[2dogs]

So it's the LAW ABIDING CITIZENS who are creating an "atmosphere of fear" on the border. Funny, you might have thought it was illegals, terrorists and drug smugglers doing that.







http://www.tucsoncitizen.com/local/1_8_03grijalva.html

SERGIO BUSTOS
Gannett News Service
Jan. 8, 2003
WASHINGTON - In his first official action as a new member of Congress, Rep. Raúl Grijalva, D-Ariz., called on federal authorities to investigate vigilante groups in southern Arizona.
Grijalva warned that the groups have created "an atmosphere of fear" along the U.S.-Mexico border.
Grijalva, a Tucsonan, was officially sworn in yesterday as a member of the House of Representatives for the 7th District of Arizona, which includes a 350-mile border with Mexico.
He sent a letter to the U.S. Attorney's Office in Phoenix, urging action against the vigilantes.
"An atmosphere of fear exists in southern Arizona that threatens to ignite in a flashpoint of violence," warned Grijalva in a letter to U.S. Attorney Paul Charlton. "The words and actions of these groups are ample evidence of an armed racist movement intent on taking the law into their own hands.
"We cannot allow the complex issues involved in U.S.-Mexico border policy to be hijacked by individuals who have chosen to break faith with our government and take matters into their own hands," Grijalva wrote.
"We will certainly respond to his inquiry," said Patrick Schneider, spokesman for the U.S. Attorney's Office.
Arizona has been a leading illegal gateway into the United States for migrants since the mid-1990s, when federal authorities waged an intense campaign to block the U.S.-Mexico border in California and Texas.
The latest figures show that at least 1 in 3 illegal immigrants arrested along the U.S.-Mexico border was captured in Arizona.
Several vigilante groups have emerged within the last year to argue that the federal government has failed to protect the border.
Chris Simcox, a local newspaper owner in Tombstone, founded Civil Homeland Defense.
"We are a law-abiding group that is doing nothing else but protecting private property and the sovereignty of our borders, which are being invaded on a daily basis by drug dealers, criminals and illegal immigrants," said Simcox.
"I encourage Mr. Grijalva to work with Gov. (Janet) Napolitano and President Bush to secure our borders so that American citizens are not forced to do this on their own."
The presence of the vigilantes has angered human rights organizations that allege such groups are shooting at illegal immigrants and making illegal arrests.
The Tucson-based Border Action Network released a report last month accusing several groups of having a racist, anti-immigrant agenda and of having ties to hate groups outside Arizona.
The network demanded that federal and state authorities, including newly elected Gov. Napolitano, investigate their allegations.
Napolitano, who opposes civilians acting as law enforcers but believes landowners at the border have a right to feel protected by the federal government, has called for talks to be held among all groups concerned with border-related issues.
Grijalva, 54, who was elected in November to one of two new House seats in Arizona, is one of three freshman lawmakers from Arizona.
He resigned his seat on the Pima County Board of Supervisors last year to run for Congress.

[Sergeant Bob]

I was wondering how long it would take for someone to play that card. About time for the RDDB shuysters to swoop down and file some lawsuits.

[Bottom Gun]

This fool is going to be nothing but trouble for us.

[ArmsAkimber]

I know nothing about Napolitano's politics, but I seethe whenever I hear a politico say the people have the right to feel safe! I hear this time and time again from people who are skeptical of private gun ownership, if not outright hostile.

BTW, I thought LEOs were civilians, too. :scrutiny:

[MacPelto]

BTW, I thought LEOs were civilians, too.

Thank you! This is one of my pet peeves. The counterpart to civilian is military not police. It's a sad commentary on the state of things that people don't know this.

[Gordon]

Grijalvais a grifting POS.:fire: :cuss:

[PATH]

Gordon, I agree with you.

One wonders whether he represents the U.S. or the damn Mexican Government!

[foghornl]

I suggest making his miserable butt stay with some of the ranchers/farmers/landowners out there for a few weeks, and see exactly what is happening. He needs a LARGE dose of reality.

[Bottom Gun]

Gordon,

Don't sugar coat it. Tell us what you really think.
:D :D

[AZTOY]

"I encourage Mr. Grijalva to work with Gov. (Janet) Napolitano and President Bush to secure our borders so that American citizens are not forced to do this on their own."

I agree

[DaveB]

Let me see it I've got this right: a Congressman from Arizona is concerned about armed civilians 'policing' the border, and some of you think he should butt out, or that he's secretly working with the Mexican Government to make it easier for illegals to infiltrate the USA?

You're kidding, right?

db

[tyme]

daveb, citizens can "police" more than just the border. Most states have citizen's arrest provisions. These groups are not vigilantes; they don't shoot immigrants unless they present clear and immediate danger to others, and such shootings are quite rare.

If these groups amount to racists who create an "atmosphere of fear," I guess that gives criminals everywhere justification to complain about police and armed citizens.

The congresscritter is not quoted as giving some alternative to the groups; he just wants the groups investigated. The groups are doing nothing wrong; next month they'll be investigating arab and chinese communities. After that they'll be investigating us gun owners.

You're kidding, right?

