Decocker or safety on CZ for new pistol shooter.


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barnett25
November 26, 2007, 02:47 PM
I want to get a CZ 75 9mm for both my wife and myself to shoot. It will primarily be used at the range, although I intend to keep it handy for self defense. I would like the option of carrying it, but probably wont unless I know I will be heading into a bad part of town or something.

The CZ is available both in safety, and decocking (but not both) models. Being new to pistols I am not sure which way to go. The pistol I like best so far is the p01, but it is only available with a decocker. Is that a strike against it, or is that considered acceptable or even preferred (it looks like all of CZs new models are moving to this style)?

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jlbraun
November 26, 2007, 02:52 PM
I have the P01 and love it. The fact that the gun doesn't have a safety is neither a plus nor a minus. I just wanted my gun to fire every time the trigger is pulled. The heavy first shot trigger is the safety.

I don't like safeties on guns - some are flip up, some are flip down. Some are on the grip. Some are on the trigger guard. Some are on the slide. Some are on the frame.

No safety? Pull trigger. Bang. Dead simple and fast.

mikec
November 26, 2007, 02:53 PM
I don't like guns that will drop the hammer on a live round. I also don't like most double action trigger pulls. I have a 75B and it has a safety. I only once manually lower the hammer, at a range, to try the DA pull. I have no issue will a cocked and locked handgun. Of course, I cut my teeth on a Colt Lightweight Commander many years back.

jlbraun
November 26, 2007, 02:59 PM
I don't like guns that will drop the hammer on a live round.

All CZs have a decocker that will lower the hammer to half cock. The hammer never touches the firing pin.

barnett25
November 26, 2007, 03:09 PM
All CZs have a decocker that will lower the hammer to half cock. The hammer never touches the firing pin.
My impression was that the 75B does not have a decocker (only a internal firing pin safety which differentiates it from the original 75), while the 75 DB and most other 75s do.

CZF
November 26, 2007, 06:20 PM
The BD does, as well as the P-01/PCR and even SP-01 Tactical features a
decocker. Look for others models like the 97B to be offered with such in the near future.

PPGMD
November 26, 2007, 06:27 PM
I prefer safeties rather then decockers because then you can leave the pistol cocked and locked.

Technosavant
November 26, 2007, 06:46 PM
It is personal preference. With a safety, it is one other step to take before the firearm will fire, but you get the same trigger pull as the next few rounds (since it is already cocked). With a decocker, it will go BANG when you pull the trigger, but with the cost of a longer first trigger pull.

I have a P-01, and I like the decocker.

JDGray
November 26, 2007, 06:50 PM
If you like to tinker on your own guns, the safety version will be easier to work on. I want a PCR with a safety:)

armoredman
November 26, 2007, 06:52 PM
I like the half cock notch on my PO1, doesn't have the loooong trigger pull some associate with DA, but isn't cocked and locked, requiring a safety to be disengaged before shooting. Cocked and Locked is fast, if you train with it a LOT, and don't use a differant system half the time. Jeff Cooper liked the original CZ75 because it CAN be carried C&L.
I like decockers, but I manually decocked my EAA Witness for 13+ years with not one negligent discharge.

Liko81
November 26, 2007, 08:27 PM
When I bought my Ruger, there was concern that the only model available with a safety was the display model; the ones in the safe were DC. For me, that would have been a deal breaker. The safety is easy enough to disengage while drawing, and if you chamber the first round (practically a must for CCWs) it's a must, as the gun is ready to fire, double-action or not, if the safety is disengaged or doesn't exist. It's the reason I don't like Glocks, because not only can the integrated trigger lock fail, it's a "1 1/2 action" weapon; the gun is partially cocked at rest, giving a lighter trigger pull. Draw the weapon incorrectly and you could very easily shoot yourself in the foot.

LanEvo`
November 26, 2007, 08:39 PM
I have a CZ-97B, which is the .45 ACP version of the 75B. Basically, it has the same manual of arms as the classic M1911 and P35 Hi Power (both designed by J. M. Browning). I don't carry my 97B. But if I did, I would carry it cocked and locked.

I would never even think about dropping the hammer on a live round without a decocker, so cocked and locked is the only safe way to carry a loaded CZ-75B.

murph50
November 26, 2007, 09:11 PM
The P01 is the first gun I've owned with a decocker. At first I wasn't sure about that but I actually like it more than a safety now. Being that the gun is SA/DA I feel totally comfortable carrying in the decocked position. I've been carrying the P01 all day today and it's on my hip right now.
For me I feel that this is safer for carrying than one of my other guns cocked and locked. The DA trigger pull from the decocked position is not bad at all and I don't have to worry about a safety being bumped or snagged into the off position.
My P01 was a very good investment

Soybomb
November 26, 2007, 09:54 PM
Personally I'd get the decocker only model. I like knowing my guns fire when the trigger is pulled.

