What does an extra $1000 buy me in a 1911?


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nona
November 23, 2007, 10:34 PM
This is likely to spark a Ford vs. Chevy war, so I'll try and phrase this carefully and be specific.

The short version: What does a $2000 1911 have that a $1000 one doesn't?

The long version:

After many months and many boxes of ammo I have to admit that I'm not happy shooting my Springfield Mil-Spec and I won't keep shooting it. I'm looking for a replacement. A lot of local dealers carry and like Kimber. So, I'm looking at the CDP and Tactical models. I really like the Kimber Tactical for about $1000 though I wish it wasn't named "tacti-cool".

I've got some money saved up and could afford more right now. They guy behind the counter said that a Les Bauer or similar high-end 1911 would get me the same basic gun with more "TLC". What's TLC worth to me in practical terms? Do I really care about 1" tighter group at 25 yards for an extra 1K? I do care about it being reliable. I've been in classes with guys that couldn't go 50 rounds without a malfunction of some sort (that instructor insisted that "too tight tolerances" cause that, is this true?). With a gun I like, I'll shoot 200 rounds in a range session, at an all day class I shoot a bit more and I want to be able to do this without a problem.

Help
:confused:

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bluto
November 24, 2007, 12:11 AM
What's wrong with your Mil Spec?

I have a Les Baer, Springfield Competition (both high end 1911's), 2 Mil Specs and a Colt. I like them all.

The workmanship on a purpose-built gun (semi-custom) is going to be better than on a production pistol. Fitting will generally be better. Trigger will probably be better. You can definitely find production pistols that will run with the big dogs, but it can be hit and miss. You might get a superior $1000 gun. You might not. The extra dough, better parts and hand fitting generally guarantee a quality pistol every time.

On a Mil Spec, a trigger job and better sights might make a world of difference.

Maximum1
November 24, 2007, 12:22 AM
Apparantly you have money to burn....One can buy a second gun for that!

hexidismal
November 24, 2007, 12:28 AM
Just out of curiosity, why aren't you happy with the Springfield Mil-Spec ? I'm not exactly a fan of the Mil-Spec myself really, just wondering what bothers you about it.

Commander Guineapig
November 24, 2007, 12:29 AM
word on the kimber...
I've shot my Bro-in-Law's Kimber Raptor II...(4 inch-ish bbl)
I love it. I don't like big caliber handguns much usually...
recoil and all that. This was different tho.
To the point that my wife-who likes recoil even less then I do-absolutely loved it.
If I had the money, that would be my carry gun.
darn fine weapon.
GP

Nix
November 24, 2007, 12:56 AM
lol ive shot a les baer, colt, kimber and the taurus 1911...
1. les baer (amazing gun)
2. taurus (couldnt find anything wrong with it)
3. kimber (i didnt like the feel of it in my hand as much + i wasnt quite as accurate with it)
4. colt (sorry fanboys i didnt like it that much)

this was all on the same day... 2 clips through each. the difference between the taurus and the les baer was not enough imo to warrant 1500 dollars... i would just buy that much ammo :-D

W.E.G.
November 24, 2007, 01:08 AM
I think its absurd to spend that kind of money on a gun that does not HAVE TO shoot national-match quality groups. What do you really care if the gun shoots two-inch versus four-inch groups from a Ransom rest at 50 yards?

Once you hit the $600 mark, you cannot buy any more reliability. Although you certainly can spend a lot more and still get an unreliable gun. Moreover, a 1911 that's a little "loose" is going to be more reliable for long range sessions or adverse conditions.

Hunter0924
November 24, 2007, 01:23 AM
Colt Special Combat Government, for a hand built pistol for the price it cannot be beat. Putting a Taurus over a Colt well we will see how that shakes out in the long run. clips huh?

esheato
November 24, 2007, 01:29 AM
I have an Ed Brown...that was nearly 3k when purchased new. There is a significant difference between my Kimber CDP and the Brown, and the Kimber wasn't cheap either.

Colt, Kimber, Springfield don't compare. Shoot one and you'll find out. Now, I don't always have 3k to spend on a pistol so I still purchase the occasional regular production 1911.

Ed

RevolvingCylinder
November 24, 2007, 01:32 AM
What makes you unhappy about your MilSpec?

My recommendation is to find a reputable gunsmith to make it exactly the way you want it.

armed85
November 24, 2007, 01:32 AM
To answer your question, if you don't like your current 1911, I doubt you'll like any 1911.

