357 sig kabooom


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Haycreek
November 26, 2007, 04:01 PM
Well, I thought that it would never happen to me, but the second round of a new handload kaboomed my trusty Glock 31. I haven't had the opportunity to check everthing yet, but I will. I have reloaded over a dozen different calibers, for over forty years, I use a single stage RCBS setup. I have been using a balance bar type scale, but this was my first batch that was weighed on an new electronic Lyman scale. I didn't double check the weight against my old scale. The load was : New PMC brass, PMC 125 fmj bullet and 9 grains of AA 5 powder[ 9.2 grains is the max]. After loading the rounds, they were run through a Lee factory die and the die was set "light" according to the directions. I know the case sizes in the chamber and I was careful not to crimp. Because I use the old slow one stage press, I have time to visually check the powder level in each case before seating the bullet. When this round fired, the mag was blown partially out, the slide was partially open because the complete case head was separated from the case body, and I found the extractor six feet behind me on the range floor. The handgun is fairly new. I will completely strip the pistol later today when time permits. The PMC bullets and cases were recently purchased from Midway USA. This is the first mishap like this that has happened to me. Any comments or suggestions [other than sticking with my 1911's ]

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usp_fan
November 26, 2007, 04:45 PM
kB!'d a G22. Failure was directly over the feedramp. Was shooting reloads at the time--the cause wasn't an overcharge. The gun did contain the failure fairly well. Glock offered to allow me to purchase a replacement at "cost"--at the time about @ $215. They were also nice enough to return my night sights.

Sold the night sights to a friend with a glock. Sold the new pistol. Purchased a pistol with a fully supported chamber.

JDGray
November 26, 2007, 04:45 PM
Sorry to here that.:o
A few things, Was the new brass trimmed? and was the oal long? Sounds like it fired slightly out of battery. The .357 sig round has very little neck area to give good neck tension, and I would give each round the push test. Your scale may just be off, and loaded em to hot, .2 grains is awfull close to max, for a start load.

Scorpiusdeus
November 26, 2007, 04:55 PM
The good news is Glock will blame you so it will still be your "trusty" Glock. ;)

AndyC
November 26, 2007, 04:58 PM
My guess is bullet setback.

browningguy
November 26, 2007, 05:00 PM
The good news is Glock will blame you so it will still be your "trusty" Glock.

As well they should, I believe Glock, as do almost all other manufacturers, says the warranty is invalid if using reloads. I reload for rifles, but not for any pistols. So if one of the rifles blows up I know there is no warranty, 'cause it's probably my fault.

wally
November 26, 2007, 05:48 PM
and I was careful not to crimp.

????


My guess is bullet setback

In light of the above, and the near max load done with an uncalibrated scale being used for the first time, I'd bet on it!

--wally

Haycreek
November 26, 2007, 05:58 PM
My OAL was 1.135, which is the same OAL that the PMC factory loads are loaded. Firing out of battery is a possiblilty, I did the press test, the bullets would not slip even before the Lee FCD tightened them. Well, so far the 45 GAP and the 100 and the 9mm are not likely to kaboom. I have a fully supported match barrel for the 40 S&W. I"ll have to admit, some confidence has been lost !!!

10-Ring
November 26, 2007, 06:01 PM
When I blew up my 21, I sent it back to Glock...they repaired it and the cost to me was for the new barrel, they pd shipping and I got a couple new mags to boot.
Really, the only real reasons I hear of kb! is from reloads/ bad ammo, not the gun -- ask Glock! ;)

wally
November 26, 2007, 06:09 PM
Firing out of battery is a gun problem. Good luck getting Glock to admit it!

Dirt, crud, bad ammo, many things can prevent the gun from going into full lockup, its the designers job to insure the gun does not fire if such happens.

--wally.

Haycreek
November 26, 2007, 06:32 PM
The pistol had just been cleaned. I fired one round, held the trigger back, and fired the second round of a controlled pair from trigger reset position. I have examined the case head/firing pin under magnification, and one end of the primer indent is somewhat different, possibly fired out of battery. I'm still looking.

