Concealed carry and the anti-gun wife


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Curare
November 26, 2007, 06:00 PM
"You are mentally ill." "You think you are a cowboy." "You are paranoid." These are the comments I've received over the last week since obtaining my concealed handgun license and informing my wife that I will carry whenever and wherever lawfully allowed.

I will document my personal journey that will end in her acceptance of concealed carry or our divorce. I am committed to this cause and there will be no middle ground. This is activism on a very personal level.

Today is day 6.

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markmc753
November 26, 2007, 06:29 PM
Inform here that you are not crazy, but are in fact certain that zombies are breeding in your plumbing.

Seriously... I feel for ya bud.. hope it works out for you

igpoobah
November 26, 2007, 06:31 PM
Goog luck with that, I respect your dedication to the cause.

Have you taken her shooting?

joffe
November 26, 2007, 06:40 PM
I know I'd never able to live with a person that disagreed with me on the most fundamental issues - the right to life, liberty and property. Guns are the foundation of all of those - without the 'equalizer' they're just words on paper. I have to hand it to you for trying, and also for realising that the 'other option' is on the table.

Not that I have any first-hand experiences, but you could try printing out articles gleaned from forums like this (http://www.defensivecarry.com/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=58) and just lay them on the living room table in clear sight. Don't say a word, just pile them up. Also;

http://www.corneredcat.com/
http://web.mac.com/mj_lauer/iWeb/RangeDiary/Welcome.html

orionengnr
November 26, 2007, 06:42 PM
If you are an NRA member, their monthly magazine has a page called "The Armed Citizen". Always some good stories there about how people made a potentially bad situatiion better by having access to a firearm. I've been photocopying and filing them for about two years now.

If you aren't an NRA member, please consider changing that. :)

armoredman
November 26, 2007, 06:58 PM
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b13/armoredman/givemewhatIwant.jpg

n00bish
November 26, 2007, 06:58 PM
Did you two never talk about things like this prior to marriage? Just curious.

Robert Hairless
November 26, 2007, 06:59 PM
My I suggest a reasonable compromise with your wife?

Perhaps your wife would agree to respect your behavior if you promised not to lift a finger in her defense if she were attacked.

I'm sure she will understand that it would be unfair to expect you to do otherwise, and a violation of her principles too.

Ed Ames
November 26, 2007, 07:07 PM
Tell her you can't be a cowboy -- no hat. Unless you do have a cowboy hat of course. In that case she probably has a point. You may want to get some nice parchment paper and print up a "not insane" certificate for yourself (al la Homer Simpson's) too. Frame it and display it prominantly. Best to nip these little things in the bud before they get out of hand. :|

In all seriousness, you have three choices:
1) stop with the CCW thing until your wife is more comfortable. Unless you have a specific threat in mind (i.e. you are in the jewelry trade or have received death threats) this would be a reasonable course of action. Yeah, I know it's your right but the chances of you needing a gun while in public over the next few months (while you work the PR angles with the wife) are about 0.0000001%
2) Make a concerted effort to convince her that she is wrong even as you antagonize her by doing something she is scared of and is deriding. That's not easy but you may win her over. Bad news is that if she really is freaked out and you aren't completely smoth she may respond with overwhelming force, e.g. by calling the cops on you or using your gun toting as partial grounds for a divorce (which could lead to a loss of your 2A rights if she's scared enough to ask for a restraining order).
3) Get a divorce.

BridgeWalker
November 26, 2007, 07:11 PM
I will document my personal journey that will end in her acceptance of concealed carry or our divorce

First, define acceptance. Sounds like you already applied for the permit, bought the gun, and are carrying it. She is still living in your house. Sounds like she has already accepted it on one level.

So give her some credit for that.

Second, it's her house too, and she ought to have some input. If she doesn't want to have guns in her house, she should have the right to not have guns in her house. It sounds like she has already realized that she actually shares her house and has therefore given up some right to totally dictate terms. Seems you ought to do the same. What can you give? It seems like you already have what you want, except for the ability to do so without dealing with disparaging remarks.

You've just announced to the entire internet that you plan on being absolutely inflexible. I think you ought to rethink that position.
This should be about guns and acceptance of guns. By taking what you want and then demanding that she become ok with it or you leave (or throw her out?), you turn it into a power struggle.

I think she needs to spend time around guns. Not necessarily handguns, probably not tiny carry pieces, but just guns, and gun people. I think the absolute worst person to introduce her to guns at this point is you. Married couples often can't teach each other well in general, and when the thing being taught is a point of contention it is unlikely to end well.

She might be best off meeting with some women gun owners. Not even necessarily at a range or for shooting, but just to talk about guns and shootig and shooting sports and self-defense. Or maybe guns not but necessarily your point of interest, shotgunning, or rifle shooting.

If you're any where near me, I'd love to take her out and her a few things in a non-judgemental, non-pushy way.

macadore
November 26, 2007, 07:29 PM
I frequently e-mail my wife and daughters stories about heinous crimes committed against unarmed women. They know why I carry, and itís not for me.

m1009
November 26, 2007, 07:48 PM
I agree with another of the posters here, read her the articles from the Armed Citizen, take her shooting, try to work past her closed mind...I'm sure you have tried, maybe it'll just take a little more work. Tell her there are lots of people who carry, might even be people she knows and likes! Hell, I'm female and I carry whenever I can. I also try to practice whenever I can to keep my skills current. I like outshining the guys! :)

P.S. I know my hubby wouldn't put up with the mentally ill comments, that's just too over the top! :scrutiny:

TFin04
November 26, 2007, 07:56 PM
Find a local news report of a random, violent crime. Shouldn't be too hard these days.

Ask her if she would rather you have your gun with you, or not be armed if that happened to the two of you.

If she can't reason with that, I don't know what else to offer you.

m1009
November 26, 2007, 08:01 PM
Just told hubby about this post, and he had a beautiful response:
He said, "when people have a fire in their home, their first action is to get out of the house, call the fire department" They expect that the fire department will be there instantly. Then they're sitting outside, waiting, waiting, going, "where's the fire department?" It takes quite a bit of time most instances for the firemen to get there....all this time the person is sitting there thinking, wow, if I had just gotten the hose out, I could have save that wall, (or whatever). If you haven't had a fire, you don't realize how long it takes for help to arrive, and maybe if it started small you could have contained it long enough for reinforcements to show up.
Same thing with crime; people think that the police will show up instantly when you call. However, how many times have you heard on the news where the 911 operater dropped the ball and nobody was dispatched? Or they were so busy, nobody was free to come to your aid, or for whatever reason, they just couldn't get there fast enough? It's better to be prepared to defend yourself first, rather than depend on help to show up in time to save you. If you are trained in the use of your weapon, and are confident in its use, you are in a better situation to control the outcome of a situation where you might be in danger. The bad guys won't wait for you to make a phone call, they are in there to get what they want and get out. Just his thoughts on the matter.....

Moondancer
November 26, 2007, 08:48 PM
My wife wasn't anti-gun when we first started living together, but wasn't positive either. She was 42 and had had zero experience in her entire life with guns of any kind. Not even BB guns.

She knew I was into guns from the very beginning.

Once I'd moved to Indiana from Michigan and could get a CHL (as Michigan was "May Issue" at that time and the local gun boards were NOT in favor of civilians carrying guns) I did so.

She wasn't thrilled and made comments about my carrying and it being foolish as it wasn't necessary.

Until we had a couple of armed robberies in parking lots of stores we frequented. Then it was no longer foolish, and a couple times she's said "Do you have your gun with you tonite? I hope?"

I haven't convinced her to get her own CHL yet, but she is now accepting of mine. Hope yours works out.

Im283
November 26, 2007, 08:53 PM
"You are mentally ill." "You think you are a cowboy." "You are paranoid."

These are not things two married people normally call another. I think there are problems other than your conceal carry.

my wife is an anti. Not so much that she hates me owning guns or shooting them but she is not thrilled about me carrying. She has patiently listened as I give her my reasons. She has not to date ever tried to counter those reasons either. We had the talk back in the summer when I was going about getting the permit and her biggest reason to dislike guns is a couple of relatives killed themselves with guns. When I asked her if they did not have guns would they have jumped off a bridge, or overdosed or some other method and she replied that " probably they would have. "

A Saturday a few weeks ago we hung out with another couple I know who are both into guns. It helped a lot for her to see the other wife show off her two carry guns. My wife would not touch them but she did not get up screaming and run out of the house.

I doubt she will ever become a shooter but she has come a long ways in acceptance of my carrying a firearm.

Questions , How do you store your guns? Are there kids around?

copper4262
November 26, 2007, 09:15 PM
This is an interesting thread - Looks like this has been quite an issue in some homes - I was young when i got into shooting - It wasn't until after i had decided i wanted to own and carry guns that I started looking for a life partner - Weird as it sounds when i was dating i made it a point to find out a girls standpoint on guns. I actually ended a couple of serious relationships because we couldn't come to terms about me owning or carrying guns(not sure how those two managed to get into the "serious" catagory). One girl told me when we were married i could own a shotgun and that was all. Her reason was because her father had one locked away in the closet when she was a child and so that would be ok for me - didn't go real far.

When I met my wife i knew she and her family were into hunting. So that was a good sign. The first time i was showing her around my house she popped her head into my office and saw my swat equipment sitting out on the floor to be cleaned(i was single at the time obviously and didn't yet have any kids running around to get into it). She saw my subgun sitting there and her eyes got big as... well - big I didn't get her out of the house until i let her hold and play with the gun - Our first official date was to the gun range - I guess im just lucky - she doesn't complain about me carrying and kind of understands its part of me being a cop and part of me being a US citizen - So i'll say it again - guess im just lucky

My heart goes out to all who aren't as luck - wish i had some advice for ya but i dont - i never stuck around long enough with a girl who didn't let me carry guns around her

yesit'sloaded
November 26, 2007, 09:54 PM
There is always the "how many rape victims have been armed" angle. I"m about to take my girlfriend out to dinner so when I get back I'll have an answer from the female side of the shooting bench, which looks like this.
http://photos-513.ll.facebook.com/photos-ll-sctm/v129/1/91/26519513/n26519513_32490047_581.jpg

Shadow1198
November 26, 2007, 10:20 PM
I've never understood how some people can have the perspective that being able to defend yourself is somehow a bad thing. A concealed carry permit is not a license that instantly turns every holder into a person that looks to use their gun to solve every issue. Most CC permit holders I know have the utmost respect for human life and view their CCW as a last resort in a life or death situation. Most of them hope to God they never have to use it, but they like living even more and will do whatever it takes to survive. The police do the best they can but, they can't be everywhere all the time.

You might want to show her this link and then see if she feels the same way: http://www.gunowners.org/sk0802.htm

sdj
November 26, 2007, 10:43 PM
Having made the journey (not in the grand sense...) in just a couple of years from never having fired a handgun in my life to being very enthusiastic about pistol shooting, I would encourage you to go shooting. When I first started shooting, I was surprised by the complexity of it. I was surprised that so many small movements when added up, became what amounted to the correct way to shoot, which itself lead to bullseye's. I was surprised that the sport was more mental than a sport such as golf. It is rare that books, arguments, films or other such media will change human behavior. I would offer that if you were to have a direct and positive experience of the sport (together), the difference that you are now experiencing will work itself out.

Good luck.

doc2rn
November 26, 2007, 11:15 PM
I dont carry for me, I dont carry to assault or be agressive, I dont carry beacuse I can. It all breaks down into an article about Little Lizzie by Jon Connor from Handgunner. Here is the article http://www.americanhandgunner.com/GunCrank2.html
I am a vet and weapon systems come naturally to me, however this sums it up better than I ever could on why I carry. I am a single dad and I have a CCW, now.

jeepmor
November 26, 2007, 11:46 PM
Delving into the police reports in your locale usually does it. Thankfully, my wife watches the news. Of late, we've had a couple incidents rather close to home that have removed the "it won't happen to me in my neighborhood" attitude. She recently acquired her CHL and I'm quite thankful for it.

