[Ian11]

Quick! Your father, brother, sister, or your best friend who lives alone has just called and he/she needs to borrow a gun for protection. He/She suspects someone has been trying to break into their house/been stalking them/received death threats several times. They have no experience with guns but now they suddenly seem to have a change of heart. :neener: :banghead: They'll be over in 15 minutes so go to your safe!!

So which one would you let them borrow out of your collection? The one you'd feel they can best handle after cursory instruction in safe handling, loading, unloading, and shooting.

For me either my S&W Model 60 with a box of 130 grain SXT +P's or my SIG P228 with a box of Winchester Ranger 147's if I felt they could handle an auto.


*Yes, there are serious legal complications in lending someone else your gun.
*And I'm not sure if I'd actually do it because you can never be sure if people are really prepared to pull the trigger when they need to.
*This is meant to be one of those "What if..." "SHTF" type scenarios for amusement purposes only. But its good to know you're prepared ;)

[Majic]

I'd toss them the old Mooseburg 500 12 guage. The sound of the slide racking makes a big impression to all nearby. Plus if all else fails it makes a decent bat. :what:

[Ian11]

Yeah, thought about my 870 PM too but I think most newbies would feel intimidated by them. But if they really wanted it. For sure.

[agony]

If they have no experience with guns to begin with, and suddenly are in dire need of one, the most likely outcome of this scenario would be that the gun would be:

1- taken away from my inexperienced loved one while in a state of panic, and used against him/her because they panicked and couldn't get the gun to work.

2- used successfully, but the consequnces legally would be detrimental not only to my loved one, but to me as I loaned the firearm to said loved one. I may end up in prison and at the least never have the RKBA again plus a crapload of legal fees.

3- taken away from loved one, used against loved one, stolen by the perp and used in other crimes invloving many other lives. The gun will be found, and the NICS papertrail leads back to me. Back in the slammer I go.

[Ian11]

Point taken agony,

I probably wouldn't do it either. I'd tell them sorry and tell them to hope the police could come in time.:rolleyes: Even if they were crying and pleading with me. I respect that decision.

Again, I did this for amusement purposes.

[P95Carry]

If I knew in advance that said person was firearms competent then I would ''unbury'' my wife's (well my gun, but .. ) ..... Taurus M66 revo .. only loaded with .38 spl HydraShoks but ... very easy gun to use.

[Standing Wolf]

Nope. All my friends are adults, which is to say: old enough to exercise full responsibility for themselves.

[Soap]

I would let them borrow a Makarov and an H&R single barrel. But I probably wouldn't lend guns to people just because they say they need them. Guns don't equal compentency. Therefore I would suggest they stay at my place until things calm down. All the while I can train them to learn some things as quickly as possible.

[Lone_Gunman]

To the people who are saying they would not loan a gun to someone in their own family whose life was in mortal danger because of lack of training, or failure to be responsible enough to own a gun in advance...

I have to ask, how will you sleep at night knowing you could have prevented their needless death????


Come on, do you not read the newspaper? Have you never seen a story about a little old granny who whips out a rusty old 38 left behind by her husband who died 20 yrs ago, and then scares off, or shoots, someone entering her home.

Training is nice, but it is not a prerequisite to the right to self defense.

And to answer the question, I would loan the person a 38 caliber revolver with a 4 inch barrel, loaded with at most 38+P ammo.

[Preacherman]

As a matter of fact, I keep several guns for precisely this reason. I came through eighteen years of civil unrest (a de facto civil war, in all but name) in another country, and often saw the situation where someone needed a gun right here, right now - but their family's defensive weapons were all in use, or elsewhere, or down for maintenance. I developed the habit of keeping a couple of simple, easy-to-use, no-specialized-knowledge-required weapons for "loaner" use under such circumstances, and I keep half-a-dozen such weapons handy here as well. Old habits die hard! :D

