Dismayed Americans contemplate Canada


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Diesle
July 20, 2003, 01:05 AM
Ref: http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/Northeast/07/19/considering.canada.ap/index.html


I cant find the words.... but when I do I think they'll sound something like 'dont let the door hit ya where the good lord split ya...'

Diesle


NEW YORK (AP) -- For all they share economically and culturally, Canada and the United States are increasingly at odds on basic social policies -- to the point that at least a few discontented Americans are planning to move north and try their neighbors' way of life.

A husband and wife in Minnesota, a college student in Georgia, a young executive in New York. Though each has distinct motives for packing up, they agree the United States is growing too conservative and believe Canada offers a more inclusive, less selfish society.

"For me, it's a no-brainer," said Mollie Ingebrand, a puppeteer from Minneapolis who plans to go to Vancouver with her lawyer husband and 2-year-old son.

"It's the most amazing opportunity I can imagine. To live in a society where there are different priorities in caring for your fellow citizens."

For decades, even while nurturing close ties with the United States, Canadians have often chosen a different path -- establishing universal health care, maintaining ties with Cuba, imposing tough gun control laws. Two current Canadian initiatives, to decriminalize marijuana and legalize same-sex marriage, have pleased many liberals in the United States and irked conservatives.

New York executive Daniel Hanley, 31, was arranging a move for himself and his partner, Tony, long before the Canadian announcement about same-sex marriage. But the timing delights him; he and Tony now hope to marry in front of their families after they emigrate to British Columbia.

"Canada has an opportunity to define itself as a leader," Hanley said. "In some ways, it's now closer to American ideals than America is."

Though many gay American couples are now marrying in Canada, virtually all return home, hoping court rulings will lead to official recognition of their unions.

Hanley's situation is different because Tony -- a Southeast Asian -- is not a U.S. citizen. The men worried that Tony could be forced to leave the United States after his student visa expires in two years: They were elated when Canada's immigration agency said they could move there as partners.

Hanley, who works for a Fortune 500 company in Manhattan, doesn't know how the move will affect his career.

"It's a challenge, it's scary," he said. "We'll have to drop everything we know here, go up there and figure it out."

Thomas Hodges, a computer systems major at Georgia State University, said his dismay with American politics started him thinking last year about going abroad. He recently wrote an article in a campus journal titled, "Why I Am Moving To Canada."

"I'm thinking about Toronto, though I hear it's cold up there," Hodges, a lifelong Southerner, said in a telephone interview.

Hodges, 21, complained about a "neo-conservative shift" in the United States and praised Canada's approach to health care and education.

"The U.S. educational system is unfair -- you have to live in certain areas to go to good schools," he said.

Rene Mercier, spokesman for Canada's immigration department, said any upsurge in U.S.-to-Canada immigration based on current political developments won't be detectable for a few years, because of the time required to process residency applications.

During the Vietnam War, U.S. emigration to Canada surged as thousands of young men, often accompanied by wives or girlfriends, moved to avoid the draft. But every year since 1977, more Canadians have emigrated to the United States than vice versa -- the 2001 figures were 5,894 Americans moving north, 30,203 Canadians moving south.

Mollie Ingebrand, 34, said she has felt an affinity for Canada for many years, fueled partly by respect for its health care system. Her doubts about the United States go back even further, to a childhood spent with liberal parents in a relatively conservative part of Ohio.

"In school I was always told this is the best country on earth, and everyone else wants to be American, and that never really rang true to me," she said. "As I got older, it occurred to me there were other choices."

Her husband, George, 44, has spent little time in Canada, but said it seems to offer a more relaxed, less competitive way of life. He has no qualms about leaving his law practice and selling the family's upscale home in Minneapolis.

"I don't idealize Canada the way my wife does, but I'm ready for an adventure," he said. "I don't know what I'm going to be facing. That's what I'm reveling in."

The Ingebrands have completed the first batch of paperwork to apply for Canadian residency, hoping their talents and finances compensate for lack of specific job offers. As Minnesotans, they look forward to Vancouver's wet but mild climate: "Green all year, no mosquitos," Mollie said.

