handgun suppressor


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jfanzen
November 19, 2007, 09:09 PM
I went into a handgun shop today and they sold gun suppressors! I had no idea and its a football field away from my house. They said you buy the suppressor plus 200 dollar fee and paspport photos and time for all that to go through and you have your suppressor.
Here is the question. I would need to get the barrel threaded for a suppressor right? i saw the hk guns with factory threaded barrel but it starts at 1000 and up. also the sig combat tb starts at 1200. I wanted to get a beretta cx4 handgun in 9mm... would a gunsmith here in town do that for me? how much does it cost to thread a barrel? What guns have adapters to them in 9mm or .45? thanks in advance fellas,, as you can see im clueless about the suppressor topic

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HisSoldier
November 19, 2007, 09:31 PM
I'm curious as to why you want it. I've thought about it too, probably in .22 so I can shoot target in the backyard without upsetting the neighbors, though I live out in the country. Then the next question is what kind of backstop to ensure nothing gets away downrange. I see handguns in GunBroker and GunsAmerica commonly with the barrel threaded already but that's not to say the can will fit the threads. Please report back on this as I find it fascinating. What kind of suppressor are you thinking of? Some require a liquid inside them to work well, as a coolant. Some have "wipes" that quickly wear out and must be replaced. Aluminum baffles can't take the heat of protracted firing they say. Are you going to use subsonic ammo? I saw a Thompson Center .22 with suppressor in Alaska once, now you may think I'm exaggerating but I'm not. The sound of the hammer hitting the firing pin, and the sound of the bullet hitting the water a few feet away, was much louder than the shot itself.

jfanzen
November 19, 2007, 09:44 PM
hmmm well i did not know all of that. I dont want to have it to use in the backyard or anything like that i live in the city. I just want to have a gun with a suppressor on it. Im young.. and a suppressor looks awfully awesome! It would be great to have. I am going to have to research what is the best suppressor to get.. I would only go to the desert and shoot it.. and i made a mistake its not a cx4 its a px4 beretta. Anyone know of any silencers for that particular model gun?

mikec
November 19, 2007, 09:58 PM
The $200 "fee" is actually a Federal Tax. Before you jump in, check to see what the state and local laws are.

You can get replacement barrels for many guns that are threaded. Some calibers are better then others with a suppressor. The Walther P22 and the various Ruger .22 semi autos are two of the more common guns that people put suppressors on. You can suppress 9x19s and larger calibers but they generally aren't as quiet as a .22.

Conqueror
November 19, 2007, 10:33 PM
Most modern 9mm cans can be shot dry, though ALL suppressors benefit from a few cc of water in the blast baffle.

Gemtech has a good explanation of suppressor legalities: http://www.gem-tech.com/legal.html

Spyvie
November 19, 2007, 10:40 PM
Dumb question about suppressors... does the added weight on the end of the barrel affect the operation of a recoil operated locking breech pistol?

Seems like it would

George Hill
November 19, 2007, 10:43 PM
"I'm curious as to why you want it."

Doesn't matter, now does it?

Zak Smith
November 19, 2007, 11:01 PM
Tilt-barrel semi-auto pistols (BHP, Glock, etc) need a Nielsen device, which decouples the suppressor from the barrel motion with a spring, to operate with most suppressors.

-z

Mtdew
November 20, 2007, 03:02 AM
IF you really want a supressor let me suggest you get a 22RF supressor first. They are cheap (relatively) and very quiet. The cheapest host pistol will be a P22 since it allready had a threaded barrel (you still need an adaptor but they are only $30)

I shoot my supressed 22rf hosts MUCH more than any other caliber. It's nice to shoot 500 rds supressed and only have spent $10

22rf is the only round that will be even close to "hollywood" quiet. Silencers in real life do not sound anything like they do in the movies. A good 9mm silencer will sound like a slightly quieter than a nailgun/paintball gun

If your dead set aganst 22RF then realistically you should only be looking at 9mm. Next to 22rf it's the easiest round to supress. Everyone that has never heard a supressed 45acp thinks it would be better ince it's inherently subsonic. However 45 is a very hard to supress round due to it's size, In fact there are NO (dry) hearing safe 45acp cans (yes im aware KAC averages safe but every shot is not)

The Sig tactical, Beretta 92fs, Glock 17, and the HK USP SD are the most popular 9mm hosts.



