[fastattack]

I got into it with my neighbor about a local newspaper article in which the reporter described a bust where the cops found "hundreds of rounds of LIVE ammunition" in a guys house. I foolishly considered myself criminal for a split second since I too have hundreds of rounds of live ammo. How awful! This is an example of blatant media bias, which my neighbor disagreed with. He thought the term was perfectly acceptable. I say the word "live" was unneeded and inflammatory. My question to you is: What is ammo if it isn't "live"? I don't count dummy rounds, since I don't think they are ammo. Am I overly sensitive?

[General Geoff]

when someone says "live ammunition," I think of explosive/incendiary ordnance.

[Grayrock]

Dead. Yes.

[thexrayboy]

Live ammo=fun ( and possible useful tool)

Non live ammo=A waste of metallic resources.

[GlowinPontiac]

Referring to ammunition that way is like calling a car LIVE and dangerous because it has gas in the tank.

If ammo is that dangerous by itself then just about everyone on this site must be in grave danger due to the hundreds or thousands of rounds of LIVE ammo in our houses.

[Ragnar Danneskjold]

This is kinda like how they cordon of a 2 block radius and evacuate businesses and school when they find 1 unfired .22lr round on the ground.

[Cougfan2]

Live ammo! Oof Da'!!! What do you think they'll want to do about ZOMBIE AMMO!!! :neener:

[Mr White]

Live ammo! Oof Da'!!! What do you think they'll want to do about ZOMBIE AMMO!!! Oh, you mean the special undead ammo. :D

But yeah, I agree, the term 'live ammo' sounds like a term used by a biased reporter to make it sound more dangerous. Particularly when they combine if with a quantity in an attempt to shock the reader.

I always laugh at such reporting, "Over one hundred rounds of high-powered rifle ammunition were found in the home" My first thought is always a feeling of pity for the poor guy for being so low on ammo.

Of course, there was that guy awhile back who had over 1M rounds of ammo in his home. I felt nothing but respect for that guy.

[brigadier]

I would have had to see the report. Sounds like casual talk to me. I think most of us gun guys are growing paranoid of gun grabber propaganda that we too tend to over react to things.

[poet]

You know the Media, they will sensationalize an ice cube for their best interests.

[WeedWhacker]

"Hundreds"? Not a very avid shooter, I take it.

[Noxx]

My thoughts exactly Weed. God forbid they ever have to clean out my garage, they'll probably call the Nat'l Guard.

[armoredman]

Thousands indicate a firearms enthusiast. Hundreds indicate a hobbyist, or like me, components not yet assembled...

[alucard0822]

Live ammo denotes ammunition designed to fire a projectile.

not live-, or training/dummy ammo, can be anything from blanks, to snap caps, even cartridges loaded with paintballs, or plastic pellets, even safety flags designed for training and to prevent accidents.

Even though sensationalized, "hundreds of rounds of live ammo" is not that bad compared to the norm for reporters. "Assault weapons" "sniper rifle" "armor peircing" "spray and pray" and so on.

Thousands indicate a firearms enthusiast. Hundreds indicate a hobbyist, or like me, components not yet assembled

I myself have tens of thousands of rounds of POTENTIAL and LIVE ammo. kinda makes you wonder what they would call the few boxes of 50 and 44 cal balls for my BP guns.

[joab]

What is ammo if it isn't "live"?
A fond memory
kinda makes you wonder what they would call the few boxes of 50 and 44 cal balls for my BP guns.Bomb making components

[Bruce333]

I would have had to see the report. Sounds like casual talk to me.Agreed.

Reporters are not experts on the subjects they are reporting on. The majority of the time the inaccuracies we find are nothing more than ignorance.

[DMK]

I probably take more to the range with me than that guy had. :rolleyes:

Four boxes of 38 special FMJ is "hundreds of live rounds". Four value packs of 22LR is "thousands of live rounds"

[fastattack]

Here a link to the story. I should have included it.
http://www.avpress.com/n/22/1122_s8.hts
Second to last paragraph.
Granted, these guys are thugs, but I object to the emotional wording. I'm gonna write the paper. We need to push back on these reporters.

[Walkalong]

Non live ammo=A waste of metallic resources
Like it.
--------

If an anti gun news rag is involved and they do find a reasonable amount of ammo in your home they are going to paint you like a crazy man with ZILLIONS OF ROUNDS OF LIVE AMMO, etc, etc.


Two boxes of .22 to us is a thousand rounds. Two boxes to them is 100 and way too much at that. If they were describing what I have in my house, as well as many of us, they could make it sound terrible to the uninformed non shooter or even casual shooters, much less those scared of guns.

[Owens]

Live: AKA unfired
Not live: empty casing or otherwise not in a ready to fire condition.
Nothing more than that.

