Have you ever Shot a Double Load? Kaboom?


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dubious
November 20, 2007, 10:53 PM
What, praytell, happens if you accidentally double charge a round? Has this happened to anyone? I can't help but wonder.

I'm loading .44 mag with my Ruger Redhawk, and I'm being very careful. If I did double charge and a case ruptured (say a double charge of Titegroup) I'm imagining the Redhawk PROBABLY wouldn't just explode, right?

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SilentArmy
November 20, 2007, 11:23 PM
I have had TWO Kabooms in .40 SW. Glock 27 and Beretta 96 and both were plenty violent just from case failures! Double charge will DESTROY a firearm as well as injuring the shooter in Most cases. Gunzone has some good pics of destroyed guns from KB. If there is any chance of a double charged reload, weigh them for consistency as a Revolver would literally be a FRAG Grenade in your hand.

earplug
November 21, 2007, 12:52 AM
I double charged a .44 Rem Mag. with 6.8 x 2 of unique under a 200 grain cast bullet. Only problem was the noise, recoil and primer pocket.
Did get my attention while shooting a 4 inch m-29. Were still fine.

buenhec
November 21, 2007, 12:53 AM
At my last steel shoot, this guys Kimber just went Kaboom. His mag was destroyed and it blew the grips off. His face was all bloody but he was ok. I felt really bad for the guy.. He also messed up his gun, we couldnt even move the slide any more.

Novus Collectus
November 21, 2007, 01:09 AM
This guy thinks he double loaded the one that did this.
http://explodedstuff.com/forum/index.php?topic=2.0/

ReloaderFred
November 21, 2007, 02:11 AM
While shooting in a PPC match at the Los Angeles County Sheriff's Range in the late 70's, the guy shooting next to me at the 50 yard line had his very nice S&W Model 19, with Bomar Rib, go to pieces from either a double charge of Bullseye, or a triple charge. The top three chambers of the cylinder were torn out. The backstrap was completely gone and the Bomar rib, when it finally landed, looked like a horseshoe. Fortunately, he wasn't hurt, other than a stinging hand and his hurt pride.

Small amounts of fast powder are easy to double or triple, if you don't watch closely.

Hope this helps.

Fred

dubious
November 21, 2007, 03:10 AM
Ahhhh sheeyyyoooot.... :what:

I'm scared... scared careful! Maybe this should be a sticky to warn us all...
:eek:
More stories?

redneck2
November 21, 2007, 07:45 AM
As a general observation without actual experience...

Rugers may live through a double charge. S&W's seems more likely to grenade.

The faster the powder, the more likely to run into a problem. due to the volume of the charge and the speed of the pressure rise.

Lots of times newbies want to use lighter charges of faster powder (economics I suppose) and they're the ones that should use the slowest powder.

Sheldon
November 21, 2007, 09:31 AM
Had what I'm sure was a double charge of Bullseye in my Colt Gold Cup in 45 ACP. I got lucky and all it did was blow out the bottom of that magazine and the web of that case...kept it as a reminder to pay better attention.

strat81
November 21, 2007, 10:28 AM
Holy shlimola, you guys have may petrified to even go near my press now. Thanks!

jmorris
November 21, 2007, 11:04 AM
I have seen a few double charges over the years, 1911’s get cracked grips blown out mags and destroyed barrels for the most part. I have to say the one that surprised me was a glock 34; it just blew out the base of the case and locked up. After getting the case cleared and checking everything out the pistol went on and finished the match. I have seen many squibs and some shooters that have tried to rack another round in the chamber, before stopped. I think that would be worse than a double charge.

bobotech
November 21, 2007, 11:46 AM
My son blew up his 45 XD (and pissed off Dean Spier at the same time, long story).

He and I must have double charged a round (we were using 4.5 or 5 grains of red dot, can't remember the starting load we were using) on a single stage press that we were using. Now that I look back, I can see what we did wrong.

We were trying to be more efficient than you should with a single stage.

What we were doing was resizing the shells, then priming them in our Lee autoprime. Then we trimmed them (before we learned that you really don't need to trim 45 brass everytime) and then belled them.

Next we grabbed a shell from our loading block, charged it in the Lee powder charger and grabbed a bullet and put it on the shell and put it back in the loading block.

So what we were doing was trying to save a step inbetween charging and putting the bullet on top of the charged round but that meant that we didn't get the chance to use a flashlight and peer into the charges to make sure that they are all evenly distributed evenly.

Needless to say, that I think was how we over charged the round.

We went shooting and I heard an odd boom/snap from the lane over and mykid walks over saying he blew up his gun.

He was pissed as I was after we realized that he was okay except for a bruise and some stinging.

We took it home, disassembled the weapon and removed the shell. The only visible sign of damage was the crack on the right side of the frame. We put the gun back together and it dry cycled perfectly. We of course never shot it again but then shipped it back to Springfield.

They replaced the frame (reasonably too) and thats all that was needed. The slide and the barrel were still in perfect condition.

