Firefighters Can Search Your House Without a Warrant


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Pete409
November 24, 2007, 02:48 PM
Not only can the police search your house without a warrant, now the firefighters can too. It's all being done under the guise of protecting us from terrorism.

If they find certain things such as guns, ammunition, etc, you may get your butt hauled off to jail and perhaps end up in court trying to prove that you are not a terrorist.

That ammo you have stockpiled, that gunpowder you use for reloading, those evil looking "assault weapons" you have in your house....... all these things could get your a$$ hauled off to jail if some firefighter happens to see them while inspecting your house. Of course, I have no idea why they would be inspecting your house in the first place, but I'm sure they could think up some excuse. Since they don't need a search warrant, just about any old excuse will do.

Here is a link to the story.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071123/ap_on_re_us/firefighters_terrorism

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Mainsail
November 24, 2007, 03:19 PM
Since the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, Americans have given up some of their privacy rights in an effort to prevent future strikes.
To have ‘given up’ something implies permission was requested and granted. Nobody asked me anything. This arrogant statement only further displays how out of touch most journalists are with natural rights.

Oohrah
November 24, 2007, 03:36 PM
Maybe this has not hit the west coast yet, but no, a firefighter can not
go into a home at will! In fact, only if arson is suspected, can an invest-
igation be triggered. Signed permission to look might be a start. Once
a fire that looks suspect, the scene is left, there can not be a return.
Evidence must be secured until a fire investigater arrives and takes over
the scene as a possible criminal investigation. Things out of the ordinary
may be observed, but the investigation is for the source of fire that may
or may not include unusual fire behavior. Businesses or Public use environ-
ment come under NBFU law. Thhere is some talk of Homeland Security
giving information to heads of Fire Agencies and training for fire fighters to
observe and report unusual conditions. Many others in different levels of
HS such as Coast Guard, Civil Air Patrol have some in volvement. :D

Chipperman
November 24, 2007, 03:36 PM
When going to private residences, for example, they are told to be alert for a person who is hostile, uncooperative or expressing hate or discontent with the United States; unusual chemicals or other materials that seem out of place; ammunition, firearms or weapons boxes; surveillance equipment; still and video cameras; night-vision goggles; maps, photos, blueprints; police manuals, training manuals, flight manuals; and little or no furniture other than a bed or mattress.

Let's see:
1. Expressing hate of the U.S.. Well my copies of EFAD and UC should suffice.
2. Unusual Chemicals.. Unusual for whom?
3. Ammo and guns, check
4. Surveillance equip.. Hmm, how about a microphone?
5. Still and video cameras, check
6. NVGs-- Guess I'm missing that one
7. Maps and photos, duh
etc.



Many of these things would be in ANY American's home. What's the threshold of suspicion? If they just don't like the looks of a person, they can report them. Easy harrassment tool.

Cannonball888
November 24, 2007, 03:44 PM
1. hostile. Well, if you're in my house without a warrant I might be.
2. discontent with the US (government) Yep.
3. chemicals out of place. (Drano in the living room?)
4. ammunition, firearms, weapons boxes. Yep
5. surveillance equipment. Does a webcam count?
6. Still and video cameras. Yep.
7. NVGs. Do binocs and a flashlight count?
8. Maps and photos. I've also got MapQuest, GoogleEarth, and a printer!

alucard0822
November 24, 2007, 03:51 PM
When going to private residences, for example, they are told to be alert for a person who is hostile, uncooperative or expressing hate or discontent with the United States; unusual chemicals or other materials that seem out of place; ammunition, firearms or weapons boxes; surveillance equipment; still and video cameras; night-vision goggles; maps, photos, blueprints; police manuals, training manuals, flight manuals; and little or no furniture other than a bed or mattress.

AHH, fond memories of college, they are missing "stockpiled cases of oodles of noodles" and "large numbers of empty beverage containers strewn about"

Since the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, Americans have given up some of their privacy rights in an effort to prevent future strikes.

what was the reason those in washington always tell us why we were attacked? oh yea, the terrorists hate our freedom, guess we showed them whose boss.

Bad Company
November 24, 2007, 03:52 PM
the firefighters dont give a ****, trust me

Outlaws
November 24, 2007, 04:05 PM
To have ‘given up’ something implies permission was requested and granted. Nobody asked me anything. This arrogant statement only further displays how out of touch most journalists are with natural rights.

