so if I want a coach gun NOT for CAS...

[craig_o]

...what "should" I buy?

[Deer Hunter]

Stoeger coach gun. Best bang for the buck.

[MAX100]

If you want one with working exposed hammers the TTN 1878 coach is the best out there. The hammers are close in for quick dual hammer cocking. They come with the reduced power hammer springs already installed. Nice stock, fit and finish. They are highly regarded in the Cowboy world. Many of the top champions use them.

I know you don't want one for CAS but visit the SSAS CAS websites. They know their guns well and you will get a good insight on the best coach gun for you.


GC

[Deer Hunter]

Forgot to mention, the Stoeger has internal hammers. It breaks down compactly and I've hauled the whole thing around in a backpack before.

[News Shooter]

Both of those are great suggestions. The Stoeger for carry and use and the TTN for CASS.

But, if you want pure, magical gun beauty this is it:

http://www.cz-usa.com/product_detail.php?id=77

As stated before, it's not as good for CAS because the hammers are too far apart, but damn it is beautiful.

[MCgunner]

Picked up and have been hunting with a Remington Spartan (aka Baikal) SPR220 and I really like it. I specifically wanted choke tubes (came with cylinder to full, 4 chokes) and it is very compact once broken down. I can travel on my Goldwing with it locked in the bags. I gave $299 for it and it's a very rugged little gun and shoots straight. It patterns will with all chokes.

[BobbyQuickdraw]

All of the Stoeger coach guns are CAS legal, including the Coach Gun Supreme. The requirement for CAS is basically made in the style of the time period, and hammerless shotguns were there. They even allow pump shotguns, but you can only load 2 shells at a time.

I'm very interested in getting a Stoeger. I want the Stoeger Coach Gun Supreme in 12gauge. Anyone experienced with that model? It has screw in chokes, nicer wood, and a bigger recoil pad - main differences from the other coaches. Costs about $400 in store.

Any more thoughts on Stoeger?

[Ashaq]

I went to the gun store today pricing shotguns. Wasn't looking for them at all but a rack of Stoegers caught my eye, and I think I may have to change up what kind of shotgun I am looking for. I'd primarily be using it for home defense but also for fun range shooting, such nice looking guns too.

[Burt Blade]

My Stoeger 20" coach gun has held up for over eight years and thousands of rounds. They can be a bit stiff right out of the box, but they are durable, reliable, and they shoot very well.

[Roswell 1847]

Does anyone make a double whose barrels will work on an antique Remington Double barrel action?
Maybe a Remington replica.
A lady I know has an old Remington hammer gun with one split barrel and the other too badly pitted to be used. The rest of the gun is in excellent mechanical condition.

[Deer Hunter]

Burt, my stoeger was a bit stiff out of the box too. That is, until I took a dremel to certain areas. Now it's extremely, a bit moreso than my mother's citori.

[KevininPa]

........on the Spartan. Mine was pricey due to the exposed hammers (about $425 out the door), but the boxlocks can go for as little as $279. They usually come with changeable chokes. It's a Com-Bloc firearm so you know it's built for abuse. All of the Com-Blocs are. Very stout and made for abuse in the woods, thats why I got it. The Spartans are the Russian Baikals but with a Remington warranty. I had a Limbsaver put on mine as I've stated in your other thread. My gunsmith was very impressed with it. His words were " simple and heavily built". Nothing should go wrong and if it might, shouldn't take much to repair. And they really are prettier than one would be led to believe online. I had a white spacer installed on mine with the Limbsaver due to it's looks. There's some minor engraving and the wood in the stocks are really extraordinary. If I were you I would at least check into them. You won't appreciate them until you hold one, like I did. And I have compared them to the Stoegers in one of the shops that I like to frequent and prefered it. Just my humble opinion.

[SASS#23149]

If money were no object,the CZ would go home with me.I held one and looked it over last year,and it sure is nice.
My Stoeger gets me by,but that CZ was so much more gun.!