Unless there is a specific reason you can point to other than "the way it feels" you have to accept the fact that the 1911 is not the best gun for you. For example, if the hammer bites your skin, you can put a beavertail grip safety on it. If the trigger feels terrible, you can have a gunsmith to do a trigger job on it.

It's okay to not like the 1911. There are many guns out there for a reason. There is something for everyone.

I bought a Kimber Custom, Kimber Pro Carry, Colt New Roll Mark Government Model, and a Colt XSE Combat Commander before I accepted the fact that I don't like 1911s.

armed85
November 24, 2007, 01:48 AM
Saying "shoot one and you'll find out" is such BS.

I have shot the most expensive 1911s and I still don't get it. An Ed Brown or Les Baer is a good gun, but they both still feel like a 1911.

Three Thousand Dollars!

What significant difference does that three thousand dollar 1911 have that a Colt or Kimber or Springfield Armory doesn't have?

If it's the trigger, increase the Colt, Kimber, or Springfield Armory by $100 or $200 for a trigger job.

Is it accuracy? Increase the Colt, Kimber, or Springfield Armory by another $100 or $200 for a fitted bushing.

A Colt New Roll Mark Government Model with a gunsmith trigger job and fitted bushing would cost about $1,100.

Now what is the significant difference that justifies spending $1,900 more?

iiibdsiil
November 24, 2007, 02:14 AM
I don't understand why someone spending money and getting something that they are happy with is a big deal.

esheato
November 24, 2007, 02:39 AM
My Brown is solid and accurate. It has quality parts that were hand fit throughout. Secondly, I'm not paying just for parts, I'm paying for the expertise in assembly. I'm paying for the experienced gunsmith to get that trigger juuuuust right. I'm paying for the slide to move upon the frame as if it were greased glass.

And I hate to break it to you, but it feels and shoots better then any other 1911 I've touched besides full custom in approximately the same price range.

By all means, shoot a Baer, Brown or Nighthawk and if you can't tell a difference don't waste your money. I can sit here all day and expound on the reasons I like this or that...but until you get your hands on one and try it out, it won't matter.

I felt there was enough of a difference to buy into them....I can't think of a better recommendation.

OP, shoot as many as you can and decide for yourself. 1911's are 1911's and you can get a darn good gun for 500-1000 bucks...but to gain that last 10% of perfection, it's going to cost a bit more.

YMMV.

Ed

Prince Yamato
November 24, 2007, 03:19 AM
The short version: What does a $2000 1911 have that a $1000 one doesn't?


bragging rights

hexidismal
November 24, 2007, 05:04 AM
I don't understand why someone spending money and getting something that they are happy with is a big deal.

To me it's not. I can't personally afford to spend that kind of money, but if you can then by all means do whatever makes you the most happy with it.

TimboKhan
November 24, 2007, 05:10 AM
It's whoevers money, and they can spend it how they choose, but, by the same token, it's not good to support overcharging for trends. We all pay for that in the end. Trust me, if Les Baer could sell 6000 guns at $5000.00 apiece, not only would there be a whole ton of $5000.00 pistols, but the average price of pistols would go up. Why sell a $1000.00 gun if, in comparison, it looks like a great deal at $1500.00?

To my mind, the 1911 is basically a $750.00 gun, at best. You can hem and haw all you want, but there isn't a modification out there that justifies more money than that, at least in my opinion. Now, if you want to spend more, go ahead. It's your money, and what do I care? Just keep in mind that a fool and his money are soon parted, and guns are no different than anything else: There are a lot of fools waiting in line to part with their money.

45auto
November 24, 2007, 08:09 AM
Here's what a $1500-$2,000 1911 might(should) have that your Springfield Mil-spec doesn't have:

Much better sights.
A fitted, blended beavertail so you don't cut your hand on the multiple, sharp frame tangs or get hammer bite.
An extended thumb safety, if you need it or want it.
High quality "internals" that will give you a better trigger pull, but more importantly last much longer without malfunction. Hand-fitted so they work in your frame...over many tens of thousands of rounds!
Probably a higher quality barrel, but definitely fitted for better accuracy and durability, again over many tens of thousands of rounds.
Grip surface treatment...checkering.
Overall, a fitted handgun done by a "skilled" 1911 "smith" compared to a production line 1911. That will/should get you increased reliability and durability.

