SigArms is changing. Anyone notice?


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Lightsped
November 22, 2007, 12:26 PM
Most of this post is very subjective, but I received the new SigArms catalog and thumbed through it. I couldn't help noticing how blingy so many of the Sigs have become. There are so many Sigs with rails, two toned, wooden grips, and all sorts of meaningless "special editions".

What happened to the Sigs that were all about functionality, instead of marketing features that most of us will never use.

I guess I can only dream of the Sigs from several years ago. You know, the ones that looked cool and didn't have all the bling all over them...

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Vic303
November 22, 2007, 12:32 PM
But the bling is what buyers are wanting. SIG wants to keep its marketshare, so they have to add bling.

OH25shooter
November 22, 2007, 12:36 PM
I wouldn't give SigSauer a thumbs down. Granted they are adding more "eye candy" items, but they still function better than many other brand makers. But, I do understand your point. My 229 was manufactured in 1996, plain, simple and functional.

Dave Markowitz
November 22, 2007, 12:44 PM
Ditto on the thought that SIG is catering to the market. They are a business and need to do so in order to survive. I'd rather have a gun company stay in business by catering to the market, even if their stuff doesn't particularly interest me, than ignore the market and thereby go out of business.

Tom Servo
November 22, 2007, 01:21 PM
I seem to be the only person who hates the fact that they've added rails to every single gun. I can't use any of my other holsters, and I'm not buying new ones because of a questionable design choice.

Lose the rail (and the forward serrations), and I'd already have a P220 Elite.

Sigs are still my favorite autoloaders (I have 5), but I'm not sure where their heads are at the moment.

Oh, and they still have the patent on the Luger design, so WHY aren't they making them?!?

mballai
November 22, 2007, 01:25 PM
I still like SIG, but to me it's about shooting. I like Glock better.

Old Dog
November 22, 2007, 01:29 PM
Erik F, I'm with you, brother. I just went through the new SIG catalog myself, and noted that only the SAS pistols and the 232s are sans rails. Ugh! Looks as though only used SIGs may be in my future ...

cslinger
November 22, 2007, 01:31 PM
What happened to the Sigs that were all about functionality, instead of marketing features that most of us will never use.

The guy from Kimber happened. :uhoh:

Lightsped
November 22, 2007, 01:32 PM
I too don't care for the rails on SIGs. SIGs (well, the cool, non-blingy ones) have a great looking, timeless design, but the rails really screw the look up. It's like putting rails on a 1911. Rails just looks sooooo out of place on some guns.

Maybe someday SIG will reintroduce the cool models they used to make and call them the "Classic Edition" or something along those lines....

The Lone Haranguer
November 22, 2007, 03:08 PM
I would buy another "classic" SIG (the P220SAO is quite attractive to me) as they are - or are based upon - proven designs, but cannot recommend their 1911s. They have given me good customer service, but I would prefer not to have to use said service.

Also, the current SIGs are SSINOs (SIG Sauers In Name Only;)), as they are no longer made by the original companies.

varoadking
November 22, 2007, 03:15 PM
I couldn't help noticing how blingy so many of the Sigs have become.

I started several years ago when Cohen, the former Kimber CEO, took over. Apparently everyone wants unfinished, melted, stanless slides, or rainbow titanium finishes...not...

Hell - now they have a piece that is being marketed as something new and exciting because it comes with extended magazines from the factory.

I think the P220 Carry is terrific, but it's about all SiG has done well over the past 4 years, IMHO. From the standpoint of the general public - or at least this member - SiG has lost it's way...

curmudgeon and anarchist
November 22, 2007, 03:21 PM
They make most of their money with military and police contracts, so it's very likely there will be enough non-bling guns around for a long time.

The only blingy one in my opinion is the Equinox.:D

Ala Dan
November 22, 2007, 03:27 PM
Looks too me like SIGARMS is getting far away from its stance on being

TACTICOOL~! :D :D :D

MTS Cop
November 22, 2007, 05:12 PM
It's almost like Sig is turning into S&W's auto line up...a thousand slightly different variations on the same gun. At least they don't have that confusing as hell 4 digit numbering system.

MEH
November 22, 2007, 06:25 PM
I only have one SIG and it doesn't look "blingy" at all...

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=65149&d=1191791325

varoadking
November 22, 2007, 06:26 PM
At least they don't have that confusing as hell 4 digit numbering system.

2, 3, and 4 digit models...and once you take a moment to understand it - it's really quite intuitive....

Alan Fud
November 22, 2007, 07:14 PM
There are a lot of SIGs that I would like to get but the beavertail just kills them for concealed carry.

R12GS
November 22, 2007, 08:55 PM
Its not just the bling look that has sent Sigarms downward, its their quality as well.

crebralfix
November 22, 2007, 09:21 PM
Its not just the bling look that has sent Sigarms downward, its their quality as well.

