Debating on a high end gun


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eastwood44mag
November 21, 2007, 01:37 PM
I'm sitting on the fence between a Caesar Guerini (sp???) and a Beretta 687 EELL Diamond Pidgeon. Both are 20/28 gauge combos, price is comparable on both. Both fit my shoulder fine, have a nice swing, and are NIB. The CG has a couple slight knicks in the stock, which irks me a bit, but I'm wondering how it would affect the value. I've gotten about a 50/50 response from everyone I've asked so far, so what sayeth you? Should I get the CG or the Beretta?

Thanks.

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macFarlaine
November 21, 2007, 01:41 PM
Beretta all the way,excellent quality good resale value.Slight nicks in wood always put me off,to expensive to repair.

3pairs12
November 21, 2007, 01:44 PM
have you considered Kreigoff or Perazzi in my experienc they are both great guns and also hold their resale value very well. On other hand I currently shoot a Berretta Super Lusso and also really enjoy it

Kansas Bound
November 21, 2007, 02:01 PM
simple, get both!!!

romeo212000
November 21, 2007, 02:14 PM
I say go with the CG. I have always liked their stuff and besides everyone has a Berretta now days. Get the Berretta and you can join the members only club at your skeet range. Get the CG and I would be willing to bet you will be one of few if any. But since someone else threw in other options I will throw in mine. Check out Rizzini too. I love those guns. Absolutely beautiful.

macFarlaine
November 21, 2007, 02:33 PM
Look forget all of them,jump on a plane and visit Holland & Holland in London.You may have to sell your house to buy one,but you will get your money back maybe more in ten years.

huntershooter
November 22, 2007, 07:51 AM
I've put several thousand rds. through my 687 with no problems. Hard to beat the Berreta's.

CrawdaddyJim
November 22, 2007, 08:16 AM
nicks not good, dents can be steamed out. I prefer the CG only because of the limited amount of them out there. Both will make you happy.

Shawnee
November 22, 2007, 08:33 AM
+1 for the Berreta

JohnBT
November 22, 2007, 09:11 AM
I'm voting "pick one", with the understanding that the Beretta service department has a less than stellar reputation if you ever need service. On the other hand, Guerini has the reputation as one of the best, if not the best, operations going. As I quickly found out a couple of years ago when I called with a question, the guy who called me back within the hour was Wes Lang, the president of GueriniUSA. He'd been showing guns to a customer. Talk about hands on.

For example, earlier this year there was question posted on the Guerini forum at shotgunworld. Here's Mr. Lang's response.

"Brushbuster,

If you call me at 410-901-1131 I will measure the balance point on any particular model you are interested in. I donít believe you will need to add weight to adjust the balance point, but that is a bit subjective. We will be closed on Friday, but I will be in all day tomorrow. I look forward to speaking with you.

Wes"
________

Try that with Beretta. :)

I suggest calling Guerini and asking about the price of a replacement stock. That'll will give you some ammo for negotiating the price. OTOH, nicks happen sooner or later, so if they're not too ugly I wouldn't worry about them.

But I'm biased, I own a 28 ga. Woodlander. John

http://www.hunt101.com/watermark.php?file=306934&size=1

PJR
November 22, 2007, 11:44 AM
Without knowing specifically which Guerini you are looking at it's hard to make a recommendation.

However I do have some opinions on the Beretta 687 EELL. Most of the extra cost of these guns is spent on adornment. They are good guns but no different internally than the basic 687. Sideplates on a boxlock are worse than useless. They serve only to raise the cost because they need to be engraved, weaken the stock and often make the stock harder to remove if required.

When I take a look at the MRSP of the EELL field combo 20/28 and compare it to other guns on the Beretta site it would be slightly cheaper to buy a 20 gauge Silver Pigeon V and a second in 28 gauge. The 28 gauge Silver Pigeon V is on a frame scaled to the gauge while the EELL combo is on a 20 gauge frame. The Silver Pigeon V is a very handsome gun in its own right and doesn't have the useless sideplates.

theCZ
November 22, 2007, 02:27 PM
I would like to point out that neither of them are really "high end", and I think in the world of O/U they would be mid-range guns.

