.45 throws brass in my face


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fatelk
November 19, 2007, 09:09 PM
OK, there has to be a simple explanation for this problem, but it's been bugging me as long as I've owned this thing (years), and as a result I don't like to shoot it.

I have a Colt MK IV series 80 Government Model .45 ACP. Two or three shots out of every magazine, the empty brass thumps me right in the forehead. OUCH!!:cuss:

I've tried changing the spring, as suggested by one "Gunshop Expert", to no avail.
Is a different extractor in order? I wondered if that could make a difference. This is a nice pistol, but is pretty much unuseable as it is. I'm hoping someone out there has seen this before and has a quick, easy fix.

Thanks for any input.

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average_shooter
November 19, 2007, 09:27 PM
I'll take a guess that Tuner or someone else will be along momentarily to post simply "extractor."

:neener:

Harley Quinn
November 19, 2007, 11:17 PM
Why not ejector, or is it the extractor is connected to the ejector mode and both need to be checked out:uhoh:

Could be you are simply relaxing and it is hitting you, for a limp wrist :confused:Many wear the glasses and baseball cap because of this reason with Beretta's.
Now I am confusing myself are you left or right handed;)

bensdad
November 19, 2007, 11:25 PM
I've never seen you shoot. All I know is, my 1911 used to spit cases into my forehead also. My "trainer" (a friend at the range with a great deal more experience than I had) told me to hold the gun more firmly. Now they fly high and to the right.

fatelk
November 20, 2007, 01:13 AM
Definitely not a weak grip. I've fired a couple thousand rounds through my Ballester Molina .45 with no issues, as well as thousands more through my .44 mags. My newest model 29 with the 3" barrel is not real fun to shoot with full-power loads, and I am used to a very firm grip to say the least.

rcmodel
November 20, 2007, 12:28 PM
A very firm grip has nothing at all to do with whether or not you are letting your wrest break & the muzzle flip up every so often.

About the only way a 1911 can throw brass straight back at you is if the muzzle is pointing skyward when the case ejects.

Concentrate on keeping your wrest locked, and let your whole arm absorb the recoil. The gun should stay pointed relatively straight at the general area of the target at all times. Your whole arm and gun should rise slightly during recoil.

If your arm stays down and the muzzle comes up, you will get hit in the face with the brass.

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j219/rcmodel/KTOG/1224.gif
rcmodel

fatelk
November 20, 2007, 12:50 PM
I still don't understand why I get hit in the face when shooting this gun, but not by any of the other Government model .45s I've shot. It is something specific to this pistol, and it frustrates me to the point that I just want to get rid of it if I can't figure out how to fix it.

rcmodel
November 20, 2007, 01:03 PM
Dup post - server hanging up for 5 minutes.

rcmodel
November 20, 2007, 01:05 PM
*Make sure the ejector is tight in the frame.
*Make sure one of the two legs isn't broken off, allowing it to rotate in the frame.

*Try changing recoil springs.
*Try changing the extractor tension slightly.
*Try swapping out extractors with another 1911 that doesn't hit you in the face.
*Try a Wilson Shock-Buff in the gun.
*Try changing/stoning the angle on the face of the ejector slightly.

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j219/rcmodel/KTOG/1224.gif
rcmodel

gravis86
November 20, 2007, 01:59 PM
as well as thousands more through my .44 mags
So your .44 Mag never ejects in your face? Neither does mine...:neener:

But seriously, sounds like an ejector problem to me.

1911Tuner
November 20, 2007, 02:15 PM
zebra zebra zebra HORSE zebra zebra zebra

Ya'll are huntin' zebras and didn't see that big ol' quarter horse.


About the only way a 1911 can throw brass straight back at you is if the muzzle is pointing skyward when the case ejects.

Oh yeah it can. The case is ejecting at 3 O'Clock...striking the port wall...bouncing up into the path of the slide...and being knocked straight back. Look for the brass tracks around the port. They're there.

The extractor is releasing the case too early, or it's keeping the case from twisting out of its grasp and kicking it straight out. The first horse to check is extractor tension. Increase it.

The next thing to check is the extractor hook itself. If the hook is too short from the rim's tensioning wall to the tip of the hook...it releases too early.
The depth should be .036 inch +/- .002 and no more. If it's short, replace it. If it's too long...dress it to within those dimensions. be careful to keep it straight.

Look at the claw. If it's square, swipe the bottom corner on a stone to radius it a little. Then, break the top corner on a 45 degree angle.
Check to make sure the hook is square to the breechface. If it's not...replace it.

Look at the nose of the ejector. If it's peened flat instead of having a dull point...there may be where the hare lies. This is assuming that it's a standard ejector. If somebody has installed an extended type, feel along the top for a burr. Dress as needed. Feel along the inside for a burr. Dress as needed.

Jim Watson
November 20, 2007, 02:21 PM
There was one gunsmith who said he kept three ejectors with different tip angles to try in guns. Whichever one ejected in the right direction, he matched on the one to be permanently installed.

