "Magic" deal. As for steel frames, well I also just prefer steel. In pistols as small as a 232, I just don't find it that heavy to carry. So for me personally, the caliber was chosen by the pistols.

JP from Phoenix
November 23, 2007, 12:31 AM
I'd love a little PPK those lil guns are super classy

HisSoldier
November 23, 2007, 11:47 AM
"It shoots 100% now, but I still have to make a new bushing, and it may be too tight after I do. "

Rex B said;
"I wonder if a Colt .380 bushing is close enough to work?"

I haven't tried that, I've got a series 80 Gov't .380, I'll see, thanks!

Ohen Cepel
November 23, 2007, 11:53 AM
I would say the SIG. However, just sold mine since it bit my hand A LOT!

I have the CZ and it's a close second if not first, especially if you buy the 9MAK version off the surplus market for $250 or so.

MachIVshooter
November 24, 2007, 12:30 AM
Ah, OK, that makes sense. I had heard that the ones with the rib were not as well made as the earlier non-ribbed versions.

I have an old IIIa (ribless) that I inherited from my grandfather. It's actually a really nice little gun. I also have a 2004 Micro max and, while it lacks the refinement and is blowback, it shoots fine and will handle anything I've put into it (including handloaded 102 gr. Gold Sabres that clock 1067 FPS/avg.)

KevininPa
November 24, 2007, 01:06 AM
...........what powder are you using? I'm just getting ready to start reloading for .380s and I've already purchased 100gr. FMJ .355 rounds. I'd like to reach 1000FPS with them out of a Sig 232 or a CZ83. I already purchased Bullseye, but I'm afraid that the max load will fall short of the mark.

MMMike
November 24, 2007, 02:03 AM
Another vote for the Colt. The PlusII gives you a little longer grip.:)http://www.freespaces.com/laliqueinformation/Dump/colt5.jpg

mec
November 24, 2007, 06:44 PM
I had good luck with the Imported Ppks and ppkses. Last year, I encountered two s&w ppks and both of them were non- functional. It seemed to be an extractor problem but I never did hear how the problems were resolved with the factory.

Mac Attack
November 24, 2007, 10:10 PM
Colt 1908 :)
or Colt Mustang Plus II

Rex B
November 27, 2007, 07:38 PM
HisSoldier, how'd that Colt bushing look?
This new Llama is a bit loose at the muzzle. I am going to swap my two guns' parts around to get the best combination on the carry gun. But if there's a tighter option I'd like to know about it.

HisSoldier
November 27, 2007, 08:54 PM
Rex B,
The Colt Gov't .380 bushing was at least as loose as the Llama bushing was. I planned on making a new one anyway. But thanks, if it would have worked that would have saved lots of time. How loose is yours? I have another Llama .380 coming, left Mass. today, if it's bushing is loose too maybe I'll make three of them up. The cylindrical OD of mine is .561, the hole it fits into in the slide is .579 (.018 slop) the ID is .478, while the OD of the barrel is .470, (.008 slop) total slop value is therefore .026. The bushing in my Colt series 80 .45 is a Wilson combat bushing and I made it a slight push fit on the OD, there is no play at all, and that's what I'll aim for in the new bushings. The barrel has to have a bit, I'll look at the book and see what it's supposed to be for a 1911 and make it the same.

cookekdjr
November 28, 2007, 12:05 AM
I love SIG p230/p232's, but too many people on Sigforum complain of jams in their Stainless steel p232's.
I'd pick the CZ383 instead...
-David

Rex B
November 28, 2007, 12:54 AM
HisSoldier - I measured both my guns.
Neither gun has the blue worn off where bushing slides on barrel tip

The first, made 1946, appears unfired
Barrel OK .471
Bushing ID.473
Bushing OD .563
Slide ID .583
Total .022"

2nd gun, 1942 lightly used
Barrel OD .460
Bushing ID .471
Bushing OD .569
Slide ID .569
TOTAL .064 !!