Well we still have elected "representatives" who people voted for. Until the masses quit voting for the lesser of two evils, like it or not, we did grant that permission.

OH25shooter
November 24, 2007, 05:28 PM
Man, they got your goat. This is America...it's written by a reporter...oh my...there's your first clue. Like the other poster stated, firefighters don't give a **** and most cops could care either. Common sense...HELLO!

plexreticle
November 24, 2007, 05:32 PM
I hope the firefighters search my house if I'm in there and it's burning.

Kimber1911_06238
November 24, 2007, 05:40 PM
I attended the University of CT from 2001-2005. When the police were looking for someone in the dorms, they would pull the firearm and wait at the door. If the person they wanted didn't appear, the firefighters would go check the rooms and make sure nobody was inside!!!

nothing new

Aguila Blanca
November 24, 2007, 05:51 PM
Once again, it is important to recognize that laws vary from state to state, and often within a state if cities are empowered to make their own rules. In my state, fire officials have ZERO legal authority to enter a private residence unless they are fighting a fire. If there is an apartment in a building that is the subject of a report of a potential fire hazard, the fire marshal must obtain an adminsitrative search warrant before he/she can set foot through the door. And unless the law has changed recently (and I'm pretty sure it has not), the administrative search warrant limits what they can look for to conditions related to the complaint.

As to the article:

When going to private residences, for example, they are told to be alert for a person who is hostile, uncooperative or expressing hate or discontent with the United States; unusual chemicals or other materials that seem out of place; ammunition, firearms or weapons boxes; surveillance equipment; still and video cameras; night-vision goggles; maps, photos, blueprints; police manuals, training manuals, flight manuals; and little or no furniture other than a bed or mattress.
I guess I'd fit the profile of a terrorist. Realistically, how many people or families today DON'T own a still camera and/or a video camera? How many people don't have maps in the house? Last I knew, owning firearms and ammunition was legal (except in NYC, Chicago and Washington, of course), so I hardly think that should be seen as an indication of a possible terrorist. Less universal, but the nature of my work means that I always have a pile of blueprints around. It's a PITA because they take up a lot of space, and they irritate my wife. But they don't mean that I'm a terrorist, they mean I'm in a profession that works with blueprints.

As usual, our all-knowing government is approaching a complex problem with a typically overly simplistic and unreasonably heavy-handed "solution." Thereby demonstrating once again that they really haven't got a clue how to deal with terrorism, but they have to do something to perpetuate the sham that they are protecting us.

Rich K
November 24, 2007, 06:02 PM
the firefighters dont give a ****, trust me

Neither do the Paramedics, trust me.

Noxx
November 24, 2007, 07:21 PM
Jesus.

I'm a proud american, but be assured, I have NOTHING but discontent for the united states at this time. Arrest me I guess.

Owens
November 24, 2007, 07:45 PM
Notice the statement "...are better prepared when they respond to emergency calls."
Could be wrong, but I don't think there's too much to this.

Wait....I hear the firetrucks coming!:eek:

elrod
November 24, 2007, 07:58 PM
"We're there to help people, and by discovering these types of events, we're helping people", said New York City Fire Chief Salvatore Cassano.

Sound familar? Good ol' government boys. Always helping.:barf:

To quote Col. Potter of MASH fame, "Horse hockey!"
With friends like that, we sho' don't need no enemies!:fire:

Mustanger1
November 24, 2007, 08:00 PM
Bad Company states "Firefighters don't gave a ----" Would Bad Company be so kind as to tell me how he arrived at this conclusion. Must be many thousands of firefighters in the US is he speaking for all of them??????

JohnBT
November 24, 2007, 08:01 PM
So the consensus vote is: NO FAIR LOOKING FOR TERRORISTS.

BTW, I'm still on the lookout for bad guys, aren't you?

John

Im283
November 24, 2007, 08:04 PM
I think that the firefighters being instructed to look for "items" is just a way for an administrator to cover their butts. God forbid a fireman or crew of them has a real reason to be in a residence and then later it is found out the resident was a terrorist and bomb making supplies, maps, etc were in the dwelling.