For my money, the easiest and quickest-to-learn firearms for such situations are pump-action shotguns, lever-action carbines, and revolvers. Handguns are often not the best choice, as they're much harder to shoot accurately than a long gun (for untrained shooters, that is - if an experienced shooter needs a gun in a hurry, I have better options...). I keep a couple of 20-gauge and a couple of 12-gauge shotguns, and a few revolvers, for "loaner" use. The shotguns are easy to learn in terms of manual of arms, and light loads in them are VERY effective at close range (heck, even low-base light target loads of no. 8 shot will cause havoc to an intruder at a range of 10 feet!). With light loads, recoil isn't too much of an issue. As for the revolvers, they're .357 S&W's, which for untrained shooters will be loaded with .38 Special +P 158gr. LSWC-HP rounds - relatively easy to control, and as effective as .45 ACP hardball if they hit what they need to.

[Mark IV Series 80]

Depending on the person, and what he or she could comfortably carry, it would be either a 2 inch, J-frame S&W in .38 Special, or a 4 inch, Model 10.

I would give a minimum of 30 minutes, hands-on training, with dummy loads.

I would teach:

Loading and unloading.

Trigger control with dry-firing.

And the basic safety rules:

1) Don't let the muzzle cover anything that you are not willing to destroy.

2) Keep your finger off the trigger until you are ready to shoot.

3) All guns are always loaded.

4) Know your target.

[GSMD Fan]

Well I guess I feel the same as the majority, I would loan one of my revolvers with38 +P loads.

Why do some folks think they would go to jail if they lend a weapon and someone either uses it or misuses it?

I guess if you live in a state that requires a license for possession and they don't have a license and you provide them a handgun you are it deep kimche.

No licnese required for ownership in Texas, so I just can't see we I would be going to jail.

Even if the gun is stolen, then you report a stolen firearm.

[Ky Larry]

A can of pepper spray, a cell phone, and my Colt .38 Detective Special loaded with 125 gr. JHP's.

[Edward429451]

As a matter of fact, I keep several guns for precisely this reason.

Good for you Preacherman, I also do this.

This is a situational ethics question and I've been in this situation a few times. I've denied the request and handed guns over. It depends on what the circumstances are, the mindset of the people asking, and the perceived severity of the potential threat. Lots of things. I've said yes to this more than no.

First pick for a loaner? The 870 of course.

[dav]

My closest relatives are mildly anti. Despite that, my parent's arsenal exceeds mine by quite a bit, since my grandfather was definitely NOT anti. :D

But, hypothetically, it would be my Mossberg 500. Very easy to teach them to use it, I think easiest to use in a tight situation for someone not really familiar with firearms.

Second choice would be the .38 revolver. But I think teaching them enough to get them to hit their intended target would be really, really hard in say, 1/2 hour.

Shotgun, they'd hit their target alright.

[Mike Irwin]

Yeah.

My S&W Model 19 4" is with my parents right now.

As a "just in case," during Y2K turn over, my SKS resided with a friend.

[JohnKSa]

If the danger was that imminent, I'd just go back with them. I don't loan guns.

For the people who ask how I could live with myself, it's easy.

1. They had the same opportunity as I to acquire guns and learn to use them.
2. If they're anyone I'm close to, I've told them on more than one occasion that having and knowing how to use a gun is a very good idea.
3. Guns aren't magic, and they're not a security blanket. They're tools, and require a certain level training/acclimation/skill to use safely--even so, many experienced, trained, skilled shooters screw up and kill or injure themselves or others. Giving an untrained, unskilled person a gun in a high stress situation isn't a good idea in my opinion.

For someone who I knew to be competent with a firearm or who I trusted to behave rationally under stress (hmmmm...), I'd loan a shotgun and give them some low recoil buckshot and a short safety course.

There is absolutely no way I would give a non-shooter a handgun and ammo and send them on their way without some serious training that would include range time.

[sm]

Here right now? No.
Mom has a shotgun, we keep tabs on one another. I'll get that one back--umm--not in a hurry, if you know what I mean.

