[Timthinker]

After reading a long thread about the top 10 military rifles of the 20th century, I began to wonder about the top 10 military handguns of all time. So, what are your votes? Remember, this thread is not confined soley to the 20th century, so voice your opinions.


Timthinker

[10-Ring]

Top 10?
1911, Makarov, BHP, some form of CZ & a flavor of Glock

[Heavy Metal Hero]

1911, Jericho 941, SIG P226R, 229 (?).

Forgot to add CZ75 and P-01 (Not sure if this gun is actually in service).

[takhtakaal]

a contender:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1917_revolver

[Timthinker]

Gentlemen,

You forgot about the Luger, the pistol that gave us the 9mm Parabellum round. Also remember that this inquiry is not limited to the 20th century or semi-auto pistols only.

Timthinker

[mekender]

Colt M1851 and 1861 Navy

[mekender]

oh, almost forgot the colt peacemaker

[DogBonz]

Well, here goes nothing-

In no particular order:

colt 1851
colt 1861
Colt 1911
Luger 9mm
Walther P38
BHP
Beretta 92fs
CZ something or other (no disrespect, I am just not well versed on the CZ model Numbers)
damn, I only have 8.... ummm the 1911.... oh yea, said that already...
the HK mk23 limited use but hey, it's my list.

and last but not least....
the Liberator pistol... it took longer to reload than it took to make and cost less than a stick of gum.... ha ha ha

[plexreticle]

Colt SA Army
1911
luger
tokarov
makarov
Browing High Power
Webly
3 others...

[Geronimo45]

1911
BHP
CZ 75/Makarov
Beretta 92
S&W Model 10
Webley
C-96 Mauser
Luger

CZ 75/Makarov - tie. Two excellent specimens from the Soviet Bloc. One's a blowback auto, one's a Browning-esque auto. Both known for reliabilty.

Beretta 92 - adopted by the US, France... and others. Odd recoil system, still seems to work well, seems to be getting a lot of popularity.

Model 10 - used in some variant or other by US forces for many years, likely used all over the globe.

Webley - because it's a big, distinctive chunk of metal with a grip that looks like a S&W, unlike most Euro revolvers. And because it shot a heavy bullet about the speed of a BB gun. Talk about big and slow. Served many years, pretty much covered the peak and fall of the British Empire.

Mauser - pretty popular weapon, used all over the world (except the US, except by Clint Eastwood) - especially Russia and China. First of the high-velocity, lightweight pistol cartridges.

Luger - use of Maxim's ideas, classic lines and appearance, one of the most old-school of modern semis.

[BlindJustice]

WHen they did it on the Military channel for Combat rifles
as well as battle tanks - the most recent programs I've seen
they usually list five criteria:

WHat 5 categories are appropriate for a Combat Handgun?
in both of the aforementioned programs 2 of the
categories are number produced & length of service.
what would be the other three?
Ease of manufacture?
Reliability ?
Accuracy ?
Cartridge/Ammo capacity?

Regardless 20th Centrury
No. 1 Greatest of All Time

Colt 1911A1

Other Candidates:
Browning Hi Power - First high Cap Magazine & adopted by many countries
Berretta 92/M9 - High Cap. & DA/SA Action
Going on 25 yrs with NATO but Italy used it since the early 50s.
Luger P08 - FIrst 9x19 but loses because of hand fitted parts
Walter P-38 - 9MM with Stamped parts but a short service life
Makarov
Sig 220 the father of the SIg 2xx series.
S & W M1917
S & W DA Revolvers on the K-Frame .38 Spcl.
Webley .455 - a very long service life

19th Century
COlt SIngle Action ARmy
S&W Schofield & the .44 Russian
Colt 1860 Army
COlt 1851 Navy

Did the French ever produce any thing ?

[Timthinker]

Yes, the Webley makes my list for service length and reliability. It was a long-serving gun of empire known for its power. The 1851 Navy was a practical sidearm, by which I mean one that could be carried on one's person rather than a horse. Indeed, the Walkers and Dragoons were truly horse pistols because of their weight and balance. Keep up the good work.