[Mat, not doormat]

I use the stoeger coach gun supreme, in sass. They aren't the most durable guns ever made, but they are pretty nice. My last one lasted three years, shooting 4-8 matches a month, plus a lot of fairly intense practice. I eventually broke a little piece off the forward lug. It served pretty well for quite a while. I just ordered another one.

They lend themselves to a few fairly easy mods to make them really nice handling guns.

~~~Mat

[MCgunner]

I had a white spacer installed on mine with the Limbsaver due to it's looks. There's some minor engraving and the wood in the stocks are really extraordinary.

Kevin, my wood is quite ordinary. LOL! Varies from gun to gun of course. But, tough is the word for this thing. Mine has the nickel frame. Now, many would prefer steel or color case hardening, but I got mired in the muck in a pothole teal hunting in September and had to swim out. The gun got soaked with brackish water and covered in mud. On the way back to the truck I could see rust forming on the barrel. Fortunately, I had cleaning stuff in the van and nipped it in the bud right there. It fared a helluva lot better than my cell phone did, can tell ya that. :rolleyes: The only way to get the mud and muck out of the checkering and off the stock was with WD. I don't usually like to do that, but you know, oiling that stock brought out some grain in the wood it didn't have before and darkened the checkered areas. It looks a lot better now, LOL!

Yeah, I HAVE to have rugged working guns and I think Remington named it "Spartan" for a reason. It ain't dolled up, but it'll be here when others break. And, after owning it for a while, it ain't that plain. It ain't that pretty, but it ain't that ugly either. And, that nickeled frame? It never once even TRIED to rust even when I was watching the rust form on the barrel. This gun is going to see a lot of rough use and I think it can handle it about as well as any blued/wood shotgun could. I mean, it's not stainless/polymer, but it works in an old school sorta way. Neatest thing is how small it gets in a saddle bag or back pack. :D

[KevininPa]

" Neatest thing is how small it gets in a saddle bag or back pack. "


They do break down small. I also had my 'smith put detachable sling swivels on mine for the woods. Still gotta pick up a nice leather sling. I got lucky with mine on the wood. Has a good grain to it. I'm interested in that slug combo idea you have, which choke tube do you have for that slug barrel? Open cylinder, I'm guessing?

[MCgunner]

I put the cylinder bore in the left barrel for the rear trigger. Front trigger is for small game, mod choked is my thinking after doing some patterning and duck/dove hunting with it. It'd reach out there on squirrels well enough. IC would be better for rabbits, I reckon, but I have killed a lot of rabbits with a full choked .410.

I contacted a smith about the swivels, too. Great to have swivel studs on a gun for waterfowling. Up til now, I've been using a slide on deal, but just for carrying. It would get in the way shooting it. But, I always remove the sling before shooting ducks, can catch on marsh grass, reeds, and stuff. Would be handier in the woods, for sure, with swivel studs and I'll get that done I think. I installed my own on my Rossi 92 carbine (barrel band comes off), but I'm a little scared to drill into that barrel rib, LOL.

With slugs, the right barrel shoots a little left and the left barrel shoots a little right at 50 yards due to the barrel regulation, but it's easy to correct for. It sort of limits your yardage, but I plan to do some more experimentation on sight picture with it, maybe get 75 yards out of it if I can. 50 yards can do the job, though, especially on hogs which you usually run into up close. Just adds to the versatility of the gun as a general woods gun.

If you're camping, it'd be good to carry for bear protection, too, slug in one barrel, 00 in the other, though mine is in 20 gauge.

[Hank Dodge]

I've had a Stoeger over ten years now. I bought it for CAS shooting originally. It was a bit stiff when new, but it lightened up a bit with some use. I like the way it breaks down small for travel and that it is very reliable. One heck of a shotgun for the price. I'd highly recommend one.


Hank

[Eightball]