Another said that the key point was the curve on the bottom of the extractor hook being right to let the empty roll out from under the extractor instead of abruptly snapping loose.

Maybe Tuner can tell you what to mess with first.


Oh, he already has. Good.

Harley Quinn
November 20, 2007, 06:09 PM
It was zebra zebra horse zebra mule
;)

Walkalong
November 20, 2007, 06:55 PM
This (http://www.brazoscustom.com/magart/ejection%20perfection.htm)may help.

fatelk
November 20, 2007, 08:56 PM
Thanks, all, especially Tuner and Walkalong. Looks like I have some tinkering to do now that I know where to start. I won't make it to the range until Sunday or Monday (some of us poor suckers have to work through the holidays) but I hope to try it then.

Also thank you rcmodel. Though I don't think grip is specifically the issue this time, I do appreciate any advice I can get on how to shoot better. I've sent a lot of lead downrange, but have had very little formal instruction on shooting. As a result, I'm an OK shot with lots of room for improvement.

This gun has been tinkered with before I got it. The extractor looks like it's been ground down or polished. I'll see what I can do, and hopefully learn something in the process.

1911Tuner
November 20, 2007, 10:38 PM
The extractor looks like it's been ground down or polished.

A clew! Methinks that it may have been polished a bit much...methinks.

Check the depth of the claw from the tip to the bottom of the tensioning wall. .036 inch is about what you want to see.

As an afterthought...Check to see if the extractor is clocking in its bore. Most will rotate a little if forced...but if it takes minimal effort, that's another bug that causes erratic ejection.

fatelk
November 26, 2007, 11:36 PM
Well, I went to the range today. I only got thumped in the head twice, out of 35 rounds, but the empty brass flew all around.

I attached a couple photos. I'm afraid I may need a new extractor, as this one's pretty ground down.

Harley Quinn
November 27, 2007, 08:23 PM
Did you do any thing to correct what was mentioned or just your wrist being stiffer:uhoh:
Cant read the attachments:confused:

JackOfAllTradesMasterAtNone
November 27, 2007, 09:14 PM
Extractors are cheap!


Funny, I go to the outdoor range and pick up what-ever spent .45 brass I can find. Oh, I've got coffee cans of different head stamps..

So often, I see dented brass. Dents in the middle, dented case mouths... I ponder how many people are putting up with getting popped in the face with their brass, or how many curse their pistol that stovepiped or doesn't eject properly.

Tuner lets us have it with both barrels. 'This is how it should be'!

A person that shares his expertise on a daily basis without reward.

Thank you Tuner.

-Steve

Bwana John
November 28, 2007, 10:43 AM
What really is irratating is when the hot brass gets stuck behind your shooting glasses. :what:

fatelk
November 28, 2007, 12:27 PM
Sorry, I couldn't get the photos to work earlier. I don't know what I was doing wrong.

I modified the extractor before my last range trip, as best I could, but I don't know if I did it right at all. The only other .45 I have is an old Ballestor Molina, which is a little different. And yes, I did pay more attention to keeping my wrist straight, though that didn't seem to make much difference as to where the brass went.

Harley Quinn
November 28, 2007, 07:34 PM
What really is irratating is when the hot brass gets stuck behind your shooting glasses.

Yes I had a few of those, shooting a Beretta 92:what: Burned a blister on my cheek right below my eye. Tender area since I wear sunglasses and the skin is nice and soft there, not like other locations that have been exposed to the sun for 65 years:o Should of had a billed cap on:uhoh:

fatelk
November 28, 2007, 08:34 PM
I carefully worked over the extractor a little more, and just got back from the range. I only shot four mags full, but not one hit me in the face, or anywhere for that matter.:)

I shot both the Colt and the Ballestor Molina today. To be honest, I still prefer the old Molina. The Colt jams occasionally on semi-wadcutters, the Molina eats anything, and is more accurate as well. I also prefer the narrow sights on the old gun.

1911Tuner
November 28, 2007, 08:43 PM
I carefully worked over the extractor a little more, and just got back from the range. I only shot four mags full, but not one hit me in the face, or anywhere for that matter.

Yep. Usually somethin' simple.

And now you know a few more things about extractors than you did. Cool, huh? ;)

fatelk
November 29, 2007, 12:45 AM
Thanks Tuner! Yes, I know a little more now. It took a couple trys and it's not real pretty, but at least it works. Now I just need to figure out how to make it feed semi-wadcutters; shouldn't be too hard.

1911Tuner
November 29, 2007, 06:41 AM
Now I just need to figure out how to make it feed semi-wadcutters; shouldn't be too hard.

Leave the (zebra) feed ramp alone. Start with the (horse) magazine and work from there. The 200-grain H&G #68 SWC is the less troublesome bullet to work with. My original, unaltered USGI pistols eat it for breakfast.

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