I may rummage through the parts boxes at Lee Gun Parts in search of another bushing.

HisSoldier
November 28, 2007, 11:29 AM
Wow, I guess we hijacked this thread. That's outrageous tolerance differences between the three guns! Every one could use a custom fitted bushing. I guess that's why folks say Llama's are junk. I'm fond of the little 1911's though and enjoy amateur gunsmithing. If someone wanted to put a new gun on the market that would sell I don't think making this one over in stainless with good materials and tolerances would be be a loser, but it would cost as much as a Colt.

Nytelyte
December 3, 2007, 11:26 AM
I love SIG p230/p232's, but too many people on Sigforum complain of jams in their Stainless steel p232's.
I'd pick the CZ383 instead...
-David

Mine's been flawless with ~500 rnds.... :D And that includes HPs (gold dots)

RichardB
December 6, 2007, 09:03 AM
Your list is rather small. My nominee is the NAA Guardian, a very substantial piece of engineering in steel that has always gone Bang when requested. :)

http://www.naaminis.com/380.html

Rex B
December 6, 2007, 10:35 AM
HisSoldier wrote: "Wow, I guess we hijacked this thread. That's outrageous tolerance differences between the three guns! Every one could use a custom fitted bushing. I guess that's why folks say Llama's are junk. I'm fond of the little 1911's though and enjoy amateur gunsmithing. If someone wanted to put a new gun on the market that would sell I don't think making this one over in stainless with good materials and tolerances would be be a loser, but it would cost as much as a Colt."

I am the same way, I like these little guns and like to tinker. I had to fit a later thumb safety to mine, but I think I've figured out how to modify it to match the original style. I may pick up another to experiment on as this one works very well after fitting it.
I've found a source of parts for these, so I'll pick through his bushings next chance I get. I may also look at Colt .380 bushings, although they don't appear to be available in different sizes like the 1911 bushings. I do wonder about building up the inisde with weld and machining it back down.
As bad as that barrel fit is, the rest of the gun appears to be well fitted. I have had the most recent gun completely apart and then back together. Everything fit as well or better than my Sistemas. Trigger could be better, but it's not bad. And you have to remember, these were built during wartime, so that barrel fit may have reflected reliability as a first priority.

As for similar guns, the closest thing I have found is the Colt Government .380. Those run about $600 used, and are not as exact a scaled-down 1911 as the Llamas are. Undoubtedly better guns though, and I'll likely buy one.

HisSoldier
December 6, 2007, 11:33 AM
Well, I've got problems, it seems that I can't stop buying .380's! My wife has pretty well put her foot down though. I got my second Llama .380 yesterday, the bushing/barrel fit isn't nearly as bad but the barrels lower lugs are very loose side to side in the link area. The link and vertical lockup via the lower lugs is very nice. The grip safety has a huge amount of play side to side, about .025" slop at the safety pin slot area. I'm coming to the conclusion that if one had 20 of these Llama's one could disassemble them and reassemble one pretty tight gun! It's really a shame because the concept of a smaller 1911 is pretty cool. Stars on the other hand seem to be considerably better made. That last Llama trigger breaks at 6 lbs 2 oz, not nearly as bad as the first.

rantingredneck
December 6, 2007, 11:38 AM
Your list is rather small. My nominee is the NAA Guardian, a very substantial piece of engineering in steel that has always gone Bang when requested.

Yeah, what he said :)

http://www.rantingredneck.com/evolution/media/Guardian%20twins/DSC00135.JPG

One .380 and one .32NAA (.32/380 bottleneck)

Rex B
December 6, 2007, 11:54 AM
HisSoldier wrote: "Well, I've got problems, it seems that I can't stop buying .380's! My wife has pretty well put her foot down though. I got my second Llama .380 yesterday"

So what type was it, early unribbed, later ribbed??

We will require a photo, of course.