Personally this does not fire ( pun ) me up very much.

Rich K
November 24, 2007, 10:25 PM
Mustanger when fire fighters and/or paramedics show up at your house, they don't care what is laying around unless it could cause them some kind of harm. THeir primary reason for being there is to help you or your family with a medical, or to put out the fire.Most of us don't care one whit what you read or own.

Warbow
November 25, 2007, 12:06 AM
Mustanger when fire fighters and/or paramedics show up at your house, they don't care what is laying around unless it could cause them some kind of harm. THeir primary reason for being there is to help you or your family with a medical, or to put out the fire.Most of us don't care one whit what you read or own

Oh! I thought you meant something else in your first post (that firefighters and medics don't care about the people they're helping).

With your second post I totally agree.

jimmyraythomason
November 25, 2007, 12:24 AM
Keeping their eyes open while on a call is NOT the same as "searching your house without a warrant". "Search" warrants can only be served by the appropriate LEO and must specify that which is being searched for. This story is a non event.

Megistopoda
November 25, 2007, 09:50 AM
The articles we occasionally see, nervously reporting "cache of weapons and ammunition found" often stem from the aftermath of fires. FD finds firearms and/or ammo, and then has to call police. Police come and haul everything off. If legal, they're returned. But the press goes on and on about the "terrorist" next door and you are forever branded as the "whacko."

And the predictable neighbor, when interviewed always says something to the effect... "he was such a nice guy...I never would have guessed he was preparing for WWIII....it makes me wonder who else on the block has such dangerous things in their house....I don't feel safe anymore."

And the moron's don't know that they are safer BECAUSE you are there...

hsiddall
November 25, 2007, 01:10 PM
The Firefighters could give 2 *@%#$. How do I know? Because I am one. And Ive posted here many a time and have owned several ars. In som instances I can get in trouble for looking at stuff too closely while in your home...

divemedic
November 25, 2007, 01:39 PM
As a firefighter, I can tell you that this is nothing new. We are trained in how to spot illegal stuff all the time.

Think about it- every year my fire engine responds to over 3,000 calls for assistance. That means we are in a corresponding number of homes, businesses, churches, synagogues, temples, mosques, etc. If we see a meth lab, a bomb factory, or a basement full of dead bodies, we report it. The only new training is that we are being taught how to spot them better.

There is nothing subversive or sinister about it. We can't jsut enter your home, we are there because you called us. We are responding to a call for medical assistance, or putting out a fire. We aren't staffing black helicopters, we aren't taking anyone's rights. As it always has been, if I am in your house as a firefighter, and I see a butcher shop in your kitchen where you are making a suit out of the skin of your 30 murder victims, I am going to report it.

I just had the class. They tell us how to spot a meth lab. If you see drano, denatured alcohol, sudafed, and ammonia- there may be a meth lab. Stuff like that. I got news for ya- the overwhelming majority of firefighters that I know are gun owners, as are most of the cops I know. We are not the enemy.

That's it. Nothing worth getting your panties in a bunch over. It isn't like firefighters are kicking in doors or anything.

Justin
November 25, 2007, 01:40 PM
BTW, I'm still on the lookout for bad guys, aren't you?

Yeah. Me and my good buddy Walter Mitty have a place we like to stake out and listen to the police scanner in case t3h turrists decide to spring their nefarious plot.

Werewolf
November 25, 2007, 01:41 PM
When going to private residences, for example, they are told to be alert for a person who is hostile, uncooperative or expressing hate or discontent with the United States;Uh huh...

Any real terrorist with 1/2 a brain would either keep his mouth shut or exhibit a normal level of friendliness, curiosity etc. In other words they'd behave as a subject not some whack job rambo wannabee looking for a reason to start something.

<shrugs - walks away shaking head marveling at the stupidity of some people>

DMK
November 25, 2007, 01:51 PM
I just had the class. They tell us how to spot a meth lab. If you see drano, denatured alcohol, sudafed, and ammonia- there may be a meth lab.Wow, I have three of those in my house, maybe all four if I have a cold. Someone in my house must be making meth when I'm not looking. I'd better call the DEA. :rolleyes:


"Since the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, Americans have given up some of their privacy rights in an effort to prevent future strikes."

what was the reason those in washington always tell us why we were attacked? oh yea, the terrorists hate our freedom, guess we showed them whose boss.Yep, couldn't agree more.