At Georgia State, Hodges said some conservative schoolmates have challenged his proposed move to Canada, saying he would be abandoning his homeland.

Conversely, Mollie Ingebrand says some of her friends -- people who share her left-of-center views -- argue that she should stay at home to battle for changes here.

"I've been there and done that," Molly said. "I don't want to stay and fight anymore. I can have that bittersweet love for my country from somewhere else."

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Wildalaska
July 20, 2003, 01:12 AM
Bye bye

WildgoodriddanceAlaska

Waitone
July 20, 2003, 01:16 AM
Wait until President Hillary ascends to the throne. I

t won't be bed-wetting liberals heading north.

Lone_Gunman
July 20, 2003, 01:32 AM
Well personally, I am glad these people are willing to take a stand and move to Canada. Good for them, good for us.

I thought Alec Baldwin had promised to move out of the country if Bush won the 2000 election... too bad he didnt have the conviction of the liberals mentioned in the article.

c_yeager
July 20, 2003, 04:22 AM
I wonder if these folks have considered why so many Canadians make the exact same decision and decide to come here instead. It always strikes me as odd that people living in a nation that is the destination for so many imigrants both legal and otherwise would feel that things would be better somewhere else. To them i say, good riddance.

Jeff
July 20, 2003, 04:22 AM
Indeed, good riddance.

If they truly seek a Socialist agenda in their hearts, then they have done the right thing, having moved to a country that has pandered more effectively to that agenda, instead of staying in this country and trying to change it into something it has never been and something it should never be. Because to do so, would be completely antithetical to what the US traditionally stands for, and to what has become the mighty power it is today.

Like the Gunman said, good for them, good for us. I hope they all make the switch. Wouldn't that be nice?

HBK
July 20, 2003, 04:33 AM
Let them all get the hell out and stay out. If Queen Hillary ascends, I'll hole up somewhere in the US. I'm hoping that never happens.

Boats
July 20, 2003, 06:16 AM
A disparity of 5-to-1 entry versus exit might give people a clue which country is more popular. Oh wait, my bad, I forgot liberals are clueless.

MicroBalrog
July 20, 2003, 06:44 AM
Now that these guys are going out, can I come in?

tyme
July 20, 2003, 06:52 AM
Bowling for Columbine has convinced me that the Problem With America is the media.

stevelyn
July 20, 2003, 08:00 AM
Good Riddance to bad rubbish.

Happiness is 10,000 American socialists leaving the U.S. headed to Canada with a socialist under each arm.

I think it's a fair trade, we get 1 Peter Jennings and get rid 6 just like him. Do the math. :evil:













:evil: :evil: :evil: :D

seeker_two
July 20, 2003, 08:49 AM
For all they share economically and culturally, Canada and the United States are increasingly at odds on basic social policies -- to the point that at least a few discontented Americans are planning to move north and try their neighbors' way of life.

And this is a bad thing HOW?...:scrutiny:

tiberius
July 20, 2003, 09:43 AM
Good ridance.

As Bob Barker would say....."Microbalrog, come on down!"

Ol' Badger
July 20, 2003, 10:06 AM
Let's see. Leave my view of the Blue Ridge Mts. for a country with a crappy Health Care system. Leave here where the greedy hand only takes 1/3 of my Pay Check for a place that takes more and give up my guns. Nope. See ya, wouldn't want to be ya. Plue I'd miss the sound of the Cicada's in the summer. Love that noise!

TallPine
July 20, 2003, 10:16 AM
a puppeteer from Minneapolis

that explains everything ... :D

greyhound
July 20, 2003, 10:38 AM
Oh and by the way, make it so they can't come back:D

And yep, as someone who knows a few puppeteers, it does explain a lot.

Only thing that bothers me is where the woman says that Canada more truly expresses American values than America. Maybe the type of American values that have sprung up since the 1960's, but sure as HELL not traditional values.

Hypnogator
July 20, 2003, 11:28 AM
When they leave, the average IQ of both countries will go up! :D

matis
July 20, 2003, 11:31 AM
I was born in Montreal, Canada and became a US citizen in '68.