JDGray
November 26, 2007, 06:37 PM
My OAL was 1.135, which is the same OAL that the PMC factory loads are loaded.

This is always a good practice. If you can get your gun apart, drop a few of your reloads into the barrel, to see if any hang out. They should go in flush. I like taking a empy fired case, finger start a bullet, and push it into the chamber letting the rifling seat the bullet. Measure the mocked up cartridge and subtract .010, uses that as your max oal for that bullet type.

jfh
November 26, 2007, 07:04 PM
I had a Glock 20 blowup shortly after that model came out.

Yes, it was a reload. Since it was a recipe and charge that I had built 1000s of times and shot in a SA Omega, I am reasonably convinced the problem was neither an overcharged case nor setback--that it was probably caused by the "lead" problem with (certain Manufacturer's) polygonal rifling--namely Glocks.

In mine, the chamber and barrel split at the 4:00 position, and the venting twisted the slide off the frame and launched it over my left shoulder. All parts of the pistol were too damaged to repair.

While I still have it, I lost my interest in shooting Glocks, and I sold the others I owned.

Just to compare--I had a reloading "incident" this summer that ended up with me shooting a cylinderful of overcharged cases in my S&W 640 j-frame. As near as I can tell, there was 17 to 18 gr. of AA#7 under a 135-gr. bullet in a 38 Special case.

I fired all five shots--and had to rap the cases out, etc., etc. I even shot another 75 rounds or so before my gunsmith could examine it. The cylinder was stretched--so I sent it in to S&W, explained what happened, and waited.

They replaced the cylinder and barrel and shipped it back to me--no charge.

Jim H.

AK103K
November 26, 2007, 07:58 PM
I use 13 grains of AA #9 for my 357SIG reloads. It fills the case completely and is compressed. There is no chance of setback and I've never had a loose bullet. Its a pretty hot load and shoots just like the factory ammo I shoot.

I've also used around 11 grains of AA #7, which also pretty much fills the case and gives about the same result.

chilic82
November 26, 2007, 08:17 PM
Hmmm...Maybe this is the reason Glocks states not to use reloads.

JDGray
November 26, 2007, 08:34 PM
Hmmm...Maybe this is the reason Glocks states not to use reloads.

Reloads are just as safe as factory ammo, and no gun manufacturer is going to recommend them. Its to easy to make a mistake. I've run thousands of reloads through several Glocks, without a problem. Overlook one thing, one time, and you get what we have here.

sniper350
November 26, 2007, 09:13 PM
Chambers which are NOT fully supported as with a Glock ....just doesn't allow for any errors at all when it comes to re-loading.

That's been the problem ...........why Glock has not made a design change to include fully supported chambers is beyond me. When the company was new , I could see the reluctance to re-tool and change your design. But they certainly can afford this "change" at this point in their History.

When you reach chamber pressures approaching 27,000 psi ......the slightest problem with Brass or bullet set back or over powder .......... and bad things are going to happen with chambers that expose some of the cartridge's casing to the outside world.

It's really not the pistol ........... but they [Glock ] do receive a lot of bad press when KB's occur. Basically it requires you to be perfect when loading ammo .............and there in lies the rub .........nobodys perfect !! :banghead:

JF.

351 WINCHESTER
November 26, 2007, 10:47 PM
+ 1 on supported chambers

FM12
November 27, 2007, 12:18 AM
Pull 5 to 10 of the remaining reloads and check the powder charge of each one and write it down. Check for variations, and consider pulling all if you need to.

eldon519
November 27, 2007, 01:06 AM
I think the 357 SIG Glocks do have fully supported chambers.

Regardless, Glocks really do not handle over-pressure situations well. They don't seem to have nearly as much of a safety margin as most modern handguns out there.

Eightball
November 27, 2007, 01:14 AM
the near max load done with an uncalibrated scale being used for the first timeThat would be my guess as to the problem right there. Check against your old scale to make sure crap like this doesn't happen. One time, loading with a new powder of unkown density, I dropped it in the case, and just knew it didn't sit right, so I weighed the charge on a different scale, and discovered that the scale I was using was WAY off. Woulda been a kB of monumental proportions.

