New Guy Needs little Help


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The Duke
November 22, 2007, 11:33 PM
I've Been loading some 45's, and every once in a while I start getting "stove pipes", where the bullitt is sliding down in the casing.

I know that some use a slight coat of something on the base of the bullit, to make it hold, I've been thinking finger nail polish, can anyone give me some ideas about how to stop the stove pipes? Ya think the finger nail polish will work well? Any assistance greatly appreciated.

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eliphalet
November 22, 2007, 11:40 PM
Have you ever tried a crimp to hold the bullet?

NuJudge
November 22, 2007, 11:49 PM
Can I suggest that you segregate out Remington cases, which tend to be a lot thinner, and therefore do not hold a bullet as well.

You can also buy a size die that sizes cases smaller.

I would not use a sealant to hold the bullet in place.

presspuller
November 22, 2007, 11:49 PM
You need to crimp them in place not try to glue them. Most of the coating you see on some shells is water proofing, not glue.

hotwheelz
November 22, 2007, 11:53 PM
More crimp will help. but how much are you flaring the case before seating the bullet? This flaring doesnt need to be much on jacketed bullets, but I liite more is needed on lead bullets all of this will be cured by your crimping die. Are you seating and crimping with on die or one for crimping and one for seating? Most would agree that seperating the 2 is easier and in my opion makes a better bullet. just some ideas

birdbustr
November 23, 2007, 12:03 AM
NO GLUE or FINGERNAIL POLISH. You also need to resize the brass before reloading. Then after seating the bullet use a Lee Factory Crimp die for a snug hold on the bullet.

I don't use the flare die for my .40 cal or .357 at all, but I do have the dies. I don't see the reason to. My loaded rounds are great for me.

Wildfire
November 23, 2007, 01:26 AM
The .45 acp needs a tapper crimp. Do not roll crimp. That round headspaces on the case. If that is what you are doing and you still have this problem. May be you feed ramp needs same polishing. They may be catching on the barrel too hard. Bullets the right size ? Worn brass ? Tapper crimp and polished feed ramp should cure it.

Bullet
November 23, 2007, 02:04 AM
The Duke
I believe you are referring to (45ACP) bullet setback (not stove pipes). Bullet setback is caused by not enough case tension on the bullet. Your sizing die should resize your case enough that bullet setback shouldn’t happen but some brass is to thin and won’t put enough case tension on the bullet.

Taper crimping is only used to remove the flare from belling the case (nothing to due with bullet setback). I use these dies to help prevent bullet setback by increasing case tension –

http://egw-guns.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=40&osCsid=367db970bbf467c33f855091255e4d95


I believe the idea is that you can over taper crimp and reduce case tension (especially with lead bullets) If you taper crimp to much the bullet will be reduced in diameter along with the case, but the case will spring back some and the bullet won’t causing less case tension on the bullet.

Reducing case diameter before seating a bullet will determine the amount of neck or case tension along with the brass thickness. When sizing the case neck for semi-auto rifles using bushing dies you measure the loaded round at the neck and then use a bushing .002 or .003 less in diameter than the loaded round (some use bushings even smaller) to ensure proper neck tension (prevent bullet setback) with NO crimp.

While the EGW die only reduces the case diameter a fixed amount, it is reducing the case diameter more than most normal sizing dies hence the better case tension and less chance of bullet setback.

The Bushmaster
November 23, 2007, 10:59 AM
The Duke

Just what .45 are you loading...There are several .45 calibre size cartridges out there including .45-70, .45 ACP, .45 Long Colt, .45 Scoffield, etc.

Wildfire
November 28, 2007, 10:46 PM
It has to be a .45 ACP. I dont know of too many others that have stove pipe problems. A stove pipe would be an empty round standing up in an action that tryed to close but caught the casing in that upright position. A bullet being pushed back can be caused by more than just case tension. If the gun itself has a feeding problem or even a magazine problem, this many times will cause that bullet to catch and be pushed back. Polished feed ramps help to reduce this. After firing 100s of thousands of rounds in competition I can also say that a bad magazine will also give you fits. That feed ramp is likely the biggest and most common of all. Then I would look at the very correct explanation you were given on the tapper crimp. Too much tapper crimp will aslo screw with the head space.
If you are actually having a stove pipe problem , you may also have a bad or weak extrator. Sometimes you can get away with a slight bend, but that is only some times. Most of the time you will need a new extractor. This can also happen when a case head is worn from too many times thru the gun.

Jim Watson
November 29, 2007, 12:20 AM
You cannot crimp a loose bullet tight.
#3 and #8 are good advice.

The Bushmaster
November 29, 2007, 11:21 AM
Wildfire...Not that the Duke has this problem, but lots of people have a "nominclature" problem...It is best that people specify calibre, powder, primer, and bullet by manufacturer, amount and size. That way there is less chance of getting the wrong information when dealing with explosive compounds and components...

Wildfire
November 29, 2007, 02:47 PM
No doubt you are right. I must assume that what I said would cover just about any caliber or round fired from any auto loading pistol.
And with careful thought said what I said. I did not give and rarely will give loading spec's as to powder charges in any center fire arms. Mainly because some use arms that should not be fired at all.
There just are not too many other options when saying .45.....
I figured the crimping was cover'd very well. I added some other facts that can be an Issue when this happens. And "assumed" Both sides of the "Stove pipe"
or bullet "repositioning"... Hand gun or Tommy gun these facts would remain valid. If a .45 auto rim, then the head space thing would not apply. :) After reading the question again, I am seeing some other possibilities. If that gun is shoving the bullet in the case and then not feeding, inturn standing upright and causing a stove pipe, with the action closing on the loaded round you may have a combination of things going on. (1) the mag is holding the round too long, forcing the bullet to stay too low on the feed ramp and shoving the bullet in. Try a different mag. (2) The bullet is not being held in place by the case well enough, as has been discused quite well. (3) the feed ramp and the barrel on a 1911 styled gun are not matching. The feed ramp needs to be polish (any gun).
So !!!! There can be a several issues no matter the load, caliber, gun etc. This is not a fix all answer. It was simply things to look for that may have been over looked or not known about.

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