Less-than-Impressed with My Newest Colt 1911 Series 70 Reissue


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Geno
November 24, 2007, 07:06 PM
What effect has a receiver that is not flat? Is this Colt receiverís wavy surface 1) merely cosmetic defect, or 2) substantive to accuracy? I ask because this pistolís stainless steel twin, which has a flawless receiver, is not only accurate, it is consistently accurate. This carbon version is hit-or-miss at best. When I broke it down to clean after the first 100 rounds, this is what I discovered. The waves are actually quite deep, and very noticeable when felt with the finger tips. My question: does this new pistol need to go back to Colt for a new receiver, or am I over-reacting and expecting perfection? Note, I have broken down all of my other 1911s, and none of them is wavy. All of the other receivers are beautiful, and perfectly flat, etc.

All feedback appreciated,

Doc2005

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KC&97TA
November 24, 2007, 07:42 PM
I'd send it back! Just out of cosmetic reasons. I've seen a few Colts slip through QC, that's not the worst I've seen. The WW II recreations aren't known for thier accuracy, weather made by Colt or SA.

Being a 1911 guy I probly don't need to tell you this.

As far as accuracy, I had a SA GI; 98% of the accuracy issues were in the almost 18# trigger pull (I'm not kidding), did a home trigger job on her to 6#'s, added a EGW bushing and then swapped barrel links to tighten her up a bit, she started to chew knot holes with all 7 rounds, holding 2" groups at 25yrds, even with an extreamly loose slide to frame fitment. I sold the GI in favor of a SA Mil Spec for the base to the wifes NRA Hard Ball gun.

gcrookston
November 24, 2007, 07:48 PM
I don't know that the irregularities on the top of the frame would make that much of an impact on accuracy, however: to me it looks like a strong indicator of the overall quality, fit and finish of the weapon. Yes, I would send it back.

I haven't bought a colt newer than 1975 and will still throw up my 1967 GCNM against anything that has come out under the colt name in the last 30 years... I recently looked at a NIB 1972 Series 70 Gold Cup $1,200.00 and that isn't much more than what they are selling current issues for. If and when I buy another colt, it will be another oldie.

Geno
November 24, 2007, 08:03 PM
I agree. Even if it does not effect accuracy, it has a negative affect. The majority of 1911 guys and gals would take one look at the receiver, feel it and say...that's crappy! I just noticied this a day or two ago, and so I haven't had time to call Colt. I think I'll take it back to Double Action in Madison Heights where I bought it, and let them get after Colt. I can't see me paying nearly $1,000.00 for the pistol, then paying $60.00 for shipping when it wasn't my "doing".

This defect, to me, is seriously disappointing! That statement should be pacifying to the many Kimber owners who get upset at my criticisms based on my 5 defective Kimbers. I will go one step farther and say that this defect exceeds anything I had experienced with any of my Kimbers. That is a pretty profound condemnation, at least from me.

Thanks all for your feedback, and any future posts.

Doc2005

rellascout
November 24, 2007, 09:27 PM
Call Colt and they will refund you any shipping cost you incur getting the gun back to them. Pen them a a nice letter explaining that you want the pistol replaced and they will get you a new gun.

Everyone sends a lemon out every now and then. To me its more about what they do once they have screwed up. Colt will make it right.

HisSoldier
November 24, 2007, 09:38 PM
I expect they will refinish the top surface if that would still leave it within spec and reblue it and sell it. I can't see how that would effect accuracy, but it would bother me too.

rellascout
November 24, 2007, 09:43 PM
I agree that it is purely cosmetic but I would still ask for a replacement.

Geno
November 24, 2007, 09:57 PM
Great points! Thanks for the support!

Doc2005

Robert Hairless
November 24, 2007, 10:54 PM
Doc, in my one experience with Colt customer service they went far beyond the bounds of good support. A couple of years ago they replaced the slide on a 25-year-old limited edition 1911 that developed a problem. What they did was produce a new slide with the old rollmark and refit that slide to the frame. I did pay the shipping cost to them. Didn't bother me. Still doesn't.

Don't be put off if the customer support contact person refuses to commit to free repair or replacement over the telephone. My own experience is that it's standard procedure to be non-commital until after they have the gun in hand.

For what it's worth, I've never been dissatisfied with the treatment I've had from customer support by any firearms manufacturer. They've all done well by me, including Kimber.

Geno
November 24, 2007, 11:09 PM
Thanks Robert. Your input is also greatly appreciated!