Haycreek
November 27, 2007, 02:32 PM
Just looking at the Glock 31 , it appears that no damage was done. The small trigger disconnect spring that sits on a plunger is lost. I found the extractor. I have ordered a new spring, and will detail strip the part today. I plan to pull some bullets and weigh the powder with my old scale. The primer hit is a little off center, but is a good imprint, it did not likely fire out of battery. No doubt that it was an overload. Other reloaded rounds fall right into the chamber completely. I bet that it would not have happened in a Gen 3 S&W or a Ruger.:)

JDGray
November 27, 2007, 03:56 PM
I bet that it would not have happened in a Gen 3 S&W or a Ruger.


I wouldn't lay my money on that bet:scrutiny:

1 old 0311
November 27, 2007, 04:29 PM
Isn't it funny how the 1911 has been around for 97 years, and the Hi Power has been around 72 years, BUT the only pistols you read about blowing up are the 20 year old Glocks? Wonder why?:what:

mjrodney
November 27, 2007, 05:37 PM
I bet that it would not have happened in a Gen 3 S&W or a Ruger.

I wouldn't lay my money on that bet

I would have to go with the bet.

These forums are an equal opportunity medium, and one would think that we would see a balanced number of branded blow ups, but we don't.

It just seems to me that the unsupported barrels and the polygonal rifling of certain brands takes center stage far more often than their more traditional brethern.

Isn't it funny how the 1911 has been around for 97 years, and the Hi Power has been around 72 years, BUT the only pistols you read about blowing up are the 20 year old Glocks?

I've seen photos of blown revolvers in the past few years, but not pistols with fully supported barrels and traditional rifling, at least not that I recall.

sniper350
November 27, 2007, 06:17 PM
No doubt that it was an overload.

That should be an easy call ............. is there signs of "primer Flow" ????

That is just one of the signs of over pressure that reloaders pay attention to.

I would guess you had a weak piece of brass ...........and the casing ruptured......... usually with an over load of powder, you have a pretty good amount of damage done to the pistol's magazine area. The Glock's unsupported chambers will not tolerate a weak piece of brass........ !!


JF.

Soybomb
November 27, 2007, 06:23 PM
Isn't it funny how the 1911 has been around for 97 years, and the Hi Power has been around 72 years, BUT the only pistols you read about blowing up are the 20 year old Glocks? Wonder why?
Oddly enough I saw a 1911 damaged by a bad reload last time I was at the range.

1911 - Now made with magic metal that withstands over pressure!

AK103K
November 27, 2007, 06:46 PM
Isn't it funny how the 1911 has been around for 97 years, and the Hi Power has been around 72 years, BUT the only pistols you read about blowing up are the 20 year old Glocks? Wonder why?
I think a more realistic look at this would be from about the time Glock showed up on the market. Thats about the time that hotter, defensive type handgun ammo started showing up in earnest.

Before then, the 1911 and HP's were basically fed standard ball ammo. The only real hot stuff that might have been used in them was not made for them at all, that being ammo loaded at higher pressures for SMG's.

The question is, what are the percentages of 1911's and HP's that have also had failures using hot ammo since? You also dont see to many 1911's in .40, and while available, you dont see to many HP's in .40. Narrow it down even more and whats the percentage of failures in those guns?

Golddog
November 27, 2007, 07:08 PM
I've personally witnessed two 1911's kaboomed with overcharged reloads from a professional reloader.

I absolutely will not use reloads in a semi-auto. Autos do not contain blown ammo as well as revolvers do.

AK103K
November 27, 2007, 07:12 PM
you mean like this?

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/coltanaconda-tm.jpg

http://www.leadbucket.com/gunsmithing/stampedefix/StampedeImages/StampedeBeforePics/P1010030.JPG

eldon519
November 27, 2007, 08:09 PM
I think a more realistic look at this would be from about the time Glock showed up on the market. Thats about the time that hotter, defensive type handgun ammo started showing up in earnest.