I have a flaming liberal friend who keeps professing this angle to me in opposition to my decision to carry. I then recount the 4 or 5 stories of the friends and relatives that have been involved, or by the grace of God, happened to narrowly miss out on armed altercations involving murder and robbery. He still goes, see, it hasn't happened to you. I reply, and because of their narrow misses and my best HS bud getting shot in the stomach by a disgruntled employee, I now carry. If you don't like that fine, as you were. You live your life, I'll live mine. I don't judge yours, quit judging mine, I'm not breaking the law, so let it go man. Don't project your insecurities about guns on me. Guns are tools, nothing more. It's how the tool gets employed, and by whom, that requires judgement, not the tool itself.

CAPTAIN MIKE
November 26, 2007, 11:51 PM
I came home from work about a year ago with my sport coat over my arm and my Kimber 1911 in its holster on my strong side hip. I was wearing my tie and dress pants, having just left the office for the ride home. As I walked up the stairs to my bedroom I passed my little boy (age 8 at the time) as he played quietly on the floor with his friend, another boy from the neighborhood.

I said Hi to the boys - both of whom are in my Cub Scout Pack. My son's friend looked up, smiled and then turned to my son saying "Your Dad has a gun!". My little boy didn't even turn to look. He simply replied, "Yeah. He keeps us safe." The two little guys just went on playing with their cards and never gave it a second thought.

Kinda Cool. Your wife might respond to a non-emotional discussion sometime while you're out for a walk after dinner. Talk about how much she means to you and that you want to do everything you can to protect her. Tell her that with crime being what it is today with a rape every so many seconds and a home invasion by gang members every so many seconds, you'd feel terrible if you didn't have the means to save her life.

Good Luck to you!!

Robert Hairless
November 27, 2007, 12:27 AM
IM283:

These are not things two married people normally call another. I think there are problems other than your conceal carry.

Sensitive and perceptive.

cobrian45
November 27, 2007, 12:45 AM
It's tough when they have strong opinions. My wife had never seen a "for real gun" in her life. She is from a gun hostile country. Look at her now. I had to convince her that she would regret not shooting a full-auto MP5 when she had the chance. She loved it. You'll get there, just don't push too hard and start with .22, women love how easy and fun they are.

I couldn't get the pic to attach. I'll have to try another time. Sorry.

goon
November 27, 2007, 12:47 AM
My GF isn't anti exactly but she isn't comfortable with my carrying either. I can't really blame her. Guns have been part of my life for over 20 years. She just fired her first shots a few months ago.
Her last comment about my carrying was to the effect that it was "innappropriate". I pointed out that the things that criminals do to people are also "innappropriate" and that using similar tactics might be the only way to stop them.
She is also convinced that carrying for personal defense can only possibly lead to jail time. I often point out to her that the overwhelming majority of defensive gun uses don't involve a single shot being fired. They still save lives every day. If they didn't police officers wouldn't carry them.
The thing about her is that she is really smart and entirely capable of figuring this stuff out for herself. She as indicated that she is mostly interested in learning about handguns (presumably because she realizes that they are the most portable and effective life insurance available). My situation isn't bad - all I really have to do is present her with information and give her time to work it over. She'll come around.
I'm not married but it would seem to me that the worst thing you could do is lay an ultimatum at your wife's feet. My understanding of women is pretty limited but I have never heard of that type of approach solving anything.

Green Lantern
November 27, 2007, 12:54 AM
Some good advice, there's unfortunately plenty of "hard data" available for you to use as rationale for going about armed.

Also agree that:
These are not things two married people normally call another. I think there are problems other than your conceal carry.

Unless she was calling you 'mentally ill' or the others in a joking/teasing manner....

Either way, "May the Force be with you!"

dasmi
November 27, 2007, 12:55 AM
My ladyfriend has only been shooting once, and she was intimidated by the guns. My fault. Perhaps a snubby and a 1911 weren't the best first time shooter guns. I pick up a Ruger Mk.III tomorrow, that's a better place to start.
She loves it when I carry. She's got no problem with guns, or me owning them, she just isn't ready herself yet.

yesit'sloaded
November 27, 2007, 02:05 AM
Sorry my girlfriend said it's common sense and any woman should know that the best defense against a criminal is one that goes bang. She also brought up the "what if a crazy person starts shooting in a public place" scenario. She also mentioned that if you are carrying a Glock...never mind. Something about how you can tell a man designed it because it's ugly and has no curves.

Hook686
November 27, 2007, 06:56 AM
A man has to know his limitations.

Curare
November 27, 2007, 10:52 AM
Day 7

Good advice from all. I am a 31 year old physician, a Christian, a loving father and husband. I have been married for 6 years. We have a 2 year old child. Firearms have been a part of my family for generations, since the Revolution, and my wife was well aware of that when she met me. She's shot a gun a few times with me from a Ruger MkII to a Enfiled No. 4.

Concealed carry has been allowed in Ohio for a few years. I recently obtained my permit when our law was improved, by SHB 347, removing the ridiculous "in plain sight" restriction while in a motor vehicle.

My wife is her own woman. She is a CEO, a Liberal, has been valedictorian at every school she has attended, has several degrees, a hyphenated last name, and she is a vegetarian. Usually I enjoy our differing views on topics, but rarely do those topics deal with life or death. She becomes extremely emotional about some issues, hence her language. This compares similarly with how she reacted when I talked about getting a motorcycle. She replied that I would "have to find someone else to change my diaper if [I] became a paraplegic." She told me that she would leave me if I ever took up deer hunting, though has no issues with me taking groundhogs on her parent's farm. She's complex, tough as nails, and I love her.

If I waver with concealed carry, and compromise, I will end up with no concealed carry. She will eat me for lunch.

Last night, we traded statisitics, and she keep pinging away with the fact she is "7 times more likely to die" because there are guns in the home--guns and ammunition that have been there all along, a situation unchanged by my CHL. That's the best she can do. She believes that any statistics I present are heavily biased. I need something as unbiased as possible to present to her.

The interesting thing is that she is a victim of attempted sexual assault. She explains that she got out of that using her hands, and didn't need a gun.

Right now the mood in the house is improving.

RoadkingLarry
November 27, 2007, 11:41 AM
Good luck but I almost expect the out come to be a DV complaint and a loss of 2A rights on your part. Not intended as a flame or anything but from your description and my point of view, she is the one who is mentally ill.

btg3
November 27, 2007, 11:44 AM
A few incidents of "close-to-home" violence got my whole family more interested in firearms. Given your wife's experience, I would like to ask what is the basis for her anti-gun stance:
--unwilling to fatally injure another person?
--peer pressure from her liberal crowd?
--just an instinctive fear of guns?
Progress will be easier, if you fully understand her objections.

In your intial post, you rather strongly stated your committment to guns over your previous committment to your Christian marriage. Proceed with wisdom and love. Best wishes.

jlbraun
November 27, 2007, 12:00 PM
She's complex, tough as nails, and I love her.

That doesn't matter. The question is, does she love YOU? Given the insults and "I'll leave you" over deer hunting, it sounds like her love is conditional.

This is not about guns, this is about POWER. And you don't have it, because you failed to bring firearms and CCW up before you said your wedding vows.

Love is not conditional. Love means accepting the other person no matter what, and no matter which direction they grow.

I had a girlfriend like your wife, complex, driven, and tough as nails. Unfortunately women in that mold also tend to be conditional and manipulative about love - "If you do this, I'll leave. If you do that, I'll insult you."

Her objections to CCW are not rational, they are emotional. As such, you can never persuade her, she must persuade herself.

Therefore, all of the statistics and logic in the world will not sway her. Only emotion will.

Your course, should you choose to accept it, is to simply carry a gun, tell her you are doing so, be a good and levelheaded person, and leave it at that. Print out www.gunfacts.info and leave it in the bathroom. Be prepared for months of no sex. She will berate, insult, and shun you. Shrug this off. Eventually, she will come around, because you have given her an emotional reason to accept CCW - that you are a rational, caring, human being who loves her.

Sounds like you got a problem there mate. Best of luck to you.

strat81
November 27, 2007, 01:44 PM
I need something as unbiased as possible to present to her.
It's not statistics, and its a gun issue more than a CCW issue, but this story may help:
http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/07/23/home.invasion.ap/index.html
"At least two men broke into a prominent doctor's home early Monday, kidnapped a female family member to withdraw money from a bank and then killed his wife and their two daughters, police said."

There's also the Luby's Massacre:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luby's_massacre
"Luby's massacre was a mass killing that took place on October 16, 1991, in Killeen, Texas, United States when George Jo Hennard drove his pickup truck into a Luby's Cafeteria and shot and killed 23 people, wounded another 20 and then committed suicide by shooting himself. It remained the deadliest shooting rampage in American history until the Virginia Tech Massacre."

BridgeWalker
November 27, 2007, 02:16 PM
Unfortunately women in that mold also tend to be conditional and manipulative about love - "If you do this, I'll leave. If you do that, I'll insult you."

Funny. Seems to me this thread started out with the OP announcing he was gonna leave her if she didn't acquiesce to his CCW.

Looks like a two way road here.

Curare
November 27, 2007, 02:39 PM
Funny. Seems to me this thread started out with the OP announcing he was gonna leave her if she didn't acquiesce to his CCW.

Actually, she would be the one leaving me--I'm not going anywhere. She told me that she didn't know if she could be around someone who carries a gun, and that she was going to have to think about this (as it pertains to the future of our marriage). I have not threatened to leave her.

Also, jlbraun, concealed carry did not exist in Ohio when we exchanged vows.

ZeSpectre
November 27, 2007, 02:49 PM
Recent conversation with my (mostly gun neutral) wife (after getting home from a night out) when she hugged me and bumped the SIG which I hadn't yet removed for the night.

Her - I wish you didn't have to carry that thing.
Me - Me too...pointing at the TV which was talking about Sean Taylor.

She gave me an odd look and not a single word more was said.

On a (hopefully) more productive note...
The abrupt presence of firearms in a house can be a HUGE shock to some people, especially as it represents danger. No, not the danger of the firearm itself (though that's what they'll say) but the danger of popping the illusion of safety that many of us wrap around ourselves.

It takes some time and gentle action to coax people into the "hey did you know that we can ALSO take care of ourselves" mentality.

Go slow, go gentle, but give respect and do not accept disrespect in return.

jlbraun
November 27, 2007, 02:50 PM
Also, jlbraun, concealed carry did not exist in Ohio when we exchanged vows.

My apologies. In any case, that doesn't matter. You can't settle all power issues that could come up before you get married, because you can't predict all of them in advance.

The best you can do is find someone who will accept you no matter what.

Here is my story.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=200593

Ed Ames
November 27, 2007, 03:20 PM
So what's the meat of her argument? I can see it cutting two ways.

1) The world would be safe if not for cowboys. You becoming a cowboy makes the problem worse. She wants to discourage you from making the world a worse place so she will pressure you not to be a cowboy.

2) The world is safe. If you think it isn't safe your grip on reality has slipped. She doesn't want to be around people with reality perception problems for any of a number of reasons.

If she's arguing position 1 you can concentrate on a couple of themes. First, use the stats about CCW crime rates.. if the average person has a crime index of 1, a CCW holder has an index of 0.01. So the cowboys aren't the problem. That doesn't mean they are good to have around but they aren't the problem. You can move from there to explaining the real problem: the drug war.

If she's arguing position 2 you've got a bigger challenge. You are male. Males aren't normally an attractive target in their own right. If robbed you can give some money and 99.999% of the time you'll get off with nothing more than a sense of outrage. On the other hand you are in an increasingly dangerous line of work. The drug war has made you and those around you a real target of organized criminals. You need to have a realistic talk with her about the difference between general risks (which are much higher for her than for you... there are plenty of real crazies that would rape and kill her given nothing but the opportunity) and specific risks (which may be quite high for both of you, given your professions).