Just out of curiosity, and not to hijack the thread....but what coach guns have screw-in chokes nowadays? That's about the only reason I've not ordered one, myself.

[KevininPa]

As you've read here the Spartans do. I use mine for clays and small game. My gunsmith said it should work alright for some range work because of the choke tubes and the fact that the barrel was long enough to burn up all the powder. So I went out and checked my patterns and son of a gun if it didn't do half bad!

[KevininPa]

My gunsmith said that that rib has plenty of meat for mounting that stud. He was really impressed with how sturdy the Spartans were made.

[MCgunner]

Cool, I'll get that done after hunting seasons are over. :D

Yeah, my 20 gauge patterns VERY tight, about 90 percent 30" patterns at a full 40 yards with AA 7.5s. It's so tight with full choke, I prefer dove hunting with IC unless it's WAY out there. I choked IC/Full for dove hunting and think I might do better with IC/mod, frankly. On teal and ducks, only the IC and cylinder chokes that come with the gun are steel certified (others can be ordered, though). I choked cyl/IC and the IC with steel 3" is good for 35 yards over decoys, about perfect for teal. During the regular season, I tend to prefer my 12 gauge guns anyway, but over deeks and on teal, it works well. With the full choke, it'll reach out there for a squirrel about as far as I'd shoot at one with a .22 rifle.

Someone on one of these threads said the regular Stoeger comes fixed cylinder bore, but you can get an upgraded one with good wood and choke tubes. The standard Spartan comes with choke tubes and I bought mine specifically as a travel/bird hunting gun. I can get there on my motorcycle and hunt, good thing when the van gets 14 mpg. :rolleyes:

[Eightball]

So, the Spartan and Stoeger are the only ones? I've been unimpressed with the quality of their firearms that have come through my store, but am still holding out for a coach gun at some point in my future.

[MCgunner]

Hmm, well, you could always pick up a Winchester M21 and cut the barrels off, I guess. :rolleyes:

[Markbo]

When I think "Coach Gun" I automatically think of a hammer gun. No hammers.... no coach gun. Just a short double barrel shotgun.

That CZ is nice. It's also $900! I just picked up this little EMF Hartford for about 1/2 that:

http://www.svt-enthusiast.com/albums/Marks-Guns/EMF4.jpg

http://www.svt-enthusiast.com/albums/Marks-Guns/EMF1.jpg

Hammers angled for twin cocking. If you have to have one with a safety, this one is pretty unobtrusive AND it allows for 'cocked and locked' carry - not a bad thing for a short range brush hunt.

And have you ever seem prettier CCH and wood grain on a $500 gun in your life?

[BobbyQuickdraw]

Does anyone here have or have used an EAA Bounty Hunter (Baikal) SxS Coach? How are they? Chokes? Can be smithed to accept chokes?

I'm having trouble getting info on them because I'm at work and tons of sites are blocked for me.

I want a coach gun with 20" barrel, 12 gauge. I was considering the Stoeger Coach Gun Supreme (MSRP: $430). Downsides are every now and then there are conflicting reviews from "Great and durable" to just the opposite. Also, no external hammers. On the upside it looks beautiful and comes with an extended recoil pad already on it.

I've recently read about the EAA gun that has working external hammers and is MRP around $400. Any thoughts on this?

[Markbo]

If I remember correctly the EAA Bounty Hunter has not been made (imported from Baikal) for several years. You should be able to find one on the auction sites though.

While I have not had one of those, I have a couple of other Baikals and they are fine, fine shotguns.

[MAKster]

Does any one know if the external hammers on the Spartan are truely functioning. I read that on some of the external hammer guns the hammers are really for show and they actually cock internal hammers.

[MCgunner]

Markbo, was hopin' you'd post that gun on this thread. It's real purdy and I love the tang safety AND hammers concept.:D

[KevininPa]

Markbo:

That is one good-looking firearm. Do those come with choke tubes?

MAKster:

The hammers on mine are fully functional. That's why I bought it. I can leave it in the closet loaded and not be worried about cocked hammers such as a boxlock.

BobbyQuickdraw:

As someone else said, Baikal no longer imports under their own name. Now they come in under Remingtons name as Spartans. Yes the same ones you see mentioned here. Most come with choke tubes and you can get them with or without working external hammers. The ones without are much less expensive. They even have Baikal printed on the firearm. If you want a used one or old stock you might find a deal on Gunroker. Though when I searched for mine, the used prices at the time weren't much cheaper than new. That's why I got the new Remington instead.

[Markbo]

Kevin it does not come with tubes. I will test both barrels with bird shot when I get a chance and report.

[auschip]

I think Santa is bringing me a Stoeger SxS with an extra set of barrels. 20 and 28 should round out my scatter guns nicely.

[craig_o]

is there anything inherently bad about having your boxlock cocked and locked for extended periods of time? any moreso than, say, your 1911?

[KevininPa]

Honestly craig o, I don't know. I don't have a 1911, but I do have a CZ83 which carries locked and cocked. But since it's DA/SA I don't bother with that. I think I would trust the lock on my CZ more than the safety on my Western double barrel though. It has internal hammers. Personally, I don't want to keep my hammer springs compressed all the time. Maybe someone with a hammerless coach can step up to the plate on this one.

[MCgunner]

My old Sarasqueta 12 gauge side by side double has been cocked (unloaded) for 36 years and never fails to fire. It doesn't hurt the guns/springs or anything to remain cocked and I don't wanna dry fire it just to unload the springs. Could keep snap caps in it, but don't see the need.

I keep my box lock Spartan loaded "cocked and locked" in the bedroom in such a position as to keep the barrels away from the room and easy to grab. I don't see a safety problem in this. I don't really want a hammer gun in the field, sorta weird, sorta slow, prefer the box lock for hunting and it does double duty. Keeping a hammer gun loaded and hammers down makes some folks more secure in the fact that it isn't going to go off, but if it fell on a hammer hard enough, it could break what ever keeps the hammer rebounded off the firing pin and go off. It's happened, so even hammer guns aren't THAT safe with the hammers down. It's an individual thing way I see it. Whatever system you are happiest with. If you like the classic style of the hammer gun, I really don't see a negative except that it's slower to make ready when a bird comes in over the tall reeds or flushes or a rabbit jumps or whatever.

But, I have to have chokes for field use. A cylinder bore fixed coach gun can do slug duty, but it's sorta worthless for hunting. Choke tubes make the gun a viable field gun, shoot just as tight as a 28" gun and very quick to point and easy to tote in the woods, far more effective as a survival tool than your average sidearm. There's lots to like about a coach gun with choke tubes, so many uses beyond CAS or home defense IMHO.

There was a time when I was broke, a student working a summer job and lived on a ranch rent free, sort of a long story, but we were counting this guy's cotton insects and he offered one of his shacks. No AC, but hot water and a bath tub and a place to put a mattress. Also had a stove and refrigerator and at 2.23 an hour, I couldn't argue with no rent. I turned out to be the only one that wanted to stay there, city boys all stayed in town and paid rent. This rancher told me to shoot my supper, feel free to hunt for my food. I lived off rabbits mostly, that summer, and some corn he let me pick and this and that. My food budget was 5 bucks a week for flour, salt, things like that. I didn't drink milk, an extravagance, but had my coffee, though.