Best move I ever made.

My father was a socialst so until my late twenties so, I thought, was I. He told me the US was a fascist country.

I came, anyway, 'cause wages here were higher and cars were cheaper. :D


In Canada I was taught that the Americans were wrong in the war of 1812.

I attended college here, so I learned that it was the other way round. I never believed either -- thought it was all propaganda.

Although I still think a healthy skepticism is important, that attitude (and of course my socialism) did retard me in discovering what this country really is.

As for my father, I don't blame him for his views -- I understand why he believed that way. but that's a long and different story.

It wasn't until I began working for myself here that I realized what the US really was.


I never could identify with Canadian history. Probably partly because when I was growing up, antisemitism was more overt there and I experienced my share of it. So I saw no place for me in their scheme of things. I didn't want to be one of them.

Neither was there was any romance in Canadian history for me.

American history, oh the other hand, is glorious. Even though I was supposed to hate individualism and capitalism, I couldn't help feeling the attraction. And this is much more a country of immigrants and I just couldn't help identifying with the American story. There's psychological room here for everyone, so long as they realize the opportunity they've found.


The sad part is that as I was discovering freedom and liberty, my adopted country was losing it.

So now I find myself on the right as the country speeds left.


Which brings me back to the a###les moving to Canada.


Socialism must either collapse, as did the Soviet Union, or it limps along with great PR but a dismal standard of living and no freedom.

If the tide of socialsim is to be reversed, it will happen here. Canada is a welfare case and will crash a lot sooner.


So, I say let them go to Canada. They can enjoy the "free" medical care until they REALLY need serious treatment. Then they can cross the border to save their sorry a**es here. What a deal, eh?

And much as taxes are too high here, if you really want high taxes, try Canada.


In fact we should start an organization that promotes Canada for American left-wingers -- I'd even contribute some $$ to fund their move.

And we oughta start an equivalent organization in Canada for Canadians fed up with socialism -- to encourage and assist them in coming here.

G-d knows we badly need more people with their heads up in the sunshine instead of crammed into that other place where it don't ever shine.



Maybe we could start a two-way avalanche!




Matis

SDC
July 20, 2003, 11:32 AM
What I'D like to see is some sort of "prisoner-exchange program", where your liberals can move up here and accellerate this country's rapid swirl down the drain, and people like me can move to a country where citizens have rights and responsibilities, and aren't treated like mindless 2-year olds. Once upon a time, I was PROUD to be Canadian, but I can't say that anymore. :(

El Tejon
July 20, 2003, 11:38 AM
Note to sandal-wearers in the middle of their journey leaving for Kanada: Do not forget to renounce your U.S. citizenship!:D

matis
July 20, 2003, 11:56 AM
SDC said:

What I'D like to see is some sort of "prisoner-exchange program", where your liberals can move up here and accellerate this country's rapid swirl down the drain,
_______________________________________________________



That's the idea (!) SDC. Come on down, the water here is fine!



Matis

Harold Mayo
July 20, 2003, 01:45 PM
This from the Associated Press (italicized comments by me):

NEW YORK (July 19) - For all they share economically and culturally, Canada and the United States are increasingly at odds on basic social policies - to the point that at least a few discontented Americans are planning to move north and try their neighbors' way of life.

Love it or leave it...but if you leave, don't come back.

A husband and wife in Minnesota, a college student in Georgia, a young executive in New York. Though each has distinct motives for packing up, they agree the United States is growing too conservative and believe Canada offers a more inclusive, less selfish society.

ONE term of a pseudo-conservative government and the US is becoming "too conservative"? My personal belief is that the US is WAY too liberal. "...Canada offers a more inclusive, less selfish society"...? Ah...in Canada, human nature is different. Crossing the border changes the basic make-up of humanity and people begin to give freely. Ah...

``For me, it's a no-brainer,'' said Mollie Ingebrand, a puppeteer from Minneapolis who plans to go to Vancouver with her lawyer husband and 2-year-old son.