[230RN]

Actually, I'm beginning to think that much of that hype is due to the police trying to sensationalize their busts. And the reporter is just sucking it in and reporting what the police said.

Not cop-bashing, but I hate it when they do that. They'll lay out four or five firearms on a table for a photo-op and call it an "arsenal."

They can find a can of solvent acetone in amongst your painting materials and refer to it as fire "accelerants" or "incemdiary materials." Plural, if they also find some wood alcohol in with the paint stuff, too.

I betcha if you go through your own house with a jaundiced eye, you can find a host of things, which, if placed in the wrong light, can be scarifying.

Powder scale = drug manufacturing equipment.

Plumbing junk = bomb-making material.

On my bookshelf is a book entitled "Nazi Victory," which describes the German attack on Crete in WWII. Purely historical, and written by a British historian. But once glance at the title and... "Nazi Propaganda!" (It was the only successful German paratrooper attack, and they paid dearly for it.)

I'm sure you get the point.

I'm sure it can be amusing to go through your house and find many such things that can be exploited for the "scare" factor.

I'd be amused to see what you folks can come up with in your own homes which can be "scarifying."

Hmmm... a box of primers... "explosive intitiators!"

Dirty diapers and kitty litter boxes as "poison gas generators" will count one point each.

[MD_Willington]

You're right it is just Propaganda...

[BobMcG]

You're right it is just Propaganda...

That's exactly what it is.

OK, it's true, you can't expect all news writers/reporters to be knowledgeable about our firearms hobby and because of that you can plead ignorant for them. However, the one thing they are knowledgeable about is in the selection and use of words to "spice up a report". To make it a bit more interesting and exciting to read, especially to a group of readers whom are just as ignorant about firearms as the writer. Besides, their editors don't like the dull and boring either. If they can "liven" a report up a little they will. If it's at any expense to gun owners and the writer just happens to be a bit of an anti, then all the better. They get to kill two birds with one stone.

[chris in va]

I think it's spillover from 'live munitions' such as grenades. They just don't know that ammunition is just ammo, not live or dead like old artillery shells can be.

[Soybomb]

If you're not a shooter hundreds of rounds sounds like a ton of ammo. When you are a shooter and see its a $9 brick of .22 it becomes far less impressive.

[Im283]

from dictionary.com

aresenal - 3. a collection or supply of weapons or munitions.

[Kimber1911_06238]

hundreds of rounds? OH DEAR GOD!!!

Hope they don't look at my house.

[BigO01]

Hundreds of rounds wont even get me and my sons by more than a couple of hours at the range .

[Lamb of Gun]

Hundreds! he said HUNDREDS!!! Only someone stockpiling for a school shooting, crime spree or crazy delusional government takeover would be stockpiling HUNDREDS of rounds of ammunition.

That's atleast 200$ worth of unstable-ready-to-kill-supersonic-childkilling-hellborn-armageddon-bringing-lead-bullets-of-death!!!

May God... Help... Us... ALL

[230RN]

aresenal - 3. a collection or supply of weapons or munitions.

Once again we are dealing with connotative versus denotative meanings. Consider the relative semantic impacts of:

1. "He had a collection of firearms."

2. "He had an arsenal of guns."

Denotatively identical.

Connotatively different.


There's even a sematic loading in using the term "methyl alcohol" versus "wood acohol."

I've touched on this concept of semantic loadings before and there seem to be two camps. One seems to think that the dictionary definitions comprise the whole "meaning" of a word. Others are sensitive to the connotative meanings as well.

For my part, I think we should become a little more sensitized to the use of semantic loadings in anti-firearms propaganda.

And perhaps start becoming expert in the use of semantic loadings.

Because, friends, we are in a propaganda war.

[2Lman]

More harmful things as defined by the media.

A box of Spear Gold Dot 9MM amunition - Specialized ammunition designed for police use.

[hopkin]

1. "He had a collection of firearms."

2. "He had an arsenal of guns."

Denotatively identical.

Connotatively different.

Same with calling someone's home a 'compound' because it has a fence around it. It casts the homeowner as a paranoid kook.

[yesit'sloaded]

At what point does ammunition become a live round? Is it a gun owners right to terminate the ammunition's life before it exits the loading press? If a bullet and casing are present is it ammo, or does it require the loading of powder and crimping? Does life begin at resizing?

[v35]

^^^ Rotflmao

[iamkris]

Only "hundreds"...they are right...that is a crime.

I've only got around 10,000 rounds in my gun room and wish I had more

[RoadkingLarry]

Does life begin at resizing?

Only if the step also includeds decapping:rolleyes:

[Liko81]

What exactly is ammunition if it is not live? It's empty brass or dummy rounds.