Before then, the 1911 and HP's were basically fed standard ball ammo. The only real hot stuff that might have been used in them was not made for them at all, that being ammo loaded at higher pressures for SMG's.



Not so much with the .45 ACP, but with 9mm and many other calibers, the trend has been to download ammo over the years to please lawyers. European ammo 9mm is also often loaded hotter than American ammo. The modern 9mm has it pretty easy compared to the Luger.

Haycreek
November 27, 2007, 08:13 PM
I have not detail stripped the slide or frame yet. The primer was flat, but has no overflow. Now for the "rest of the story", I called Midway USA, and told them what happened. The fellow was very polite, and will take the into to a higher level supervisor, and make things right. He mentioned also, that I was not the first one to complain about this batch of brass from PMC. It sounds at this point like, "below standard brass" from PMC. I will send the PMC brass back to them , I am reluctant to load any more. From my Lyman Reloading manual, the starting load is 8.5 of AA#5 and the max load is 9.5 grains. I loaded 9.0 Grains, right in the center. OAL was according to the Lyman manual. BAD BRASS !

Haycreek
November 27, 2007, 09:47 PM
I have detail stripped the slide, replaced the missing spring and extractor, everything is back to normal--------GLOCK PERFECTION :) No damage at all to the Glock. I will stay away from PMC ammo.

Haycreek
November 30, 2007, 08:50 PM
I have always held "Midway USA" in high regard, but listen to the "rest of the story"
I contacted Midway USA via telephone, a explained a kaboom to my Glock 31, which separated the case body from the case head, and disabled my Glock. He said that he would have to clear everything with a supervisor, but he was sure "they would make it right". I was happy. I had purchaced 500 primed PMC cases with 500 "free" fmj bullets, at a good price. He said that he would have the answer for me within 48 hours or less. He responded with a negative answer via e-mail. I talked to two "supervisors" Who said for me to take it up with PMC, that Midway USA was not responsible. I feel like my deal was with Midway USA, and THEY could take it up with PMC, since a big company like Midway USA would have more influence than myself. I have learned since then that Midway purchased the primed cases and bullets from Southern Ammo. The PMC ammo was pulled and sold unloaded to Midway USA, for some reason. safety ???? Looks liked I will be out the dollors, and no one will accept respondsibity. I offered to be happy if Midway USA would exchange the remaining 498 PMC cases for an equal number of Winchester brass and primers. The said no deal. I don't plan on taking a chance with the other 498 new, primed brass.

JDGray
November 30, 2007, 10:06 PM
I remember seeing a deal somewhere, if you buy the new brass they will sell you pull down bullets for cheap. You didn't get in on that deal, did you?

Nevermind, I just reread your thread, and just answered my question.

FM12
December 1, 2007, 12:19 AM
Did you ever pull some other rounds and check the powder weight?

XD-40 Shooter
December 1, 2007, 12:22 PM
The chances of a kaboom on an XD is also very slim. The XD's have a very well supported chamber, that's why I own one, have reloaded 5000 rounds for it, medium range target loads, absolutely no problems whatsoever.:D I've also put some "max" loads through it, again no problems.:D

Haycreek
December 2, 2007, 08:04 PM
Bullets were pulled, Powder was exact, OAL was exact. The PMC brass appears to be weak.

AK103K
December 2, 2007, 08:10 PM
He mentioned also, that I was not the first one to complain about this batch of brass from PMC.
It would be interesting to hear if there were other problems with the brass, what make of firearms they were what had them.

NC-Mike
December 2, 2007, 10:10 PM
No damage at all to the Glock. I will stay away from PMC ammo.

So there was really no kaboom at all?

Haycreek
December 3, 2007, 12:38 PM
Yes, there was a kaboom, blew the mag out, blew the extractor several feet behind me, blew the case head completely from the brass body, the end of the brass that was attatched to the case head was spread out and form fitted to the ramp. stung my hand, and reminded me that I was glad to have been wearing shooting safety glasses. I would call that a kabooom. :) I found the extractor, detail stripped everything to look for cracks etc, and reassymbled the pieces, and it shoots like a new one. Some folks would call that Glock perfection !!! Not me though, my 1911's have never kabooomed, thanks partially to the low pressure of the 45 ACP. [and JMB design.]