There is no single resounding "ta-da!" argument you can roll out and convince everyone. You aren't going to argue it anyway. The best you can do is educate and persuade. The worst acceptable outcome is "I don't like it but I trust you" which just buys you time.

In any case you'll need to understand where she's coming from to address the issue.

romma
November 27, 2007, 03:41 PM
You got some Stones my gun-totin friend! And I mean that in a good way... If your principles are such that you are willing to potentially sacrifice your marriage, then that is your choice.

IMO, nobody should tell anybody they shouldn't be able to protect themselves by the best means available.

Hopefully you will be able to work it out to where that is not necessary...

Green Lantern
November 27, 2007, 04:10 PM
You're a doctor, eh? That should help strengthen your position somewhat - sadly, but quite true.

Apart from the aforementioned drug abuse epidemic, stories like the "too close for my comfort" murder of Doctor Brian Ling are probably all to easy to find: http://www.blueridgenow.com/article/20070918/NEWS/70918003/1151/NEWS/Beavers_found_guilty_of_first_degree_murder

In a nutshell, grieving father takes out his son's death on ONE doctor that treated him - and IIRC, Dr. Ling wasn't even the primary doctor.

After that....well, I won't lie, there have been times where I've gone to the doctor unarmed. But there's sure no excuse NOT to.

People can be impulsive and irrational at the best of times, let alone when they're ill...

The Amigo
November 27, 2007, 04:37 PM
This is how I convinced my wife im not crazy or paranoid after a while she understood. http://www.claytoncramer.com/gundefenseblog/blogger.html

btg3
November 27, 2007, 05:53 PM
Also, jlbraun, concealed carry did not exist in Ohio when we exchanged vows.
Yeah, I think most weddings include this in the vows now. -- LOL.

Is this is also why a lot of old men go after young women - -these girls were not born when they exchanged vows? Gimme a break - - do you really think that the vows made to your wife before God are conditional? Better work another angle with CC in mind.

BridgeWalker
November 27, 2007, 05:57 PM
Actually, she would be the one leaving me--I'm not going anywhere.

Ah, I totally misunderstood your op. In that case, I officially join the "she's being a bit nutty" camp. :)

the pistolero
November 27, 2007, 06:48 PM
I know I'd never able to live with a person that disagreed with me on the most fundamental issues - the right to life, liberty and property. Guns are the foundation of all of those - without the 'equalizer' they're just words on paper. I have to hand it to you for trying, and also for realising that the 'other option' is on the table.
Spot-on. I bring up guns and self-defense to potential mates as early as I can precisely so I will be avoid this sort of thing, or at least lessen the possibility of it happening.

RoadkingLarry
November 27, 2007, 06:51 PM
Just remind her that far more people are killed by medical mistakes than with firearms...;)

goon
November 27, 2007, 07:38 PM
btg3 - the OP isn't the one who made it conditional. His wife is.

btg3
November 27, 2007, 07:56 PM
goon - I think each of them laid down some conditions. I was referring to this one. Peace.
... her acceptance of concealed carry or our divorce.

Librarian
November 28, 2007, 12:11 AM
Last night, we traded statisitics, and she keep pinging away with the fact she is "7 times more likely to die" because there are guns in the home--guns and ammunition that have been there all along, a situation unchanged by my CHL. That's the best she can do. She believes that any statistics I present are heavily biased. I need something as unbiased as possible to present to her.Oh, dear; (variant) Kellermann again. Try this link (http://www.guncite.com/gun_control_gcdgaga.html).

But statistics do not trump emotions, as already noted.

BridgeWalker
November 28, 2007, 12:45 AM
goon - I think each of them laid down some conditions. I was referring to this one. Peace.

I read that the same way you did--the op clarified a couple of posts up.

Airman193SOS
November 28, 2007, 01:03 AM
My wife was, and to some degree still is, not too keen on my gun ownership. At first she was so reticent that she wouldn't even discuss it. Then I got my other two, which she consented to after I persuaded her to allow it. Then, one day, when she was angry at me about some petty something or other, I told her that if she went to the range she would blow off some steam and feel better while causing no damage to anything, including our relationship.

So we go to the range, and she's scared. Not just scared, petrified. To the point of paralysis petrified. The only other time that the had ever handled a weapon of any kind was in the Navy. Her family positively hates guns of any sort. So I told her to stand behind me while I loaded my SP101 with 158-grain .357 Magnums. I shoot one handed, and I demonstrated no particular difficulty in doing so, so she thought that she could do it if I could do it one handed if I loaded it with .38 Special.

I loaded the weapon up, taught her the proper grip, stance, and aiming techniques, and lo and behold, she started punching holes in paper. What came next, though, is something I never expected: with a particularly sheepish look on her face, she said "That was fun. Can I do it again?" Jackpot!

Now she's fine with it, as long as I am exceptionally careful (we have a 5-year-old boy) and I keep the two that I am not currently carrying locked up in my safe. That is the extent of her reluctance, concern for our little boy. Sometimes she objects to my politics, but at least she understands where my ideas come from better now. Sometimes she even asks when we can go out to the range again, and believe you me, I am sure to accommodate.

One down, millions to go, but it's a start.

v35
November 28, 2007, 02:00 AM
As a physician and CEO it sounds as though you are, if not wealthy, at least pretty well off. The best part about being well off is that it tends to isolate you from the seedier parts of society. It also enables you to delegate many menial tasks to someone else - toilet clogged, call a plumber. Car runs rough, call a mechanic. Or just buy another. You can have groceries delivered or meals cooked for you. You never have to get your "hands dirty". All this is great but it tends to color one's perception about self-reliance, which is the reason many self-reliant people elect to carry.

For your wife guns are repugnant. They have no place in her clean and predictable world of breakfast meetings with bottled water served by eager assistants. After the evening workout at the health club, she's accustomed to driving her late model Lexus into your three car garage then relieving your baby's nanny. The thought of stopping off at the range for a half hour to hone her skills just doesn't compute. That's cowboy stuff.

It can be very difficult to understand that there is another world beyond yours. It's much more common, but you never see it or have to think about it. That's the world from which violent predators emerge. They would not understand your world any more than you could understand theirs. When their world intersects with yours, you may need to get your "hands dirty". Quick.

Oh and
... pinging away with the fact she is "7 times more likely to die" because there are guns in the home
Sorry to break it to you but she is 100% likely to die, guns or not. So are you by the way. Until that day comes I'd advocate being a little proactive in choosing the time and place.

shouldifail
November 28, 2007, 02:56 AM
Ok, I decided to go ahead and play the devils advocate here....
from the sounds of it, you and your wife are very headstrong. Maybe even both have the "my way or the highway" attitude. I don't know you personally, so I can only speculate.

As you were going through the process of obtaining your ccw, buying a pistol, and deciding to carry whenever you wanted, did you ever mention it to your wife?? Did you include her in the process enough as to let her voice her opinion on the matter? If you came home and sprung this on her without her knowledge of this at all, I can see why she might be pissed.

If you coming home with a pistol on your hip was the first that she'd seen or heard of it, then she probably is quite upset that you carry a gun...and I'd be willing to bet it probably has nothing to do with the gun.
She may be upset that you didn't ask her what she thought about you obtaining the means to defend your family against the possibility of a threat.
She may feel that you think she is incompetent, thus needs you to be her protector (not out of love but out of necessity). She may be upset that you didn't give her the chance to object to your decision BEFORE you went through with it.
Is it possible that if you talked to your wife (or possibly write her a letter) explaining your position as to why you wanted your ccw, and also acknowledging her right to her own feelings about the matter, that you could reach some common ground?? Maybe she says ok to carrying so long as it goes in a quick access safe once at home??
My thought is that the issue is more with her feeling like she was left out of the equasion, than with you wanting to carry concealed.

Again, this is all speculation...


All I know is that if I decide that I'm going to do something, my wife is the first person I talk about it with. Now my wife and I don't necessarily see eye to eye on everything, but by maintaining an open line of communication and dialogue we avoid almost all conflict.

just my $.02

Crow1108
November 28, 2007, 07:54 AM
I'm in the same boat as some of ya'll, but with a fairly unique twist: my wife is Japanese. She never, ever grew up around guns. I really wish there was a way I could get her into shooting, because it's something I enjoy and it would be awesome if her and I could enjoy it together, but it's proving impossible so far. She freaked when she first moved here with me (she was in Japan while I was here waiting for her visa to go through) and found my Sig in my nightstand and my AR under my bed. Slowly she's beginning to come to terms that I won't give up my guns, and that there are guns in our apartment. I've told her several times (especially when I got my CWP) that the only reason I had them was to protect her.

ExSoldier
November 28, 2007, 09:20 AM
This is exactly the reason why when I first met the gal I later married (20 years next August) our first date was to Church. the second date was to the RANGE.

She knew up front how important firearms and 2nd Amendment activism is to me! For our first anniversary she got me a rifle. For the 2nd a Dillon Reloader.

I have known too many friends whose marriages crumbled over this silly little thing. Worse none of these poor guys ever saw it coming. In more than a few cases some of these folks were wrong on other stuff too. Just because somebody says their a Christian doesn't automatically imply conservative in politics and pro-gun.

Deanimator
November 28, 2007, 11:37 AM
1) stop with the CCW thing until your wife is more comfortable. Unless you have a specific threat in mind (i.e. you are in the jewelry trade or have received death threats) this would be a reasonable course of action. Yeah, I know it's your right but the chances of you needing a gun while in public over the next few months (while you work the PR angles with the wife) are about 0.0000001%

And if he IS attacked and murdered while disarmed and helpless, he won't have to listen to any of her nonsense anymore...

Deanimator
November 28, 2007, 11:45 AM
You are male. Males aren't normally an attractive target in their own right.
Seems like that Taylor guy from the Redskins was attractive ENOUGH the other night...

yesit'sloaded
November 28, 2007, 12:04 PM
" a conservative is a liberal who has been mugged"

RubenZ
November 28, 2007, 12:24 PM
The only way my Wife will leave me is If I were to cheat on her.

She HATES Hunting!! When I go hunting and or kill something she'll be mad for a few minutes and yadda yadda and say "How can you just kill it". Then it passes we eat dinner, go out, talk and kiss and are happy and thats that.

A wife should never tell you she'll leave you if you do this or don't do that. Thats not love thats control and power.

Deanimator
November 28, 2007, 12:30 PM
"How can you just kill it".
As I said to my female cousin in Apartheid Chicago before my recent hunting trip,

"It's easier to eat if you do."

Ed Ames
November 28, 2007, 02:03 PM
Seems like that Taylor guy from the Redskins was
attractive ENOUGH the other night...

That's why I was talking about general threats vs. specific threats. The world presents us with both.

General threats are the crimes of opportunity, the wrong place/wrong time events, the things that could happen to anyone. Being mugged, a natural disaster, rape (usually for females), etc.

Specific threats are threats that target you as an individual. They may target you because you are a famous person, or because you have access to valuables, or because you pissed off a crazy person. They may get your name from a registry (e.g. of CCW holders), from the news (a "local business spotlight" type news bit showing an attractive CEO with new and profitable products), from professional contact (e.g. criminal lawyers who can be targeted by criminals they prosecute or defend; doctors can be in this group too), social contact (the athelete who is still buddies with his gang-member childhood buddies) or just about anything else.

In this case the OP and his wife probably have relatively low general threat levels. They face different general threats. There's a laundry list of opportunity crimes that target more women than men, but she is in a generally safer environment (CEOs typically deal with only a few people, most of them rather heavily -- compared to most people you deal with -- screened employees). He deals more with the unscrened (or reverse screened -- criminals are more likely than the general population to end up sick and injured) public in more emotionally charged circumstances. As far as specific threat levels, he's got some concerns. His name is in registries as part of the legal drug establishment. He lives in a country where prohibition has created an extremely profitable black market for drugs. That's a bad combination. He may also be making himself a target in other ways. His wife likewise has specific threats to worry about. Recently fired employees, people harmed by defective products or services, people who think she has access to wealth, the list could be arbitrarily long.