It's gotta be, Mollie. Otherwise you probably couldn't have figured it out. A puppeteer...?? Perfect profession for a Democrat.

``It's the most amazing opportunity I can imagine. To live in a society where there are different priorities in caring for your fellow citizens.''

Canada=Utopia. Again...I'm so very sure that human nature changes north of the border.

For decades, even while nurturing close ties with the United States, Canadians have often chosen a different path - establishing universal health care, maintaining ties with Cuba, imposing tough gun control laws. Two current Canadian initiatives, to decriminalize marijuana and legalize same-sex marriage, have pleased many liberals in the United States and irked conservatives.

Universal health care=mediocre health care, maintaining ties with Cuba=agreeing with socialist doctrine, imposing tough gun control laws=making subjects out of citizens. The marijuana and same-sex marriage stuff...ah, well, let people do what they please behind closed doors.

New York executive Daniel Hanley, 31, was arranging a move for himself and his partner, Tony, long before the Canadian announcement about same-sex marriage. But the timing delights him; he and Tony now hope to marry in front of their families after they emigrate to British Columbia.

"...Daniel...and his partner, Tony"...ah, I see...

``Canada has an opportunity to define itself as a leader,'' Hanley said. ``In some ways, it's now closer to American ideals than America is.''

B.S.!!!! Daniel, you have no clue.

Though many gay American couples are now marrying in Canada, virtually all return home, hoping court rulings will lead to official recognition of their unions.

Hanley's situation is different because Tony - a Southeast Asian - is not a U.S. citizen. The men worried that Tony could be forced to leave the United States after his student visa expires in two years: They were elated when Canada's immigration agency said they could move there as partners.

Hanley, who works for a Fortune 500 company in Manhattan, doesn't know how the move will affect his career.

``It's a challenge, it's scary,'' he said. ``We'll have to drop everything we know here, go up there and figure it out.''

Thomas Hodges, a computer systems major at Georgia State University, said his dismay with American politics started him thinking last year about going abroad. He recently wrote an article in a campus journal titled, ``Why I Am Moving To Canada.''

``I'm thinking about Toronto, though I hear it's cold up there,'' Hodges, a lifelong Southerner, said in a telephone interview.

Hodges, 21, complained about a ``neo-conservative shift'' in the United States and praised Canada's approach to health care and education.

Guys (well, I use that term loosely with some of them), get a clue. Canada does well only because they have VAST resources and a small population. They can waste a lot and still have plenty for everyone.

``The U.S. educational system is unfair - you have to live in certain areas to go to good schools,'' he said.

Hmmm..."unfair"? Ever heard the expression that "life is unfair"? Crybaby.

Rene Mercier, spokesman for Canada's immigration department, said any upsurge in U.S.-to-Canada immigration based on current political developments won't be detectable for a few years, because of the time required to process residency applications.

During the Vietnam War, U.S. emigration to Canada surged as thousands of young men, often accompanied by wives or girlfriends, moved to avoid the draft. But every year since 1977, more Canadians have emigrated to the United States than vice versa - the 2001 figures were 5,894 Americans moving north, 30,203 Canadians moving south.

Draft-dodgers. Humph! More Canadians to the US than vice versa? Rats off of a sinking ship?

Mollie Ingebrand, 34, said she has felt an affinity for Canada for many years, fueled partly by respect for its health care system. Her doubts about the United States go back even further, to a childhood spent with liberal parents in a relatively conservative part of Ohio.

Ahh...messed up childhood. We can blame the parents for her choices in life, then.

``In school I was always told this is the best country on earth, and everyone else wants to be American, and that never really rang true to me,'' she said. ``As I got older, it occurred to me there were other choices.''

There ARE other choices, Mollie. You're making a horrible one. Now go away.

Her husband, George, 44, has spent little time in Canada, but said it seems to offer a more relaxed, less competitive way of life. He has no qualms about leaving his law practice and selling the family's upscale home in Minneapolis.

I'm all for more relaxed and less competitive...but I don't have any illusions of what is best. You always pay a price.