Ceemack
December 3, 2007, 04:12 PM
When I read threads like this I don't know whether to laugh or cry.

First of all, just about every type of firearm experiences "kabooms". I've seen photos of revolvers that blew out part of their cylinders. I've heard reports of high-end 1911s going "kaboom". Bad ammo (specifically, ammo that produces too much pressure) is almost always the culprit.

Second, unless you've got a 1911 with a ramped barrel you don't have a "fully supported" chamber, period. Every centerfire semiauto leaves part of the chamber unsupported. Want a "fully supported" chamber? Buy a revolver.

Third, the Glock's chamber isn't "unsupported". All but a tiny area of the case is supported. Some designs leave a little less of the case exposed than Glock barrels, but the actual difference between the different designs is quite small.

Fourth, the vast majority of KBs in semiauto pistols are with the .40 S&W (or with its derivative, the .357 SIG). These rounds operate at much higher peak pressures than either the .45 ACP or the 9mm Para, leaving less margin for error. Anybody care to guess which manufacturer sells more guns in those two calibers than anybody else?

Fifth, the few actual photos I've seen of KB'd Glocks show that the chamber split, the top of the barrel peeling away from the bottom. This indicates excessive chamber pressure (pronounced "double charge"), not a case rupture.

I've put many thousands of rounds through 9mm and .45 Glocks and never experienced a KB or a ruptured case. I've never even seen a "Glock bulge".

One of these days I may break down and buy a G22 just so I can put a few thousand reloads through it and lay all these myths to rest.

Zoogster
December 3, 2007, 05:04 PM
People are quick to complain about the lack of a fully supported chamber. Then they speak of reliability on the other hand, wanting to be sure thier firearm will go boom each and every time if thier life depends on it.

Well the fully supported chamber slightly decreases the reliability of the feed. More bullet designs will get caught, and the pistol will fail to cycle more often.
Glocks have one of the lowest rates of failing to cycle in my experience.

I would not feel confident in reloading hot ammo in a Glock, using instead a revolver or at least a heavily built steel frame auto. Yet many people do. With a fully supported aftermarket barrel you gain some safety, and lose some reliability or versatility in ammunition (although you gain some with the ability to use non jacketed rounds). If you are pushing the limits and may have a kaboom, then you may feel safer with some steel between your hand and the exploding round. Don't be stupid reloading with any firearm, but be less bold with a plastic one.

I would however not hesitate to count on a stock Glock to cycle in a gun fight using ammo operating at appropriate pressures. A problem can still occur, either with the ammo or a worn part on the firearm, but your chances of a functional firearm not cycling are greatly reduced compared to many other pistols.
The less supported chamber directly contributes to increased reliability in feeding. Relying on a round to precisely feed into an opening exactly the same diameter leaves no room for imperfections or irregularities in ammunition, or allowances for debris, meaning you are more likely to need to rack and tap mid firefight. That could cost you your life. To compensate there is less support in a Glock barrel, providing a very reliable "funnel" so to speak to feed into.

Some Glocks however are more dangerous than others. This is because the dimensions were originaly designed for 9mm and 10mm with all other calibers using either a 9mm or 10mm frame. So for some other calibers the feed ramp can be at a greater angle requiring even less chamber support to reliably feed them.

jeepmor
December 4, 2007, 07:40 AM
The primer hit is a little off center, but is a good imprint, it did not likely fire out of battery.

Unless this is normal, slightly out of battery could explain the offcenter strike.

As for Midway, I can't say they shouldn't support their product, however, whatever they do, I would call them back and encourage them to pull that lot of brass off the shelves and have it destroyed, recycled, whatever.


The case head being blown completely off inidicates a brass failure to me, not a gun issue. Everything else I've seen images of has been a blow out on the side of the case, indicating the out of battery argument.

As for you guys who think things won't fire out of battery, try this. Take your gun, safely empty, and use a matchstick or something to put a small gap between the breech and chamber, pull the trigger. Most will still strike. You can use feeler gages to find where that go no-go point is. I know my Taurus guns will fire with some gap between the barrel and breech not being 100% closed, I suspect others will too. If not, try it and chime back in.