[Bottom Gun]

We would be much better off without this liberal idiot and Ed Pastor.

[Gray Peterson]

Let me see it I've got this right: a Congressman from Arizona is concerned about armed civilians 'policing' the border, and some of you think he should butt out, or that he's secretly working with the Mexican Government to make it easier for illegals to infiltrate the USA?

You're kidding, right?

The latter is probably true. Remember that it was the "illegal vote" that pushed Gray Davis to victory. The illegal immigrants who ILLEGALLY register to vote will NEVER vote Republican, ever.

Remember the Aztlan movement?

[UnknownSailor]

Agreed, This guy has no right to complain. The people actually on the scene have been asking for help from anyone who will listen, and so far have been totally ignored.

If Congress wants to ignore this issue, fine, then they shouldn't be suprised when the US Citizens involved decide to take care of it themselves.

To the honorable Mr. Raúl Grijalva, my suggestion:

Help, or STFU.

[Bottom Gun]

Unknown Sailor,

You should avoid misleading terms such as "honorable" when you refer to politicians. It only adds to the confusion.

[BenW]

Remember the Aztlan movement?
It's not even a thing to remember -- it's still quite active. Maybe another representative from Arizona should ask for a Federal inquiry into that movement as a terrorist threat (easy to do given the threats issued by that group and their inflammatory language).

[Aikibiker]

This is what I learned in class last night:

"The police are the citizens and the citizens are the police, the only difference is, some citizens are paid to be police."

Sir Robert Peel

Sir Robert Peel started the London Metropolitan Police in the 1800s and is considered the father of modern policing.

This quote was given to me by my professor who is also a Lt. in the Daytona Beach police department. This is what is being taught to the rank and file police officers of the DBPD. And yes it is going to be on a test at some point.

I think it is time for the honorable congressman to go to school and learn some things about the real world.

[Malone LaVeigh]

If he has some doubts about the motives of the citizens, let him probe away and let the chips fall where they may. At the same time, it would be interesting to look a little into why he's so concerned with protecting the interests of outlaws.

[jimpeel]

My dear departed descendant also wrote the "Nine Principles" of police conduct which may be viewed at: http://www.newwestpolice.org/peel.html

The full text of the quote you posted is"
“The police are the public and the public are the police. The police being the only members of the public that are paid to give full-time attention to duties which are incumbent on every citizen, in the interests of community welfare and existence.”
-- Robert Peel 1829

[UnknownSailor]

You should avoid misleading terms such as "honorable" when you refer to politicians. It only adds to the confusion.

Notice the small "h". :D

I understand completely.

[jimpeel]

"The words and actions of these groups are ample evidence of an armed racist movement intent on taking the law into their own hands. Might I remind Mr. Grijalva that there are only three -- count 'em -- THREE races:

Negroid

Mongoloid

Caucasoid

Every person on the face of the Earth must belong to one of these three subsets of humanity.

Mexicans are not Negroid;

Mexicans are not Mongoloid;

Mexicans are Caucasoid.

This means, for all intents and purposes, they are White.

There is no Mexican "race". There is only a Mexican culture and geographical Ethnicity just like there is only an American culture and geographic Ethnicity.

American Blacks, Whites, and Asians all make up a geographical American Ethnicity as a whole. We can hyphenate ourselves until we all turn a lovely shade of Blue but we will still be nothing more than a Blue American geographical Ethnicity.

There is no such thing as "La Raza" (The Race). This is a fabrication; but it does sound great when chanted in unison.

[Aikibiker]

jimpeel,

Thanks for the correction, my professor talks fast and my notes suffer. I am lucky to get the gist of what he says sometimes. The problem is he is from New York originally and this is the deep south, so the poor guy didn't learn the language from birth. ^_^

Are you really related to the late Sir Peel?

The good thing is that this sort of thinking is being passed to the younger officers in the town I live in. Makes me feel a bit better about the future. Now if we could just spread the word that people are supposed to be responsible for themselves and not depend on the government to take care of them....

[jimpeel]

Are you really related to the late Sir Peel?
Yeah, he's hanging on my family tree somewhere I've been told. Never done the research as Genealogy doesn't interest me.

[madkiwi]

DaveB

The evidence (words from this congresscritter's own mouth) would suggest that his concern is not with American citizens, but lies with the illegal immigrants and drug runners. So to answer your question... No, we're not kidding.

Oh, and he needs to look up "vigilante" in a dictionary. What these groups in Arizona are doing is not it.

madkiwi

[jimpeel]

Chris Simcox was on Fox recently and he stated that the "armed vigilantes" a: aren't armed and b: aren't vigilantes.

He had news footage to back this up.

He stated that what they do is call on their cell phones to alert the Border Patrol to incursions they discover.

I guess that calling the proper authorities to report a crime is now going to be viewed as racist vigilantism.

[AZTOY]

jimpeel
Chris Simcox was on Fox recently and he stated that the "armed vigilantes" a: aren't armed and b: aren't vigilantes.