The model 37 is at my dad's,another shotgun and handgun at a brother's. There is a handgun at my ex's. Due to the situation with family I doubt I'll ever get any back. I didn't feel right leaving the ex without a gun-despite what some might say, and if truth was known, she is more likley to return that one moreso than my own family. Everything else I sold for another reason--no regrets--It was for a good thing IMO

Family made a decison. I've made mine...I sleep well knowing I'm in the right, frankly don't care how they sleep.

[only1asterisk]

I'm glad I don't have any close friends of family I don't trust with guns (with on exception, but she can't be trusted period). To those that say that they don't lend guns, I respect and understand your decision. I would loan a gun to family or friend in a heartbeat, and I have several fit for that purpose. Getting it back would be the least of my concern. People before things, always. Last time members of my family had reason to be afraid, by the time the sheriff came around, there were 4 of us with 5 handguns, 4 shotguns, and a pair of rifles. The sheriff sat and had a cup of coffee, said "You boys look like you can handle it. If you have to to shoot at anyone, call me at home." Then he left. Sometimes it's good to live away from the sheeple, with family and friends you can depend on. I miss it.


David

[10-Ring]

Being in California & potentially criminally liable if that borrowed gun is used in crime, my answer is NO, I don' have a gun I lend out.

[Mark IV Series 80]

Originally posted by JohnKSa:

If the danger was that imminent, I'd just go back with them. I don't loan guns. Hello John,

If the danger was that imminent, why would you go back or let them go back?


There is absolutely no way I would give a non-shooter a handgun and ammo and send them on their way without some serious training that would include range time.

In an emergency, there is not always time to go to the range to get live fire instruction.

A couple of years ago, a good friend called me in the late afternoon.
He had just purchased a house, and during the day, someone broke in while he was at work. The electricity was not yet turned on at the house, and he was concerned that the burglar might return that night.

I drove over to his house, and lent him my Model 10, and 12 rounds of .38 Special. I gave him a 30 minute operation and safety course in his living room. He was able to sleep that night.

Over the next few weeks, I took him to the gun shop, where he purchased a police trade-in Model 67, and I took him shooting three times for a total of more than 6 hours. He has become a pretty good shot, and he feels good that he has the means to defend himself.

I don't think that 30 minutes is adequate time for teaching self-defense with a handgun, but, in an emergency, it's enough time to teach the basics with a revolver, and how to be safe.

[firestar]

Ruger Speed Six 4" .357 loaded with mild .357mag or .38+P. Most of the people in my family have a basic idea of how a gun works and I would trust them to do the right thing.

My sister was thinking about getting a gun after her divorce because didn't like the idea of being alone without a man around if something happened. I told her to get a small frame revolver after she checked out many of my handguns. She seemed to like my Charter Arms Off Duty but had second thoughts about having a gun in the house with her 6 year old.

[denfoote]

Been there. Done that!! Lent my friend my Ruger single six!!

[Tacblack]

Of course if it was a friend or loved one I would already be by them. Other wise yes I have done this with 2 of my guns depending on the person.
A smith 686 and my Taurus 92

[seeker_two]

I'm with Mark IV Series 80 on this one. But I'd make it at LEAST an hour of instruction & drills. And at least one day at the range mandatory....

As for the gun, I suppose I could lend out my Stoeger 12ga. double. Easier to learn & operate than a pump--and visually intimidating, to say the least...:what:

But, more often, I'd have that person stay with me or go to the police. No use in sending them BACK into a bad situation... :scrutiny:

[stevelyn]

I would berrate them for not paying attention to anything I tried to tell them in the past about being prepared, and waiting till crunch time to aquire survival tools and skills. Then I'd send them on their merry way telling them "Good Luck" as I booted them out the door. My tolerance level for sheeple is low, even friends and family. :banghead:

[Sean Smith]

No, but only because I own one gun right now (wierd feeling... :D ), and a pistolsmith is working on it right now.

My friends aren't random idiots. Therefore, I'm happy to loan them guns when I've got 'em.

[Skunkabilly]

Depends. If it were my shooting buddy and all his guns got stolen and needed a gun to hold over the 10-day period, sure, I have a few.

If it were someone with no experience, it would be a slumber party and condensed gun skul.