Rex B
December 6, 2007, 11:58 AM
Those NAA Guardians are on my radar too.
I declined a good trade for one last year, shoulda took it.

I looked at a .32 ACP version at a store this week, used for $279.95
Seemed a bit high to me.

HisSoldier
December 6, 2007, 03:55 PM
I have a Guardian, without sights. Wish it had sights:( Also, since it is DAO I tend to favor the Colt's or Llama's.


The Llama has a rib, but this is a later variation with loaded chamber indicator
Seen here the indicator says I have a snap cap in the chamber, well, it's loaded at any rate, so best not assume it's a snap cap.:)http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=68617&d=1196970916

PakWaan
December 6, 2007, 05:04 PM
I LOVE my Sig P232. Besides being thin and accurate, it's a DAMN good looking pistol! :)

Phantom Captain
December 6, 2007, 09:21 PM
Broke down and bought myself a christmas present today.

Have wanted one for a long time and finally just decided to do it. Bought a S&W stainless PPK/s today! :D

I am going to order some of those cocobolo checkered grips too. Mostly I've shot nothing but black powder lately but decided I just NEEDED something new! :D

UnTainted
December 6, 2007, 11:02 PM
P232sl rocks:

http://i12.tinypic.com/4m7anh2.jpg

HisSoldier
December 6, 2007, 11:05 PM
Phantom,
I bought my gorgeous PPK/S the checkered cocoblo grips on ebay, but I don't know if there are any more. I emailed Herrett (Who made them) before I found the ebay ad and asked him for some, he said he didn't and just made a bunch up for someone in Florida, who is probably who I bought mine from. You might google Herrett and ask, as that's what may prime the pump. I love those grips! And they really set off that S&W PPK/S.
http://www.herrett-stocks.com/

BlazingAngel01
December 6, 2007, 11:23 PM
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s206/CSS10523/PPKS.jpg

it does the job very well

Phantom Captain
December 6, 2007, 11:25 PM
Thanks HisSoldier,

I just got on ebay and found them in about two seconds! They are now ordered and on the way! I was looking at grips for awhile before even buying the pistol knowing that I wanted to change them if I bought it. Looking at the picture of yours was exactly what I wanted and I totally agree with you that they really set off the stainless PPK/S really nicely.

:)

HisSoldier
December 6, 2007, 11:42 PM
Phantom, I had to do some fitting, just a bit. I found that the grips didn't allow fast and easy access to the mag release, so I made a recess. Also, they made a pretty obvious gap at the top, I had to take a file and cut the top of the wood shoulder inside the back of the grips to get them higher, then epoxy tiny strips of wood to the opposing side to limit play. Well worth the slight effort. :)

Mad Magyar
December 7, 2007, 10:22 AM
I don't own or have handled many that have been mentioned..But, I'm extremely satisfied with the way this handles & fires...Did a little sanding on the sharp rear edges & tang; but that was it...
Don't go to Wally World w/o it....:D
http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q148/veritas2369/PPKauto.jpg

tydephan
December 7, 2007, 10:27 AM
I'm partial to my P232:

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k40/tydephan/Sig_232_on_vest_1_640.jpg

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k40/tydephan/232CloseUp640.jpg

Geno
December 7, 2007, 10:38 AM
Mad:

That picture makes me miss my Walther PPK/S. :( That was a nice pistol.

Doc2005

chief
January 10, 2008, 04:10 AM
I have a Colt Gov't .380 that has a really good trigger and shoots as well as any .380 in it's size range. The CZ 83 is on the huge side for .380's but has a double and single action trigger that is hard to beat, good sights and a hand filling grip. All this said, I carry my evil hand-biting PPK; it is small, durable, and a proven design almost on the scale of the 1911.

Mulliganpaintdee
January 10, 2008, 11:43 AM
the only experience I had with a .380 is a Bersa, but looks wise I really like the Browning BDA .380
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j240/labluegal2/083-051-153392.jpg

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