The guy's have CCW .:neener: :D

To date, more than 600 people have volunteered to become members of what Simcox calls Civilian Homeland Defense. Tomorrow, the first 50 of those volunteers will be inducted into the unit and begin a course of training that includes qualification for a state-issued concealed weapons permit, which will include a federal background check – a way of screening out the crazies and criminals.


http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=29900

[Waitone]

Puhleez, puhleez launch an investigation. Bigger the better.

The only reason we haven't seen an investigation is the ruling class has created a Class I Charlie-Foxtrot that is hard to comprehend its scope. Now that we have a Joe Sixpack sporting a set of brass **** and a Representative who isn't worried about people using bad words about him, we can start. Add to the mix a cable network asking embarrising questions and we now have all the elements of a public policy debate.

I think it is fantastic the goober wants an investigation. While we're at it, let's investigate his background. Let's make him the target of a public jihad.

In case there is anyone out there wanting to use my comments as proof is racist thought about minorities, read this: I oppose ILLEGAL immigration. I also demand my elected officials carry out the terms of their oath.

Illegal immigration will be a pivotal issue in the 2004 elections. Bush had better grow a spine and come down on the right side. Right now he fears the illegal immigrant lobby more than he fears law-abiding taxpayers.

[rick_reno]

Want to know more about Congressman Grijalva?

http://elections.azstarnet.com/askcan/d7-grijalva.php

He has been reported to have been a member of Mecha, you can learn all about them here.

http://www.mayorno.com/WhoIsMecha.html

[Waitone]

. . . . background information just in.

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2003/1/10/142601.shtml



One Reporter's Opinion: A Pox on Mr. Fox
George Putnam
Friday, Jan. 10, 2003

It is this reporter's opinion that there are very few political figures, top to bottom, that have the guts to put their political well-being on the line, taking a stand on the continuing invasion of illegal aliens across our porous borders.


There are two who have taken a stand: Congressman Ron Paul, R-Texas, and Congressman Tom Tancredo, R-Colo.

Tancredo was recently re-elected in spite of vicious attacks by his own local Denver Post and others; he was re-elected by a margin of two to one. The congressman told me that at times in the weeks before the election, things didn't seem so bright. But even the Denver Post, which had bitterly attacked his position on immigration, did a turnabout and reluctantly backed him, at the same time recommending that Republicans find a candidate more suitable in the next election.

Tancredo gained national attention when he blasted the current immigration policies, stating that the present situation is in place to a high degree because of support from both the Democratic and Republican parties. He said, "The Democratic Party sees it as a source of a lot of potential votes and the Republican Party sees it as a source of a lot of cheap labor."


Only yesterday I spoke with Congressman Ron Paul, who speaks loud and clear that we are now facing a global Social Security giveaway. He refers to what we have recently discussed as the hijacking of our Social Security system – a looming deal between the administration and the government of Mexico, which would make hundreds of thousands of Mexican citizens eligible for U.S. Social Security benefits.

The centerpiece of the agreement would be a so-called "totalization," which would mean that even if a Mexican citizen did not work in the U.S. long enough to qualify for Social Security, the number of years he/she worked in Mexico would be added to bring up the total and thus make the Mexican worker eligible for cash transfers from the U.S.

Thousands of foreigners who would qualify for our Social Security benefits actually came to the U.S. illegally and worked here illegally.

This proposed agreement is nothing more or less than a financial reward to those who have willingly and knowingly violated our immigration laws and have thumbed their noses at our precious sovereignty.


How many more thousands would break the law to come to this country if promised U.S. government paychecks for life? We would be creating a global welfare state on the back of the American taxpayer.


There are approximately 18 million Mexican immigrants living in the U.S. It is all but impossible to determine how many illegals are here. The Mexican government, under President Vicente Fox and his Marxist assistant, Jorge Castaneda, is working daily on a planned takeover of America. Fox is determined to bring about dual citizenship and to wipe out all borders on his drive toward "globalization."

Fox repeatedly called upon us to treat his Mexican nationals "safe, comfortable, legal, and orderly" and the attitude of police persecution must be abandoned and be perceived as a labor and social phenomenon.

He is also telling us that we must accept the drag-down level of corrupt, impoverished, backward degradation his own country has experienced 70 years under the PRI and his own present-day economic and social chaos – a nation whose citizens are fleeing from their country to ours, at the rate of millions per decade.


Hispanics are now the largest minority group in America at 12.6 percent, and Mexicans make up half of that population. The Mexican government is well on its way to wielding significant influence over U.S. policy, relying upon the loyalties of 18 million dual citizens within our borders.


Let's face it, President Fox, with your sagging economy and unrealized campaign promises, you are fighting for your political life in what is fast becoming a Third World country. But why must our president, Senate, Congress and immigration authorities bail you out in your struggle to survive?


It's time for American citizens of all political stripes to stand up for the continuation of the sovereignty of our great nation. Let's stop this horrendous giveaway. Let's stop "totalization" and "globalization."

Dare I say it, a pox on Mr. Fox.