Doc2005

crankshop1000
November 25, 2007, 08:56 AM
Where is that Colt made??

Geno
November 25, 2007, 08:57 AM
I thought all current-production Colts were made in-house by Colt, here in the good ol' USA.

Doc2005

rellascout
November 25, 2007, 11:51 AM
They have a plant in CA. You will see some rifles marked made in Canada.

I have not see a pistol made anywhere but the US.

Geno
November 25, 2007, 04:42 PM
:D Time to locate a new place to purchase firearms.

Doc2005

Richard
November 25, 2007, 04:49 PM
Go back to Double Action and see the owner. The owner has always been straight with me. Regards, Richard:D

eldon519
November 25, 2007, 05:00 PM
When you write your letter to Colt, just remember to separate your frustrations with Colt from your frustrations with Double Action. You catch more flies with honey than vinegar and a particularly scathing letter will do little to grease the wheels in a situation where they ultimately have all the power.

Geno
November 25, 2007, 05:05 PM
Eldon519: Amen to that!!! :) Think I'll take a break before I start writing.

Richard: What is the owner's name?

Thanks,

Doc2005

Hunter0924
November 25, 2007, 05:57 PM
Doc why don't you give Cindy a hollar at Colt in the morning and talk to her about it, she is great to deal with?
Are yall sure Colt has a factory in California? I know of Colt Canada but have never heard they had a plant in Ca.

Geno
November 25, 2007, 06:33 PM
Hey Hunter:

I've been waiting to hear from you for your take! Thank-you for the suggestion. I will call her, and drop your name if that is okay with you.

Appreciated,

Geno

Gila Jorge
November 25, 2007, 06:52 PM
I would be all over them to fix it...just does not look right...looks like a drunken machinist last worked on it...unacceptable even for Colt....

Geno
November 25, 2007, 07:15 PM
Letter discarded and new one written.

MICHAEL T
November 25, 2007, 10:19 PM
A phone call to Colt would have been better .They might have had picked up . Now you send letter and they will say send it in. Time wasted. Cindy would have been much faster.

Geno
November 25, 2007, 10:47 PM
The dealer offered to ship it back to Colt, and they requested that I write the letter detailing the concerns.

If Colt were to have it picked up, I have to take a day off work waiting for UPS, or take a day off work to drop it at UPS. Also, when returned, I have to take another day off work to receive it from UPS. This happened way, way too many times with my 5 defective Kimbers. Better that the dealer ship it, and I'll call Cindy all the same.

Does the letter seem too harsh? I have not yet printed it, and am simply concerned that the person who receives the letter not feel like they are taking the heat that should rightly go to the negligent "inspector".

Doc2005

eldon519
November 26, 2007, 12:37 AM
Just polishing it, I believe there is a grammatical error in the 3rd paragraph.
"I took it home and broke it down to be clean it."

Not a bad letter though. I'd say it's a little harsh with the ultimatum for my taste, but each man does business his own way. I'd say just wait and re-read it tomorrow before you send it to make sure you still feel the same way.

Geno
November 26, 2007, 12:40 AM
Correct on the grammar. Hate to edit my own writing. I agree. Let it set for an evening, then reread.

Thanks,

Doc2005

thertel
November 26, 2007, 01:10 AM
I interact with customers for a living and that letter rubs me the wrong way, the tone is very "or else"ish and threatening. Now each person handles things in their own way, but from experience, a non threatening letter providing a list of solutions that will satisfy you works best. I would advise taking a day or so and then reviewing your letter.

Thomas

CPshooter
November 26, 2007, 01:12 AM
Looks pretty darn chopped up IMO..I'd definitely call 'em up and see if anything can be done. I mean a bad finish is one thing, but that picture clearly indicates that Colt employs a blind machinist or gunsmith:)

Geno
November 26, 2007, 08:55 AM
Letter discarded and new one written.

Geno
November 26, 2007, 11:25 AM
Hunter:

I just left a voice message for Cindy. Before I enclose any letter I'll speak with her. As has been said, more flies with honey than vinegar. I think at worst enclose two letters, one for Cindy and one to be read by whomever inspected the pistol. Cindy may suggest cutting the letter back to mere details of the defect and call it good. Whatever her lead, thatís what Iíll follow.

Thanks,

Doc2005

Geno
November 26, 2007, 04:32 PM
Hunter:

I sent you a CC: of the letter that I sent to Cindy. She was very helpful! As you will see, I turned the tone way, way down in the letter.

