[HankC]

When I shoot my handguns, my groups always 3-4" to the left of point of aim at 25 yds. I know it is me, not the guns since I do this with all my handguns. I shoot 2 hand grip, facing the target, free standing. Does not matter if I grip firm or loose. Does not matter if I pull the trigger with the pad or the 1st joint (I am right hand). I can shoot 2" group at 25 yrds with my most accurate handguns but still shoot to the left. What is it?

[rcmodel]

Might look at this.

Handgun Problem Target
http://www.reloadbench.com/pdf/files/TargetRightHanded.pdf

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j219/rcmodel/KTOG/1224.gif
rcmodel

[Mad Magyar]

I know in my case, it was pushing slightly....
Here is the Wheel of Misfortune that is widely used....
http://home.earthlink.net/~potomac008/Pistol%20Wheel.htm

[SoonerSP101]

If you're right handed you may be anticipating recoil and thus pushing to the left.

[Lupinus]

try adjusting your grip so that you can apply more preasure with your right thumb. Also, how much trigger finger do you use? I find that to the left generaly means to little but YMMV.

A good target-

http://www.sportshooter.com/improving/images/correction_chart.jpg

[Glockamania®]

Try SLOWLY pulling the trigger.

[steelyblue]

rcmodel, that link is'nt going anywhere for me. What is the title of the site? I would like to see it.

[KelTecian]

take more finger out of the trigger gaurd, squeeze the trigger slowly(try to let the gun scare you a little every time it goes off)

[HankC]

I studied the chart before and I know I am not flinching or jerking the trigger, I can shoot 2-3" group at 25 yrd consistantly with my CZs. I suspect it is my grip or the "too little finger". My left hand just wrap my right hand and not gripping as firm as my right hand grip since it is not directly on the gun and does not have much to grip on. Could that be the problem? I experimented pulling trigger with the ist finger pad and the 1st joint, but does not make much difference. What exactly is the too little finger?

[TBeck]

When right-handed shooters hit to the left it's often due to the other fingers on the hand squeezing sympathetically with the index finger.

Try taking a crush grip on the gun, hard enough that your knuckles are white but not so hard that your hand shakes. Then try squeezing the trigger and see if your shots don't improve.

[Lonestar49]

...

It has to do with your supporting hand grip, be it (both hands) tight to start, or lose to start.. but the same thing is happening, like "perceiveing recoil"..

It is hard to get past these mind over matter flinches..

What is happening, and you can see this for yourself by simply holding your gun with your 2-hand grip, be it real tight, or lose, but the same effect, just as you squeeze off the shot, and "antisipate the shot".. your supporting hands fingers are tightening down (squeezing) harder at that moment on, and over, your shooting hand..

Watch the effect and your gun as it goes LEFT..


Ls

[Tim Burke]

It's usually trigger control.

[Glockamania®]

Or...your supporting hand is too loose and/or the thumbs are loosy goosy.

[f4t9r]

That chart is pretty good for what might be going on. Check it out and see if it helps

[HankC]

"the thumbs are loosy goosy"
That may be it. I know my thumbs are not locking hard on the gun. Thumb of my right hand was just rest on the grip and left hand thumb was pointing 45 degree down toward the target and not wraping on the grip either. Will try firm thumbs next trip to the range. Anyone has a link with picture of the correct grip. Thanks.

By the way, I should say 3-4" to the left of point of aim, which may be 2" to the bulleye.

[AndyC]

It's different for everyone because everyone's hands are different. Leaving aside recoil-control, your grip on the firearm only matters in terms of allowing your trigger-finger to pull the trigger straight back, as opposed to pulling or pushing it to one side or the other.

The wheels the guys have indicated are very good generic guides, but don't cater for everyone. For example, pushing the shot to 9 o'clock - typically caused by too little trigger-finger because the finger is pushing the right side of the trigger itself, forcing the muzzle to the left as the shot breaks.

However, I once taught a guy with massively long fingers, and he was shooting to the left as well - it turned out that his fingers were so long that he couldn't practically use the pad of his finger, so the first phalange itself (just below the knuckle) was pushing the right side of the trigger - again pushing the muzzle left.

Personally, I'd just move the sights, seeing as you do the same with every handgun you own - it may simply be that you're doing everything right but the sights are misaligned for your eyes anyway ;)

[nwilliams]

Consistently shooting to the left is probably a sign that you are left eye dominant but you targeting with your right eye. I see this a lot in new students who are handed who automatically assume that because they are right handed they are right eye dominant.

Some drills you can try would be pointing at something with both eyes open and then leaving your finger exactly where it is close one eye and then the other if your finger moves off target, that will tell you which is your dominant eye.

I am right handed and left eye dominant so when I shoot with both eyes open I'm less consistent than if I close or squint my right eye.

Another drill you can try to test out trigger control and is to shoot with your opposite hand using your opposite trigger finger. This will slow you down and cause you to think more carefully and feel the trigger differently. Unless of course you're one of the luck ambidextrous folks;)

Oh and don't forget to look at your front sight and keep your eye on that, if you're looking at your target you need before each pull of the trigger then you need to come off that and focuss back on your front sight picture.