This is a slight tangent but comes around to specific threats and CEOs. One of the few times I've considered carrying a gun at the office appropriate was just after I had to let an employee go. Good worker gone bad over the last year. He was also skilled in martial arts but that didn't concern me... he had always been a good guy even when his work started suffering. Then it came time for him to leave and he wanted to take a bunch of company files off "his" computer and delete them. I said no, the computers are company property and we had to inspect them. Call me tomorrow and we'll talk about baby pictures or whatever. Within an hour he was calling my other employees with lines like, "did you tell on me? If I find out you did...." and by the next day he was coming around screaming about how he wanted "his" files. Turns out he had been working on side projects in the office and didn't have any backups. He was screaming that we were stealing from him, the files were his, and so on. Problem was that the files he wanted were source code for a product that would compete with ours. We were suddenly faced with an angry ex-employee, potentially dangerous even if not armed, in our lobby. So, what do you do? Call the cops on the guy? If we started down that road it would have turned irreversibly ugly. No, we talked to him, worked out a compromize. He started claiming that the files were a school project (I say BS) and we had him sign an agreement that they were owned by us and licensed to him for educational use only. He walked away thinking he could cheat and sell the code anyway. We walked away knowing that if he did manage to sell a competing product we could win in court. Nobody gained a criminal record. If I hadn't had a gun at the office I couldn't have afforded to be tolerant. I would've had to call the cops as soon as he showed up. But, more to the point, if he had been just a little bit further out of control a call to the cops wouldn't have done much good. That's the sort of position a CEO can find themselves in with no warning at all.

Curare
November 28, 2007, 02:09 PM
Day 8

Scene: Bathroom in the morning. I'm in the shower, she's doing her thing.

I don't have time for a full transcript, but here are some of my quotes:

"Did you know that you are two times more likely to be attacked by an alligator than a concealed carry holder in Florida?"

"Did you know that a concealed carry holder is sixteen times less likely to committ a crime than someone who doesn't have a permit?"

"Oh, you're using Kellerman again?" Chuckles. "Were you aware that the study was seriously flawed and that 87% of the deaths were from SUICIDE?" Silence ensues.

"Did you know that you are less likely--not more likely to be killed--if a victim uses a deadly weapon to defend themselves?"

"No, all this information isn't from gun websites--it's from public records--you are welcome to research it yourself."

"You're right--you don't have enough time to research it--because it would take forever to find the answer you are looking for."

At that point she left the bathroom.

I feel that I now have complete control of the academic aspect of the debate. I also told her that I am documenting the dates when she verbally abuses me--calling me "mentally ill," for going about armed. I don't think that I'm going to hear her use that or anything from Kellerman again.

------------------

Also, in reference to an above post, we live a very ordinary life financially. We change our own oil, brakes, etc., do our own yard work, produce much of our food from our large garden, and canning. We bury leftovers in the garden. We don't have a maid. We don't belong to a country club. We don't drink wine. We don't like fancy clothes or jewlery. Our vehicles are under 20 and 30K respectively. We live in a normal home. We just save--a lot.

Johnnybgood
November 28, 2007, 02:46 PM
http://www.gunfacts.info It will refute all the anti claims WITH REFERENCES. Facts not emotions.

DrewH
November 28, 2007, 02:59 PM
I feel that I now have complete control of the academic aspect of the debate. I also told her that I am documenting the dates when she verbally abuses me--calling me "mentally ill," for going about armed. I don't think that I'm going to hear her use that or anything from Kellerman again.

Honestly, this doesn't sound like a very happy marriage to me. Maybe you and she would be better off getting separated and finding more compatible partners? When she called you "mentally ill" was she serious? If so, not a good thing either. If not, "documenting it" sounds pretty severe.

tinygnat219
November 28, 2007, 03:06 PM
My wife thinks I am a little "rabid" on the subject, but accepts it just the same. When she does ask "why?" I simply point out the police blotter showing the latest sexual assault or rape victim that tends to come in spurts in our area.

In fact, just recently near our neighborhood there has been a rapist who wears a ski mask, comes up behind women walking by themselves then drags them into nearby bushes or other cover where he commits his nefarious deed. He tends to strike early in the morning, but that doesn't mean he won't strike at night. The less than a block from home bit got her interest up.
Looks like we will be attending a firearm safety class together (she wants me there for support).

Im283
November 28, 2007, 03:43 PM
Actually, she would be the one leaving me--I'm not going anywhere. She told me that she didn't know if she could be around someone who carries a gun, and that she was going to have to think about this (as it pertains to the future of our marriage). I have not threatened to leave her.

this thread reminds me of a song Hank III sings that is about a wife threatening her husband to quit drinking or she is going to leave. In the song he decides to ratchet up the drinking to see "if she would really choose". The song goes on about how he is happy she finally left as he "was about to drink myself to death". The fact of that matter is he was happy she left and he kept on doing what she threatened him about even though he was not all that excited about drinking anymore.

Now back to the topic at hand...

I hope you stay "excited" about carrying and doing what you know in your heart is the right thing. Keep on protecting yourself and your family even if they do not see the good it does.

BobCat
November 28, 2007, 04:19 PM
I know a guy whose wife threatened to leave him if he did not stop drinking. He stopped drinking. She left him anyway.

Is this really about your carrying a sidearm?

dasmi
November 28, 2007, 04:29 PM
Is this really about your carrying a sidearm?
I'm not married, so I haven't chimed in with advice, but that's the first question that went through my head too. It stinks of serious control issues. It's got nothing to do with your gun.

george_co
November 28, 2007, 04:29 PM
Your wife and my wife sound an awful lot alike.

The one argument/statement that I made to her that she didn't have an answer to was: I hope that from your perspective I keep losing the argument, because the day I win the argument is the day something bad has happened to my family. I will keep carrying and keep losing the argument.

She isn't happy about it, but then she really doesn't say that much about it either now. To some degree the convict that escaped from DOC guards at the hospital emergency room and then ran through our back alley easement, which caused all the dogs to start barking at 11:30pm, which caused her to go out on the deck in her nightgown to see what the dogs were barking at kind of got her to thinking as well.

Phelptwan
November 28, 2007, 05:43 PM
If you have already seriously considered a divorce over it, it's already to late. Your marriage is over bud.

mpthole
November 28, 2007, 06:21 PM
From a quote on page 1:
Talk about how much she means to you and that you want to do everything you can to protect her. Tell her that with crime being what it is today with a rape every so many seconds and a home invasion by gang members every so many seconds, you'd feel terrible if you didn't have the means to save her life.
That's basically what I had to do... even though she knew 3 people that were killed through random acts of violence in the space of about 3 years. Scary stuff.

I'd caution over making ultimatums... although it sounds like both of you already have. They usually backfire and end up causing hurt feelings/bitterness with both parties.

Oh, and the bit about feeling like you have "complete control" over any aspect of your marriage...?! ***? I think you've (both of you) got some growing up to do in the relationship department.

The only way to get through this is to talk, talk and more talk. Don't give up on your principles, you should definitely still carry, but you two have got to talk this thing (and other issues within your marriage I suspect) through.

stevereno1
November 28, 2007, 06:41 PM
Ask her how "inappropriate" it is to be beaten to the ground, bound, and raped, while her husband bleeds to death from a gunshot wound. I know that the statement is disturbing, but so is being victomized by a crackhead.

Mazeman
November 28, 2007, 07:03 PM
Does your wife allow and understand the utility of having guns in the house for home protection?

If so, just explain to her that concealed carry simply extends that safety net further, beyond the house. It follows logically. If she doesn't even like guns at home, you have a bigger problem.

When we first met, my wife hated guns. Now, she has her own, has taken courses, and doesn't mind me carrying. You know what changed her mind? FEAR. There was an unexplained double murder/robbery near where we lived, and the perps were still at large. *She* was the one that asked me to have my .357 accessible in a drawer, even when I wasn't home.

That was the beginning of her turn around...

ETA: My wife also has a CHL now, but she doesn't use it.
Everyone mentions showing your wife The Armed Citizen. Hell, show her People magazine. The woman and daughters who were killed in the CT break-in? Wouldn't it have been nice if dad was carrying. I know it was in their home, but that story hits home emotionally, and shows that violent crime can happen to anyone, anywhere.

Also, if it helps, you can tell your wife my story and inform her that I'm a physician. There must be a lot of crazy docs running around. We have several at our hospital that love guns.

Jerry Morris
November 28, 2007, 07:04 PM
I really can't offer advice on this particular incident.

One thing literally screamed into my mind. If my wife called me mentally deranged, a number of things would be triggered.

First I would ask, are you joking and if so, never do that again. It is inappropriate and insulting, If she was serious, it would cause me deep self introspection. Possibly with counseling. If I determined that I was not deranged, I would end the relationship, posthaste.

I have been married twice. The first was a sick relationship. I assume all guilt. I put up with it. And there was no shotgun involved in the wedding. Can't put it any plainer. I was wrong from day one. The second time still endures. This is Mrs. Right. We make a good team. We listen to each other and respect the opinions. It has been a good 17 years long.

Marriage is a partnership, one that requires Love and Respect. Power Games are not good here. Threats and intimidation are destructive.

I feel for you, guy. Been there, done that.

Jerry

Mazeman
November 28, 2007, 08:01 PM
You can also let her read the old sheep/wolf/sheepdog analogy. Described here (http://www.townhall.com/columnists/column.aspx?UrlTitle=three_kinds_of_people&ns=MikeSAdams&dt=06/11/2007&page=full&comments=true) by Prof. Mike Adams.

Sounds like even though she tries to be a tough CEO, she's a sheep at heart.

FLORIDA KEVIN
November 28, 2007, 08:07 PM
I believe that your approach will further alienate your wife from your position on guns and concealed carry ! You should try presenting her with information that is factual and if possible unbiased !( I know thats not easy ) ! But if you treat her as a reasonable and competent adult and present facts to reduce her fears ,and ACT like a reasonable rational adult !She will come around, and become your ally instead of adversary ! good luck : Kevin

Mazeman
November 28, 2007, 08:21 PM
One more thought about this, and I speak from experience.

You say you're a 31 yo MD. Which means you probably recently finished training, or are about to. Which means you may *finally* be getting some more free time, the likes of which you may not have experienced since high school. Free time to read about current events, develop interests, develop stronger opinions...

Most of my strong beliefs and enjoyable hobbies really took shape after training, because I finally had the time to learn and enjoy things outside of medicine. Your wife may have married the "concept" of a doctor, but outside of medicine many training docs are still diamonds in the rough as far as being human beings. This may be a challenging time. A time when you will blossom a lot more rapidly as a complete INDIVIDUAL, as opposed to an adornment for your wife. Both of you need to understand this.

orionengnr
November 28, 2007, 08:59 PM
1) stop with the CCW thing until your wife is more comfortable. Unless you have a specific threat in mind (i.e. you are in the jewelry trade or have received death threats) this would be a reasonable course of action. Yeah, I know it's your right but the chances of you needing a gun while in public over the next few months (while you work the PR angles with the wife) are about 0.0000001%

Utterly ludicrous position. First, check your math. That is one in ten trillion. If that were a true statement, no-one in the history of the universe ever needed, or ever will need, a gun.

If you buy the "guns used 2.5 million times per year to prevent crime, most often without firing a shot", then the true average is more like one in ten. By my reckoning, anyone who doesn't carry is mentally ill.


As a physician and CEO it sounds as though you are, if not wealthy, at least pretty well off. The best part about being well off is that it tends to isolate you from the seedier parts of society. It also enables you to delegate many menial tasks to someone else - toilet clogged, call a plumber. Car runs rough, call a mechanic. Or just buy another. You can have groceries delivered or meals cooked for you. You never have to get your "hands dirty". All this is great but it tends to color one's perception about self-reliance, which is the reason many self-reliant people elect to carry.

For your wife guns are repugnant. They have no place in her clean and predictable world of breakfast meetings with bottled water served by eager assistants. After the evening workout at the health club, she's accustomed to driving her late model Lexus into your three car garage then relieving your baby's nanny. The thought of stopping off at the range for a half hour to hone her skills just doesn't compute. That's cowboy stuff.