Timthinker

[Gunnerpalace]

Number 1

Colt M1911


But for historical and this is speculative at best: in a small museum in MA in a glass case there is an unobtrusive little BP gun fired a few times, a little over 250 years old only fired one time in combat at the Battle of Lexington, the shot heard round the world and the reason we can sit here and discuss it today, It might not be the most innovative but it had a job and was used as needed. That is why it will be 1 on my list.

[bwavec]

The 1911 as the the all time #1 for sure....almost 100 yrs old and still THE choice of the military elite !

[Ala Dan]

Studies Have Shown:

Colt 1911A1 (or variant)
Browning Hi-Power
Polish Radom
CZ ( or varaint)
French MAB

[Tom C.]

Top 10 Military Handguns:

1851 Colt Navy
1873 Colt Single Action Army
P’08 Luger
1911 Colt
Browning High Power
Webley .455 Revolvers
1917 Colt and S&W .45 ACP revolvers
CZ-75
Glock 17
SIG 226

[Liko81]

The 1911A1 of course tops the list. You don't keep a gun design around as GI-issue for two world wars and three major wars since (they were still popular if not standard in Desert Storm) if it's not a great gun. Added to that are:

- Colt .44 Magnum and .45 Long revolvers. Popular sidearms for officers during the 1800s, and of course they're the quintessential "Wild West" revolver.
- Walther P38. Just cause the Nazis used em doesn't mean it wasn't a good piece.
- Luger. Again, they were the enemy's gun in WWI, but not only were they the premiere weapon of the German-aligned forces, the 9x19 or 9mm Luger cartridge the pistol was designed to fire has gone on to be one of the most-used cartridges in handgun history.
- Beretta M9. The 92 series is a newer gun, but no less serviceable nor effective than the 1911.
- Glock 17/19. They and their descendants are definitely the most popular DAO design, and one of the most popular designs ever. Heavily used by modern European armies.
- FN Five-seveN. Much maligned, but you as a civilian can't get the round the gun was designed around. The 190SS armor-piercing 5.7 round will defeat most personal body armor currently in use, military or otherwise.

[mekender]

- FN Five-seveN. Much maligned, but you as a civilian can't get the round the gun was designed around. The 190SS armor-piercing 5.7 round will defeat most personal body armor currently in use, military or otherwise.

very true and a fine weapon no doubt... but the CZ-52 will do the same thing and its been around for close to 50 years

[DMK]

1911
Colt SAA
Luger
Broomhandle Mauser
Walther PP
S&W M&P (Victory)
P38
Browning HP
S&W Schofield (not so popular as a military sidearm, but cutting edge for it's day)
1851 Navy

[Timthinker]

Before anyone asks, the Colt 1911 was my first choice pick because of its service life, reliability and popularity. This certainly assures it a place in any top 10 pick of military handguns.

Let me add one more handgun to this list: the 1895 Nagant revolver. This was also a gun of empire, an eastern empire. The Nagant served through the final years of the Russian Empire, World War One, the Russian Civil War and World War Two. It also equiped the French Army in a modified form. Do not forget the French also administered an empire as well.:D This should give the Nagant a place in our top 10 list.


Timthinker

[nwilliams]

Colt 1911
Browning/FN HP
Beretta 92
Glock 17
Sig 226
CZ-75
Luger
Walther P38
Webley
Mauser C-96

Others I would consider.....
Jericho 941
CZ-52
Tokarev TT
Nagant 1895
Walther PP
HK VP-70 (for innovation)

[Timthinker]

To this point, I have named 5 of my top 10 list. Let me add three more to my list before I have our members guess at the last two. The P-38 makes the cut for being one of the first double-action semi-autos of adequate caliber to equip a major world power. This began a pattern which continues into the present.

Next, I add a design by John M. Browning: the Browning High Power. This pistol, chambered for the 9mm cartridge, was a reliable design offering a high capacity magazine for that day. Indeed, this gun has proven so reliable that over 50 nations adopted it at one time or another for their armed forces. The sheer popularity and reliability of that design earns this pistol a place in my list also.

The final "wonder nine" is the Glock 17 specifically, but Glocks generally. Now why would I include Glocks? They point to a trend in using polymers (plastics)
in handgun designs. Certainly, Glocks are reliable and accurate. But they seem revolutionary in breaking away from metals in handgun construction. For this reason, I believe it merits consideration.

What are the last two on my list? Start guessing. I will say they are not 9mm pistols as a clue. Good luck.