Autolycus
November 25, 2007, 05:55 PM
I think it is more innocent then many are percieving it to be.

divemedic
November 25, 2007, 09:09 PM
Wow, I have three of those in my house, maybe all four if I have a cold. Someone in my house must be making meth when I'm not looking. I'd better call the DEA.

Depends. Does it look like this?
http://lancaster.unl.edu/famliv/images/MethLab.jpg

Do you have beakers, and do you have 20 or 30 boxes of sudafed, with matches soaking in the alcohol? Do you look like a tweaker? The class we had was 8 hours long, and taught us how to look for suspicious behavior, what different clandestine labs (drug, bombs, chemical, etc.) look like, and how to preserve evidence. Nothing conspiracy related.

Without splitting hairs, some people are just looking for a reason to put on the tin foil hats.

FLORIDA KEVIN
November 25, 2007, 09:38 PM
I guess that means that if i think i am having a heart attack ! I should crawl to the door ,go outside ,lock the door then call 911 on my cell phone ?!:banghead:

DMK
November 25, 2007, 09:54 PM
Depends. Does it look like this? No beakers or propane tanks in the house, but my kitchen looks just as messy and that thing on the left looks just like my cappichino machine. :D

No, it's a pretty good idea to get these guys trained actually.

Autolycus
November 26, 2007, 02:40 AM
Originally posted by divemedic: Do you have beakers, and do you have 20 or 30 boxes of sudafed, with matches soaking in the alcohol? Do you look like a tweaker? The class we had was 8 hours long, and taught us how to look for suspicious behavior, what different clandestine labs (drug, bombs, chemical, etc.) look like, and how to preserve evidence. Nothing conspiracy related.

Can you please describe to me what a "tweaker" looks like?

Ragnar Danneskjold
November 26, 2007, 03:01 AM
Without splitting hairs, some people are just looking for a reason to put on the tin foil hats.

QFFT.

I swear, every time I come on this site and TFL, there is new thread warning us that every authority figure from the dog catcher to the leader of the Illumanati is part of some grand plan to turn the world into 1984.

First police, then the military. Now it's firefighters. Soon you guys will be telling us the mailmen are being taught how to pick locks and look for bomb-making stuff while you're not home. The dog-catcher is gonna be out rounding up your dogs so when the SWAT teams come to no-knock everyone's house, your dog won't be able to warn you.

Oh yeah, and Bill Ruger made a secret deal with all of the ammo manufacturing companies to sell us all squib rounds right before the massive .gov takeover starts so we won't be able to defend ourselves.

Reyn
November 26, 2007, 08:02 AM
I swear, every time I come on this site and TFL, there is new thread warning us that every authority figure from the dog catcher to the leader of the Illumanati is part of some grand plan to turn the world into 1984.

First police, then the military. Now it's firefighters. Soon you guys will be telling us the mailmen are being taught how to pick locks and look for bomb-making stuff while you're not home. The dog-catcher is gonna be out rounding up your dogs so when the SWAT teams come to no-knock everyone's house, your dog won't be able to warn you.

Oh yeah, and Bill Ruger made a secret deal with all of the ammo manufacturing companies to sell us all squib rounds right before the massive .gov takeover starts so we won't be able to defend ourselves

+1

ADKWOODSMAN
November 26, 2007, 08:10 AM
As posted above:
1. Expressing hate of the U.S.. Well my copies of EFAD and UC should suffice.
2. Unusual Chemicals.. Unusual for whom?
3. Ammo and guns, check
4. Surveillance equip.. Hmm, how about a microphone?
5. Still and video cameras, check
6. NVGs-- Guess I'm missing that one
7. Maps and photos, duh
etc

Sounds like most hunters and shooters homes!!!

ilbob
November 26, 2007, 09:42 AM
the firefighters dont give a ****, trust me

Neither do the Paramedics, trust me.

They will when the feds make it mandatory if they want continued federal funding for the latest toys.

Art Eatman
November 26, 2007, 01:36 PM
I wonder if the Internet has increased the value of stock in Alcoa or Reynolds?

Shiny side out. Remember: Shiny side out. There will be a test, next period.

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