The prices you listed for the HK's and Sig's seem high.
a G17 with a LWD barrel should only set you back $650
The silencer + stamp will be close to $1000

if you want a 22rf can look to
Tactical Innovations
AAC
SWR
YHM
or Gemtech

there are really only two choices for 9mm cans
SWR Trident-9
AAC EVO-9
The HTG cycle-9 *seems* to be very good as well hovever it's not as versatile as the first two

The rest of the 9mm cans range from just ok to downright horrible.

If you really want one research them as much as possible first. Buy the best, not the best you can afford or the best the dealer has. There really is no re-sale value on used cans so you wil have it forever so BUY THE BEST.

HisSoldier
November 20, 2007, 09:49 AM
"I'm curious as to why you want it."

"Doesn't matter, now does it?"

It does to me because I've been trying to justify buying one myself for a long time. I don't work for the government if that's the rub.

Before the stupid law that restricted ownership of "silencers" they were used in urban areas for pest control, plinking etc. And that's my reason too, low sound impact in an urban area.

HisSoldier
November 20, 2007, 09:52 AM
MtDew, wouldn't a .380 be a good choice to suppress? Especially if one reloaded. Of course, if one reloaded a 9 X 19 would be better because the choice of power over low signature would always be there.

Mtdew
November 20, 2007, 01:40 PM
380 isn't bad, but 147grn 9mm works better (since it's heavier).

also most people use full size handguns with availible threaded barrels.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v695/jar944/USP_med.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v695/jar944/comp1.jpg

Lucky
November 20, 2007, 04:35 PM
That's very cool. But out of curiosity, what's the best gun/suppressor combination that combines compact size and decent firepower? The pictured ones are rather long, no? Is there anything in the western market that comes close to this http://world.guns.ru/handguns/hg154-e.htm ?

http://world.guns.ru/handguns/pb-1.jpp

Also I see Springfield has different slide lengths for the XD, could you put a 4" XD9 slide on with a 5" barrel, and attach a suppressor there? Or does it need a Neilson device?

Ratshooter
November 20, 2007, 05:01 PM
I used to have access to a full auto Mac 11 in 380 with a factory suppressor. It was very quiet. The owner has since passed away and i have no idea where the gun is. This gun had a rubber wiper at the end of the suppressor that the bullets would actually touch. It wasn't very accurate. With the sun at your back you could see the rounds going through the air. They went everywhere but at the bullseye.

I sort of lost my desire to have a silenced or full auto gun after shooting it. Shot an M-60 also. Don't want one of those either.

Mtdew
November 20, 2007, 05:17 PM
That's very cool. But out of curiosity, what's the best gun/suppressor combination that combines compact size and decent firepower? The pictured ones are rather long, no? Is there anything in the western market that comes close to this http://world.guns.ru/handguns/hg154-e.htm ?

The evo-9 on a G19 should be shorter than the 31cm (12.2") length of the one you posted.

Ratshooter
November 20, 2007, 05:18 PM
One other alternative. If you have a long barreled 22 rifle or access to one that will handle 22 shorts like a Marlin bolt or a Marlin 39 lever action try some CB 22s from CCI. They are almost silent and will give the impression of a suppressed gun without the expense. Don't use the Aquila Colibri loads they will not always make it out of a rifle barrel.

Here in texas it is not legal to hunt Squirrels with an air rifle. My father and i have both killed a ton of tree rats with CB 22s. A friend was going to show his brother in law how quiet they were and while walking to his place to shoot he fired a round into the ground. The BIL never noticed the gun going off. Thats pretty quiet.

Mtdew
November 20, 2007, 05:20 PM
I used to have access to a full auto Mac 11 in 380 with a factory suppressor. It was very quiet. The owner has since passed away and i have no idea where the gun is. This gun had a rubber wiper at the end of the suppressor that the bullets would actually touch. It wasn't very accurate. With the sun at your back you could see the rounds going through the air. They went everywhere but at the bullseye.