The Springfield Mil-spec is a "known" high quality base gun for custom 1911 smiths to use for competition guns, bullseye and "hard-use" guns...I hate that term. ;) You also have Springfield's "excellent" custom shop that will do what you want. Consider spending money on the gun you have.

So I decide what you want/need and be realistic about how your going to use it and how many rounds you might shoot through it. Meaning, if you don't care about 1" accuracy...you just save yourself about $250. ;) Don't bother having the slide/frame tightened up either...save another $100.

I agree that most everything beyond $2,000 is cosmetic or specialized for a particular sport or use...IMHO.

nona
November 24, 2007, 09:45 AM
What's wrong with your Mil Spec

I haven't read all the replies, but I saw this come several times so I'll answer it now then read the rest.

My hand gets really tired shooting the Mil-Spec. After 50 rounds, I have trouble squeezing the trigger without my hand shaking. I don't get bit by the hammer, but the safety tang beats up the web of my hand pretty bad. I don't mean nicks, cuts, and blisters, I mean a deep bruise I still feel many days later. I think that's it. Also, I believe the arched mainspring housing isn't helping. I'm used to shooting 150-200 rounds through an USP40 so I don't think it's a lack of "hand stamina". (When I read that "ooo, my hand hurts!" part, I sound like a wuss. That's not it, I've shot other 1911 pattern guns, and all sorts of thins before, this is consistently a different experience).

Last time I went to the range, I shot 100 rounds through the Mil-Spec, trying to figure out a comfortable grip. The last 50 shot were hard, shaky, and erratic. My hand was beat. I immediately went out and rented something from the range (Kimber TLE II). My hand was tired, but I managed to shoot it well and had a smile on my face again after a few magazines all the way through the end of two boxes. I don't what's causing the problem in the Mil-Spec for me, but I can't deny the difference.

bluetopper
November 24, 2007, 09:47 AM
Try a Dan Wesson Pointman 1911. They are absolutely the best 1911 for the money with all the custom features. And you'll have quite a bit of change after you plop down a thousand bucks.

76shuvlinoff
November 24, 2007, 09:52 AM
My first 1911 is a 3.5" Springfield UltraCompact bought well used and I had to change out the extractor due to stovepiping. I got it with ambi safety,Hogue grips, ported barrel.

My 2nd is a box stock 5" Kimber Raptor II, still tight as all hell but zero issues at approx 500 rds. Cost me well over double what I paid for the used Springer but I don't feel it was overboard. When I lay out the XD40, the Springer Ultracompact .45 and the Kimber on the bench in the backyard.... my wife picks up the Kimber :D.

I much prefer shooting the 5" weapon and this has nothing to do with the manufacturer. It's just a better configuration for me than the 3.5".

If someone else can pay $3K for a .45. I say good for them. Some folks like high end cars too, doesn't hurt my feelings.

AndyC
November 24, 2007, 09:58 AM
What you currently have is an excellent base gun. If your hand is getting beaten-up, have a 'smith change out the grip-safety to something more comfortable eg beavertail and get a flat mainspring-housing.

It's a slippery slope, though - next come Novak sights, competition trigger, extended safety... ;)

I don't care about 2" groups at 50 yards, personally - my major requirement is that it is stone-cold reliable through thick and thin.

Ringer
November 24, 2007, 10:22 AM
I really like the Kimber Tactical for about $1000 though I wish it wasn't named "tacti-cool".

I didn't really like the "Tactical" name either but I liked the gun so I bought it. It's my only full size 1911 so I can't speak to comparison. I can say that I enjoy shooting the Kimber. It's a pleasure to shoot, comfort wise. It is very accurate for me and has never missed a beat with regard to reliability.

dtown240
November 24, 2007, 02:34 PM
All I can tell you is what I know..

A friend of mine has an Ed Brown. The first shot of the first time he let me shoot it, I hit the X at about 15 yards. All I could say was "WOW, this is NICE!!!!"

Is it expensive? Yes. Is it accurate? Yes. Is it worth it? Depends on YOUR pocketbook and propensity to have something that high speed low drag. I'm not about to take out a loan to buy one...but if someone gifted one to me, you can be sure I wouldn't EVER consider trading it for anything else.