Do the test, see for yourself, I think it may actually open your eyes with a simple and realistic empirical test. You may want to put some tape or paper of some sort, like the sticky face of a post it, to see if the firing pin actually punches out of the firing pin hole. I suspect the hammer or striker will do it's thing and make you think it's executed a firing sequence, but the block may actually be doing it's job and physically blocking the firing pin from striking a primer.

Those of you with both a Glock and 1911 and any other brand you see boasted about in here, give it a try and chime in. Unless you do that, I don't put much creedence in anything but hard data. Sure, your gun may have never had an issue, but that just doesn't hold a whole lot of water with me. I come from the land of engineering, data is king. We have conversations like what occurred in this thread, then we go run some tests to find out if we're talking smack or really know what we're talking about.

No NASA engineer ever thought foam would punch a hole in the side of the space shuttle, none of them....but it did, they all stood there amazed, and humbled. So, experience is a worthy starting point, but the data is the decider.

jon_in_wv
December 12, 2007, 09:18 AM
Glocks are 100% reliable. The never break or malfunction. Your guns were obviously not Glocks.

Babalouie
December 12, 2007, 01:06 PM
Wow, this is the very first time I ever heard Midway didn't make something right. They should, at the very least, exchange the product dollar for dollar. Maybe the good write up in Guns & ammo went to their head

mec
December 12, 2007, 06:41 PM
Ive seen some glock kabooms and near kabooms (very pregnant 10mm case) with factory ammunition.
One day at the range, a local detective was shooting a glock 9mm. His department had been tracking glock blowups around the state and finding quite a few- blaimed by glock in every case on the ammo. I said, " Isn't it interesting that there aren't any problems with the 9mm/ .45acp?"

A few minutes later, he said, "Remember what you said?" Then showed me a 9mm case split at the head and bulging on one side(rampside). It didn't blow but it kind of wanted too. The case stuck in the chamber. Ammunition was Winchester Western white box ball.

GaryP
December 12, 2007, 07:38 PM
Well, I thought that it would never happen to me, but the second round of a new handload kaboomed my trusty Glock 31.

I am not a Glock fan due to those unsupported chambers, but everytime I see a KaBoom with a handload, regardless of weapon manufacturer -- I wonder about the load! :what:


:evil:

eldon519
December 12, 2007, 07:47 PM
I wouldn't expect Midway to fix things for you if your handload kaBooms. They have no control over what you do with the components. For all they know, you could have packed the round with a compressed load of Bullseye.

skipjack
December 12, 2007, 08:30 PM
Handloads are not the only type ammo that can be loaded out of spec. Factory ammo can and does contain errors in production that can cause damage to a firearm. It is, after all, a mass produced commodity. Granted, it is the exception, but the possibility exists.

eldon519
December 12, 2007, 10:58 PM
I don't disagree with you, but as I understand it, this kB occurred with a handload.

jon_in_wv
December 13, 2007, 04:50 PM
I think we all understand that both factory and hand loaded ammo can be loaded out of spec. With the amount of ammo most manufacturers are churning out I'm sure it is also going to be more common to find ammo out of spec. I check mine thoroughly.

The unsupported chamber is the true issue. A fully supported chamber provides a measure of safety and is less prone to mechanical failure than an unsupported chamber. Glocks are particularly vulnerable to Kabooms because the use a deeply cut ramp and a loose chamber. If a case ruptures the hot gases are vented to the bottom towards the ammo in your hand. This was particularly dangerous when the mags (and grip) were almost all plastic. This provided very little protection for you hand. I believe Glock uses steel lines mags now. This is an improvement but they really need provide fully supported chambers thier high pressure rounds like the .40, 357 SIG, and the 45 GAP. I haven't heard about too many problems with the 9mms and 45s.

jon_in_wv
December 13, 2007, 04:53 PM
Here is an example of a case rupture I had with my CZ52. It was very high velocity and high pressure ammo. I believe it was Czech surplus. In a gun with an unsupported chamber this could have been ugly. As it was, I didn't even know this rupture had occurred until I picking up the brass and noticed the split in the case.

wally
December 15, 2007, 04:37 PM
In a gun with an unsupported chamber this could have been ugly. As it was, I didn't even know this rupture had occurred until I picking up the brass and noticed the split in the case.