The Lone Haranguer
November 26, 2007, 10:07 PM
I chose, for my first:);) CZ, a 75D Compact PCR, which has a decocker. But there are advantages and disadvantages to both setups.

If you wish to carry a model with a safety in DA-first-shot/hammer down mode, you must first lower the hammer manually on a loaded chamber by pulling the trigger and guiding the hammer down with the thumb of your other hand. It is possible to fire the chambered round if you slip or otherwise fumble. Because the trigger reach on an uncocked CZ is also too long for me, I would just carry a safety model "cocked and locked."

A decocker model, when the hammer is lowered by the lever (which is very well placed and easy to use, BTW), has its hammer sitting at about a "quarter cock" position. (It does not drop the hammer directly on the live round, unless some improbable cascade of failures were to occur.) This shortens the trigger reach and stroke, enabling it to work for me.

3 gun
November 26, 2007, 10:33 PM
All CZ's DO NOT have a decocker. All CZ's DO NOT have a half cock notch. For the uses you have outlined a decocker would not be a major downside and would most likely be the safer way to go. To really be safe you should lower the hammer with your off hand thumb while holding down the decocker. That way you prevent the small, small chance of the hammer reaching the firing pin if the block fails within the pistol. I've seen a couple of surplus pistols with decock levers fire when used and have grown to be very careful about trusting them.

briang2ad
November 26, 2007, 10:34 PM
They also come with a decocker! Your thumb and/or forefinger. With practice, it can be safer than the decocker (which only has ONE hammer claw holding the hammer back vice two on the manual safety model).

AND, you can carry locked and cocked, which you CANNOT do with the decocker model.

AND... the safety models usually have better triggers OTB.

AND... the safety model is MUCH easier to work on in case you have to work on it yourself, or have a gunsmith slicken it up.

Its ALL ABOUT the original CZ 75 design.

Ans if we ALL would get the better CZs, and by-pass these decocker wannabeeCZs, CZ just ight make the ULTIMATE 9mm - the PCR with a MANUAL SAFETY! (Maybe P01).

OK - a little hyperbole, but you get the point. GO MANUAL SAFETY!

DWARREN123
November 27, 2007, 02:45 AM
I have a CZ 75 Compact 9mm (Satin Nickle) and it has the safety (no decocker). Accurate and handles very well, it is all steel which I like.
I carret in condition II which is round in the chamber and lowered hammer.

mikec
November 27, 2007, 03:55 AM
Technically I don't think that is truly condition II since the gun is a SA/DA design. All you have to do is pull the trigger whereas on a 1911 or BHP you would have to cock the hammer first then pull trigger. Yes, we are splitting hairs here.

barnett25
November 27, 2007, 09:14 AM
My wife is leaning toward a manual safety because that is what she is used to on other guns. And I may try to do some trigger work on the pistol, although I have heard it is very difficult, and I have only worked on a Ruger 10/22.

I wish CZ had a P01 in manual safety, it seems like they only offer their older pistols with that option though.

Anyone care to weigh in on how much I would be losing by going with a 75B instead of a P01 (other than size of course)? I know they made improvements to get it to pass the requirements made for the gun, but is it that much better?

peteinct
November 27, 2007, 11:06 AM
Barnett, I prefer the CZs with the safety although it is personal preferance. I have 4 with the safety and 2 with the decocker. It seems to me that the triggers are better on the safety models but I am not sure why.

Some people act like manually lowering a hammer is harder than nuclear physics and more dangerous than being married to O J Simpson. It just takes care that's all. The hammer doesn't seem to have as much spring power as a 1911 and it has a half cock notch that it won't go past if the trigger isn't being pulled.

I really don't think it is that big a deal to get a safety equipped model.
pete

I prefer my 75 over my P-01 because the grips are a little short for my hands. There is a 75 compact model which may be more similiar in size to the P-01. The P-01 frame is aluminum which makes it lighter and so it isn't as good for me to use in competition. So I don't think you lose anything.
pete

Edward Nigma
November 27, 2007, 08:59 PM
Why do most mentioned decocker guns like the P01 like there is no option to fire the first shot in single action? I simply draw the hammer back with my thumb, and the first shot in my P01 is single action.

briang2ad
November 27, 2007, 09:22 PM
[QUOTE]Anyone care to weigh in on how much I would be losing by going with a 75B instead of a P01 (other than size of course)? I know they made improvements to get it to pass the requirements made for the gun, but is it that much better?/QUOTE]

If you go with the Compact, you lose nothing but a little weight, and a light rail. If you go full size, you gain more weight and size. IN terms of durability or quality, you likely lose nothing. The P01 supposedly has some improved manufacturing techniques. OK. I don't think this means much in terms of real performance. I do believe that P01 triggers are WORSE OTB than Bs. They tend to have gritty DA triggers. And... as I said before, they are MUCH harder to work on. You just don't hear of people detail stripping them, etc.