[AZTOY]

The Mexican government, under President Vicente Fox and his Marxist assistant, Jorge Castaneda, is working daily on a planned takeover of America. :fire:

I don't understand why we are not going after this NUT .:confused:

Should this be a call to ARMS:fire: :fire:

[Gordon]

I'm in with ya brother and would reccomend such a campaign to all my sons.:fire:

[clem]

Well, maybe a letter, lots of letters, to Mr. Grijalva explaining what his sworn responsibilities are to ALL of the citizens of Arizona and the United States are, might knock that green worm off of the top of his brain.


Raúl M. Grijalva
Arizona-7th, Democrat
1440 Longworth HOB
Washington, DC 20515-0307
Phone: (202) 225-2435


No, on second thought, you'll be wasting your time. We had him as a county supervizor for 14 years. Damn, where were the "investigators of corruption" at, when you needed them?

[schild]

For more on the border, www.americanpatrol.com

[gwalchmai]

ANYONE who crosses a nation's border by other means than that nation's legal immigration procedures is by definition a foreign invader. Any nation which refuses to protect its borders from foreign invasion will soon lose it sovereinity. Any citizen who aids foreign invaders is guilty of treason.

To me these issues seem very clear.

[Chipper]

Well, why not launch a counter-probe against Grijalva? Is he not a duly elected representative? Did he not take an oath to support the constitution? Seems to me there is a little something in that dusty old document about To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;

The governor of AZ could do this according to art. 10:
No state shall... or engage in War, unless actually invaded, or in such imminent Danger as will not admit of delay. The invasion is on NOW. There's no time for idiots in the national congress to have probes, hearings, debates, filibusters or any other delay tactic used to avoid responsibility for failure to uphold the law.

Three cheers, a Huzzah! and HooRah! to the citizens of AZ for standing up for what's right and right now rather than waiting for the pin-headed, pointless pontificators of political perversity and poo (inc.) to actually make an effort to do what they were ostensibly elected to do. The wonders of democracy will never cease.

Chipper

[clem]

This letter to the editor of the local paper "Tucson Citizen" says what a lot of locals feel including real American citizens of Mexican heritage.


Whom does Grijalva represent?
After reading U.S. Rep. Raúl Grijalva's statements about investigating the "vigilantes" on our border, it's obvious that he's not representing the ranchers of southern Arizona.
He seems to be more of a representative of the drug smugglers, potential terrorists and millions of foreign residents who illegally cross our borders than he is for the U.S. citizens who are continually faced with the intrusion, destruction and fear these law- breaking aliens create.
Illegals crossing our border are breaking our laws. They violate the rights of U.S. citizens. They violate our Constitution. If Grijalva wants to investigate something, investigate why the ranchers have to protect themselves. Investigate why Congress won't do its job and stop illegal immigration. Investigate why some people care more about lawbreakers than about the damage they do and the Americans they hurt.
I'm getting really tired of people shouting "racist" anytime someone raises the problem of illegal aliens. It's not about race. It's about laws, criminal aliens and the rights of our citizens.

- SILVIO DiGREGORIO

[clem]

Tucson Citizen
Jan. 13, 2003
Grijalva an embarrassment to state
It was rather sad to see the picture of Raúl Grijalva being sworn in as a congressman. This is a man with no shame who chooses not to represent southern Arizona and the United States, but the illegal immigrants who are a plague, a threat and a burden to our state and country.
The fear on the border comes not from good citizens who are trying to do what our government has failed to do - secure our borders - but from the invasion into, and upon the land, homes and rights of those who live close to Mexico.
A fact obviously lost on Grijalva is that he was elected to represent us, translate that to U.S., not illegal immigrants. Should he ask for anything, it should be that the feds do their job so that private citizens would not have to act in their absence. He is, and will continue to be, an embarrassment to our state.
- BILL BERLAT
Oro Valley

Grijalva: Right words, wrong target
I've heard enough to convince me that I must have been wrong about Raúl Grijalva.
"An atmosphere of fear exists in southern Arizona that threatens to ignite in a flashpoint of violence," he said, accurately identifying the feelings of many of our border citizens who are on the front lines of the southern invasion.
"The words and actions of these groups are ample evidence of an armed racist movement intent on taking the law into their own hands," he continued, recognizing that groups of drug smugglers, coyotes, and "undocumented" immigrants - including possible terrorists - have thumbed their noses at our laws.
"We cannot allow the complex issues involved in U.S.-Mexico border policy to be hijacked by individuals who have chosen to break faith with our government and take matters into their own hands," he continued, in apparent reference to those criminals who decide that U.S. immigration law and border control are misguided mistakes.
How disappointed I was to discover, upon closer reading, that the newly sworn congressman was talking about Arizonans, U.S. citizens, who are striving to protect their private property in response to lax federal protection of our sovereign borders. And here I was, thinking that maybe a leopard could change his spots.

- ROBERT L. LEE

Grijalva should be prosecuted
Actually, the racist U.S. Rep. Raúl Grijalva, D-Ariz., should be investigated for encouraging illegals to break U.S. law and he should be prosecuted for creating the atmosphere and opportunity for terrorists to breach our border and kill U.S. citizens.
I look forward to seeing the racist Rep. Grijalva prosecuted under the Patriot Act and sent to prison.