I'm not sure how "quality" has suffered. I had a P220 SAO (didn't like it)--it was fine. I acquired a new P220 Carry and it's been great.

What are the quality problems you are referring to?

Frandy
November 22, 2007, 09:58 PM
I have had a 226 and a 228 for years and now a 220 Carry. True, I don't want the rails, but I can live with them. Functionality? Dependability? I'm confident it will be there. If I'm wrong, I'll be the first to admit it and post about it.

My first two trips to the range with the 220 Carry and I put 300 flawless, accurate rounds through it. I like to get 500 rounds through it like this before I commit to a carry gun, but it has already replaced my S&W 1911 as my carry choice.

Bling? Nah...

http://homepage.mac.com/franman/.Pictures/Handguns/220_red_backgrd_Nov_10_2007_800.jpg
http://gallery.mac.com/franman/100130/Sig_220_in_High_Noon_ORIG/web.jpg

R12GS
November 23, 2007, 06:43 AM
I'm not sure how "quality" has suffered. I had a P220 SAO (didn't like it)--it was fine. I acquired a new P220 Carry and it's been great.

What are the quality problems you are referring to?

The quality problems I am referring to are usually cosmetic in nature ranging from poor application of the finish on blued guns to more serious, machining errors with faulty cuts. There have been several recent outcrys on numerous gun boards detailing the recent lack of quality control coming from Sig of late. The Sig forums and other handgun forums have had more recent postings concerning these problems.

esheato
November 23, 2007, 07:12 AM
I HAD a 226 (original West German manufacture, non-rail) and stupidly sold it to my brother. Some day I'll get it back because I'm surely not purchasing one of those new railed pistols.

Ed

1BLINDREF
November 23, 2007, 10:42 AM
The quality problems I am referring to are usually cosmetic in nature ranging from poor application of the finish on blued guns to more serious, machining errors with faulty cuts. There have been several recent outcrys on numerous gun boards detailing the recent lack of quality control coming from Sig of late. The Sig forums and other handgun forums have had more recent postings concerning these problems.
The cosmetic issues are mostly with the CPOs. The new Sigs generally don't have those issues. Every now and then there is a lemon, but that goes with anything that is mass produced, including some of the older stamped slide Sigs.

As far as the Forums go, I think people post more problems then they do good experiences.
IIRC, there was a study done a few years back and they found that if a person has a bad experience with a product or a company, they will tell an average of 10 people, but if they have a good experience, they'll only tell an average of 2.

I also don't really care for the tails and rails, but I understand why Sig has gone that route. They are in bussiness to sell guns, and bling sells. I just wish that they would continue to offer their guns without the bling as well.
I only have one Sig with a rail (P226 PME). It shoots just as well as my others (13) and it hasn't had any quality issues.

bugs100
November 23, 2007, 05:31 PM
I just sold my P225, leaving me with a P220 and P226. The trigger on the P225 was so bad I couldn't shoot it accurately.

I've had Sigs for years but I've given up on them, mainly because their customer service is so bad.

Autolycus
November 23, 2007, 07:59 PM
I prefer the two-tone stainless Sigs myself. I have no real interest in some of these equinoxes and other "blingy" guns. The two-tone is perfect for me.

wally
November 23, 2007, 08:00 PM
I too hate the rails, but I hate DA/SA operation even more. Was thrilled to find a new SIG P220R SAO two tone that will do cocked and locked.

--wally.

brigadier
November 24, 2007, 06:56 AM
We have a store across the road from where I live that sells all those "blingy" Sigs and TBH, I am quite impressed. They are very well made with some really nifty new features such as the smoothened front of the slide making it go in the holster easier and take less dings. I also like the balance of some of the newer ones where in the past, the only Sig I cared for the balance of is the 228/229. They have one smaller single stack Sig that is really awesome. It's got allot of interesting new features including a fairly unique trigger pull.
Of course, living in a machine shop, I can't find any self justice in paying extra for all of these features that I can add myself in one day and at a fraction of the price.
One thing I don't get is the mentality (as small as the crowd is) of hating tac rails. I don't see what disadvantage they have. On the contrary, I learned the semi-hard way how useful they can be a few months ago when I suspected a prowler outside and went looking for him, realizing that none of my guns had a tac rail and couldn't mount a flashlight. I brought my CZ-52 since it has zeroed in Tritium sights and had a flashlight in the other hand. The very next day, I added a tac rail to my Desert Eagle (desert Eagle since it's the only gun I have that I could conveniently add a tac rail to without going in to a major project. I am in the middle of a major upgrade on my CZ-52 and guess what it's getting among other things, a tac rail.
In any case, it IS clear that Sig is focusing more and more on the civilian market and that's a good thing. Way to often do company's from that part of the world focus almost all of their attention on police and military. Take Glock and HK for instance. Anyone from that part of the world willing to make a strong effort to broaden their horizon past the military industrial complex and those used to control everyone should be commended for it and encouraged to keep up.

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