[hawk0484]

She is single & owns her own business (massage therapist) and was getting the willies going into her house alone late evenings after being gone all day.

What I loaned her was a Taurus model 85. I spent some time with her here at my house going over safety, loading weapons, etc. Then we took all my handguns, sons' handguns, and hubby's handguns to the range, and got her familiar with handling them and shooting them. At the end of the day, I was comfortable loaning her that gun for a while, until she had a chance to shoot them all again and decide what she wanted.

She's since then bought 2 guns and is always someone I can talk into going to the range with me!

Becky

[Chris Rhines]

No experience with guns or shooting? Then I wouldn't give them a gun, plain and simple.

- Chris

[valnar]

Moving aside the legalities and the insaneness of such a request from a relative, I will answer the question.

Any S&W K-frame with a 4" barrel would be best. If they've never shot a gun, I'd load it up with 38+P. A model 19/60/66 would suffice.

-Robert

[Ala Dan]

Firearm = NO WAY due to possible legal consequences

But I do have a nice selection of BASEBALL BAT'S
from which they could choose!:D :uhoh: :rolleyes: :)

The truth be known, EVERY MEMBER of my household (and
there are 4 of us total) has access to any and all firearms
in my possession. With all family member's having their own
CCW license; I don't see a problem with it. At any given
time, they are more than welcome to borrow my weapons
for their personal protection!

However, any other person would need to select an
appropiate baseball bat!:D :uhoh: (Laughing Really Loud)

Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member

[blooch]

yes i do .

yes i have.

would i do it again?

yes i would, but not to everybody i know.

was it fired, yes.

did it hit it's mark yes, stopped the attack quite well. the borrower of the gun lives today, the attacker is a guest of tdc for the rest of his life. he does not hear or see so well after the experience. he attacked my then girl friend and she shot him six times, as he reached through her drivers side window to drag her out, with a 4" 629. her experience with guns was plinking with me and her family. yeah, i was questioned. she was no billed. there was no civil suit. but this was 20 years ago. there was no chl and the laws were pretty much interpeted case by case. she defended herself, first with a stun gun, a new thing at the time, then the 44. she was travelling back and forth on a 90 mile trip from college to her home for the weekend as she did every week. this same guy followed her for about 3 weeks as she left school and she noticed him the second time and got his lp and turned him in.no stalking laws. the local sheriff's deputy asked her if she had a gun, "no, but my boyfriend does".....she had one that night when she got home. on her next trip home she had a flat about 10 miles away from school and about 4 miles from the nearest town about 4pm. no cell phones then. she was going to fix her flat when she spotted the guy she seen before. she tried to get away on the flat, but he forced her off the road with his car and had her trapped down the embankment. he should have stayed in his car and left her alone.

would i do this again for someone i loved. yes. no training, no gun handling experience? there is only one person i know that i would not loan a gun too. he is anti, he has "issues" of the mental variety, and i 'm quite sure he has no ability to handle any firearm or weapon. he also has no desire to finish what he starts, never has had. a weapon would most likely just get taken from him and perhaps have it used on him or others. his mental issues are not diagnosed, but believe me, he's nuts in my book. i would not be able to defend my decision to loan him a weapon. and defend my decision is just what i had to do in the case above.......for hours and hours.

the case above went our way. i did not say that the da just rolled over and said...you defended yourself, go home..... to my then girlfriend. he did everything he could to make it out that we were acting together to kill someone. in his not being able to do so kept there from being any chance of a civil suit. he did his job. it is a wringer to go through. they twist evreything you say and try to make a case out of it. if they don't some bright attorney for the other side will. he left no stone unturned.

if the gun is used , in my experience, you are going to miss a lot of work. be asked a lot of very leading questions. things that you think have nothing to do with you are going to be very important to you, and you won't know why except for the fact it may keep or put you in jail. every nook and cranny of your life, yeah your's, the loaner, is going to be put through the mill. it will cost you in time and money.

did i think she'd ever shoot anyone? no , just because i thought she'd never have to. did i think she would if she thought she had to? never was any doubt whatsoever. again, i never thought she'd have to.