- DAVE MARCINIAK

[AZTOY]

Chris Simcox

Civil Homeland Defense website

Requirements of Participation

Arizona State certified Concealed Carry Weapons course certification. CCW certification from other states is also acceptable. One of the primary reasons for the CCW requirement is the government required background check and finger printing to ensure that all volunteers have no criminal records.


First Aid and CPR training in order to be able to assist any illegal alien who may be in need.


Legal background instruction regarding federal and state laws that may apply. This instruction is considered the most important and heavily stressed.


Rudimentary training and procedures (SOPs - Standard Operating Procedures) that will apply the conduct of the mission. Such training will include, but not be limited to - land navigation, compass use, map reading, GPS usage; communications procedures, cell phone and radio use; incident reporting; hand & arms signals; Spanish language phraseology; equipment maintenance; and other mission specific training determined necessary as the mission evolves.

http://www.civilhomelanddefense.us/

[che4rev]

I am all for people protecting their land, and I realize that the mexicans are sometimes destructive to ranchers land, but, I find the trend of gunowners being anti imigration to be disturbing for two reasons.

First it gives the liberals an opening to label us all xenopbobic, nazis. Second, as gun owners, we must stand on the side of structional functionalism. Just as guns serve to naturally deter crime, illegal imigrants naturally curb prices and fill jobs that most people don't want anyway.

When one goes to McDonalds and buys a cheese burger for $.99 he is able to do so because illegal imigrants cut the meat off the carcas of that dead cow for minimum wage, much cheaper than any American would do it for. At the grocery store a pound of oranges cost $5 if naturalized american citizens had to pick them. Further more, the fake SSN's that they use to get jobs do really belong to somebody and they are paying money into that person's social security fund when they work. They are proping up our Social Security system by working illegally. Finally, I know that I feel like a real gringo ordering food at a mexican restaurant from a waiter that speaks perfect english.

So next time you have a latino invader in your sights you should stop to think about all of the latent benefits we get from having illegal imigrants around before you pull the trigger.

[2dogs]

I find the trend of gunowners being anti imigration

che4rev

Speaking personally I don't believe there is a trend towards being anti immigration. I'd say however there is a h@lluva trend towards anti illegal immigration.

Again, speaking personally, I'll pay $5.00 for a pound of oranges, and take in trade the savings there would be in public assistance, medical costs, prison costs, law enforcement costs etc. that would result from curbing illegal immigration.

:)

[KMKeller]

2dogs has the gist of it. I believe the majority here have no issue whatsoever with those persons who immigrate to the United States according to legal, prescribed methods. It's the constant influx of illegal invaders that has us perturbed.

[Cal4D4]

For che4rev:

Last anybody looked, nobody was piling up the bodies of illegals like cordwood. The most active efforts seem to be in AZ and the body count there is mostly due to harsh summer weather. For many food items the biggest cost currently is advertising and packaging. Some things will go up, but here in Kali we get our produce from all over the world, often picked by workers in the country they have legal residence in. Finally, #1 health risk for Americanos is probably overconsumption; maybe we will opt out of some of those cheep Beeg Macs to help our country with homeland security.

[rock jock]

Speaking personally I don't believe there is a trend towards being anti immigration. I'd say however there is a h@lluva trend towards anti illegal immigration.
Exactly. Why oh why oh why can't people understand this simple concept?

[clem]

How about calling it a "neighborhood watch"?

Or:

Federal Immigration and Nationality Act
Section 8 USC 1324(a)(1)(A)(iv)(b)(iii)

"Any person who . . . encourages or induces an alien to . . . reside . . . knowing or in reckless disregard of the fact that such . . . residence is . . . in violation of law, shall be punished as provided . . . for each alien in respect to whom such a violation occurs . . . fined under title 18 . . . imprisoned not more than 5 years, or both."

Section 274 felonies under the federal Immigration and Nationality Act, INA 274A(a)(1)(A):

A person (including a group of persons, business, organization, or local government) commits a federal felony when she or he:

* assists an alien s/he should reasonably know is illegally in the U.S. or who lacks employment authorization, by transporting, sheltering, or assisting him or her to obtain employment, or

* encourages that alien to remain in the U.S. by referring him or her to an employer or by acting as employer or agent for an employer in any way, or

* knowingly assists illegal aliens due to personal convictions.

Penalties upon conviction include criminal fines, imprisonment, and forfeiture of vehicles and real property used to commit the crime. Anyone employing or contracting with an illegal alien without verifying his or her work authorization status is guilty of a misdemeanor. Aliens and employers violating immigration laws are subject to arrest, detention, and seizure of their vehicles or property. In addition, individuals or entities who engage in racketeering enterprises that commit (or conspire to commit) immigration-related felonies are subject to private civil suits for treble damages and injunctive relief.