It can be very difficult to understand that there is another world beyond yours. It's much more common, but you never see it or have to think about it. That's the world from which violent predators emerge. They would not understand your world any more than you could understand theirs. When their world intersects with yours, you may need to get your "hands dirty". Quick.

Sir, you have hit the proverbial nail squarely on the head. Great post.

starshooter231
November 28, 2007, 09:34 PM
My wife is an anti. She does not see the need for guns. She thinks the police and military should have them, but not us. She thinks it is fine to own a long gun IF you are a hunter thats it. She does NOT like that I have my CPL and carry a gun. "If you want to carry a gun be a cop". She knows (because I told her) that I carry EVERY where we go (that is legal) but doesn't understand why. She doesn't really seem to think about it. She just bought me some clothes and asked if I liked them? I told her yes because the length of the fleece and vest are long enough to hide my sidearm when OWB. She doesn't know it but I have taught her to buy the "right" clothes.

She HATES firearms,but I LOVE HER.

Ed Ames
November 28, 2007, 10:06 PM
Utterly ludicrous position. First, check your math. That is one in ten trillion. If that were a true statement, no-one in the history of the universe ever needed, or ever will need, a gun.

If you buy the "guns used 2.5 million times per year to prevent crime, most often without firing a shot", then the true average is more like one in ten.

Your numbers aren't so hot either. US Population is about 300 million. If you have 2.5 million uses per year that gives you one use in about 120 people. Then you take the time factor. I said, "Next Few Months." Call it 1/4th of a year. We're at one chance in four hundred eighty. 1:480.

Now we get to crime distribution. Most crime is committed by AND against people in the lower socioeconomic strata. Most crimes are committed in areas of resource deprivation aka poverty. That isn't a small factor... people in poverty experience 10 times the crime that wealthier people experience. So now we are at 1:4800. Quite a distance from your 1:10.

...then we get into controllable risks. If you know you are going to be more vulnerable for the next three months and it really freaks you out, deal with it.

Maybe the number is 0.0002% maybe it's 0.00001%. Yes, the risks are higher than my 0.0000001% figure by two or three zeros. No, that's not as big an error as your 10% figure. In any case it is vanishingly small. Note that you may need adjust your lifestyle to attain these levels of safety but that plays into the pro-carry argument the OP is trying to make to his wife. "Oh, we can't go there too many people have been killed doing that."

Superlite27
November 29, 2007, 09:57 AM
Remember: When seconds count, the police are only minutes away.

30 cal slob
November 29, 2007, 10:26 AM
i continue to believe that the best antidote for an anti-gun wife ...

is another pro-gun woman, particularly a firearms safety instructor.

best not to argue with the wife. as was wisely pointed out here by one of the mods, there is a husband-wife dynamic that gets in the way when one spouse tries to indoctrinate the other. so don't try.

have someone else do it. women will listen to each other.

offer to take your wife to a firearms safety/personal protection class taught by a qualified FEMALE instructor. bribe the wife to go if you have to.

give it some time, it will sink in.

RubenZ
November 29, 2007, 10:32 AM
women will listen to each other.

Aint that the truth. In regards to xmas decorations I suggested to my wife we put ribbon around our huge pillars. She thought it would look dumb UNTIL her mother said it would look cute :rolleyes:

Conqueror
November 30, 2007, 10:51 AM
Curare - have you shown her the CDC report on gun legislation? I'm a medical student, and many of my peers are vehemently anti-gun. However, most educated folks in this country are at least aware of the CDC and accept it as a fairly authoritative, fairly unbiased resource (particularly folks in healthcare). When I demonstrate to my anti-gun friends that even the CDC was unable to conclude that gun restrictions curb violence, I at least get them to listen a little more intently to my side. Your wife, being educated, may be a little more receptive to the CDC data than to facts you get from any website with the word "gun" in the URL.

Tokugawa
November 30, 2007, 12:19 PM
Arguing statistics, eh? Well, ya know what they say about 'em.:)

The very un-pc truth is that most shootings occur in the inner city, and most of the shooters and shootee's are minority gangbangers.

Most of them are young males 14-25 AKA "children" ,and most of them have "guns in the home" and most of them are far more likely to kill an "acquaintance or family member."

The Brady bunch have twisted this to make it seem like all across middle class America, people are shooting one another. BS- There is a reason the latest official stat's on killings in NYC showed white males involved as killers or victims at a staggering 7% rate. Yes, seven percent.

MiddleAgedKen
November 30, 2007, 12:56 PM
When I met my wife, I had only a Remington 510 and was only mildly interested in/curious about guns. Parenthood and current events have changed my outlook--I am much more conservative than I was ten years ago and am a Second Amendment absolutist (and more into shooting as a hobby).

She doesn't like guns, to say the least. When I had the one .22 it wasn't a huge deal to her, but as we discuss getting more it becomes an issue. I am resolved to be patient, because in some ways I'm not the same person I was when we met. It wouldn't be fair, I think, to play Pharaoh ("so let it be written--let it be done") at this stage.

It would be changing the deal unilaterally, just as it wouldn't be fair for one's previously indifferent spouse to suddenly start drinking the Brady Kool-Aid and say, "It's the guns or me." That has not happened in my case, nor do I believe it ever will--it's just a hypothetical counter-example. Actually, from our conversations regarding issues and events, my honey is getting to be almost as conservative as I am these days--she just doesn't know it yet ;).

Anyway--she's the best, she puts up with a lot, so I don't push hard.

Grizzly Adams
November 30, 2007, 03:49 PM
I've read all of your journal posts and it appears that all of your conversations have been about you and your wife, statistics, and what is going to happen or which one of you is going to get killed. Try to bring the protection of your 2 y/o into the disscussion. Point out all of the abductions, rapes, and killings of children thats running rampart in this country. Also point out that in your finanical situation you are prime targets for burglaries. One thing you need to avoid is ultimatums.

antsi
November 30, 2007, 05:13 PM
I feel that I now have complete control of the academic aspect of the debate. I also told her that I am documenting the dates when she verbally abuses me--calling me "mentally ill," for going about armed.

This does not sound healthy to me.

If you are CCWing daily, then aren't already you getting what you want? Why do you keep stirring this pot? Have you thought about just leaving it alone for a while?

This sounds more like some kind of mind game or power struggle than an actual gun issue.

divemedic
December 1, 2007, 08:27 AM
Here is how I have won similar discussion and arguments:

1 I do not carry a gun because I think I am going to be in a gun fight. If I knew I was going to be in a gun fight, I would endeavor not to be there, because the best way to win a gun fight is to survive, and the best way to do that is not to get in gun fights. I carry a gun because I don't know what will happen, and I choose to be prepared.

2 Your odds of being killed in an assault are 1 in 211. Your odds of being killed in a car accident are 1 in 228, yet you are considered foolish if you decline to wear a seatbelt. Your odds of being killed in a fire are 1 in 1471, yet most of us have fire extinguishers.

Dying isn't the only hazard. According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and the U.S. Department of Justice, your lifetime odds of being a victim of violent crime are 1 out of 2. Maybe they will be nice and they won't kill you. Maybe they will be nice and only leave you maimed, incapable of going to work and confined to a hospital bed.

In the United States, police average an 8 minute response to a call for a violent crime, so calling the police will frequently result in them arriving AFTER the crime is over.

You can either rely on the mercy of a criminal willing to kill you over the $23 in your wallet, rely on a police officer that will be here in 6 to 8 minutes, or you can rely on yourself and carry a gun.

Curare
December 1, 2007, 05:41 PM
Here is how I have won similar discussion and arguments:

1 I do not carry a gun because I think I am going to be in a gun fight. If I knew I was going to be in a gun fight, I would endeavor not to be there, because the best way to win a gun fight is to survive, and the best way to do that is not to get in gun fights. I carry a gun because I don't know what will happen, and I choose to be prepared.

2 Your odds of being killed in an assault are 1 in 211. Your odds of being killed in a car accident are 1 in 228, yet you are considered foolish if you decline to wear a seatbelt. Your odds of being killed in a fire are 1 in 1471, yet most of us have fire extinguishers.

Dying isn't the only hazard. According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and the U.S. Department of Justice, your lifetime odds of being a victim of violent crime are 1 out of 2. Maybe they will be nice and they won't kill you. Maybe they will be nice and only leave you maimed, incapable of going to work and confined to a hospital bed.

In the United States, police average an 8 minute response to a call for a violent crime, so calling the police will frequently result in them arriving AFTER the crime is over.

You can either rely on the mercy of a criminal willing to kill you over the $23 in your wallet, rely on a police officer that will be here in 6 to 8 minutes, or you can rely on yourself and carry a gun.

That's gold.

Thanks for the advice everyone. Things are going well here. It has been quiet since the bathroom debate. Over time I believe that my wife will accept concealed carry--just as she accepted my love of firearms when I first met her.

Nightwing
December 2, 2007, 12:38 PM
Dude!!!! If you have any breakthroughs.... tell me! MY wife is the EXACT SAME WAY! Getting my concealed carry in like 1 month. Taking a class within the next 2 weeks or so and then just applying.
My wife fights me on EVERY ISSUE like this... so hard not to walk away when she starts acting like this.
Let me know.

Black Adder LXX
December 2, 2007, 04:28 PM
My wife was very anti and is coming around. Somebody earlier said:
A few incidents of "close-to-home" violence got my whole family more interested in firearms.
Some incidents have done the same for my family. Since I brought the first handgun home, I have done a lot of research on this and other boards. I've also learned a lot on Pax's corneredcat.com. Since then I have made sure to point out every instance of violent crime in our area (I don't often watch the news, but usually hear about stuff in my neighborhood on this board). As my wife has come to see how dangerous South Florida is, it has been a lot better. I've actually gotten my wife to go shooting with me, and I think she may be coming around on getting her own CCW... The trick is patience, and strategic conversations on the facts of how dangerous the world is...

markmc753
December 2, 2007, 10:25 PM
Here is how I have won similar discussion and arguments:

1 I do not carry a gun because I think I am going to be in a gun fight. If I knew I was going to be in a gun fight, I would endeavor not to be there, because the best way to win a gun fight is to survive, and the best way to do that is not to get in gun fights. I carry a gun because I don't know what will happen, and I choose to be prepared.

2 Your odds of being killed in an assault are 1 in 211. Your odds of being killed in a car accident are 1 in 228, yet you are considered foolish if you decline to wear a seatbelt. Your odds of being killed in a fire are 1 in 1471, yet most of us have fire extinguishers.

Dying isn't the only hazard. According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and the U.S. Department of Justice, your lifetime odds of being a victim of violent crime are 1 out of 2. Maybe they will be nice and they won't kill you. Maybe they will be nice and only leave you maimed, incapable of going to work and confined to a hospital bed.

In the United States, police average an 8 minute response to a call for a violent crime, so calling the police will frequently result in them arriving AFTER the crime is over.

You can either rely on the mercy of a criminal willing to kill you over the $23 in your wallet, rely on a police officer that will be here in 6 to 8 minutes, or you can rely on yourself and carry a gun.

Could you please site your source for these stats??
Thanks much!

mgregg85
December 3, 2007, 12:09 AM
I hate when people say that I am paranoid or that I live in fear because I choose to carry a pistol. I don't live in fear, I live in confidence. I'm confident that at least now in the very small chance that I might get attacked, I could defend myself. I know that it is rather unlikely to happen but your also unlikely to get into a car accident, yet people still wear seatbelts.

yahkohb
December 3, 2007, 11:00 AM
As Chris Rock eloquently puts it, women are not handicapped by sense or logic in an argument. :)

More seriously, your actions are challenging her feelings on the issue, and this has clearly triggered a "fight or flight" response. right now she's fighting, and she's fighting over her feelings, not over your concealed carry permit. trying to overwhelm her with statistics and "win" the argument isn't going to do anything but piss her off and push her into "flight" mode. statistics and data alone are not enough to change someone's feelings.