The split shown is in the neck area, these are pretty much harmless in any gun and means the brass has hit its end of life as a cartridge and is ready for recycling.

Now if all your brass is doing this, you need to get the gun checked, but any reloader sees these eventually.

--wally.

AK103K
December 15, 2007, 05:36 PM
You also see them in older military surplus rounds, and especially with hotter rounds like the 7.62x25. Its not unusual at all. I doubt that an unsupported chamber in that case would have been an issue either.

jon_in_wv
December 16, 2007, 02:41 AM
possibly. But which would you rather have something like that happen in? My M&P has a nicely supported chamber. I prefer it over any Glock.

AK103K
December 16, 2007, 10:14 AM
I'd rather it not happen in anything, but if you shoot a round like that and use ammo like that, its going to happen (like that) in anything you shoot.

I've had it happen with reloaded brass in a couple of calibers, mostly .45 and 9mm, and especially when using nickeled brass. You normally dont even know it happened until you hear the funny "clinking" sound when you pick them up and they bang into the rest of the brass in your hand.

I really dont think a case split like that would have turned a Glock into a hand grenade, any more than it would your M&P or my SIG.

My bet with the Glock is that it was in fact the reload. Its been my experience that most failures due to ammo are. If your loading for something that tends to be picky or prone to this sort of thing, you just have to take a little extra care or shoot factory ammo. If you reload enough, sooner or later or going to have some sort of issue, and hopefully, its doesnt involve the word "boom".

wuchak
December 16, 2007, 10:43 AM
I think Midway is right. You need to take it up with manufacturer, not the retailer. Even Cabela's who will let you return anything no matter how long you've had and abused it (you should see some of the stuff in the Bargain Cave), will not take back reloading supplies and ammo. There is no way for them to tell if it was your loading technique (most likely in most cases) or the components that failed. They are not staffed to take up these cases on your behalf with the manufacturers.

Double Naught Spy
December 16, 2007, 08:31 PM
never mind

jon_in_wv
December 16, 2007, 10:58 PM
AK103. I didn't say my case split would turn a a Glock into a hand grenade. There is no need to over dramatize my point. My point was only that things do happen. Cases fail. And I prefer a gun with a supported chamber. Glock should fix this with their weapons rather than deny it, blame the user, or blame the ammo. It CAN happen with any weapon, but when you see a prevailing trend with one family of weapons it is something that should be addressed.

Haycreek
January 1, 2008, 12:40 PM
The ka-boom in my G 31 was PMC case failure, no damage to the Glock. Pistol was inspected by Glock in Smyrer GA. Glock said not to use PMC.

tsuehpsyde
January 1, 2008, 01:44 PM
It's astounding how many people are quick to blame a Glock for a kB when it's almost always the ammunition to blame (in this case, bad brass). Hot reloads, bad brass, or just plain bad ammunition are not a gun's fault.

Bad ammunition or bad reloading will cause any gun to malfunction or kB, not just Glocks.

And I'm sure some guns just plain malfunction from time to time, but all guns are prone to this. Find me a semi-automatic pistol that hasn't had a problem at some time or another in it's history, and I'll show you someone fudging the numbers. ;)

Bullet
January 1, 2008, 04:51 PM
jeepmor
As for you guys who think things won't fire out of battery, try this. Take your gun, safely empty, and use a matchstick or something to put a small gap between the breech and chamber, pull the trigger. Most will still strike. You can use feeler gages to find where that go no-go point is. I know my Taurus guns will fire with some gap between the barrel and breech not being 100% closed, I suspect others will too. If not, try it and chime back in.

Iím not exactly sure where you can put a feeler gage. My G17 doesnít have room for anything. If I pull the slide back enough to put a feeler gage in, it wonít fire.

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