did i train her? no just how to load and fire the gun. she had shot a 22 pistol some. she understood aligning the sights. she knew she would not be putting ear plugs in in an life or death situation. didn't train her much. she shot six times, hit him six times, no shots were life threatening, but they all hit him. she said later he did not just sit there like a tin can and she was excited. if you had given her that gun before this and plenty of time, she would go 6/6 on a soda can. she said it was like nothing she could explain.

i've never shot at anyone. never been attacked by someone. i can only rely on what she said here.

was i prepared for what happened to me? no

did i live through it? yep, and have never regretted it.

did i marry her? nope , and have never regretted it.

where is she now? she's a cop in a medium sized town in texas

still friends? yes

did this drive us apart? no, but it created lots of problems for both of us in our families.

loaning gun easy to do? yep, as i said above , i'd do it again. i never regretted doing something that kept someone alive.

[Edward429451]

:what: WOW Blooch, some story. Glad it turned out OK. It may have weighed even more heavily on you if you had turned her down for the gun, and it turned out different than it did. Not to pry, but did her family realize that and thank you at some point afterward?

it is a wringer to go through. they twist evreything you say and try to make a case out of it. :banghead: :cuss: :fire:

[Johnny Guest]

You know, EVERYTHING is on a case-by-case basis. Can't think of any adult family member who doesn't have the basic gunhandling training and skills to properly use a firearm. That is a comfort.

I have three or four suitable handguns and a couple of shotguns which I'd loan out. I got a Glock 19 for the main purpose of loaning to visiting friends. There's nothing wrong with a four-inch S&W .38, as well.

I wouldn't lend a gun to someone I couldn't trust to do the right thing with it. I know my responsibilities and duties, and stand ready to account for my actions.

Best,
Johnny

[Blueduck]

Yep, though there are only certain people I would loan a gun to.

I have a 3" 65, thats become virtually a "community gun". It's normally only loaned out to other people in the Parole office who did not carry and decide for some unexpected reason it might be best to have a gun that day. These people are of course already qualified with thier own revolvers so training not an issue.

I can and have loaned this gun out on occasion to trusted others as well. Good thing about a revolver, doesn't take long to bring someone from novice to at least semi-competent. Usually spend way more time on "When" to shoot rather than "how".

[Mossyrock]

As I type this, I am 3,000+ miles away from home and the people I love. Just before I left, a "certain young lady of my acquaintance" who is a divorced single mother was receiving threats from her ex-husband. Literally 12 hours before I got on the plane, we were at the range, giving her a quick refresher. My 4" 66 is currently residing in her bed-side gunsafe. Would I do it again? Without hesitation...for THIS person. Would I loan a gun to EVERYONE I know? Not a chance. Hell, I wouldn't trust my brother-in-law with a pointy stick. Here is a good question to ask before loaning a gun:

If it came down to it, would you give your life for this person in their defense?

Kind of puts it into perspective, doesn't it?

[JohnKSa]

If the danger was that imminent, why would you go back or let them go back?
I guess for the same reason you let your friend go back.
In an emergency, there is not always time to go to the range to get live fire instruction.
Precisely the reason I've spoken to my friends and family on more than one occasion about the need for guns and gun training.

I meant what I said about guns not being magic. What I mean by that is simply introducing one into a dangerous situation doesn't automatically "fix" everything. In fact, it can easily make things much worse.

I also meant what I said about guns not being security blankets. They are not something that's supposed to give you a warm fuzzy by its mere presence.

They are a responsibility. A responsibility to store them safely. A responsibility to use them safely. A responsibility to use them lawfully.

I guess you figure you got that all of that across to your friend in 30 minutes. Maybe you did, and maybe you didn't. I'm glad it worked out well for the both of you, but it could have very easily gone the other way.

Let's ask another question.

A friend comes over in desperate need. He has no vehicle, and no driving experience, but needs to drive to a job interview in the morning. You can't possibly chauffeur him, you have a big meeting with the boss tomorrow. You happen to have a spare vehicle.