Timthinker

[Ed Ames]

1) 1740s pattern flintlock pistol (There are many to choose from). These aren't the first pistols but they are amongst the first that would be considered usable today.

2) Step forward to the Colt 1860, which is one of the best looking military revolvers of all times.

3) Step a little sideways to the Webley top-breaks for cartridge revolvers. Mk I or Mk II. S&W has some nice competitors but the Webleys were truly state-of-the-art military sidearms bought by many British officers for use in war zones.

4) Mauser 96 ... one of the first autoloaders and a real change in handgun technology.

5) Luger P-08... probably the pinnacle of "damn the manufacturing costs, double damn the parts count" military arms design.

6) Colt 1911... stagnation or refinement? Either way an undeniably well designed military pistol.

7) Browning High Power. Enter the double stack magazine and the start of firepower.

8) British Welrod in 9mm. The essence of its type. Cheap, ugly, limited usefulness, but very handy for some uses.

9) Makarov. Enter the 1950s and the double-action hammer drop decocker. It's what every officer should have in their pocket even if they have a fancy dress arm on their hip.

10) CZ-75 ... because I just can't see putting GLOCK on a list like this.

[Ash]

I would not consider the Luger in the to ten greatest. I would put it in the top ten most significant, but it wasn't a great pistol, even for its day. The Steyer 1911 was a far better military pistol, even if odd.

If I were to pick the greatest pistols of their day, it would be

1) Colt cap and ball revolvers (Walker, 1849 pocket, 1851 navy, 1860 Army, etc).
2) The Adams and Tranter revolvers of the later 1800's. These were double action revolvers and were superior to the SAA Colts of the day. They do not live on, but they were better, more usable pistols than the Colts.
3) Smith & Wesson Top Break Double-action revolvers. Not only were they double action with quick reload/ejection, they were copied by almost every other revolver-maker of the day. They were compact, reasonably powerful, and reliable.
4) Smith & Wesson Model 10 revolver - Best revolver of its day, the design lasting on in evolved for to today. Almost every revolver made today is an evolution of this design.
5) Webley Mk VI - the greatest Webley and the most rugged combat pistol in WWI - and it sometimes came with a bayonet.
6) Colt New Service - Father of the 1917 and originator of all other Colt designs that followed. Has one of the best triggers I have ever encountered.
7) Colt 1911 - First truly successful automatic. Yeah, the C96 really deserves this, but the 1911 was the grandfather of all automatics today save for the Beretta 92.
8) Browning Hi-power/Walther P-38, one introduced hi-capacity, the other double action in a full-size service auto, both well-made and reliable.
9) Beretta 92/CZ-75 - Both introduced the same year, more or less, and both represent the zenith of the Wonder Nine. Both are highly sought-after and well-respected. Both adopted by a wide range of militaries across the world.
10) Glock 17 - I can't stand Glocks, don't like them at all, but certainly the Glock 17 (all other Glocks are just variations of the same theme) is one of the 10 greatest handguns of all time.

Ash

[4v50 Gary]

1911 - almost a century old and still going strong.
P38 - one of the first 9mm to have DA/SA plus decocker safety. Its locking system was copied by Beretta and its firing pin block safety used by almost every gun maker today (including S&W).
C96 Mauser - Lego of guns. With exception of the grip screw, sight pin, the entire gun snapped together. Put a shoulder stock on it, detachable magazine and selective fire and you've a pretty nifty little package.
Soviet Steckin (sp) - selective fire when shoulder stock attached.
Tokarev - based on the Browning HP but with removable trigger group. Talk about making it easy for the armorer.
Browing High Power - classic design. Sturdy, reliable, shoulder stock optional. While not the first to have a double stacked magazine (the C96 has that honor), its locking system is much imitated by many guns today.
CZ-75 Modified Browning HP lock-up combined with DA/SA trigger. Sturdy, reliable and like the BHP, feels good in the hands. Darn accurate.
Glock - Not the first gun to use polymers (the HK VP70 beat it by a decade), but the gun that made polymers popular for handguns and launched the trend that many mfgs followed. Not my favorite, but it is deserving of being among the top ten

OK, so its only eight.



The P08 Luger is the prettiest, but it's finicky. Get it dirty, and it'll jam. I'll pass on it but it is sure pretty and feels terrific in the hands. I'll have to pass on it being a top pistol/handgun.