BTW - I had three different P01s - all had gritty triggers. I now stay clear of CZ decockers. MAYBE, if I found a used one at a great price, and its trigger was good - I might get it. I do like the shape and feel.

CZ REALLY needs to make a P01 with a manual safety! (But, they tend to ignore market desires).

Walt Sherrill
November 27, 2007, 09:40 PM
All CZs have a decocker that will lower the hammer to half cock. The hammer never touches the firing pin.

This statement has already been corrected. The decocker CZs have a lever that will lower the hammer to half cock -- but more importantly, all modern CZs (the "B" models) have a firing pin block that functions at all times UNLESS the trigger is pulled fully to the rear. So with a Decocker CZ, there's no risk of a hammer drop causing a discharge -- unless its caused by a pulled trigger.

All modern CZ-75Bs (or B-based models and, maybe, the DAO model) have a half-cock notch. (Not sure about the DAO version.)

Only some of the earliest 75s (not Bs) didn't have a half-cock notch. I had one of them. All of the decocker models decock to half-cock which is their normal start/carry position. The non-decocker models can also be safely carried that way (with a shorter and lighter pull) -- but it doesn't work too well for a SA model. <grin>

SDDL-UP
November 28, 2007, 01:45 AM
Get a safety model. You should learn how to properly decock a handgun anyway.

Morgan
November 28, 2007, 06:22 AM
A proper (thumbs high) grip on a decocker model CZ will render it useless. Get the standard model.

A.ENGIN IDEMEN
November 28, 2007, 07:12 AM
I have been decocking manually my CZ75B to the half cock notch for years without any AD / ND. I like the longer DA first shot without manupulating any safety lever with consequent SA shots. I also like the DA mode of the CZ to the other clones of it, since it can not be locked in DA mode. I also like to use the manual safety at the range to keep the pistol always safely in the SA mode between the strings.
So, if I were in your shoes, I would not ignore an additional condition one capability.
Best.

rbernie
November 28, 2007, 08:59 AM
I would not ignore an additional condition one capability.This sums up all I typed (an d deleted when this was posted).

:)

Treo
December 1, 2007, 12:10 AM
I'm surprised no one else brought this up, but the first thing that caught my eye was the statement that you are planning to only carry when you go to "a bad part of town" . I am a firm believer that you either always carry or never carry. that said the decocker/ manual safety question is a matter of prefference. I prefer a manual safety . I don't like the idea of releasing a hammer over a live round, sorry say what you want it only needs to go wrong once. I cut my teeth on a 1911, so its second nature for me to flip the safety off as I draw . whatever you decide I would recomend that both you & your spouse get pistols W/ similar safeties so that should you have to grab your wifes pistol in the middle of the night ( or vice versa) you don't lose time thinking about which way the safety works .

Deacon Blues
December 1, 2007, 01:19 AM
I too believe that it is a matter of preference more than anything. I personally feel safer having a long DA trigger pull between me and the big bang than a manual safety. Ever experienced the horror of finding that something tripped your safety while it was in the holster? I have, not that it's a common occurrence. I also feel more comfortable using a dococking lever than [seemingly] risking my thumb; that operation has always made me sweat a little. :o

Remember, humans are primarily emotional, not rational. These kinds of decisions usually bear that out.

Pilot
December 1, 2007, 11:01 AM
I have both in a 75B and PCR. Toss a coin, but if you must choose I'd get the safety model first.

jon_in_wv
January 21, 2008, 10:54 AM
If you are only going to carry at a certain part of town, than DON'T go there! My father asked me why I carried a gun all the time and why I just don't carry if I thought something was going to happen. I told him if I thought something was going to happen, I'd stay home! The bottom line is your don't KNOW when something is going to happen so you need to carry all the time. Besides, if you go to court and say you only carried in a certain part of town it may look like you were hunting for trouble. If you thought you needed a gun, why would you go there? The best answer is to avoid trouble. I know where the bad part of town is. I don't go there.

easyg
January 21, 2008, 02:44 PM
I recommend the SA manual safety model.
The single-action trigger is very nice and makes for extremely accurate shooting.
And since the safety is of the frame mounted and flip-down type, your thumb will naturally rest on the flipped down safety lever when preparing to fire.
After just a few range sessions it will become so easy that you will not even have to think about flipping the safety off.

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