I sort of lost my desire to have a silenced or full auto gun after shooting it. Shot an M-60 also. Don't want one of those either.

wipes were old supressor technology, they died in the 80's

modern supressors have baffles that do not contact the bullet and can actually improve accuracy.

Ratshooter
November 20, 2007, 05:36 PM
I thought that there must be something better. I wish i would have thought to remove the suppressor and shoot it it that way. Then i would have been able to check for accuracy. Oh well, it was a one time opportunity. The gun was fun to shoot except for loading that damn 30 round mag. It took 2 or 3 minutes to load and about a second and a half to unload.

kingofwylietx
November 20, 2007, 05:46 PM
Suppressors certainly suppress the sound, but do not silence it. Most silencers will make a noise similar to an air rifle. It's not Hollywood silent, but it does allow you to shoot without disturbing the neighbors or needing ear muffs.
Where I live, in Texas, you have the $200 tax stamp, the suppressor, host weapon, and before all of that....you need someone to sign off on it for you. Chief of police works in my city, but I believe you can use the county Sheriff or a local judge as well.
That's just something else to consider, Good luck.

John Caile SDI
November 20, 2007, 06:21 PM
Basics on Suppressors:

Legal in some states (around 17 at last count).

Generally, the larger the caliber, the larger and more complex the suppressor that is required (there's a reason that assassins use .22s).

Types: baffles (with or without "packing") are the most common - bullet never makes contact with inside of suppressor. In suppressors with "wipes" (may be rubber or felt) the bullet actually makes contact with them. The wipes are sometimes soaked in oil (more maintenance required). Then there are those that are a combination of the two.

Quietest design? Probably baffle PLUS wipes design, but it also depends on the type of gun used. Closed breech guns that do NOT open on firing are quietest (note: many auto-loaders that use a Browning-style tilting barrel design that normally open on recoil will not open due to the weight of the suppressor; good for quietness, but requires manual racking of the slide after each shot. Straight blow-back designs like Sig or Walther 380's do not suffer from this). Note: a SUBSONIC round is virtually a requirement - forget the Stephen Seagal movies; if the bullet is faster than around 1090 fps there will be a sonic "crack" that defeats the purpose. Also, it is extremely difficult to design any suppressor that will work on revolvers - the flash gap will allow sufficient gas to escape to create a very loud report.

Threading: varies, with 1/2 X 28 (1/2 inch by 28 threads-per-inch) by far the most common, for both barrels and suppressors. Obviously, they must match!

Years ago, as a demonstration for some attorneys on the silliness of banning them, I once constructed a suppressor for a Ruger .22 pistol, for less than $6 in parts from a Home Depot and about an hours labor. It made less noise than a Daisy air rifle...

Stay safe!

Mtdew
November 20, 2007, 06:48 PM
Legal in some states (around 17 at last count).

actually many more than just 17

AL, AR, AK, AZ, CO, CT, FL, GA, ID, IN, KY, LA, ME, MD, MS, MT, NE, NV, NH, NM, NC, ND, OH, OK, OR, PA, SC, SD, TN, TX, UT, VA, WA, WV, WI, and WY

(note: many auto-loaders that use a Browning-style tilting barrel design that normally open on recoil will not open due to the weight of the suppressor;

Thats what the nielson device was invented for. Supressors now work fine on browning actions

Note: a SUBSONIC round is virtually a requirement
for maxium supression yes, however the sonic crack just sounds like a unsupressed 22Rf. It's still very quiet compared to unsupressed fire.

Ratshooter
November 20, 2007, 07:06 PM
John Caile,

What did you use? I've heard of PVC pipe and have seen one made from an oil filter. Also saw one made from a large size lawn mower muffler. Of coarse the plastic coke bottle has been mentioned.