As other posters have said, I'd take the CG for the simple reason that everybody has a Beretta. I like the engraving on a CG better, and the wood seems to be a little nicer for the price. I'm happy you are getting a set of 28ga barrels, you'll love 'em!

JohnBT
November 22, 2007, 06:16 PM
"EELL Diamond Pigeon Combo 20G & 28G $8,250"

http://products.berettausa.com/images/immagini_maxi/EELL_DiamondPigeon_Combo_S_maxi.jpg

$8,000 looks like the high end of something compared to my $2400 Guerini. It's certainly not your typical $1k+ or $2k+ Beretta.

Nice looking gun, and at 6# 8 oz. it's only a hair heavier than my 6# 2 oz. Woodlander.

Have you consider two $4,000 guns instead of a combo? Just kidding.

John

JohnBT
November 22, 2007, 06:26 PM
Forgot something. I like the engraving on the Forum (assuming that's what you're looking at),

http://www.gueriniusa.com/gun_models/forum/images/Forum_popup1.jpg

But I'd be very happy with a Summit Ltd. Very happy.

http://www.gueriniusa.com/gun_models/summit_ltd/images/SummitLtd_popup1.jpg

Maybe I'll run up to Guerini after duck season is over and see what they have.

John

pete f
November 22, 2007, 11:42 PM
Connecticut shotgun is not a dealer for Rizzini. worth looking at there too. I like CG, I have beretta's, they work, but when I broke an ejector spring last fall on a Nighthawk, they had it from end of Sept till late Dec. The whole of hunting season. I could have replaced the spring in a half hour, but they claimed it needed to be done by them. so that gun missed an entire season.

Dan Goodwin
November 23, 2007, 12:43 AM
Get 10 Rem 870s

Dave McCracken
November 23, 2007, 04:01 PM
Dan, your approach has much merit, but most folks here HAVE multiple pump guns.

Eastwood, go with whichever one FEELS best. CG AND Beretta will be around for a while.

macFarlaine
November 23, 2007, 05:23 PM
If you can shoot,looks and adornment should not matter,buy a baikal,and show them how well you can shoot...

JohnBT
November 23, 2007, 06:41 PM
I'd rather look at an expensive shotgun than a handful of stock and bonds I bought with the money I saved by buying a Baikal. I mean, seriously, these quarterly brokerage statements are all well and good, but they just sit here and collect dust. CDs are worse, anymore they're just a sheet of printer paper with print that starts fading as soon as you take them home.

I'm not saying I wouldn't hunt in bib overalls using a cheap shotgun - I have. But do I have to do it all of the time?

You can't take it with you.

John

theCZ
November 23, 2007, 08:39 PM
So have you made up your mind yet? Another though, for a few thousands more you can go up to Wisconsin and get a custom Kolar built exactly for your specs. I had a college professor get one and he told me, "If you are serious about your shooting, you really owe it to yourself to buy a custom shotgun." I had a laugh over that one, I'm not about to buy a $10k+ shotgun to make myself think I'm serious about my shooting.

Capstick1
November 23, 2007, 09:41 PM
My "Cheap" Browning 525 Sporting works fine for me. So far it's had about 1000 rds through it and the actions still so tight that you have to put it over your leg and use two hand to open and close it. Someone told me it takes about 5 to 8000 rds to get these things broken in and smoothed out. In terms of fit, finish, and reliability I'd put this O/U up against any overpriced doublebarrel from H & H, Purdey, etc. from the Peoples Communist Republic of England any day of the week.

macFarlaine
November 24, 2007, 11:53 AM
I never knocked Browning did I ? I use one,nice gun B1.H&H,Purdey excellent guns also work well and last for years,expensive yes.Baikal,cheap,crude,but last forever.Point being if you can shoot anything is useable.PEOPLES REPUBLIC OF COMMUNIST ENGLAND.Offensive and down right rude.
Have a look at Perazzi,lovely looking and well balanced gun.The factory in Italy is well worth a trip.