[BlindJustice]

I think some are losing sight of the question

Best COMBAT SERVICE Handgun
to me that means which ones were used
in War not just the best ones percieved
to be used or the ones bought and issued to
ttroops.

Criteria in a ranked order
Actual Successful Combat Use
Length of Service & Adaptability over time
Number of Weapons produced - Ease of Production
Cartridge / Mag. or CYl. Capacity & Reload Speed
Reliability / Combat Accuracy
Innovation or Cloned or Copied the Design

Put a value of 1 ( lowest) to 5 ( highest ) values
for each of the criteria & put a multiplier of 1.0 X by
2.0 X by 2/10ths of a value as to what is important and
applicable for a Combat Sidearm. It will grade out over
a practical perspective and historical viewpoint. down
good firearms that were superceded by tech.

After all the original question was about the MIlittary
channel and a long overdue look at Combat SIdearms

1911/1911
2 x 5.
1935 FN Hi-Power - first High Cap Mag.
LUger P-08 first 9mm x 19
Walther P-38 DA/SA
Beretta M92/M9 DA/SA
Sig 2nn Series from the 210 forward
S&W/Colt New Service M1917
Makarov SA
Webley .455 DA Top Break
CZ75 family
Mosin-Nagant Revolver
S & W Top Break - .44 Schofield/S&W/Russian
and in .44 rf when it was needed on the combat frontier
SAA 1873 Colt -
1851 COlt Cap & Ball Revolver


others
S & W K Frame .38 Special
Walther PP et al - first DA semi-auto
Colt Walker Dragoon arst thru third
because in the Cavalry they were saddle
weapons for a prolonged battle of mobility
French M80 ?

[Timthinker]

One point that has been alluded to about the 1911 pistol is its legendary status. Indeed, legendary status is the deciding factor in selecting my ninth military handgun. This weapon is so well-known that it may be the most recognized handgun design of all time. What is it? I am refering to the 1873 Colt Peacemaker.

Granted, the Peacemaker served for 19 years before the United States Army adopted a double-action design to replace it. But those years have been burn into the imagination of the world through TV programs and movies about the American West. So popular is this gun that several different firearms companies still produce it for shooters. In fact, Western shooting competitions have emerged in recent years that have breathed new life into guns from that era. This is why I place it on my list.

Let us not forget that the vaunted 1911 was manufactured in .45 caliber because Army officials believed this caliber, the one for which their Peacemakers had been chambered, was adequate for personal defense. Although the .45acp was a different cartridge from the .45 (long) Colt, it demonstrates the lingering influence of the Peacemaker.

Now, think about my tenth choice.


Timthinker

[falnovice]

Remington1860 Army
Smith&Wesson Russian
Luger
Colt .45
Browning High Power
CZ75
Walther P38
Mak
SIG 226
Beretta 92

I can't include Glock though I do think it is a very significant developement it really has not seen that much military use compared to the others.
Also, it is good to see the Browning High Power has made better than half of the lists here. If my memory serves me the BHP was adopted by something like 60 countries and it is still the most widely adopted pistol today. Allies in the war on terror are carrying them in the sandbox to this day. When it comes to single action 9mm's, it is the one to beat.

[Timthinker]

What is the tenth handgun on my list? Well, I decided that this list would seem incomplete without a good American double-action revolver that distinguished itself in war and peace. To me, one revolver seems to epitimize this description: the Smith & Wesson Military and Police model. Why?

As its name implies, this revolver has seen military service around the world. During World War II, Smith & Wesson changed the name of the M & P to the Victory model, and it served with all the Western Allied forces. The M & P continued to serve with various militaries after the war as well. But the story does not end here.

In the post-war years, the M & P became a widespread sidearm for many police departments in the United States and Western Europe. Although its twilight has long passed in this role, Smith & Wesson continues to produce it for civilian usage. No doubt, some of our readers own one as a self-defense firearm today. Such a long, distinguished service record makes it worthy of inclusion onto this list.