Also consider what do you want to DO with it? Carrying it everyday will allow it to get holster wear, and in the event you EVER have to use it for defensive purposes, the LEO's are going to hang onto it while the investigation occurs. That's a lot of money to have wrapped up in an evidence locker.

BigO01
November 24, 2007, 03:09 PM
Nona it sounds to me like your Springfield simply has a excessive trigger pull weight and the grip safety just doesn't fit you well .

On 1911.org there are directions for the "poor mans triiger job" which is pretty much removing any rough spots from the internal trigger components .

I can tell you from expierence that two parts with no rough spots rubbing together vs with rough spots is a world apart when it comes to a good trigger pull .

You have a few routes you can go here , you can try the "Poor mans trigger job" , you can buy a complete ready to drop in trigger replacement kit as made by Cylinder N Slide , Nowlin and Yost and use it to replace the parts the gun now has or turn it over to a good "Smith for a trigger job .

If you're up to the work yourself replace the Grip safety with a nice Semi drop in Wilson beavertail .

I wouldn't give up on the Springfield as you have a solid gun that mearly has some problems that can easily and fairly cheaply be fixed .

If the "Poor Mans Trigger Job" and say the Wilsom beavertail does the trick you will be out less than $60 with shipping and getting Wet/Dry for the trigger job and a medium wetstone which you may already own .

Even if you go the gunsmith route a trigger job shouldn't be more than $100 and have them install a new Grip safety while they're at it , tops out of pocket should be less than $200 .

Almost forgot Pachmyr makes a rubber covered grip safety that should greatly reduce the beating your hand is geting also , perhaps the rubber covered safety combined with some Pachmyr wrap around grips would make shooting the Springer much more pleasant .

LanEvo`
November 24, 2007, 03:34 PM
My feeling is that if I'm going to spend a fat wad of cash on a 1911, I'd want it to be exactly what I want. To me, that means a genuine custom pistol. In other words, one made to my specs by a trusted gunsmith.

I'd buy an $600-800 Springfield or Colt and give John Harrison a check for $1200-$1400 before I'd drop $2000 on a factory "custom."

Emre

varoadking
November 24, 2007, 03:53 PM
I'd buy an $600-800 Springfield or Colt and give John Harrison a check for $1200-$1400 before I'd drop $2000 on a factory "custom."


That ought to be about right for a down payment to Harrison for exactly what I'd want.

varoadking
November 24, 2007, 04:06 PM
What does a $2000 1911 have that a $1000 one doesn't?

My interest...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v22/varoadking/yo-bo45.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v22/varoadking/YoBo.jpg

Kimber1911_06238
November 24, 2007, 04:11 PM
I've shot ed brown and les baer 1911's. The triggers were a little bit smoother than my kimber, but definitely not $1000 smoother. Accuracy was similar, maybe slight edge to the higher end guns, but not by very much at all.

I'll stick with my Kimbers

Rinspeed
November 24, 2007, 04:36 PM
I've shot ed brown and les baer 1911's. The triggers were a little bit smoother than my kimber, but definitely not $1000 smoother. Accuracy was similar, maybe slight edge to the higher end guns, but not by very much at all.

I'll stick with my Kimbers


I really like Kimbers but to me it's rather foolish to spend $1000 on a Kimber when you can buy a Baer PII for $1400 and change. Just for the quality of all the parts, not to mention all the hand fitting that goes into one, and it's a no brainer.

schmeky
November 24, 2007, 04:59 PM
Originally posted by Nona = I immediately went out and rented something from the range (Kimber TLE II). My hand was tired, but I managed to shoot it well and had a smile on my face again after a few magazines all the way through the end of two boxes.

There's your answer. I have a Kimber Classic Custom and it is may favorite 1911 hands down. Buy a TLE II and I believe you're dilema will be solved and you'll find 1911 happiness.

nona
November 24, 2007, 05:51 PM
There's your answer. I have a Kimber Classic Custom and it is may favorite 1911 hands down. Buy a TLE II and I believe you're dilema will be solved and you'll find 1911 happiness.

Well, sort of. I rented the TLE II because that's what they had. I know there are more guns out there than I can rent at my local ranges.