Yeah, it sucked as a learning lesson but its a lesson well learned and now we are much more careful. We also were very pleased with just how well the gun held up to an apparent double charge. I wonder what would have happened if it was a glock?

Crimp
November 21, 2007, 12:09 PM
I saw a Smith .357 stainless snubby kaboom at an outdoor range. I don't know what he was shooting, but I'm guessing a double charged reload.

The cylinder blew apart into 3 pieces. One piece, about half of the cylinder, blew 60 feet to the left. Another 1/3 of the cylinder went 40 feet to the right. I believe either piece could've easily killed someone if it had hit them. The third cylinder piece wasn't found. The top strap was totally blown off and wasn't found either. The person shooting it wasn't hurt.

I think of that snubby each time I sit down at the reloading bench.

Novus Collectus
November 21, 2007, 03:05 PM
Lots of times newbies want to use lighter charges of faster powder (economics I suppose) and they're the ones that should use the slowest powder. True dat!
I am only a novice reloader and I try to use less powerful powders for the weight for just that reason. It is kinda hard to double check by weighing the finished cartridges when the weight variation between cast bullets and different manufacture cases can be close to the the same difference of a double load versus a single load.

rcmodel
November 21, 2007, 03:27 PM
Lots of times newbies want to use lighter charges of faster powder (economics I suppose) and they're the ones that should use the slowest powder. +1
Never a truer statement!

The very fast pistol powders are the ones most likely to get you in big trouble fast!

Saving a few cents a box on powder is not a good enough reason to use them when you are just learning to reload.

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j219/rcmodel/KTOG/1224.gif
rcmodel

Walkalong
November 21, 2007, 05:18 PM
Have you ever Shot a Double Load?
Only with a 12 gauge double barrel, years ago, where some newbie fool (me) had his fingers on BOTH triggers. I learned fast.
Talk about recoil. :eek:

bobotech
November 21, 2007, 07:07 PM
What is a good suggestion for a good overall slow burning powder for plinking loads for 9/357mag/40/45? I know thats a long shot but something that might be useful next time I go to buy powder.

GaryL
November 21, 2007, 08:06 PM
What is a good suggestion for a good overall slow burning powder for plinking loads for 9/357mag/40/45? I know thats a long shot but something that might be useful next time I go to buy powder.
Fill 'er up with unique is an old timer's saying for the reason it's hard to overcharge with a powder that pretty much fills the case. I happen to like Unique and Herco for 45acp. They are both somewhat bulky. 5.0gr of Unique fills 9mm case almost to capacity, and it meters well. I'll let someone else make a recommendation for 357 and 40, but there are loads for Unique in those calibers, and I would think a double charge would be obvious.

zxcvbob
November 21, 2007, 08:07 PM
Do you mean accidently, or on purpose? :rolleyes:

What is a good suggestion for a good overall slow burning powder for plinking loads for 9/357mag/40/45? Herco. But a bulky faster powder (like Red Dot or Green Dot) is better for 9mm plinking loads.

TennVOL
November 21, 2007, 08:11 PM
Did it last week. Double charge of win231 in .45acp in a XD45C. Blew the baseplate of the mag down (mag still in gun), and cracked the frame in 3 places. Cut my thumb on on the web. I should have got stitches but didn't.

ETA...dad did it in his G21. Blew the barrel into 4 parts, blew mag out, blew a exit hole in the side of the frame. Broken finger, 8 stitches, and still has plastic in his finger (this happened 10 years ago).

Clark
November 21, 2007, 08:18 PM
CAUTION: The following post includes loading data beyond currently published maximums for this cartridge. USE AT YOUR OWN RISK. Neither the writer, The High Road, nor the staff of THR assume any liability for any damage or injury resulting from use of this information.

1) I have done double loads and got away with it in strong guns in cartridges what have wimpy max average pressures registered with SAAMI. Many of those were almost triple loads:
25acp
32 acp
32 S&W
380
38 S&W
38 Special
9mm Luger
40 S&W
45 Colt [in a .410]
454 Cassul [in a .410]

2) There are cartridges I have worked up to a real limit, but never reached the double load in a work up:
10mm
357 mag
45acp
223
243
30-06
8mm
308
7.62x54R
270
257 Roberts Ackley
45/70

3) I know that I have worked up 7.62x25mm to the limit, but I am not sure if I have reached double any max published loads.

the pistolero
November 22, 2007, 12:14 PM
That's one reason I like AA#9 with the 10mm. You throw a double charge and it'll overflow the case. I'd much rather deal with cleaning up that fine ball powder than have to deal with a blown-up gun and the concomitant injuries. :D Just for grins, can anyone weigh in on how .45ACP and how any other powders fill up its case?

redneck2
November 22, 2007, 12:32 PM
You might consider loading down to .45LC type pressures. I used to load my Ruger up to real stomper levels, then figured out that you can only kill paper about so dead. It's also way more fun to shoot than getting the snot kicked out of you with every shot. My 255 LSWC will poke clean thru a deer from any angle. About anybody that shoots it does very well.

What else do you need?