Recruitment and Employment of Illegal Aliens

It is unlawful to hire an alien, to recruit an alien, or to refer an alien for a fee, knowing the alien is unauthorized to work in the United States. It is equally unlawful to continue to employ an alien knowing that the alien is unauthorized to work. Employers may give preference in recruitment and hiring to a U.S. citizen over an alien with work authorization only where the U.S. citizen is equally or better qualified. It is unlawful to hire an individual for employment in the United States without complying with employment eligibility verification requirements. Requirements include examination of identity documents and completion of Form I-9 for every employee hired. Employers must retain all I-9s, and, with three days' advance notice, the forms must be made available for inspection. Employment includes any service or labor performed for any type of remuneration within the United States, with the exception of sporadic domestic service by an individual in a private home. Day laborers or other casual workers engaged in any compensated activity (with the above exception) are employees for purposes of immigration law. An employer includes an agent or anyone acting directly or indirectly in the interest of the employer. For purposes of verfication of authorization to work, employer also means an independent contractor, or a contractor other than the person using the alien labor. The use of temporary or short-term contracts cannot be used to circumvent the employment authorization verification requirements. If employment is to be for less than the usual three days allowed for completing the I-9 Form requirement, the form must be completed immediately at the time of hire.

An employer has constructive knowledge that an employee is an illegal unauthorized worker if a reasonable person would infer it from the facts. Constructive knowledge constituting a violation of federal law has been found where (1) the I-9 employment eligibility form has not been properly completed, including supporting documentation, (2) the employer has learned from other individuals, media reports, or any source of information available to the employer that the alien is unauthorized to work, or (3) the employer acts with reckless disregard for the legal consequences of permitting a third party to provide or introduce an illegal alien into the employer's work force. Knowledge cannot be inferred solely on the basis of an individual's accent or foreign appearance.

Actual specific knowledge is not required. For example, a newspaper article stating that ballrooms depend on an illegal alien work force of dance hostesses was held by the courts to be a reasonable ground for suspicion that unlawful conduct had occurred.

IT IS ILLEGAL FOR NONPROFIT OR RELIGIOUS ORGANIZATIONS to knowingly assist an employer to violate employment sanctions, REGARDLESS OF CLAIMS THAT THEIR CONVICTIONS REQUIRE THEM TO ASSIST ALIENS. Harboring or aiding illegal aliens is not protected by the First Amendment. It is a felony to establish a commercial enterprise for the purpose of evading any provision of federal immigration law. Violators may be fined or imprisoned for up to five years.

Encouraging and Harboring Illegal Aliens

It is a violation of law for any person to conceal, harbor, or shield from detection in any place, including any building or means of transportation, any alien who is in the United States in violation of law. HARBORING MEANS ANY CONDUCT THAT TENDS TO SUBSTANTIALLY FACILITATE AN ALIEN TO REMAIN IN THE U.S. ILLEGALLY. The sheltering need not be clandestine, and harboring covers aliens arrested outdoors, as well as in a building. This provision includes harboring an alien who entered the U.S. legally but has since lost his legal status.

An employer can be convicted of the felony of harboring illegal aliens who are his employees if he takes actions in reckless disregard of their illegal status, such as ordering them to obtain false documents, altering records, obstructing INS inspections, or taking other actions that facilitate the alien's illegal employment. Any person who within any 12-month period hires ten or more individuals with actual knowledge that they are illegal aliens or unauthorized workers is guilty of felony harboring. It is also a felony to encourage or induce an alien to come to or reside in the U.S. knowing or recklessly disregarding the fact that the alien's entry or residence is in violation of the law. This crime applies to any person, rather than just employers of illegal aliens. Courts have ruled that "encouraging" includes counseling illegal aliens to continue working in the U.S. or assisting them to complete applications with false statements or obvious errors. The fact that the alien is a refugee fleeing persecution is not a defense to this felony, since U.S. law and the UN Protocol on Refugees both require that a refugee must report to immigration authorities without delay upon entry to the U.S.

The penalty for felony harboring is a fine and imprisonment for up to five years. The penalty for felony alien smuggling is a fine and up to ten years' imprisonment. Where the crime causes serious bodily injury or places the life of any person in jeopardy, the penalty is a fine and up to twenty years' imprisonment. If the criminal smuggling or harboring results in the death of any person, the penalty can include life imprisonment. Convictions for aiding, abetting, or conspiracy to commit alien smuggling or harboring, carry the same penalties. Courts can impose consecutive prison sentences for each alien smuggled or harbored. A court may order a convicted smuggler to pay restitution if the alien smuggled qualifies as a victim under the Victim and Witness Protection Act. Conspiracy to commit crimes of sheltering, harboring, or employing illegal aliens is a separate federal offense punishable by a fine of up to $10,000 or five years' imprisonment.

Enforcement

A person or entity having knowledge of a violation or potential violation of employer sanctions provisions may submit a signed written complaint to the INS office with jurisdiction over the business or residence of the potential violator, whether an employer, employee, or agent. The complaint must include the names and addresses of both the complainant and the violator, and detailed factual allegations, including date, time, and place of the potential violation, and the specific conduct alleged to be a violation of employer sanctions. By regulation, the INS will only investigate third-party complaints that have a reasonable probability of validity. Designated INS officers and employees, and all other officers whose duty it is to enforce criminal laws, may make an arrest for violation of smuggling or harboring illegal aliens.