Assuming it were legal, would you give him the keys and turn him loose with just a 30 minute sit down talk and no behind the wheel time?

Now, explain to me the difference, if you respond to this question differently than you did to the original question in the thread.

[Lone_Gunman]

JohnKSa,

The difference is safe operation of a gun is much less complicated than safe operation of an automobile.

Old ladies with no training whatsoever have been known to defend themselves successfully with handguns.

[Preacherman]

I see that many on this thread would lend handguns to neophytes. IMHO, this is NOT GOOD!!! A handgun is much more difficult to use rapidly and accurately than a long gun. I've loaned out .22 rifles before (surely one of the easiest weapons to use), as well as double-barrel and pump-action shotguns. These are easy to learn to use quickly, and at typical home-defense ranges, they aren't difficult to employ and get good hits. I would be MUCH more reluctant to lend out a handgun than to lend out a basic long gun. (Of course, if the person has some training and/or experience, that changes the equation immediately.)

[JohnKSa]

Old ladies with no training whatsoever have been known to defend themselves successfully with handguns.
And children with no training whatsoever have been known to drive vehicles sucessfully while old ladies with lots of training have been known to be totally incapable of driving safely.

Nevertheless, in terms of controls, I agree with you, the average handgun is simpler to operate than the average car.

But actually making a gun go bang is actually the simplest part of using a gun. It's the legal, safety, social , etc, aspects, of firearm use that make it similar in complexity (perhaps even more complex) to using a motor vehicle. I just don't see how you can give the legal aspects of deadly force a proper showing in a 30 minute session, and I don't think it's realistic to assume (for example) that a person with a handgun, a 30 minute familiarization session and no range time is going to be effective and safe in a house with no power in the middle of the night.

Regardless of that, the analogy is very good for one simple reason.

An incompetent person can purchase a car and get a license (no driving test required in my state). An incompetent person can purchase a gun and keep it in their home (no license required in my state.)

But, those two actions place absolutely no responsibility on you (or me).

Lending someone a gun when you know they don't know how to use it, or lending someone a vehicle when you know they don't know how to use it is irresponsible. Even if you try to assuage your conscience by giving them a cursory training session.

And, both of the hypothetical questions skirt the important issue--if these people in question had taken responsibility for their own safety/transportation, all this would be a non-issue. This is the REAL issue which is carefully camoflauged by making an emotional appeal. I.e.: "Your FAMILY member or FRIEND needs HELP NOW!"

How does the saying go?

"Poor planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part."

I'm not really that cold. I would try to help them. I might offer them a place to stay for the night. I might offer to go stay with them for the night. I might offer to give them some REAL firearm training (like mossyrock described) and/or help selecting a firearm.

I just don't consider interjecting a handgun into a situation with an untrained, stressed out person to be a true help.

[Lone_Gunman]

Lending someone a gun when you know they don't know how to use it, or lending someone a vehicle when you know they don't know how to use it is irresponsible.

Now how is it that lending an incompetent person a gun is irresponsible... but selling one to them at a gun store is not?

Do you recommend mandated "competency" classes prior to being allowed to purchase a fire arm?

[c_yeager]

How can anyone involved in shooting say that people need to rise to a certain level of comptance to safely possess a firearm? Isnt this exactly what the anti's say? How far is this from saying that someone need to be in a "club" to prove thier ability to own a gun (ala germany, australia etc)? You guys have all fired weapons before. You know as well as i do that it isnt difficult to be safe with a firearm. Now with that in mind there ARE people who i wouldnt trust with a gun around me. Simply because i think they are untrustworthy or might shoot someone for fun. My really easy solution to this is that i dont associate with low-lifes. My friends an family are people that i would trust with my LIFE. The very IDEA that i wouldnt trust them with a usefull tool is absurd. But the fact remains (and we never seem to get sick of preaching this) that every american is QUALIFIED to have a gun. And that RIGHT should not be infringed. So, am i going to let my states (unconstitutional) 5 day waiting period keep a friend or relative in danger for one more week? Not only no, but HECK no.

edited to add (since i didnt even answer the ACTUAL question) Given the time i would take the person in question to the range and let them try all my guns (save my personal carry piece) and let them decide which they were most comfortable with. Without time its going to be between the shotgun or a revolver depending on the circumstances. Of course i would be taking them to the gun shop at the earliest available convenience to purchase a weapon of their very own. And presto! one more convert to the cause. There is no better gun advocate than a person who truly has NEEDED one in their lives.