XD-40 Shooter
November 22, 2007, 12:35 PM
I agree with the Unique recommendation, in 40 S&W, which is what I load, 6 grains of Unique behind a 165 grain Rainier fills up the case 2/3rds full, a double charge would overflow the case. This is why I like Unique, its bulky for a given charge weight, but offers excellent performance to boot.

Same thing for 357 mag, 9 grains of Unique fills the case 2/3rds and its an awesome load. Once again, a double charge would overflow the case. I would say its pretty much impossible to double charge Unique in 9mm, 357 mag, 40 S&W, 45 ACP. 38 special is a completely different ballgame, 5.5 grains of Unique only fills the case about 1/4 full, gotta be carefull with that one.

I can say that I have loaded 10,000 rounds of 40 S&W, 38 special, and 357 mag, combined, without a Kaboom.:D:neener:

Bandit01
November 22, 2007, 02:06 PM
Hell Yeah

Stupid Me, I Was Loading 10 Mm For My Glock 20. I'll Admit, At The Time, I Was Seriousy Distracted And Had A Serious Argument With My Girlfriend. Anyway, I Created A Squib Load And Then A Double Charge.
I Was At The Range Firing Off. The Squi Load Made A Poof Sound And Then, Stupid Me, Instead Of Putting The Gun Down, I Pulled The Trigger Again Kaaabbbbbboooooooooom
The Barrel Blew Up.
I Swear, If I Were Using A Cheaply Made Gun, I Would Not Be Here Today To Tell This Story. I Sent The Gun Back To Glock For Repair. They Called Me A Week Later With A Long Lecture About The Dangers Of Reloading. I Had To Purchase A New Pistol.

target1911
November 22, 2007, 02:51 PM
I use Titegroup in 9mm and 45acp. I also load on a Square Deal-B (auto indexing)
45acp
230gn LRN...3.7gn Titegroup....can be charged 4x
200gn LSWC...4.5gn " " ....can be charge atleast 2x but is visually VERY obvious

9mm
125gn LRN...3.4gn Titegroup...can be charged 2x but is VERY obvious.

I will say...I keep a light shining on the charged cases. I look into EVERY case before but the bullet in the case.

I have one more sideline question (but still a little on the topic of double charge)
Is it possible to double charge on on an Auto Indexing type press? I dont see how it would be possible unless had a hang-up and removed the cases and put them back in the wrong place.

zxcvbob
November 22, 2007, 03:02 PM
Is it possible to double charge on on an Auto Indexing type press? I dont see how it would be possible unless had a hang-up and removed the cases and put them back in the wrong place.

Yes, and I've done it once (and caught it immediately.) I had a case hang up somewhere; I don't remember exactly what. I fixed the problem and tried it again. The powder dropped both times I worked the handle, and I had not let it go all the way down where it would advance. I knew it wasn't going to advance, I just didn't realize it had dropped the powder the first time because it hadn't gone all the way up.

Just pay very close attention as you get going again after any interruption or problem and you'll be OK.

target1911
November 22, 2007, 03:22 PM
Just pay very close attention as you get going again after any interruption or problem and you'll be OK.

I DO.........and if I have any doubt about it at all, I will clear the press and start over. I dont want to take the chance.

Lazuris
November 22, 2007, 03:26 PM
One of the reasons i use alliant powers. 2400 and Unique will fill the case 2/3 full so double loads will over fill the case. Also after ever batch of rounds I make I re-weigh the rounds and segerate them buy overall weight. It does two things, acts as an additional safety and tightens my groups at the range.


BTW this is my first post here. I dig the site was directed here form CalGuns.

RustyFN
November 22, 2007, 03:27 PM
Have you ever Shot a Double Load? Kaboom?
No and I hope I never do. I added a LED light to my press so I can see every charge before I set the bullet on to be seated. I am pretty confident that as long as I continue to QC my rounds like this I will be able to avoid a double.
http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b7ce35b3127ccebdeb0ecb215c00000026100DZOGblm4Yo
Rusty

Sheldon
November 23, 2007, 03:50 AM
It all comes down to paying attention to what you're doing. My downfall was I got into too much of a rhythm and ignored what my eyes saw. I looked into the nickled case and when I saw the charge looking too high in the case, I immediately discounted what I saw as an optical illusion caused by the powders reflection within the very shiny nickled case. When the charge locked up my Gold Cup and blew the bottom of the mag out, I immediately though of the nickeled case and how it looked so full......and sure enough the cases I got out of the pistol was a nickeled one.

caymangone
November 23, 2007, 01:26 PM
You can't double load a 50 BMG without it overflowing, thank God! I've done it twice. When you try to double load 230 grains, the case doesn't have near the volume capacity.:what:

Dave B
November 24, 2007, 11:24 AM
I belive I put 2.7 gr x 2 Bullseye in 38 spl. Lucky it was 105 gr lead bullet. It was sure a +P load as it was like a max 357 shot in a S&W Mod 10 38 spl. No damage,but quite a surprise. I think it was due to confusion with a new progressive LNL press. First time in 40 years of reloading. It will sure get your attn.

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