State and local law enforcement officials have the general power to investigate and arrest violators of federal immigration statutes without prior INS knowledge or approval, as long as they are authorized to do so by state law. There is no extant federal limitation on this authority. The 1996 immigration control legislation passed by Congress was intended to encourage states and local agencies to participate in the process of enforcing federal immigration laws. Immigration officers and local law enforcement officers may detain an individual for a brief warrantless interrogation where circumstances create a reasonable suspicion that the individual is illegally present in the U.S. Specific facts constituting a reasonable suspicion include evasive, nervous, or erratic behavior; dress or speech indicating foreign citizenship; and presence in an area known to contain a concentration of illegal aliens. Hispanic appearance alone is not sufficient. Immigration officers and police must have a valid warrant or valid employer's consent to enter workplaces or residences. Any vehicle used to transport or harbor illegal aliens, or used as a substantial part of an activity that encourages illegal aliens to come to or reside in the U.S. may be seized by an immigration officer and is subject to forfeiture. The forfeiture power covers any conveyances used within the U.S.

RICO -- Citizen Recourse

Private persons and entities may initiate civil suits to obtain injunctions and treble damages against enterprises that conspire to or actually violate federal alien smuggling, harboring, or document fraud statutes, under the Racketeer-Influenced and Corrupt Organizations (RICO). The pattern of racketeering activity is defined as commission of two or more of the listed crimes. A RICO enterprise can be any individual legal entity, or a group of individuals who are not a legal entity but are associated in fact, AND CAN INCLUDE NONPROFIT ASSOCIATIONS.

Tax Crimes

Employers who aid or abet the preparation of false tax returns by failing to pay income or Social Security taxes for illegal alien employees, or who knowingly make payments using false names or Social Security numbers, are subject to IRS criminal and civil sanctions. U.S. nationals who have suffered intentional discrimination because of citizenship or national origin by an employer with more than three employees may file a complaint within 180 days of the discriminatory act with the Special Counsel for Immigration-Related Unfair Employment Practices, U.S. Department of Justice. In additon to the federal statutes summarized, state laws and local ordinances controlling fair labor practices, workers compensation, zoning, safe housing and rental property, nuisance, licensing, street vending, and solicitations by contractors may also apply to activities that involve illegal aliens.


You never know, maybe someone can use this...........

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[jimpeel]

The citizens of this land are damned if they do and damned if they don't.

If they assist an illegal alien to enter the United States illegally, they are subject to investigation and arrest.

If they prevent an illegal alien from entering the United States illegally, they are subject to investigation and arrest.

Sounds like nothing more than job security for the INS / Border patrol.

[spacemanspiff]

"We cannot allow the complex issues involved in U.S.-Mexico border policy to be hijacked by individuals who have chosen to break faith with our government and take matters into their own hands," Grijalva wrote.

how exactly, is the issue 'complicated'? are there occasions when an immigrant is permitted to enter illegally with no repercussions?

buncha flaming idiots. we need NOTHING from mexico. except tacos. and burritos. and nachos. and tequila. thats it. nothing more.

[ahenry]

Sounds like nothing more than job security for the INS / Border patrol. Except the “investigation and arrest” you talk about for keeping illegals from entering doesn’t come from the INS/BP. I’ve said for years that a critical step for dealing with this issue is a that American citizens engaging in legal activity that “prevents” illegals from entering America need to be left alone. Note the words “legal activity”, and “illegals”. Those words are there for a reason.

[jimpeel]

Except the “investigation and arrest” you talk about for keeping illegals from entering doesn’t come from the INS/BP.But the INS / BP will be the ones that are going to be tasked with this if they outlaw the public at large from interfering with the ingress of illegals into our country.

[yy]

This thread took on an atmosphere that makes me uncomfortable. Here's why:

Posts here don't make a distinction between violent criminals invading our border and cheap labor who migrate to better job markets.

Stupid laws reacting to emotional issues criminalized the migrant workers. I live in california and see many migrant workers waiting outside of Home Depot and other do-it-yourself stores, waiting for a contractor to hire them. I realise not all of these workers have work permits. But I don't see them committing violent crimes. In fact, most of the contacts I had with these folks convinced me that they are decent, in spite of the language barrier.

The immigration laws need an overhaul. The codes need to be more humane and reasonable. Did you know that a legal permanent resident's spouse may NOT stay in the US unless the marriage took place before issueing the permanent residency? Put another way, A single-male permanent resident in the US will be barred from living with his wife if he weds a girl from his hometown :cuss:

Let me shift focus. I am a high-tech professional. I am also an immigrant with permanent residency. I am also waiting for the INS to process my naturalization. The INS would deport my wife just because we married after receiving my PR. Fortunately she found a job here as a consultant. But this means INS would deport her if she were to be a stay-at-home mom and INS foot-draggs my naturalization process.

Can anyone fault me if I lose patience with the government that unnecessarily complicates my life? How much worse would it be if I were an undereducated farm hand?

Would the folks in this thread really consider my wife a criminal should she quits her job, stays at home with me and our child-to-be? INS would tell you that she's an illegal alien because her VISA is valid only as long as she stays employed to the same employer.

I ask all to make a distinction between the violent criminals that invade our border and the regualr folks who just gets criminalized by PAPERWORK!