HisSoldier
November 20, 2007, 08:54 PM
I've also read that sniping with a .50 BMG works much better with a suppressor than with a compensator, the comp makes a heck of a dust signature while the suppressor keeps it to a minimum. It's also said that even with supersonic rounds the suppressor makes sound location of the shooter much more difficult. The round makes it's own pressure wave that is linear, while the boom from the muzzle is from a fixed location.
I find the subject interesting enough, but haven't started saving up for a suppressor yet.

jfanzen
November 20, 2007, 09:24 PM
well say i buy a glock 17.. what would be the next step to get it fitted for a suppressor. besides buying the suppressor itself.. what modifications will i have to make to the gun and if anyone knows.. how much would it cost to the particular modification.. would i have to buy a new long barrel that is threaded? or could a gunsmith get the stock glock barrel and thread it for me?

Zak Smith
November 20, 2007, 09:53 PM
50BMG recoil with a suppressor is crushing.

CTPistol
November 20, 2007, 10:11 PM
I have a couple..

A Glock 17 and a Savage .22 rifle.

The Glock is a waste. Its just not very much fun. Between the pistol, barrel, can, and permits it was about $1200. It never gets used.

NOW - the .22 rifle with cheapo scope on it? Its a BLAST. Its a savage with can built aound the barrel. It looks stock. An air rifle is louder. Its a ton of fun for backyard/woods plinking. Get some subsonic ammo and its whisper quiet and dead accurate! - it was about $450, plus fees..

The pistol idea may seem cool, but it might wear off pretty quick.

Just some thoughts - have fun with it!

SilentArmy
November 20, 2007, 10:16 PM
The barrel needs to be longer than stock to be threaded. The best value in threaded barrels for a Glock is Lone wolf (about $100). Jarvis Sells them also for many different guns but they are WAY too proud of their product ($250)! Advanced armament makes threaded barrels that are tuned to operate with their suppressors.

Mtdew
November 20, 2007, 10:36 PM
50BMG recoil with a suppressor is crushing.

Though I haven't personally shot a supressed 50, people I know say it is not bad.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AC4YpXKco3A

Mtdew
November 20, 2007, 10:45 PM
well say i buy a glock 17.. what would be the next step to get it fitted for a suppressor. besides buying the suppressor itself.. what modifications will i have to make to the gun and if anyone knows.. how much would it cost to the particular modification.. would i have to buy a new long barrel that is threaded? or could a gunsmith get the stock glock barrel and thread it for me?

all you need is a boostered can (trident or Evo) and a threaded barrel. as silentarmy allready said LWD barrels are very good and inexpensive. The pic I posted earlier is my G17 w/ a LWD barrel.

The Glock is a waste. Its just not very much fun. Between the pistol, barrel, can, and permits it was about $1200. It never gets used.

why do you feel it's a waste and never use it? $1200 is cheap for a can, barrel, gun and stamp. My G17 + Trident is allmost as quiet as my P22 + can. I bought a USPSD just to supress (I love that gun) I personally hate shooting anything unsupressed now.

Though I do agree that 22rf is the most supression for your money

Conqueror
November 21, 2007, 04:11 PM
wipes were old supressor technology, they died in the 80's

modern supressors have baffles that do not contact the bullet and can actually improve accuracy.

Not entirely true. While wipes are indeed old technology, they actually work better than most modern baffles since they form a near-perfect seal through bullet contact. Knight's Armament makes some of the best cans in the world, and they still produce a couple models with wipes. If you don't mind the hassle of replacing the wipes every 30 rounds or so, they are among the quietest cans available. In fact they're coming out with a new HK .45 pistol can which combines baffles and wipes in a package small enough to holster, and is very quiet indeed.

Mtdew
November 21, 2007, 04:30 PM
Not entirely true. While wipes are indeed old technology, they actually work better than most modern baffles since they form a near-perfect seal through bullet contact. Knight's Armament makes some of the best cans in the world, and they still produce a couple models with wipes. If you don't mind the hassle of replacing the wipes every 30 rounds or so, they are among the quietest cans available. In fact they're coming out with a new HK .45 pistol can which combines baffles and wipes in a package small enough to holster, and is very quiet indeed.

Im aware of the new KAC can, It has one wipe at the end of the baffle stack.. Though it's more of a exception than rule in modern can design.