I was in a similar situation. my wife didn't grow up around guns, had never been around guns, had never shot a gun. when we met, her opinion was along the lines of "the only reason you own a gun is to commit a crime". not surprisingly she didn't like the fact that I got a CHL. by the time we got married a couple years later, she was pretty much completely accepting. if it was up to her I think she'd still rather not have any guns in the house, even though she will occasionally get spooked and ask me if I'm carrying. what allowed her to change was seeing me, over time, own guns, use and carry them responsibly, without ever pressuring her or being in her face about it. there were many times when she didn't know I was carrying until she saw me put my pistol in the safe. I never made a big deal about it and tried not to respond with anything more than "it's just a gun", as if it were no more routine than tossing my keys, chapstick, and cell phone into my pocket.

what it ultimately boils down to for many folks who are uncomfortable with concealed carry is a misguided notion that carrying a gun will make you act differently. and what dispels this is her seeing you, over time, carry a gun and NOT acting differently. don't hide it, but definitely don't flaunt it, because that will only reinforce her beliefs. it's your example that is going to win her acceptance, not your words. so stop talking and start packing ;)

Maxinquaye
December 3, 2007, 12:19 PM
HAH! My Ex was very anti gun when I met her. Also very much her own woman, successful exec, etc.

When we got married, she knew I had a gun safe and I knew she had two Tivos; everything was on the table.

The marriage didn't last more then 20 months (oil and water; we're still friends), but when we split up I left a .357 in the nightstand at her request.

Hopefully yours will come around like mine did.

Markbo
December 3, 2007, 12:24 PM
I am not about to give you or anyone marriage advice. Suffice it to say that your wife sounds a lot like my ex wife. My love of firearms, my passion for RTKBA and CCW were not what caused her to be my ex.

It was that I changed as a human being and she did not like it. I became a Christian, an activist and a better human being. I was tired of being in a purchasing co-op. I have less money, fewer material possessions and work a lot less hours. I also have so much more happiness today that I often wonder what was wrong with ME then.

She has become very, very happy. Each time we talk I take great pains to ask her "How are YOU? - How are you DOING?". She always responds by telling me what new and wonderful 'thing' she has obtained. A boat, a lake house, a Cadillac, ad nauseum. She is educated, owner of her own business and very opinionated.

Anyway, my current love was not an anti. She is a non. But she is absolutely vehement in her belief that NO ONE needs a 50 caliber sniper rifle or explosives or more than 10 round magazines and that the government has every right to legislate them just like they do cars. She is what liberals hope to make. She too thought it odd that I would carry a gun. She was very uncomfortable with it. I took her to the range, I told her about the statistics and most of all, I made my guns part of what I do around the house. It is not at all uncommon to have a gun parts on the kitchen counter... a 1911 taken apart on the coffee table. Not for cleaning though!! :what: or a gun just laying on my desk. She rather likes the loaded shotgun in the bedroom. :D

All of this has eventually desensitized her to the point that she does not care. Now it is simply a non issue. I don't care what shoes she wears or earrings she matches and she doesn't care about my pistols. I like it that way and keep it that way.

I am not intimating this mirrors your story at all. I am just telling you my experience in hopes you can make it work for you. A marriage is worth fighting for too if you love and respect your partner, warts and all.

Curare
December 3, 2007, 05:05 PM
Dude!!!! If you have any breakthroughs.... tell me! MY wife is the EXACT SAME WAY! Getting my concealed carry in like 1 month. Taking a class within the next 2 weeks or so and then just applying.
My wife fights me on EVERY ISSUE like this... so hard not to walk away when she starts acting like this.
Let me know.

I'm probably the last person to give you marriage advice. This turned out to be like fights we have had regarding important issues over the years. We fought, we made up, and then we moved on. In some ways this has made us stronger, and each intereaction she is becomming more tolerant of concealed carry.

We went to a party downtown. I carried. She said, are you going to have anything to drink--I said "no," I don't want to break any laws. She replied that I was an "idiot," which is great progress. :D

At dinner yesterday I made the biggest step in the overall philosophical stance of our marriage. I told my wife that she sounded a lot like a Libertarian--and she agreed. Years ago I told her that she would become more and more conservative as we paid more taxes and moved further away from college. That's amazing progress.

yongxingfreesty
December 3, 2007, 06:51 PM
very nice, let her know who in charge and show her your backhand if ya have to......

htxred
December 3, 2007, 07:06 PM
theres absolutely nothing wrong with being mentally ill, paranoid, or a cowboy.

Markbo
December 4, 2007, 12:39 AM
very nice, let her know who in charge and show her your backhand if ya have to......

Good Lord I wish people would use smilies when they are kidding. And if they are not kidding I hope they never post anything else.

dasmi
December 4, 2007, 12:40 AM
If I ever gave my ladyfriend the backhand, I don't think I'd wake up the following morning.

htxred
December 4, 2007, 10:21 AM
my wife was very against me getting my first pistol. but i put my foot down and picked her up to go get it with me anyways. i told her to give me a month to show her i can be responsible. ever since then, i've bought/sold/traded a gun every month. she even goes to the shooting range with me and reminds me to carry when we go out. so wonderful. she even rubs my feet at night.

RubenZ
December 4, 2007, 10:52 AM
People are just afraid of what they don't know. If you just make them aware and educate even a tad you will find that you can get good results and find a good middle ground or even a new shooting partner.

target1911
December 4, 2007, 11:41 AM
WOW. I must see how this plays out.

I will agree wit 2 things here
FIRST being that I too think it has some to do with controle issues.
Second being...People are just afraid of what they don't know

Grizfire
December 5, 2007, 01:26 AM
People are just afraid of what they don't know

People are also afraid of what they don't understand. Your wife's lack of experience with guns is the root of her negativity toward guns.

Perhaps if you show your wife that there are other uses for guns besides self defense, she'll lighten up about CCW.

Compromise with your wife by having the two of you join a trap league. She will see that the competition is fun. Even let her win a few rounds.

BridgeWalker
December 5, 2007, 01:35 AM
Even let her win a few rounds.

Y'know, considering how he's described his wife, I strongly suspect that if he can convince her to shoot some trap, she would be *incredibly* insulted at being allowed to win a few.

And rightly so. Considering the op seems more focused on other disciplnes, there's a strong chance his wife would quickly become more skilled than him at trapshooting.

Yeah, that's a good plan. So many women in trap, many of them successful, powerful women. Easy to learn, difficult to master. Guns highly adapted to the game so as to virtually useless for any effective violence. Probably start with a BT-99, a nice entry-level trap gun, single-shot to emphasis the non-violent nature of the gam. Lot of people who are focused on self-defense and other shooting disciplines but also lots of people who are very focused on clay sports alone and have no use for other guns. Nice point of entry for someone like the OP's wife.

Imho of course, being pretty interested in trap myself. The trouble seems to be getting her to go though.

Constantine-p89
December 5, 2007, 01:45 AM
+1 GrizFire

barnett25
December 5, 2007, 11:11 AM
She told me that she would leave me if I ever took up deer hunting

A little OT, but this really bugged me...
How do people like this expect to keep the deer population managed?
Does she want huge numbers of deer dying a slow death of starvation?
By taking over the natural predator's habitats we have thrown off the balance that was meant to exist. Everyone who lives in modern society is to blame for the suffering of overpopulated wildlife. And anyone who is against reasonable conservation-based hunting is doubly responsible.

Some people don't want to be responsible for killing "Bambi", but don't realize that by humanly killing some deer, your are preventing all of them from suffering.

Grizfire
December 5, 2007, 01:49 PM
she would be *incredibly* insulted at being allowed to win a few.

Yes, but there is an art to this. Let her win without her realizing it...is the point.

Grizfire
December 5, 2007, 02:06 PM
The trouble seems to be getting her to go [trapshoot] though.

Good point. We need to brain storm here. Hmmmm? Hey OP, does your wife have any friends that are more enthusiastic about guns? Perhaps you could ask her friends if they would like to join the trap team, this way your wife would be more inclined to give it a try.

Markbo
December 5, 2007, 11:11 PM
Or you could talk about all the pretty girls at the shooting range. :uhoh:

BridgeWalker
December 5, 2007, 11:55 PM
Perhaps you could ask her friends if they would like to join the trap team, this way your wife would be more inclined to give it a try.

It's just like golf, really, but without the heavy fertilizing so destructive to the environment. (That one has worked on some *seriously* anti-gun friends. Turns out all they hate more than guns is golf.)

Ignition Override
December 6, 2007, 02:58 AM
My only two guns are rifles. I have read only a few remarks up there, but people usually wonder something such as "Will he/she be safe and level-headed about this, in all situations?" "Is there a secret motivation here?"

It also surprised my wife and parents that I suddenly became interested in shooting after almost none since '83 (I hate paper targets, found a good outdoors spot and can shoot anything I throw in the water! A patrol Deputy mentioned that the area-with no ricochets-should be ok..) and almost overnight bought a brand-new M-1 carbine.
When my son was very young, I was never interested in a handgun anyway, but I was well aware that young boys have quite an ability to observe, listen and figure out where the gun and the ammo is. A next-door neighbor (age 10?) once showed me his father's revolver (his Dad was out) when I was about nine and my father was quite interested in this! The paradox for me was that instant protection and access would or could easily = danger for my son, but maybe I was wrong. I can speak for nobody else.

My wife would also be a bit concerned if I suddenly wanted to buy a handgun...carry permit or not. She is pretty level-headed about my new rifle hobby despite my clear enthusiasm for guns and a few other topics. The only potential problem is the cost of ammo for the carbine (both the carbine, .22 and all ammo are kept in a very high place).
Maybe a female friend of your wife can gently...very calmly... with careful, deliberate forethought and planning persuade her (in the right positive setting and time) to go with you for a one-time class on handgun safety, and/or show her the attractive female shooters at a local range. This last option WILL keep her attention-after hearing that a guy is going to the range, women's ears would then go up like F-105 'Wild Weasel crews' "trolling for SAMs" in 1972 near the Paul Doumer Bridge. Too bad that "H. Jane" was not then at an SA-2 radar site. The POWs would not have been better off.

A friend got his carry permit not long ago (.40 Walther and .45 Colt) and I would be glad to give you his cell-phone number if it would help. Jimmy might also have some helpful thoughts for your wife. Maybe J's wife might also help or send an e-mail. When he is out, his slender, petite wife has a shotgun and can apparently use it. I would never have imagined this. They had us over for T'giving dinner.

Ask whether you want his number and I will request these.
Hang in there.

Markbo
December 6, 2007, 11:42 AM
I have a few thoughts for you Iggy:
1. Shooting at or into water is bad joo joo. I don't care what any game official tells you. Rounds WILL ricochet. Not if, but when. Are you willing to risk the safety of everything and every one around for 1 to 1.5 miles that a stray round will never hit them?

2. Hiding guns and ammo is what leads 10 year olds to go looking for their Dad's guns. With proper training - you did mention proper training, right - the children MUST be taught that this is not a toy. This must never, ever be looked for or played with. If you want to see it... ask me. Your children would never take your car out for a drive would they?

Ever seen 10 year olds mowing the lawn? Sure. Mom's don't freak out over that because they know that the boys have been taught how dangerous they are and to be careful. The same can be done and should be done with firearms.

3. Hiding ammo in a high place is not securing it. All firearms and all ammunition should be secured in the homes/presence of children. Secured means locked up in a container that they cannot get into and they cannot move. Want to see it? Ask me, then I will gladly show you. Don't ask me and I catch you poking around.... SEVERE punishment will ensue because you I have taught you how dangerous they are... they are not toys.

All of this training should make the little woman a whole lot more comfortable as well. You can get all sorts of good information on this subject from the NRA Eddie the Eagle training programs.

BridgeWalker
December 6, 2007, 11:47 AM
All of this training should make the little woman a whole lot more comfortable as well

See, I can handle these "little woman" comments pretty well, mostly because I actually *like* guns and will put up with a lot of bs because I like to be around guns and gun talk. Also, because I haven't run into that sort of thing at my range, yet.