Doc2005

rellascout
November 26, 2007, 05:47 PM
I think you have an issue. The Gun needs to be replaced.

That said you are blowing it way out of proportion. I own a company and deal with customers all day long. When a customer comes at you with threats it does not make you want to help them. You come across as combative and insulting in your letter. Colt made a mistake. Please show me a company that doesn't. Show me a manufacturer that has never let something slip through? No manufacturer is perfect. If you are looking for perfection you will always be disappointed. It is what a company does once it has messed up that defines customer service. Good customer service does not come at the point of a gun which is what your letter conveys. Replace my pistol or else. Too many consumers take that combative approach from jump. Trust me it is not in your best interest. It is not professional.

Colt will take care of the issue. Take all the anger and all of the heirloom stuff out of the post. It does not serve your purpose. In my experience all you have to do is tell Colt that you expect more than this out of them and that you buy Colt at a premium because of the overall quality of the product.

You don't have to threaten them. It makes you not them look bad.

I had a Colt WWI Commemorative with off center plug. It also had a light carbonia blue finish that was streaky. I called my dealer he called Colt and told them I would be sending it in. I called Colt confirmed what my dealer told me and shipped the pistol. Colt told me to wait until after the holidays, 2006, so that it would not sit in the warehouse or at UPS since they shut down after Christmas. I wrote a letter asking for a replacement. No threats only praise for Colt and its standard of quality and thanking them for their attention to this matter.

4 weeks later a perfect Colt WWI showed up at my door with a refund check for my shipping cost. There was no yelling. There was no need for threats. They took care of it. No questions asked. That is why I continue to buy Colts and so should you.

Geno
November 26, 2007, 05:52 PM
Thank-you for the sincere feedback. I agree with you...completely. I rewrote the letter and toned it way, way down. If fact, the letter was quite friendly as it went out.

I too put a lot of genuine praise for Colt for what has been right, and how I came to Colt. The reason I don't post the rewritten letter is that is details my 35 surgeries, and how the doctor told me to get active in a shooting sport again. That's enough medical detail there though.

The letter in the end, was highly positive, and no negative.

Thanks again,

Doc2005

rellascout
November 26, 2007, 05:57 PM
I am glad to here that. They will make it right. Remember to be patient. They may not have a 70 series in stock and ready to go and Colt runs guns in lots but I do truly believe they will replace it.

Again this is why we buy Colts instead of HKs.

littlegator
November 26, 2007, 06:10 PM
Again this is why we buy Colts instead of HKs.

Although if Larry Vickers and Ken Hackathorn had their original wish and built the elusive HK45 as a 1911 instead of a polymer, I might be interested... :D

schmeky
November 26, 2007, 10:57 PM
I just wanted to add that I love 1911's, Colts being one of my favorites. I have a Stainless Custom .38 Super, a 9mm Colt Commander, and a .45 XSE in stainless. Of these 3, all 3 have minor issues.

The XSE slide appears to be to far forward, the result being the rear frame rails and ejector are "protruding" at the rear.

The .38 Super's manual safety does not work 100% correctly, and travels downward past the plunger detent on the manual safety.

The 9mm Commander has the grittiest and the most coarse feel when being cocked of any 1911 I have experienced, bar none.

Am I knocking Colt? No. But I have other 1911's that are of equal, if not better overall quality. I am saying this because I get tired of others bashing other non-Colt 1911's.

Doc2005,

I hope you get your issues resolved to your satisfaction. Let us know.

dsk
November 27, 2007, 12:31 AM
So far pretty much everyone I've heard of who had to send a gun back to Colt received a better-than-perfect gun in return.

I have to admit though, the anomaly I see in the pictures isn't something that would bother me unless I could actually feel binding in the action. I've seen quite a few factory screwups that were a LOT worse.

Geno
November 27, 2007, 07:08 AM
dsk:

To be certain I tend to be a perfectionist. I have thought of that fact a lot this week. I don't expect perfection in people, but I do in products. But oddly, the unlinked part is that people put together this parts. :scrutiny: There seems somewhat a disconnect, doesn't there?

I am confident that Colt will make the pistol right. I think I tended to over-react in part because in these past two years I have received entirely too many defective firearms. In total, I think I have had 10 defective arms in two years. That is a lot. In closing, the people where I usually purchase my firearms know how I am and they usually had me work with one sales person...who was like me...overly perfectionist.