Good Luck!

[HankC]

"probably a sign that you are left eye dominant but you targeting with your right eye. "

Yes. I am left eye dominant and target with my right eye, WITH LEFT EYE CLOSED. I heard this theory before, but don't really understand why there is an affect? I know it is good practice to shoot with both eyes open, but for target shooting, I shoot better with one eye open. Actually, when I served in the army (non-US), we were taught to shoot with left eye closed.

[Glockamania®]

Anyone has a link with picture of the correct grip. Thanks.

There's really no such thing as a correct grip, unless were all created through cloning. My natural grip is thumb over thumb.

Hank, my last suggestion is to have a pro with you to physically show you how to improve your shooting.

[tbtrout]

Trigger control. you are pulling not squeezing

[nwilliams]

The opposite hand drill I mentioned above is also a good way to test out your grip.

I've seen right handed students shoot better left handed and the look of amazement on their faces when they do is absolutely priceless.

Shooting left or right is generally a result of eye dominance or as other pointed out grip. Shooting low is generally a result of yanking the trigger and anticipating the recoil.

[RecoilRob]

If you can shoot a 2" group..offhand at 25yds..you are a VERY good pistol shot! And, if all your pistols consistently group to the left, it sounds to me like you are seeing the sights a bit differently than they are set for.

To elaborate, a slight astigmatism can make what looks like perfect alignment/centering of the sights to you into an off-center shot. But, the fact that you are putting tightly grouped shots onto that target tells me that your hold and pull are fine.

There IS a reason that guns come with adjustable sights. They shouldn't be used to correct mechanical shooting problems, but CAN be useful to adjust POI for vision anomalies.

If I were you, I'd bump the rear sights over a tad and call it good.

[BlindJustice]

Because liberal democrats want to take your guns away?

[Wil Terry]

.........

[Autolycus]

Originally posted by BlindJustice: Because liberal democrats want to take your guns away?

That was classic.

Seriously though I would check out the following videos...

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4584332856867071363

http://www.oregonshooting.com/vids/spgrip1.wmv
http://www.oregonshooting.com/vids/grip2.wmv

[5Wire]

Right Click to download, then print. Try another gun, same problem?

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y286/5Wire/CorrectionRH.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y286/5Wire/CorrectionLH.jpg

[pittspilot]

Hank

You have mentioned that you are right handed, and left eye dominant. So am I. I cant my pistol to the left slightly and use my left eye. I have discovered that doing so results in my grouping shots to the left of the target.

When I adjust the sites, or my POI, the problem goes away and my accuracy is fine. For a while I went out of my mind trying to fix the problem. I think the problem is just inherent to cross dominant shooters.

[jacketsfanatic]

Aim more to the right???


:neener:



Just kidding obviously...great forum. Glad I found it!

[stevereno1]

I do the same thing. The groups are tight, yet off to the left a little. I have adjusted the rear sights on my pistols shilhtly to the right, and consistantly group in the center. I guess that's why they make adjustable sights.

[Jkwas]

When you Squeeze the trigger, you may be squeezing your hand as well. Try backing off on the pinky finger and using mostly your middle and ring finger to tightly grip the gun. Your pinky finger may be pulling the gun to the left, or down and to the left.
here's a link I found useful: http://www.targetshooting.ca/reframerize.cfm?redirect=http://www.targetshooting.ca/train_grip.htm

[Average Joe]

When you squeeze the trigger, you are turning your wrist..Try just using your fingertip on the trigger, and pull strait back.

[5Wire]

Nice Link, Jkwas. Good info. Thanks.

[crankshop1000]

Perfect time for a laser.It will show you exactly what you are doing as you pull the trigger.I think the laser is the best way to get things right quickly.

[weregunner]

To piggyback on the links thing, there are useful hints as well as targets that one can make themselves.

http://www.taurusarmed.net/forums/index.php?topic=2775.0
http://www.taurusarmed.net/forums/index.php?topic=3448.0
http://www.taurusarmed.net/forums/index.php?topic=3226.0
http://www.taurusarmed.net/forums/index.php?topic=2872.0
http://www.taurusarmed.net/forums/index.php?topic=1164.0
http://www.taurusarmed.net/forums/index.php?topic=2019.0
http://www.taurusarmed.net/forums/index.php?topic=2418.0

Back to our originally scheduled program.:what::D

[farscott]

I had a similar problem in that guns that I used to shoot POA/POI all started shooting to the left. It was not much, less than a two inches at 25 yards. I could not figure it out and I checked my grip, had others watch me shoot, etc. Then one day I went to the range and all of a sudden everything was once again POA/POI. I could not figure it out.

Got home and told my wife what had happened with that day's shooting. She looked at me, looked in my range bag, and said, "You wore your old glasses today." Sure enough, she hit on it. My prescription changed and my new glasses had more correction for an astigmatism. Swapped glasses a few times during my next range session to prove it. My older safety glasses keep me POA/POI, and my new ones resulted in everything impacting to the left. Still need to talk to the eye doctor about it.