Capstick1
November 24, 2007, 12:28 PM
Aren't the Perazzi's Italian made copies of Remington 3200's?

macFarlaine
November 24, 2007, 12:32 PM
If anyone can tell us I am sure it would be you.Let's here it ?

JohnBT
November 24, 2007, 12:51 PM
I'm not aware of Perazzi's relationship to the 3200, not that I know much really. The Krieghoff K-32 started out as a Remington M-32.

"The Krieghoff K-32 was a redesigned, improved version of the Remington M-32. It was manufactured by Krieghoff and imported into the United States by Hal du Pont. Hal established a network of dealers throughout the United States who sold the shotgun for over 20 years. In the early 1980s Krieghoff redesigned the K-32 and the K-80 was the result."

From: www.halkguns.com/newsletter/k80vsK32.htm

Capstick1
November 24, 2007, 12:51 PM
I think they are. I may be wrong but I remember reading somewhere that when Remington discontinued the 3200 years ago Perazzi bought the rights to use this design for their own shotgun. This happens alot with the firearms business. Two or three different companies will use basically the same gun design and put their name on it. The Remington mod. 11, Savage 720, and Auto Five are all based on the same gun design. Howa 1500, Weatherby Vanguard, Smith and Wesson mod. 1500; same gun. I'm sure there are plenty of others that I left out.

Capstick1
November 24, 2007, 12:55 PM
I stand corrected. It was Kreighoff that copied the Remington mod. 3200.

PJR
November 24, 2007, 01:50 PM
It was Kreighoff that copied the Remington mod. 3200.

Not the 3200 but the 32. The 3200 came after Krieghoff bought the rights to the Model 32. The 3200 was Remington's attempt to recapture some of the market it lost to Krieghoff when it sold the rights to the Model 32.

Krieghoff took the Model 32 and steadily improved it until it became the K80, one of the finest target guns on the market today.

And as for your previous comment about England perhaps you might check into Japan which is where your Citori was made. Much tougher gun control laws in Japan.

Twud
November 24, 2007, 02:13 PM
I have a small collection of Parker doubles and shoot them fairly well, but if money were on the line I'd pick up my 11/87. For me the gun just works.

eastwood44mag
November 25, 2007, 01:58 PM
Haven't bought either yet.

The CG is a Tempio, IIRC, made for Cabela's ("C" on the trigger guard, which is what their designation). Both feel great against my shoulder, and balance fantastically well.

I'm just looking to have one REALLY nice gun, without going broke on it. Krieghoff and Perazzi are WAY out of my range.

redneck2
November 25, 2007, 02:52 PM
Seems to me that, when you get to this level, it's about personal fit and "shootability".

When I got my O/U for clays, I ended up with a Weatherby because it fit me so well. My scores jumped WAY up. That gun may not fit you so well. I really wouldn't have cared if it was a Beretta or Browning. Just worked out that way.

eastwood44mag
November 27, 2007, 12:07 AM
Update:

The Beretta looks a lot better than the Guerini, but will end up running about $700 more. The initial price quotes were way off.

JohnBT
November 27, 2007, 07:55 AM
I love encouraging folks to spend money. Guerini has many models more expensive than the Tempio if you're just dying to spend money. :D

Seriously, I really like the EELL Diamond Pigeon Combo, how much do they want for it?

John

Will Fennell
November 27, 2007, 08:55 AM
eastwood,
If you are looking for a Beretta Combo set, check out Joel Etchen guns. Etchen in the largest Beretta target gun dealer in the US[maybe the world] He has his own combo set that is only availible through him....

www.joelethcenguns.com

The direct link to the page with his combo sets is....

http://www.joeletchenguns.com/etchencustom.htm

His prices are great, his customer service is great, and I highly recommend him. If I can answer any of your Beretta questions, let me know......

Omaha-BeenGlockin
November 27, 2007, 01:33 PM
From what I've seen--fit and finish on the Tempio is rather crude for a $3000-ish gun. You'd be better off with a Beretta SP III-IV-V at that price point.

The higher end CG's are put together much more nicely.

My Beretta 471 has spoiled me---and in no way does a Baikal SxS come even close.

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