Thanks for listening.

[AZTOY]

Let me shift focus. I am a high-tech professional. I am also an immigrant with permanent residency. I am also waiting for the INS to process my naturalization.

YY if you did not have your papers would you cross the border with the rest of the illegals to get to this country ?:confused:

[yy]

AZTOY:

No, I would not travel across the border without papers.

But please focus on the part that INS would label my wife as a criminal (illegal alien) if INS delayed my citizenship, we have a baby before the paperwork for my wife can be finished, and she decides to be a stay-at-home mom.

I argue that the scores of migrant workers crossing the border without paper should be distinguished from the violent criminals crossing our borders, especially to commit more violent crime.

addition:
The act of crossing a border should not be a crime in and of itself. Especially not with NAFTA in place. I put to you (all) that border-crossing differs from trespassing on private property. Please distinguish between control over a border versus criminalizing people who cross borders without completing bureaucratic paperwork to get bureaucratic permission to pass through imaginary lines.

[ahenry]

But the INS / BP will be the ones that are going to be tasked with this if they outlaw the public at large from interfering with the ingress of illegals into our country. You’re gonna have to expound on that. It doesn’t make sense to me. :confused:

[Gila Jorge]

Grijalva: sounds like Southern Arizona has a wet in congress with the same name as one of the criminals that sprang the criminals out of San Diego...?! No wonder right thinking folks are concerned for their safety...this yahoo is probably working with his comrades on the other side...!

[clem]

YY.

You say:

"Can anyone fault me if I lose patience with the government that unnecessarily complicates my life?"

This is the government that is allowing you a new life.

This is a government that was attacked by illegals and suffered thousands killed and billions in damages.

And you are going to "lose patience"??????


You better step back, and sit down, and just think about what you are saying.

I don't understand you.

[jimpeel]

Posts here don't make a distinction between violent criminals invading our border and cheap labor who migrate to better job markets.You seem satisfied to simply allow unfettered access to anyone with the ability to walk across the border regardless of their intentions. The fact remains that a crime -- yes, a crime -- has been committed at the point they set the first foot over the border.The immigration laws need an overhaul. They were overhauled -- by the bleeding heart Liberals. Years ago, the state of California -- I'm a native CAnian so I know what I'm speaking about -- had a program called the Bracero Program. This allowed day workers to come across the border and work on the farms in the Imperial Valley and they were paid cash daily in Dollars.

Along came the bleeding hearts and started making waves about how these people were making less than minimum wage. They were making ~1.50/hr and the minimum wage was ~2.65 at the time. The EXCHANGE RATE, a concept that is totally alien to the bleeding hearts, was about 8:1 at that time. This meant that a Bracero worker was making 12 Pesos/hr, something that was unheard of in Mexico, but that just wasn't good enough for the bleeding hearts.

They kept demanding that the migrant workers be paid minimum wage and they started getting legislators on their side. Once they were successful in their efforts, the farmers simply stopped bringing the Braceros over and their jobs dried up. The bleeding hearts, however, thumped their chests and bragged about how they had elevated these people's status in life and how they were going to be so much better off due to their efforts. The reality, however, was that they were no better off and they now had no program and no jobs.

The same thing happened in the Kathy Lee Gifford debacle. The Machiadoras (pron. Mak-`ee-a-`do-das) of Guatemala were manufacturing her clothes. When the bleeding hearts found out, they started a campaign against her. Her husband went to Guatemala and started handing out fistfuls of cash to the "poor exploited workers" and the Machiadoras simply folded their tents and moved to another area -- Honduras as I recall. Their jobs were gone and the prices of all goods and services in the area went skyhigh as the large influx of cash from the Giffords became everyone's goal.

The bleeding hearts, however, thumped their chests and bragged about how they had elevated these people's status in life and how they were going to be so much better off due to their efforts. The reality, however, was that they were no better off and they now had no no jobs.

You sound like one of these people who, with goodness in their hearts, has been led astray with the "slave wage" rhetoric of the bleeding hearts and their constant drumbeat of how these people only make thirty cents an hour.

First, slaves don't make wages. That's what makes them slaves.

Second, there are exchange rates that have to be addressed that the bleeding hearts ignore. They know only the dollar and what it buys and expect the same to apply to all other currencys. To see what I mean, go to http://www.oanda.com/converter/classic and see what a Real, or Quetzal, or Peso, or Lempira exchanges for against the dollar.

1 US Dollar = 7.97140 Guatemalan Quetzal

1 US Dollar = 17.55700 Honduran Lempira

1 US Dollar = 10.55500 Mexican Peso

1 US Dollar = 3.32500 Brazilian Real

The current federal minimum wage is $5.15/hr.

In other words, a Mexican Migrant worker, if the program still existed and the wage was 1/2 the federal minimum wage, would be making 27.179125 Pesos / hr. They can't do that in Mexico.

Now, most people who post on boards such as these have all the complaints, all the arguments, all the lamentations, but have absolutely no answers to the problem.

I, however, have the answer to this problem and it is very simple.

Mexico should abandon the Peso and adopt the United States Dollar.