About the $1400 Les Baer gun. I'm looking for that kind of advice. If I can get a lot more value out of $400 more, I'll spend it.

hank327
November 24, 2007, 07:05 PM
Your Springfield is an excellent basic 1911. Send it to a good gunsmith and have them replace the grip safety with a beaver tail grip safety, do a trigger job and perhaps install a set of high visibilty sights. Your Springer will then be much more comfortable to shoot and you will have saved the money you would be out of selling it and buying a new high dollar pistol. Use the money you are willing to spend on a new 1911 to fix up your old one.

robctwo
November 24, 2007, 10:23 PM
I bought a Springfield Black Stainless Loaded for my first 1911. Nice gun, very heavy trigger. I had a few dollars available for fun and found an Ed Brown Executive target used like new in box for about $2,000. Great gun. Worth twice as much? Sure. I had been looking for a Les Baer PII. found one used with the 1 1/2" guarantee. It came with the factory speed mag well. I paid around $1,700 for it. Not a steal, but the gun wasn't even broken in very well. I've put thousands of rounds through them since purchase, almost all reloads.

For me the Baer PII with just the factory 3" at 50 yard guarantee would have been accurate enough. The Brown and the Baer are rock solid reliable. I shoot with a bunch of guys who have various levels of 1911s. Everyone who shoots these two guns is impressed with the way they feel and shoot. A couple of the guys claim I'm cheating at the bowling pin shoots. If I had to sacrifice necessities to get a high end .45 I'd stick with a 9mm or .22. I spend way more on ammo for my guns even reloading than I spend on the guns.

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e186/robctwo/IMG_2786.jpg

HOLYROLLER
November 24, 2007, 10:39 PM
Someone's name on the side or another 1911 for your opposite hand.

Rinspeed
November 24, 2007, 11:05 PM
or another 1911 for your opposite hand.



Hopefully they won't jam at the same time. ;)

Nomad, 2nd
November 24, 2007, 11:05 PM
I had a list of things I wanted on my next 1911... Basically a SS Kimber Warrior.
(I wanted the rail so that I could slap a light on my carry gun at night.)
-I travel alot.

I was looking at $3K from Les Bare...

I figured I couldn't shoot well enough yet to tell the difference and decided to spend the ~$2K difference on ammo.

So I Bought a $1100 Kimber... And it's between 2-3 inches at 25 (And that's in MY hands, not a machine rest)

It's also been more reliable than my Glock 19:D

I done right.

Geno
November 24, 2007, 11:07 PM
I will never spend $2,000.00+ on a 1911 again. No, never, huh-uh! My "cheap" $700.00 to $900.00 1911s have worked better by far. JMHO.

Doc2005

jaholder1971
November 24, 2007, 11:15 PM
More "Oooh's" and "Ahhh's" at the range
Less money on other guns
A really angry wife

crankshop1000
November 25, 2007, 08:54 AM
Spend the extra $1-2K. That will ensure that you will need to explain to all your puzzled friends how much smarter than they are with your purchase.Better than they are really.Gun snob zone.Just keep your mouth shut when the guy in the next lane outscores you with his $ 500 Springer.

Baldy518
November 25, 2007, 10:12 AM
I agree somewhat with what HOLYROLLER said. "Someone's name on the side or another 1911 for your opposite hand". I'll add "Bragging' Rights".
I do not have any "expensive" handguns. I have only bought guns for self defense, so far. I have no interest in tight groups at 25 or 50 yards. My HK's can stay on a 8.5" x 11" sheet of paper at self defense distances, drawn from a holster and quick sight acquisition, so that is all I need.
Even what some have said about slower follow-up shots do not matter in self-defense. If your first shot is at center-mass, and your second shot is a bit higher, it will still be on the bad guy.
I guess you have to decide what your purpose is with the gun. Self Defense, IDPA, USPSA, Bullseye, etc.
The only 1911 style pistol I have is a Para Ordnance P14-45 LDA, which I call "1911 Style", because some 1911 purists poo-poo it as not being a "real" 1911 because its DA trigger. I don't care - I like it. The trigger is closer to what I am accustomed to shooting: All the rest of my guns are HK's and 1 Glock.
There is a Bullseye Pistol Team at my local Sportsman's Club. Many, if not all use 1911 for the .45 caliber portion of the Bullseye Matches. They range from out-of-the-box stock 1911 to $5000.00 customized 1911. One guy told me he took a Springfield Mil-Spec, which is what he trained with in the U.S. Army, and had his gunsmith customize it. When finished, it cost about $5000.00 total. Then he bought another Springfield Mil-Spec and had the exact same work done on it, so he has a spare, in case of malfunctions. That is, in case you can't add, $10K to compete in a hobby, with no cash prizes! He says if he waits too long before cleaning, the guns start having problems, since the tolerances are so tight. These guys shoot at 50 yards one handed, most with open sights!
The question remains: What do you want the gun for?
I would recommend that you take the Mil-Spec and just have a little gunsmith work done on it.
If you want near-absolute reliability, stick with your USP.
Also, try wearing gloves when you shoot, and your hand won't get beat up, or even try a Band-Aid on the spot that gets beat up.