[Black92LX]

i would have my lawn chair and mossberg 500 ready with the 18'' barrell. they i arrive i'd say lets go. and i would sit in their front yard. or maybe just on the couch inside and handle it for them, if they had never used a gun before. then after the situation was handled i would drive them to the gun shop and say. you want this one. and teach them to use it propperly.

[YodaVader]

"To the people who are saying they would not loan a gun to someone in their own family whose life was in mortal danger because of lack of training, or failure to be responsible enough to own a gun in advance...

I have to ask, how will you sleep at night knowing you could have prevented their needless death????

If the situation was that serious I would just tell them to come on over to my place where someone (me) has no problem handling guns. Or I would show up at their place - again with a "tool" that would get the job done if needed.

"
i would have my lawn chair and mossberg 500 ready with the 18'' barrell. they i arrive i'd say lets go. and i would sit in their front yard. or maybe just on the couch inside and handle it for them, if they had never used a gun before. then after the situation was handled i would drive them to the gun shop and say. you want this one. and teach them to use it propperly."

Yeah , I have one of those trusty Mossbergs as well - would have no problem helping out loved ones with it should the need arise.

[Black92LX]

i may wouldn't loan them my gun if they had inadequate experience. but you can garuntee that i would be the first in line to solve the problem even if i had to pull the trigger and lose my life as long as they were safe. family is family friends to i'll fight to the death for the ones i love.

[Logistar]

It is simple for me. All my relatives and close friends know where I stand on CCW. I have suggested to them that they should learn to shoot, get their CCW and stay prepared. If the excuse is money or even transportation, I tell than that I will take care of it - even paying for their license and gun if necessary.

If they choose not to do this and then "get scared" and ask for a gun... they already made their decision. I don't want to loan a gun to a person who knows nothing about them.

If my sister asks to borrow a gun... I will let her borrow my revolver. She shoots a revolver and I can only imagine her asking if it was broken, stolen, etc.

Loaning a gun to a scared, untrained person sounds like a bad idea to me.

Logistar

[Gordon]

My 4 Sigma's(2 in 9mm 2 in 40) and 4 extra preban Ak's are reserved as loaners for my 'retainers' when they come to take my legally registered firearms. I have a loaner hunting gun or two, but loaner guns for "protection" seem counter productive.:uhoh:

[4v50 Gary]

A friend in need? What caliber does (s)he want?

[foghornl]

Only person within reasonable driving time (less than 1 hr) is my sis-in-law.
For anyone else, it is F.F.Y.


Fend For Yourself

[CWL]

Yup.

Depends on the family/friendship relationship, but my dad can always keep one-o-mine Glocks at his place, also the 586.

My SKS and 870 are also 'extreme need' weapons.

There are those I trust my guns to, there are others I wouldn't lend my car, let alone $20 to.

[JohnKSa]

First of all, I'm not against giving firearms to people.

I've given a shotgun to my sister, and a revolver to my mother.

I made sure that both of them knew how to use them before I did so, and I'm not talking about a 30 minute talk, either.

Back to the questions though--how is someone buying a gun different from my loaning them a gun.

ANYONE (competent or not) can go buy a gun if they wish, as long as they are not legally disqualified for some reason. It's not necessarily a good idea, and I recommend to anyone who asks me that they take a basic firearm safety course or a rough equivalent when they purchase a firearm. (We're talking about people who have no experience with guns--remember the starting post?)

But, if they don't take a course and still choose to buy a gun, I don't have a problem with that, it's their legal right, and I'm not big on infringing on people's rights. EVEN when they may be doing something stupid. We know what I think is prudent, but that's not what the law says.