Timthinker

[MachIVshooter]

1) Colt cap and ball revolvers (Walker, 1849 pocket, 1851 navy, 1860 Army, etc).
2) The Adams and Tranter revolvers of the later 1800's. These were double action revolvers and were superior to the SAA Colts of the day. They do not live on, but they were better, more usable pistols than the Colts.
3) Smith & Wesson Top Break Double-action revolvers. Not only were they double action with quick reload/ejection, they were copied by almost every other revolver-maker of the day. They were compact, reasonably powerful, and reliable.
4) Smith & Wesson Model 10 revolver - Best revolver of its day, the design lasting on in evolved for to today. Almost every revolver made today is an evolution of this design.
5) Webley Mk VI - the greatest Webley and the most rugged combat pistol in WWI - and it sometimes came with a bayonet.
6) Colt New Service - Father of the 1917 and originator of all other Colt designs that followed. Has one of the best triggers I have ever encountered.
7) Colt 1911 - First truly successful automatic. Yeah, the C96 really deserves this, but the 1911 was the grandfather of all automatics today save for the Beretta 92.
8) Browning Hi-power/Walther P-38, one introduced hi-capacity, the other double action in a full-size service auto, both well-made and reliable.
9) Beretta 92/CZ-75 - Both introduced the same year, more or less, and both represent the zenith of the Wonder Nine. Both are highly sought-after and well-respected. Both adopted by a wide range of militaries across the world.
10) Glock 17 - I can't stand Glocks, don't like them at all, but certainly the Glock 17 (all other Glocks are just variations of the same theme) is one of the 10 greatest handguns of all time.

I'm going to have to agree, save # 2. I would put the Colt 1873 in that position, since it put a cartridge-fring revolver in soldiers hands. Plenty of other good designs, and some that preceed the cap and ball revolvers. However, sidearms really didn't have a practical combat application prior to percussion revolvers, and since this is "military handguns", that must be considered.

[buttrap]

I bet you get out of the US and ask the same question you will get a lot differant list than some here. As far as most armys think all a 1911 is good for is a wheel chock. 1800s cartriage guns I would put both the Adams and Smith No-3 well ahead of the Colt SAA just to sales and the number of nations that used them. I would probably put the BHP above the 1911 for the 20th century too as that was in use by about 100 more armys than the 1911.

[Barr]

In no certain order and my opinion only:

SW 686 - an affordable evolution of the magnum revolver
Browning HP
Colt 1911 and variants thereof
SW 10
Luger
Webley Revolver
Colt Peacemaker
Beretta 92F
Colt 1903
CZ 75

[dstorm1911]

Liko81, the .44 magnum was the brain child of Elmer keith in 1955 therefore never saw any use in the 19th century at all ;) the .45 colt came about as a result of bore diameter as the .44 C&B revolvers use a groove diameter of .451 allowing older C&B colts to be converted to cartridge use, the .44 special and .44 magnum actually use a bullet diam. of .429" and has zero interchangeability with the original .44 cap and ball as mentioned a diam. of .451

The .45 ACP was created as a result of the .38 colt cartridges anemic 750 fps bein inefficient at stopping drugged Morro gurillas in the Philippines John Browning originally was going to submit his autoloading pistol for the trials the model 1900 in .38 cal when the military decided they needed a .45 cal to stop the drugged hords so he updated the 1900 to the 1905 pattern in .45 ACP after yet more refinments it ended up being the M 1911 when finally adopted....... I'm tired so very likally have missed some points as my brain is numb but thats the basic chronology

Can't believe not one person hit on the Jap Nambu type 14, especially as hundreds of thousands of em were brought back to the states as trophies of war, the Chinese captured tens of thousands of them and re-issued them to their own troops who were deeply embroiled in fighting the Japanese during WWII a very comfortable gun to shoot even if the bottle neck 8 mm was a lil enemic

Otherwise I would have to say "Blind justice" has pretty much covered it, And since I'm too tired to type much more........ I would replace the 1851 however with the last cap and ball colt made.... the 1861 Navy, it perfected the colt C&B by integrating the best features of the 1851 Navy and the new innovations and refinments of the 1860 Army into one sidearm,

As far as the "CZXXX or something" that would be the CZ 52 followed by the CZ 82 which still serves with the Czechs right up till this day the CZ82 took all the features of the Makrov then tossed em out the window in favor of a much better FCG, better sight, better frame western style ambi mag release..... they did retain the slide and the take down via trigger guard though....

O.K need sleep my eyes aren't focusing :)