Hawk
November 25, 2007, 10:28 AM
Reading about Kimber type II part failures and shattering safeties is one thing, and not much of a thing. However, should it ever happen to you personally it elevates the incident well beyond "anecdote" or "intr4w3b chatter" - it suddenly becomes true fact together with whatever factory response is experienced.

Hence, the idea of "getting a lot for a little" via Kimber just flat doesn't work for me.

I have a Springfield loaded that's not given me grief but try this experiment:

Download SA's "custom shop" pdf file. They get around 1,800.00 for turning their standard model into a "Professional" and outline what they do - if none of those things mean anything to you, don't buy it. IMHO it'd be foolish in the extreme to buy something one doesn't consider in any way "significant". However, if you do consider the stuff "significant" then it might prove a reasonable purchase.

What one might consider "insignificant" another might consider essential.

A lot of what exists at the high end is essentially art - I don't personally like to pay any extra for stuff like 40lpi checkering on the back end of a slide but there are some that enjoy such things. More power to 'em.

robctwo
November 25, 2007, 11:12 AM
Here is another place to go to read lots of posts on various makes of 1911s
http://www.1911forum.com/forums/

It's also a lot of fun to browse the on line auctions at
http://www.gunsamerica.com/
http://www.gunbroker.com/auction/BrowseShowcase.asp?Page=1&Items=50

Your original post was looking for reliability. I routinely will run 500 reloaded rounds through my Baer or Brown at a range session. I use a lot of 200 gr SWC, some ball, and some RN lead. I have intentionally not cleaned between range sessions to see when I would develop a problem. At around 1,500 to 2,000 rounds the feed ramps get crudded up enough to start to cause feeding problems.

In all fairness, once the extractor problem was fixed on my Springer loaded it runs that long as well. I did a trigger job on the Springer and put all Ed Brown parts in it. Got down to a 3 1/2 to 4 pound break. Very nice now.

Here's another problem for you. Once you get a $1,400 Baer, will you need a $2,400 Brown/Wilson/Nighthawk? And if you get one of those, will you need a $3,000 Supergrade or Classic Custom? That's the question I'm dealing with right now.

GRIZ22
November 25, 2007, 11:22 AM
Do I really care about 1" tighter group at 25 yards for an extra 1K? I do care about it being reliable.

$1000 isn't going to necessarily buy more reliability.

I believe the arched mainspring housing isn't helping.

Buy a flat mainspring housing.

I immediately went out and rented something from the range (Kimber TLE II). My hand was tired, but I managed to shoot it well and had a smile on my face again after a few magazines all the way through the end of two boxes.

What was different with the Kimber? Flat mainspring housing? Extended grip safety? I would do these things (yourself) before a trigger job (for a pistolsmith). A trigger job is not the answer to all problems especially what you relate here. A 5-6 pound trigger in a combat gun is fine. It seems like if you are slightly handy you can make your Springfield comfortable and have 8 or 9 hundred dollars for other endeavors.

1911 guy
November 25, 2007, 11:34 AM
If you want to kep in 1911 pistols, get a Smith & Alexander beavertail grip safety, flat mainspring housing, Ed Brown or Wilson Combat ignition parts (hammer, sear, disconnector and trigger) and pay a 'smith a little money to fit them.

Rinspeed
November 25, 2007, 11:43 AM
Well, sort of. I rented the TLE II because that's what they had. I know there are more guns out there than I can rent at my local ranges.

About the $1400 Les Baer gun. I'm looking for that kind of advice. If I can get a lot more value out of $400 more, I'll spend it.



Here is a nice thread about a Baer TRS with a bunch of rounds through it. I saw a couple very similar ones when I was trying to decide which 1911 I wanted. There's much more to it than bragging rights or accuracy or being a snob. I've laughed at a couple of responses here in this thread but I guess my thinking is a little different.




http://www.1911forum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=53832

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