I was not aware of any other KAC production "wiped can" other than the one they had at the Silencer Shoot.

Zak Smith
November 21, 2007, 11:06 PM
Though I haven't personally shot a supressed 50, people I know say it is not bad.

I have. In fact, I have shot the exact same 50BMG rifle with and without a suppressor (in this case a JET). Recoil with the suppressor was dramatically more than with the brake.

MartinBrody
November 21, 2007, 11:26 PM
would a gunsmith here in town do that for me? how much does it cost to thread a barrel? What guns have adapters to them in 9mm or .45?

Probably not going to find a local gunsmith to help you with a CX4. The easiest way is to buy a threaded barrel for a pistol you want to suppress. The most common ones I can think of are Sig, Glock & H&K. Or Walther P22 is already threaded if you want a 22 can. They can be as cheap as around $100 for a Lone Wolf barrel for a Glock, my Sig's threaded barrel was a little over $200 for a Sig factory barrel. I have an AAC Evolution 9 suppressor, you can get different pistons so that it can be used with differently threaded 9mm pistol barrels. Here is a link to a vid of my Sig 266 & Evolution 9, the sound is roughly what you can expect, not Hollywood quiet as many have already said. After cleaning there is a little WD40 still left in the can which is contributing to the smoke you see.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_XCeOPvUfHQ

MartinBrody
November 21, 2007, 11:33 PM
well say i buy a glock 17.. what would be the next step to get it fitted for a suppressor.

I like this one...
http://www.lonewolfdist.com/Detail.aspx?PROD=4238

or a little cheaper...
http://www.lonewolfdist.com/Detail.aspx?PROD=4223

They just replace the factory barrel, nothing to do but drop it in when you field strip. You can just buy the barrels online and have it shipped to your door.

Leanwolf
November 21, 2007, 11:48 PM
A popular pistol on which to mount a suppressor, here in Idaho, is the Buckmark .22 LR pistol. I know several people who have them, including a good friend, and they really like them. They are very quiet. Others have suppressors on Ruger .22 pistols, but I've not shot them.

FWIW.

L.W.

Conqueror
November 22, 2007, 11:01 PM
I was not aware of any other KAC production "wiped can" other than the one they had at the Silencer Shoot.
Apparently they still sell some wiped "hush puppy" style 9mm cans, someone on ST just got one from them. Reed Knight said he hoped to get a new run of them finished sometime soon.

Mtdew
November 22, 2007, 11:41 PM
Ahhh I forgot about the XM-9.

I remember seeing the pics recently on ST. It was on a slide locked beretta IIRC.

Conqueror
November 22, 2007, 11:48 PM
Yup, that's the one. I'd love to have one if they did a run with 1/2x28 threads instead of beretta bilock mounts.

Ranb
November 25, 2007, 12:47 PM
I have made several silencers using ATF from 1's. Cost is about $20-$40 (+$200 tax) plus the cost of a lathe and other tools ($2000) that I use for other projects as well.

For my 9mm silencer, I made it as light as possible. Using an 8 pound recoil spring and 147 grain cast bullets loaded to 1050 fps makes it operate just fine without a booster.

http://img2.putfile.com/thumb/7/20217144257.jpg (http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=6068980)

Ranb

Roswell 1847
November 25, 2007, 06:32 PM
Is there anything in the western market that comes close to this http://world.guns.ru/handguns/hg154-e.htm ?


The gun in that link is a purpose built suppressed pistol with part of the Silencer can built into the slide. The removable portion is not the entire assembly.

The cans which fit over the exposed portion of the Ruger .22 auto pistol barrel also add less to overall length of the pistol.

BTW
Once saw some photos of a rare Colt Woodsman with factory silencer. It was a presentation model with lots of engraving and gold inlays. Beautiful pistol.

Also ran across an antique Winchester .22 pump rifle factory threaded for a silencer. Someone snapped it up while I was making up my mind. It was pretty well worn, the silencer was not included, probably long rusted out from corrosive .22 ammo of the era.
Like they said in the adverts, "Keep the foxes out of the henhouse without disturbing egg production".

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