``I don't idealize Canada the way my wife does, but I'm ready for an adventure,'' he said. ``I don't know what I'm going to be facing. That's what I'm reveling in.''

The Ingebrands have completed the first batch of paperwork to apply for Canadian residency, hoping their talents and finances compensate for lack of specific job offers. As Minnesotans, they look forward to Vancouver's wet but mild climate: ``Green all year, no mosquitos,'' Mollie said.

At Georgia State, Hodges said some conservative schoolmates have challenged his proposed move to Canada, saying he would be abandoning his homeland.

..and he is..

Conversely, Mollie Ingebrand says some of her friends - people who share her left-of-center views - argue that she should stay at home to battle for changes here.

Nah...go on up there. One less liberal to deal with....

``I've been there and done that,'' Molly said. ``I don't want to stay and fight anymore. I can have that bittersweet love for my country from somewhere else.''

Uh...it's not "your" country when you choose to leave it because it doesn't suit you.

:cuss: :rolleyes: :banghead:

Zundfolge
July 20, 2003, 01:51 PM
I don't see why you're not dancing in the streets after reading this one.


let the socialist idiots move to Canada ... once they renounce their citizenship, even if they move back here they can't vote and they can't vote while they are gone. :neener:

SoCalGeek
July 20, 2003, 02:04 PM
I don't know what these people are smoking, but canada isn't that much better off than the US. They need to actually go to canada and see what it's like instead of just going by what they hear. Oh well, like Zundfolge said... :D

4v50 Gary
July 20, 2003, 02:09 PM
I enjoyed the commentary of Howard Mayo. It's an old saying, but it's still relevant: Don't let the door hit you on the way out!

TallPine
July 20, 2003, 02:16 PM
Such a shame, though, because Canada is such a beautiful country.

El Tejon
July 20, 2003, 02:33 PM
Tall, so is Mugabestan or **********.:(

TheeBadOne
July 20, 2003, 02:34 PM
I'll bet none of them are gun owners, and if they are, they're in for a big suprise. :D

Old Fuff
July 20, 2003, 02:51 PM
If these left-wing liberal/socialists want to move I think we should all chip in for one-way bus tickets.

Could it be that they don't think the present conservative tilt isn't going to change soon? If so, I hope they're right - it will be a first ....

SADshooter
July 20, 2003, 04:27 PM
Buh-Bye.

HankB
July 20, 2003, 04:40 PM
Will someone PLEASE forward this to Alec Baldwin? :p

Sylvilagus Aquaticus
July 20, 2003, 05:21 PM
as far as their world-leading healthcare system, Texas is full of good Canuck doctors who have immigrated since the 80's.

Supporting Universal Healthcare by migration, I susppose?

Regards,
Rabbit.

Standing Wolf
July 20, 2003, 05:48 PM
I'm sure they'll be missed for small fractions of a nanosecond.

Monkeyleg
July 20, 2003, 06:59 PM
I wonder how many of them will move to cities close to the US border, so that they can drive over on Friday nights for affordable gas, milk, and booze? The bridge between Sault St. Marie, Ontario and Sault St. Marie, MI is not someplace you want to be on Friday evenings.

Mike Irwin
July 20, 2003, 08:57 PM
"they agree the United States is growing too conservative"

Faster, Pussycat!

longeyes
July 20, 2003, 09:44 PM
They might become a tad disenchanted when they find out there are
waiting lists for that superduper health care, a shortage of good jobs,
and you need to ante up a ton of fazools to become a citizen.

LawDog
July 20, 2003, 10:22 PM
Duplicate threads merged.

LawDog

444
July 21, 2003, 01:05 AM
Words cannot express how I wish this idea would catch on. But, I know better.

GSB
July 21, 2003, 09:39 AM
Words cannot express how I wish this idea would catch on.

That would especially benefit you -- get rid of all the Kali liberals who are slowly turning the great state of Nevada into ********** East.

Sean Smith
July 21, 2003, 10:24 AM
I feel bad for Canada. What did Canadians do to deserve our soft-headed leftists? Now, if they moved to France...

:evil:

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