But while you guys are wondering why it is so hard to get a strong, sophiscated, modern woman into the shooting scene, you really oughta realize that using phrases like "the little woman" has an awful lot to do with it. It is incredibly offensive.

Just some advice from a woman. ;)

Markbo
December 6, 2007, 11:57 AM
Really? I honestly had no idea. I often use that phrase because in today's world, it is not always the case that couples are married. Spouse, SO and other phrases are useful... but I really hadn't thought of TLW being insulting. :confused:

Thank you for your insight

BridgeWalker
December 6, 2007, 12:09 PM
Significant other is imho the best way out of that sticky situation. Also, many/most couple living together don't, ime, take offense at being referred to as husband and wife in conversation. That's probably not the best rule to go by. It is however far, far less offensive than tlw.

"The little woman" is a diminutive. It feels about as good to me as being called a boy or a little man would feel to you. Except that no one would question your righteous indignation, whereas people would accuse a woman of being a bitch if she spoke up against it.

I'm not little. In any way. Not in size, although that is irrelevant. What really matters is that I am not small in terms of my knowledge, my experience, in the worth of my opinions or in the expression of them. Certainly not in my relationship with my husband.

So, yeah. Don't call me little. And that goes for just about any woman. ;)

Ignition Override
December 7, 2007, 03:14 AM
Markbo:

We have no kid around here anymore and I appreciate your straightforward comments (he is a college student).

If necessary, I will buy some sort of box with a lock on it for the ammo, even though no kids ever come into the house.

Have a buddy from northeast of Austin who is on the Navy Marksmanship Team (M-1 Garand). He can recommend a good box with a solid lock.

lanternlad1
December 7, 2007, 11:36 AM
My wife is much like yours. She is also an executive (CTO) and has a Ph.D in Chemistry. She doesn't like handguns, but doesn't mind rifles or shotguns. When I first talked of CCW, she "refused" to "allow" handguns in HER house. I did it anyway. She called me paranoid. I ignored it and did my thing anyway. She tried many times to get me to "give up this gun nonsense". I ignored her (on the issue) and did my thing. She mentioned leaving once, I showed her where the door was. (She stopped taking that tack right quick after that.) Once she got used to the idea of handguns in the house, I insisted she get herself one and learn how to use it. She called me "borderline abusive" for trying to force her to get a handgun. I pointed out that abusers don't usually try to arm their intended victims.

She got the handgun "to shut me up".

And was glad she did when a psycho tried to get into her car at a stop sign. She didn't fire it, the laser was enough to scare him off.

She's a believer now. Still doesn't like handguns, but accepts the necessity. Point out the those who hurt themselves with handguns are usually not trained in their use.

I agree with the poster who said this is about power. The gun gives you an advantage over her (in her mind). Even the odds, and insist she get one and learn how to use it. Take the fight to her, so to speak. Empower her to protect her own life, and not have to rely on you. I bet if you use this approach, she'll see things differently.

Sniper X
December 7, 2007, 12:15 PM
OK, my input is, she is quoting statements, or derogatory slurs right out of the libby playbook. You don't need to worry about her being right of course, because she isn't. The current pyschie of Americans and guns is split about 70 30 from what I gather. There are the 30 percent of those who think exactly like your wifee, and those 70 odd percent who think like you, that it is perfectly sane, and actually a good idea to be trained, and carry a firearm for your personal protechtion.

Of course I am in the top of that 70percentile!

I deal with those who make sayings like that by quitely saying you can choose what you want, to not carry a self defense weapon, and I can choose what I want, TO carry a self defense weapon. That is what America is all about, freedom of choice, do you not agree with or beleive in freedom of chopice? If she says no, not to guns, then tell her there are others who don't agree with freedoom of choice of women to vote or for women to have the right to choose, or for women to make any of their own decisions. Then tell her there are hundreds of women who protect themselves from rape and being murdered with their personal CCW weapon every year that she doesn't hear about from those telling her guns are bad.

BuntlineSpecial
December 7, 2007, 12:31 PM
Curare, it sounds like you have your hands full, and I sympathise. For the most part it would be difficult, or counterproductive for me to offer advise, you know best your own situation. My wife (of six years, and two kids) is a former MP, college educated and still "has her moments" when ... shall we say she channels Oprah. As previously noted, facts do not trump emotion. And when the names, like "mentally ill" start flying, it is hard to stay to the High Road, but stick to it.
The fact that I have "protection" along with me most of the time has nothing to do with the circles permanatly engraved in my old college wallets. It was like that when we met, was a constant factor in our courtship. When we started getting serious, I showed her the contents of my safe and asked if she could "Deal with this", as it was not about to change.
We discussed the reality of the sitation, that "I go or the guns go" had only one conclusion (Not that it has not been uttered when emotions/hormones are high), came to agreeable terms and for the most part, this has worked out well.
Speaking as a former (still dabbling) LEO, I applaud your wish to CCW, especially in the light of the events in Omaha. Getting the responsible citizens aware and involved may be the last hope we have as a nation vis-a-vis the domestic problems we face.
Hold your ground, but listen attentively to her concerns. This is most likely a power issue to her, as has been said. Explain your desire to keep her and yourself safe, establish were the weapon will be kept when you are not wearing it (those four-finger push button lockers are great, and inexpensive).
Speaking as a fellow buckeye, PM me, if you wish. if we are local, let's hit the range together.

Curare
September 8, 2008, 03:41 PM
UPDATE

10 months in and everything is fine. It's actually been fine since early Spring. My wife could care less now. I have demonstrated that I am safe and responsible with concealed carry.

dasmi
September 8, 2008, 03:42 PM
Good deal.
My girlfriend not only supports it, she thinks it's sexy :)

hso
September 8, 2008, 04:40 PM
Curare,

Could you outline the process and give a general overall perspective?

Rugerlvr
September 8, 2008, 05:47 PM
Curare,

It seems you have done your part to educate her that concealed carry is not inherently evil, as she seemed to think at the outset. Good for you. I'm glad all is well.

(I'm also glad that my wife and I put our papers in for Concealed Carry at the same time....)

rainbowbob
September 8, 2008, 08:24 PM
Curare:

It sounds like we married the same woman - only we've been at it 33 years!

It's been a roller-coaster the whole time - but we're committed to the ride.

I documented my own woes and travails with precisely the same kind of response from my ever-lovin' when I got my CPL last year.

In all fairness to her, I had little or no interest in firearms for the preceding 32 years. She was scared of guns: They can go off accidentally!...I was going to hurt myself or someone else!...I was going to get us killed drawing on a bad guy!...I even got the mentally ill comment.

Let's just say she is a somewhat volatile, histrionic personality - but like you I love my wife and ain't goin' anywhere. And neither is she.

Eventually (several weeks) the hysterics subsided. She can only stay at that level for a finite amount of time and then has to find something else to focus on.

She now realizes that I am responsible with my firearms...that I have made the effort to get some good training...that I have not turned into some kind of crazy vigilante looking for a gunfight...that I am willing to respect our daughter and son-in-laws request not to carry in their house...etc.

I also rarely missed an opportunity to point out news stories and such in which either a gun was used in self-defense - or might have saved lives if one had been available.

Recently she told me she had the most realistic dream she can remember: She dreamed she woke up in our bed to the sound of a crashing break-in. Then she really woke up in a cold sweat - and was able to go back to sleep because she realized that I had a gun near to hand if it had been real.

It is no longer an issue.

Be gentle, and be firm. Don't allow yourself to get drawn into emotional arguments (you know you can't win those). Let her know in no uncertain terms that you will never use it except in the most extreme circumstance of life or death.

Trust me...this too shall pass.


[EDIT]

Oops! After writing this post I realized this is an old thread and the problem no longer is a problem for the OP. Well like I said...this too shall pass.

rugerman07
September 8, 2008, 08:46 PM
Divorce her. She sounds like a loose cannon to me. Wives are a dime a dozen, but our 2nd amendment rights are walking a thin line. JUST KIDDING!

If you really love her, respect her anti gun views, sell all your guns and devote yourself totally to HER! When she yells, S..., squat and strain, show her how much you really love her and there is nothing you wouldn't give up to prove your love to her.

mgkdrgn
September 8, 2008, 09:15 PM
Curare,

Glad to hear it has worked out for you. My wife (my 2nd) was a little skeptical at first, but is fine with it now. I explained it this way:

A few years ago I use to travel quite a bit for work, and some of my clients we not exactly in the 'best parts of town'. My first wife was a bit concerned about my safety and expressed that concern to a good friend of mine who told her not to worry because I "wasn't the victim type."

When I learned of this conversation I asked what he meant by that. He said "Your too big, too young, to fast, and too aware of what is going on around you. They'll pick an easier target."

It's some 15 years later now, and I'm still big, still aware ... but young and fast ... not so much. I'm just trying to even the odds against those that would harm me for the spare change in my pockets or the shoes on my feet.

youngda9
September 9, 2008, 09:31 AM
rugerman07...I was smiling when I read your message "Divorce her. She sounds like a loose cannon to me. Wives are a dime a dozen, but our 2nd amendment rights are walking a thin line." :what:

I was thinking finally, a non Dr. Phil type answer. I love it. But then you ruined it by saying "JUST KIDDING!" and then getting all Dr. Phil on us like everyone else. :neener:

Good thread. Glad to know that women can change their mind. :banghead:

ZeSpectre
September 9, 2008, 09:54 AM
Curare,
Glad things are working out for ya.

Ironically, just last night I was inspecting and re-oiling some of my stuff that hasn't been used in a while (like since last hunting season) and my wife looked at what I had out and said "good Lord you have a lot of guns". (I don't but she still thinks two is a lot and don't get me started on more than 500 rounds of ammo:rolleyes:).

I just kinda looked at her and said "seriously, after eight years of marriage are we going to start this up again"?

She kinda grinned at me and said "nah...but I'm going shoe shopping tomorrow". :evil:

wyocarp
September 9, 2008, 10:00 AM
Even though I have always been into guns, during the early years of our marriage, I was busy with other things (like young children) and so I didn't do much with shooting or guns.

Now that my daughter has gratuated and my son is almost 17, shooting has become a regular event in our household. My wife makes comments about our "arsenal" from time to time, but accepts the fact that I carry most of the time. I try to send her articles about self defense and articles where people have needed a gun to defend themselves. I think it helps.

gregormeister
September 9, 2008, 10:04 AM
Poor guy...you know buddy 50 years ago a backhand might have fixed the comments but nowadays.......just kidding....she'll accept it, give it time...remember to tell her that you'd rather have it and not need it then need it and not have it...

ByAnyMeans
September 9, 2008, 12:02 PM
Patience , communication and a little bit of cojones, who would of thought.

OOOXOOO
September 9, 2008, 01:16 PM
I got a ccw permit five years ago. At first my wife did not like it and I heard some of the same comments. After a while she did not complain so much about the fact I was carrying a gun but more about the fact I carry two guns, two extra magazines, a flashlight, a pocket knife, and cell phone constantly. I belive she said I needed a "Bat Belt." In the last six months, because of things that have happened around the house while I was gone, she has shown intrest in learning more about firearms and her saftey in general. Maybe it just takes longer to set in with some people. I have actually overheard her talking to a friend from work when she said " You should talk to my husband he is always prepared!"

crebralfix
September 9, 2008, 01:39 PM
It will take time to win her over.

You will need to EXTRA gun safety conscious. Proper handling of firearms, especially in her presence, will go a long way. I exaggerate keeping the muzzle pointed in a safe direction and demonstrating the gun is unloaded when I handle it.

My wife had the same problem, but I told her in the beginning. I showed her pictures of me in training and at events. Apparently, it didn't scare her off.

Last year she said she felt safer knowing I have weapons available. She doesn't participate in my shooting activities, but the "feeling" part is most important. In fact, the other day, she mentioned going shooting with me at a private range as "something to do together." That took 5 years...one drop at a time.