If you have more than 4 50-round boxes of plinking ammo, the news can say you have "hundreds of rounds" and be technically correct. In fact, if you only had 3 boxes the correction may not even be page-six worthy. The figure sounds impressive; if the guy had 10 loaded magazines (150 rounds in my pistol) and went postal, he could kill a lot of people before he was stopped. However, if it's in a box it takes more than a whim to make it useable (that is, loading it into mags). As I've said before (maybe not here), 100 rounds sounds like a lot until you've fed all of it 15 rounds at a time through your Glock in about 45 minutes (and that's slow), but no non-gun owner really seems to realize how little 100 rounds actually is.

I compare it to paintball. Nobody except a professional paintball player would ever understand the need to shoot an entire case (2000 balls) in a single 15-minute game. I use nowhere near that much; usually I use a case and a half in 6 hours of play, but that's still 3000 rounds and about $120, and I still get wierd looks from some other players when I bring out the 6-tube harness (6x140 rounds + 200 in the hopper = 1040 rounds)... until they run out of paint in the middle of their second game and have to skip the next one to reload. Those with electronic double triggers can cycle up to 15 rounds per SECOND; that kind of paint use is when you start seeing 2, 3, and 4-case days, and the pro players say it's absolutely necessary as suppressive fire - if you're not firing at your opponent, he can poke out and fire at you.

[ZeSpectre]

Ah, I remember a similar article talking about how the guy had "over a thousand live bullets" in his house.... and later it was discovered that he had just that...bullets.

Black powder musket balls to be precise :scrutiny:

[siglite]

I myself have tens of thousands of rounds of POTENTIAL and LIVE ammo. kinda makes you wonder what they would call the few boxes of 50 and 44 cal balls for my BP guns.

C'mon... You know how the media would report your stash of 50BMG projectiles. :rolleyes:

[SEMO Shooter]

A reporter saying "Live Ammo" to me is comparable to them saying "Dead Body". Have they ever reported finding a "Live Body"?

[unspellable]

I have a number of lead balls for my cap & ball revolver. That's ammo, but it's not live ammo. But then it's lead, I'm harboring an environmental hazard. Don't let the word get around.

[SoCalShooter]

"hundreds of rounds of LIVE ammunition"

I have a 40mm can of ammo filled to the brim with practice .22LR and its live :)

[MT GUNNY]

you should have took him to you house and showed him your ammo pile.

[Poper]

Does life begin at resizing?

Only if the step also includeds decapping

Actually Life begins upon Priming! :D:evil::D

Poper

[yesit'sloaded]

A reporter saying "Live Ammo" to me is comparable to them saying "Dead Body". Have they ever reported finding a "Live Body"? I'm almost in the mood to make a Habeas Corpus joke. Exams are almost here and my humor is coming out in bizarre ways. Here's another one. Is it ethical to disassemble a round so that it's parts can be used to repair older rounds that have worn out parts. Stem bullets are an important issue these days.

[Walkalong]

Is it ethical to disassemble a round so that it's parts can be used to repair older rounds that have worn out parts.
But you would be taking a life. :neener:

Can you feel the thread veer? Yea, there it went again.

[I LIKE IT!]

"hundreds of rounds, he must not be an avid shooter"

Or maybe he shoots more than he keeps laying around at home. You can look at it both ways.:neener:

[Sharps-shooter]

maybe they meant whole cartridges, not just musket balls. Half a brick of .22 lr is "hundreds of rounds of live ammunition", though. I have at least that in my car.

[Trebor]

I've touched on this concept of semantic loadings before and there seem to be two camps. One seems to think that the dictionary definitions comprise the whole "meaning" of a word. Others are sensitive to the connotative meanings as well.

Why don't you start a thread specifically on the topic of semantic loadings and how they are used in the firearms debate?

We need more info on how we can counter the anti's use of this tactic and employ the same ideas into our own message.

I have some thoughts on the subject, but I suspect they are not as well developed as yours and I think it would be an interesting and productive conversation.

I think "Activism" would be the best forum myself.

[fastattack]

Well, I received a response from the newspaper editor today and he agreed with me, that the phase was redundant, but defended the reporter and said that these are words the cops use (who are gun smart). He will pass this on to the copy desk. Maybe in some small way, I can make a difference. If we all do this, things might change!

[The Annoyed Man]

As far as I can tell, there is only one kind of ammunition, and that is "LIVE" ammunition. The only other alternatives are either unassembled ammunition components, or spent ammunition components - neither of which qualify as ammunition.

Yes, the term is inflammatory, but it also betrays the stupidity of the writer.

[Pigspitter]

Live rounds kinda scare me....espescially when they have the legs and mouths and all.