Sitting here working on my tolerance,

Doc2005

P.S. This is why I like The High Road...it's a great reality check!

Geno
December 18, 2007, 04:41 PM
My Colt Series 70 Reproduction JUST arrived back from the factory.

I have to admit, that when I sent my Series 70 reproduction back to Colt for a warranty repair to the receiver, I never expected that it would look right upon return. While that expectation is based in receiving a total of 10 defective firearms from several companies in the past couple of years, I must admit, Colt has shocked me nearly beyond words!!! However, that the receiver looked beautiful meant little...that is subjective.

I broke-out the electronic digital caliper, brought out every 1911-A1 that I own, and commenced to measuring the receivers. Okay...I'm officially wowed! I'm shocked! And so, Doc must admit,

Ya'll told me so! You told me Colt would do my 1911-A1 right! You were right! I am thrilled to eat my words, and dish myself up a gigantic slice of humble pie! I was wrong! Only problem is that now it looks too purdy to use!

Sorry to rush, but I owe Colt a letter of very sincere gratitude!

Doc2005

schmeky
December 18, 2007, 04:54 PM
A happy ending, awwww, ain't that beautiful :p

Congrats!! I would let Colt know how satisfied you are.

Geno
December 18, 2007, 05:02 PM
Yes, I just returned from sending a nice letter of thanks.

Doc2005

Black Majik
December 18, 2007, 05:31 PM
Excellent report. I'm happy to hear Colt did you well.

Hunter0924
December 18, 2007, 07:30 PM
Well Doc good news. I am glad Colt took care of the problem and made you happy. I have never had to send a Colt back but I have done a lot of business with Colt and several articles. They have always been more than helpful. Mark Roberts (before he left Colt) proofed a few of my articles for correctness and Cindy helped me with the time line on my tour article.
They have always done right by me and I am glad they done right by you as well (though I expected nothing less).

Geno
December 19, 2007, 12:31 AM
Hey Hunter!

Yes, the receiver looks new. The entire pistol is flawlessly refinished! The rails' variance across 50 points of measurement (25 points to both sides) was only .0005 at any point!! My word, my other 1911-A1s aren't that precise!!! The fit to the slide is impeccable and smooth! I seriously thought that they had put a new receiver.

In fairness to my previous doubts, this Colt pistol is the first of the 10 defective firearms (various companies) which was factually and properly repaired. None of the other 9 defective firearms were ever repaired.

Colt broke the mold! They really have restored my faith in QC. True enough, perfection does not exist, and an error may get through. However, if I ever have another issue with a Colt (doubt I will), but if I did, I would be 100% confident that Colt would make the pistol right. :D

Doc2005

polekitty
December 19, 2007, 12:53 AM
Gee whiz---Iím late on this one! Here it is, 12-18-07! I had a new series 70 several years ago. It malfunctioned a bit! Did every thing a 1911 could do: fail to feed, failto extract, fail to eject, stove pipe, etc. I took it to a local gunsmith here, not famous, but in business for about 30 yrs. He changed the bushing, recoil sring, tweaked the extractor, lowered the port, and re-blued. Looked like it had just come from factory, and ran smooth as silk from then on, no more malfunctions! And you could do knot-holes with it. Ate any ammo I put in it. Just needed a bit more tlc than the colt boys did.

Ala Dan
December 19, 2007, 01:27 AM
Send it back Doc, my friend~! Colt's QC folks should have caught that defective receiver~! :eek: ;)

Black Majik
December 19, 2007, 02:16 AM
^ LOL dan. read the thread :D

Feanaro
December 19, 2007, 03:02 AM
Dan may still have a point. The tolerances on the one Doc got back are magnitudes tighter, it would seem. So if he sends it back again, he should get one regulated to .00005 inches. ;)

Geno
December 20, 2007, 07:37 AM
I can't believe how good the receiver looks, and how well it measures.

Thanks all,

Doc2005

SwampWolf
December 27, 2007, 07:55 PM
So, how does it shoot?

MikePGS
December 27, 2007, 08:24 PM
I don't know Doc, i still wouldn't trust it. Just hand it over to me, and i'll get rid of it for ya :neener:.

Geno
January 1, 2008, 05:12 PM
Sorry for the delay. I hadn't stopped back in the thread. I have no idea how well it shoots now because it's too pretty to holster-up. I'm sure someday I'll get the gall worked up to take "Celia" out. :D

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