The magazine article thing works too. A friend of mine convinced his wife to carry after about two decades of work. Sure...it's slow...but it worked :)

jpsimms
September 9, 2008, 01:47 PM
I have been having a similar situation with my wife for a while now, but it is different in that I open carry. It took 6 months for me to get past her "I don't want you wearing that thing" arguement to the point where I could get her reasoning. It wasn't the gun it's self, but the fact that all could see it. She cares a lot what people think. She has finally said that if I'm gonna wear it "Can't you hide it or something?" I said "I will start the application process next month" And we are both happy now.
As long as she is ok with me carrying I'm happy, I don't care if it's not openly any more.

Good job getting her to come around!!!

Gibbles
September 9, 2008, 02:00 PM
I turned my wife, mostly...
I just showed her a little of this and that, stories from this and other forums.

I pull a gun out of the safe every night to put in the night stand, I have caught her rolling her eyes at me sometimes, but she mostly seems to understand my need to protect us.
I figure that I'll probably never need it, but if I ever do I'll be glad I have it.
And if a love one is hurt or killed because of a BG, most say they would give anything to go back and take action to prevent/stop it.

The last one seemed to get my wife to understand the most.

Good luck! :)

wyocarp
September 9, 2008, 02:43 PM
After twenty years, my wife still hates it when I shoot any of mine in the house, but I'm working on that. It's mostly that I have to remember to have her cover her ears and she wants me to clean up the brass before she vacuums.

single stack
September 9, 2008, 02:58 PM
My wife doesn't let me shoot in the house at all!
If the doors are closed the garage gets pretty smokey sometimes.
I limit myself to .22 rimfire. The 1911 was hell on the backstop.

SS

Major T. J. "King" Kong: Survival kit contents check. In them you'll find: one forty-five caliber automatic; two boxes of ammunition; four days' concentrated emergency rations; one drug issue containing antibiotics, morphine, vitamin pills, pep pills, sleeping pills, tranquilizer pills; one miniature combination Russian phrase book and Bible; one hundred dollars in rubles; one hundred dollars in gold; nine packs of chewing gum; one issue of prophylactics; three lipsticks; three pair of nylon stockings. Shoot, a fella' could have a pretty good weekend in Vegas with all that stuff.

Aguila Blanca
September 9, 2008, 04:07 PM
Thank you for the update, Dr. Curare. I'm happy the storm blew over. I will admit, as of your last previous update I didn't give it snowball's chance in July of working out.

skinewmexico
September 9, 2008, 04:12 PM
If you ever need it...........she'll love it.

rugerman07
September 9, 2008, 07:55 PM
rugerman07...I was smiling when I read your message," Divorce her. She sounds like a loose cannon to me. Wives are a dime a dozen, but our 2nd amendment rights are walking a thin line."

I was thinking finally, a non Dr. Phil type answer. I love it. But then you ruined it by saying "JUST KIDDING!" and then getting all Dr. Phil on us like everyone else.

Maybe I should change my user name to "Dr. Rugerman07." I was just being silly.

jad0110
September 9, 2008, 10:29 PM
As others have said, often it is not necessarily the guns that are feared, but what they represent. Perhaps for some, guns are a reminder that there is in fact evil people in the world, and they just as soon keep sucking their thumb in the corner and pretend that it could never happen to them. Guns sort of burst that security bubble for them.

Last year she said she felt safer knowing I have weapons available. She doesn't participate in my shooting activities, but the "feeling" part is most important. In fact, the other day, she mentioned going shooting with me at a private range as "something to do together." That took 5 years...one drop at a time

I figure that maybe in another five years, I'll be in the same place with my wife. Actually, she does get out once a year just to maintain a VERY basic level of "training", if you can call it that. My wife is odd on this subject; she is pro 2nd amendment, but she hates guns. She is fine with hunting being legal, but has threatened to leave if I ever took up hunting (I don't plan to, not for me, but I understand why people enjoy it). She is comforted by the fact that I carry, which is odd because she thinks that because we live in a nice area, bad stuff won't ever happen to us. On the other hand, she doesn't understand why I keep a .357 in a GunVault beside the bed.

She also finds it irritating that I "need" more than one - I will say that she gets pretty pissed when I ask why she needs more than one purse :neener:. Heck, she has about 3x as many purses as I have guns :D .

SoCalShooter
September 10, 2008, 03:43 PM
Damn, good luck!

Armueller2001
September 10, 2008, 06:34 PM
I never understood why people who would most benefit from concealed carry (significant others, parents, friends) are opposed to it...

When I got my CHL I told my girlfriend she now has an armed personal bodyguard in 28 states.

I'm surprised your wife told you she'd leave you if you went deer hunting... ***... That's like you saying you'd leave her if she ever played tennis...

wep45
September 11, 2008, 12:31 AM
My wife is not real keen on firearms, but before I bought my first gun we went to the range, rented guns and shot together. She has fired a .22, 10mm, 357, and a 45.

I saw a good deal on a S&W model 686-4PP, told her and bought it.

She still isn't keen on firearms, but I got my .357 magnum and she has her opinion. ;)

ChrisVV
September 15, 2008, 01:42 AM
My wife was a little confused by it at first, now I am told on a weekly basis about an article, or something on the news and how glad she is that I carry.

RDak
September 15, 2008, 07:48 AM
Good going Curare!!

I'm lucky, my wife of 30 years grew up on a farm and has absolutely no fear of firearms.

Oh, she'll shake her head and laugh when I start acting like John Wayne but I do that on purpose! :D

Have you got her a CCW yet? :p

Edit: I read more of this post and it is UNBELIEVABLE how many of you guys are married to women with an inherent fear of firearms. Man, I WAS LUCKY!!

Why are they such wimps? I'm serious here. Don't they realize there is evil out there?

To you guys, with wives who fear firearms: Did they grow up in the suburbs? Just curious.

Irrational fear of firearms is so foreign to the wife and I that I wonder if it is because they grew up in safe little suburban enclaves?

No insults are intended here. I'd really like to get somewhat of a handle on this one.

I mean, I have a large gun safe and am careful when handling firearms but we don't FEAR them. You get what I mean.

rainbowbob
September 15, 2008, 01:35 PM
Irrational fear of firearms is so foreign to the wife and I that I wonder if it is because they grew up in safe little suburban enclaves?

I grew up in a safe little suburban enclave - as did my wife (who is afraid of guns). I don't think it makes as much difference for men - who are more likely to have been exposed to firearms. However, living in the city means men and women are less inclined to shoot as part of their everyday lifestyle. That means women are rarely exposed to firearms in a positive way - but have plenty of negative exposures such as urban crime, the media, etc.

Women who grew up in the country are FAR more likely to have been exposed to firearms as a positive part of "normal" life - and therefore not as likely to develop irrational fears.

JustAnotherPlinker
October 1, 2008, 11:48 AM
Damn, sounds like my wife! She's a true blue Anti-gun Obama/Biden supporter. The fireworks really went off when I told her and her [teacher's union] mother that with Biden on the ticket I'd rather chew gravel than vote democrat. :barf:

Kansas has concealed carry, but as we're just now coming up on our first year married I'm easing her into my hobby [which she has known about since date #1]. She's even agreed to go shooting with me (I told her I was gonna make her an AR-15, and I am), only catch is that I have to learn hebrew!:eek:

MinnMooney
October 1, 2008, 11:58 AM
My neighbor's best friend is a serious hunter, shooter and gun-rights guy.... but his wife is totally against any guns - period. She won't let him keep any of his guns in the house, not even his bow! He has to store them at friends' and his parents' houses. And he is STILL MARRIED !!!! This has been going on for 10-12 years so I think he just accepts it as a cost of being married.

Not me! But, then again, I'm not married and answer to no one.

survivalgirl
October 1, 2008, 12:11 PM
Let here know that many people carry guns. I now of a 83 year gal that has a CCW and so does her 55 year old dauther.

Have her meet some females tat have CCW's and talk wit them tey wil change her mind fast.

D

GBExpat
October 1, 2008, 12:17 PM
My neighbor's best friend is a serious hunter, shooter and gun-rights guy.... but his wife is totally against any guns - period. ...

And they decided to get married?

NG VI
October 1, 2008, 12:37 PM
Ironically, just last night I was inspecting and re-oiling some of my stuff that hasn't been used in a while (like since last hunting season) and my wife looked at what I had out and said "good Lord you have a lot of guns". (I don't but she still thinks two is a lot and don't get me started on more than 500 rounds of ammo).

I just kinda looked at her and said "seriously, after eight years of marriage are we going to start this up again"?

She kinda grinned at me and said "nah...but I'm going shoe shopping tomorrow".


Sounds exactly like my relationship, except my wife doesn't really seem to think that I have an arsenal yet, just a lot of guns. When we first met she had said that she thought that only military and police should have guns, must not have been a strong conviction at all because she basically forgot about it completely, and she wants to get her carry permit as soon as possible, she just has to wait because we aren't bringing her shooting while she is pregnant.

ishredinmysleep
November 26, 2008, 12:19 AM
dude my girlfriend wanted me to stop hunting i told her either i hunt or were not goin out

Gibbles
November 26, 2008, 02:03 PM
Lol I told my now wife something along those lines when we first started dating. :)

franconialocal
November 26, 2008, 02:31 PM
You should copy the articles from the NRA magazine "American Rifleman" in the segment called "Armed Citizen". Maybe these articles would open her eyes to just how "real" this topic is. And if she wants to hear a "real life story"....have her get in touch with me!!!

moi_self26
November 26, 2008, 03:07 PM
Solution: have a friend of yours show up in the middle of the night to "break in" (disable/hide phones so she can't call the police), DA-DUH-DUH-DUH, Hubby and ole' faithful to the rescue, scare off your "intruder", then go get you some while your wife sings your praises :P

J/k of course, but it sounds good lol

AKCOP
November 26, 2008, 03:17 PM
It is hard for me to imagine living with someone who has such a different view about things like guns, self defense or hunting. Two people should have important things in common before marriage, shouldn't they?

sniper5
November 26, 2008, 09:25 PM
Well my new shooting partner, er. . wife was raised in a Bay Area liberal college professor pacifist household where guns were evil black noisy things that kill people and should be banned. She was OK with me shooting but didn't even want to see one. Then my son wanted me to teach him to shoot pistols and she went to the range a few times to watch and kind of got a feel that people were really nice. Then she was OK with the idea of a loaded shotgun in the closet. Then she was OK with a C & R license when she found out how they tied into history and saw how I got involved in studying WW1 and european history. Now she is shooting a revolver at the range and having fun, asking for more ammo and more time. We are going a step at a time and went shopping today looking at some .357 revolvers for her. Did it happen overnight? No, we have been married 29 years. What we have is a "live and let live" attitude towards each other, and a respect for each other's viewpoints.

The two things that changed her viewpoint? One was seeing an enfield as a box of parts being cleaned and prepped over a week or two, just springs and pieces of metal, and sitting talking to me while I was reassembling it at my bench and my question halfway through assembly: "At what exact moment does this take on a personality and become evil?" She said from that moment the lightbulb went on that it was just a machine, like a chainsaw.

The second? When I remarked to her that our last boy would be going off to college and she would be alone about half the nights of the week. (I work night shift in an ER) And if she had to call 911 I would feel better if she had some "teeth" until he showed up. She thought it was sweet that I cared and agreed to try some "Kindergarten 101" revolver shooting. After the first day with a .22 revolver she was hooked. Said she felt weird about it at first but now it's like driving a car. And she keeps saying she's having fun.

One step at a time. . .baby steps

Changing the world-one hoplophobe at a time

politicaldookie
November 26, 2008, 09:36 PM
Interesting thread...I'm happy to say that my wife is totally cool with guns. Actually too cool, she always wants to go to the range with me. :evil:

The only "static" she has ever given me is when I came home with an WASR- 10/63 before election night. She thought I was nuts, so she vented to one of her friends looking for support. Her g/f said "oh cool, where did he get it my hubby wants one too" :neener:

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