Now, you'll want to know if I support waiting periods or mandatory training. NOPE. Remember what I said about infringing on rights. That's a bad thing. Rights must be sacrosanct, untouchable. EVEN when people don't use them wisely. Otherwise they're not rights. They're priviliges which the government in it's infinite wisdom and mercy parcels out at its discretion.

But, you say, YOU'RE infringing on their rights by not loaning them a gun. Wrong again. They have the same rights as I do to purchase guns and the same rights I do to use/loan their property at their discretion. They chose not to exercise their right to purchase a firearm, and their lack of planning and deficiency of logical forethought doesn't inspire confidence in me that they will safely/legally use the firearm they want me to loan them. Therefore, unless I can give them an adequate training session at the end of which they can demonstrate through knowledge and gunhandling skills that my initial impression is incorrect, I'm not going to let them leave with one of my guns..

Is a dealer irresponsible if he sells a gun to a person who is clearly incompentent. Yes, in my opinion he is. Is he breaking the law? Not at all. But, that misses the point. IT IS NOT HIS RESPONSIBILITY TO DETERMINE THE FITNESS OF THE PURCHASER--ONLY THE LEGALITY OF THE TRANSACTION. I can't take that kind of a hands off approach. Remember--this post was about a family member or close friend. Unlike the dealer, I CARE about these people. In the same way I wouldn't toss the car keys to someone I know can't drive, I wouldn't give a loaded gun to a person I care about whom I knew to be completely untrained.

I hold myself to a higher standard than the person who is merely conducting a legal mercantile transaction. The fact that I may not be held legally responsible for the mayhem which may result from my ill-advised loan doesn't change the fact that I would still hold myself responsible.

Ok, my turn to ask a question. Does anyone know what the NRA considers to be the minimum course duration (hours) for training a person in Basic Firearm Safety? Does anyone know if actual range time is considered integral to this minimum course?

[Mastrogiacomo]

If no gun permit or proper training -- Hell no... but if properly trained, certified but just without a gun -- my Beretta compact.

[clubsoda22]

They don't need the gun "right now" unless the person is in their house. Anyway, tell them to give me 4 hours, go to the local shop/indoor range, find them a good 38/357 revolver or uncomplicated 380 or 9mm automatic. (whichever they feel more comfortable shooting), take 2 hours to teach them to shoot and send them home with their own gun and some good ammo. I'll lend them the money for the gun, no problem, but not one of my guns.

[JohnKSa]

Ok, my turn to ask a question. Does anyone know what the NRA considers to be the minimum course duration (hours) for training a person in Basic Firearm Safety? Does anyone know if actual range time is considered integral to this minimum course?
No takers, I guess...

The minimum Basic Firearm Safety course provided by the NRA is called a "First Steps" course. It is 4 hours long and includes range time.

The standard Basic Firearm Safety course provided by the NRA is 8 hours long and, of course, includes range time.

For the record, neither of these courses deal with the legal aspects of using a firearm in self-defense.

[pale horse]

This is really a good thread.

To answer the question, Yes I would. If I knew that the particular individual had some common sence.

Currently my buddy is borrowing my model 10 till he can afford one of his own. He was in the army and knows how to handle a weapon so that is one of the reasons I loaned it to him. But for those who I do not trust 100% I tell them that I am only a few speeding tickets away. The reason I say this is because it is hard to impart all my judgement, skill, training and common sence to them in a short period of time. There are two gals in my Church that are house sitting a good way away from town and I have trained both of them to shoot so that they are at least competitent if I did need to borrow a pistol. I told them that if something looks funny to call me and I will be there quick fast and in a hurry EVOC, red light running when clear, california stopping, bootlegging corner turnning to get to the two gals for their safety.

There is a verse that says "blessed are the peace makers." as well as "no greater love than one who gives his life for another." I have no resevations about helping those in need. Nor would I care if I died doing so or spent my life in prision for helping the individual legally.

For the selected few people I trust I would lend a side arm and for the rest I will go to them and help them. Of course I will have a few weapons with me.

[ruger357]

NO.