Non NFA suppressor?


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Lightsped
November 20, 2007, 11:49 AM
A friend of mine was telling me that there is a .22lr "suppressor" on the market that doesn't require one to jump through all the Class 3 hoops.

He said the reason for this, is that this .22lr suppressor doesn't meet the db requirements of the NFA suppressors. Anotherwords, it isn't as quiet as the typical suppressor.

ANyone heard of such a thing?

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Conqueror
November 20, 2007, 12:03 PM
Your friend is lying or misinformed.

There is no set dB requirement for the NFA. A silencer is simply defined as a device to "reduce or muffle the sound of a gunshot." If it reduces the shot 1dB, the ATF can and will rule it a silencer.

OEF_VET
November 20, 2007, 12:05 PM
Your friend is wrong.

Any device which reduces the report of a shot is a suppressor, and is therefore an NFA weapon. There is no dB reduction qualifier.

From www.atf.gov's FAQ: (deals with paintball silencers, but you get the point - I've emboldened the important, relevant portion)

(M30) Are Paintball and/or Airgun Sound Suppressers NFA firearms?

The terms "firearm silencer" and "firearm muffler" mean any device for silencing, muffling, or diminishing the report of a portable firearm, including any combination of parts, designed or redesigned, and intended for use in assembling or fabricating a firearm silencer or firearm muffler, and any part intended only for use in such assembly or fabrication.

Numerous paintball and airgun silencers tested by ATF’s Firearms Technology Branch have been determined to be, by nature of their design and function, firearm silencers. Because silencers are NFA weapons, an individual wishing to manufacture or transfer such a silencer must receive prior approval from ATF and pay the required tax. See Questions M15 and 16 for application details.

OEF_VET
November 20, 2007, 12:07 PM
You're friend might be thinking of the fake suppressors several companies manufacture. They are not silencers / suppressors because they do nothing to reduce the sound, they just look like silencers. They're made for people who want to look cool, but can't, or won't buy a real can.

kenhtake
November 20, 2007, 12:15 PM
I've heard of a few people putting on long extension tubes on their .22's, similiar to the long (4 foot) tube that Tom Knapp sometimes uses on his shotgun, claiming that they just "contain" the noise. They claim these don't count as an NFA item...I suspect the ATF would disagree and I wouldn't recommend anyone tempt fate messing with these things.

VARifleman
November 20, 2007, 12:21 PM
bloop tubes are legal kenhtake, or every year at Camp Perry the ATF would be arresting 200-300 smallbore shooters. They also don't contain the noise, but send more of it downrange and change the pitch.

Zach S
November 20, 2007, 12:40 PM
There is no set dB requirement for the NFA. A silencer is simply defined as a device to "reduce or muffle the sound of a gunshot." If it reduces the shot 1dB, the ATF can and will rule it a silencer.
They did with the XM177 moderators that were cheap at gunshows before my time.

mpmarty
November 20, 2007, 12:43 PM
darnit there goes my liter pop bottle

Fosbery
November 20, 2007, 12:47 PM
The terms "firearm silencer" and "firearm muffler" mean any device for silencing, muffling, or diminishing the report of a portable firearm

Does that mean bolting your gun to a tripod set in concrete and making a silencer for it is legal?

kenhtake
November 20, 2007, 01:06 PM
Any examples of the ATF saying they are OK?

The tube that I've seen for the shotguns is intended purely for reducing the sound signature and doubt the ATF would approve of that. I suppose I will be meeting with an agent from the NFA branch in Jan and I can ask him for an opinion on the matter.

jlbraun
November 20, 2007, 01:07 PM
I think that some people shoot through foam-lined barrels. Because they're not portable, they're not silencers under the NFA.

SaMx
November 20, 2007, 03:36 PM
yeah, the portable thing means that if you make a big tube out of barrels or a series of tires, and line it with some sort of sound deadening material, and shoot through it.

I've heard of people doing things like that at home ranges. I don't know how effective they are, but I know it's legal because it's not attached to the gun and you can't move it around.

DoubleTapDrew
November 20, 2007, 04:53 PM
Is there any movement to get them moved to Title I? The old hollywood arguments against suppressors are tired and false. I'd like to shoot without bothering neighbors or damaging my hearing.

230RN
November 20, 2007, 05:16 PM
It frosts me over that so many political and legal types are pointing to European law as shining examples of this or that (and, I am told, even citing European law in some of our cases), but won't consider the fact that silencers are legal in much of Europe.

PercyShelley
November 20, 2007, 07:22 PM
Any examples of the ATF saying they are OK?

Does it matter? Look at the Atkins Accelerator; they've changed their minds before with retroactive force of law.

Edit:

As long as we're talking .22lr, you can get the rapport down pretty low if you just have a long enough barrel. Maybe get a Walther g22 and have a custom 36'' barrel made?

Jim K
November 20, 2007, 07:34 PM
BATFE uses the word "portable" so as not to include things like the steel pipe with foam and sound absorbing tile that one gunshop I know uses for test firing. It is set back in the side of a hill about six feet, and cemented into the shop wall, so I don't think it is considered portable.

Jim

shc1
November 20, 2007, 08:00 PM
They're made for people who want to look cool, but can't.
Now just because...
It's not the...
If I wanted to...

Oh hell, I was cool.

But---

If ya get the can get the paper work.

Jdude
November 20, 2007, 08:13 PM
Those fake silencers/ barrel extensions- What effect do they have on the muzzle flash?

bogie
November 20, 2007, 10:42 PM
Bloop tubes? Those things are used to adjust the frequency of barrel vibration, and have nothing to do with sound suppression. They're just big and ugly.

TBeck
November 21, 2007, 01:46 PM
Gamo sells an air rifle with a supressor on the end, although they very carefully don't call it that. That's about as close s you're going to get to a suppressed rifle without a tax stamp.

Conqueror
November 21, 2007, 05:14 PM
Bloop tubes? Those things are used to adjust the frequency of barrel vibration, and have nothing to do with sound suppression. They're just big and ugly.
Bloop tube =/= harmonic tuner. Bloop tubes are just thin-walled aluminum tubes used to extend the sight radius on a rifle.

Gamo sells an air rifle with a supressor on the end, although they very carefully don't call it that. That's about as close s you're going to get to a suppressed rifle without a tax stamp.
ATF Tech Branch ruled that a silencer permanently affixed to an airgun barrel is not subject to the NFA.

Gifted
November 21, 2007, 11:12 PM
I always thought it would be interesting to try to make something that would divert the sound forwards. Not supress it, but simply keep it in front of the muzzle.

It would probably look something like a flash suppressor, the problem would be the bureau taking the sound reading behind the gun, and not one in front. Another good thing about that fairness in firearms testing act floating around.

fearless leader
November 21, 2007, 11:46 PM
Your friend may have seen a new pellet gun that has a suppressor on it, but that is not a firearm and the suppressor is plastic.

fearless leader
November 21, 2007, 11:48 PM
I always thought it would be interesting to try to make something that would divert the sound forwards. Not supress it, but simply keep it in front of the muzzle.


Doesn't your muzzle do that?:confused:

Ohen Cepel
November 21, 2007, 11:49 PM
If it's permanently fixed to an air gun (not a firearm) then it's a different game.

Other than that, you have to get the tax paid.

Gifted
November 22, 2007, 01:52 AM
Doesn't your muzzle do that?Not well. Otherwise you wouldn't need EPs to shoot.

PercyShelley
November 22, 2007, 02:57 AM
How well do those Noveske barrel devices redirect muzzle noise? Those are still non-NFA.

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