Anyway, times were about as tight as they ever have been for a poor boy trying to make his way thorough a major college education on his own. My parents were working poor. I had my old side by side there (wasn't old at the time), my .257 Roberts, a .22 caliber Mossberg M152 semi auto. I have always been a rifleman. Now, I could have used that shotgun for more than I did, he had hog and Javelina there that were legal, so the .257 came in handy once for the "other white meat", but mostly I used the .22 because a box of shotgun shells was nearly my weekly food budget! I didn't have many and I had a bulk pack of .22s. The .22 is perhaps the most effective per dollar survival tool around, but the shotgun is far more effective as a meat getter, pigs to rabbits. Hopefully, I'll never be in that financial shape again. The financial system will have to collapse, another great depression, to cause that. So, the shotgun seems my best bet for future hard times, but when you're really, really broke, the .22 is still attractive, LOL. However, in today's world, frankly, shotgun shells are much cheaper than they were then. I remember giving about 3 dollars a box back then and they ain't any more expensive than that now! So, they're more affordable now days and my weekly food budget is no where near 5 bucks a week now. :D So times have changes. That little coach gun is my go to when it comes to survival now, if I need survival. And, I have plenty of ammo stashed for it. I still consider myself a rifleman, love shooting a .22, but I can't deny the superiority of the shotgun as a survival tool and the coach gun is one handy, effective package.

Sorry for the ramble, just trying to expand on why I have a coach gun. Hunting and home defense is only part of it and my past experiences trying to feed myself and stay alive still haunt me. I like to be prepared for rough times even though I sorta figure I've made it past that to financial security at long last. But, you just never know......

[Markbo]

I appreciate that story very much, thank you.

I will have to pattern mine. If it is insufficient I am nearby Briley Manufacturing and I know they can put chokes on it. Not quite sure what I could about another set of barrels with longer tubes and tighter choke... might take some investigative work to find out!

[Gary A]

Resurrecting this thread for a moment, it might be worth noting that the Spartan coach gun can be had in three different configurations:

Model 89548 - hardwood stock, cyl/cyl fixed choke, internal hammers
Model 89552 - walnut stock, 4 choke tubes, internal hammers
Model 89546 - walnut stock, 4 choke tubes, functioning external hammers

It might also be noted that all Spartan coach guns are all double trigger, only take 2 3/4 inch shells, not 3 inch (not a problem in my view) and the choke tubed version will cost around 40-50 dollars more than the basic and the functioning hammer version might cost around 175-180 dollars more than the basic 89548. I really do want a hammered version just 'cause.

I recently purchased the basic 89548 and so far am very happy with it.

Also, the Stoeger Silverado matte-nickel finished coach gun with straight English stock is quite nice with double triggers and IC/Mod fixed chokes. (I wish this model came in all-blue but then it wouldn't be called "Silverado", I guess.)

[MCgunner]

only take 2 3/4 inch shells,

My 20 gauge has 3" chambers and I've been using 'em on waterfowl.

[ArmedBear]

Hey Markbo-

Who actually makes that EMF?

[Gary A]

McGunner - good point, I should have noted the models I referred to are 12 gauge.

[coinshooter]

The Remingtons are real good values really like the choke tubes.

[MAKster]

The EMF coach guns are made in China and are the same as the TTN models.

[Marlin 45 carbine]

I have a Stoeger coach 20" barrel, right improved cylinder choke, left modified. have hunted with it couple times it did well but I've practiced quick-shooting w/it several times. keep it propped in the near corner by my bed and Makarov velcro-strapped to bed post by flashlight and nite-lite switch.
I'se skeered of tha dark.

[boots]

The EMF coach guns are made in China and are the same as the TTN models.

are you sure??? they sure do look similar, but i have a ttn and it doesn't have the safety like the emf...

[rocinante]

I got a chinese 12 gauge SxS with exposed hammers for 200. I am getting into cowboy shooting and can't work up excitement about the shotgun so I went as cheap as I could. It aint near as ugly as folks say and goes bang bang. Actually I am kind of pleased with the value/money exchange. That will do pig.

[Markbo]

My EMF was absolutely, positively Russian made.

rocinante - under what brand is your gun sold? Can you post some pics please?

[MAKster]

According to EMF's own website, the coach shotguns are made in China.
http://www.emf-company.com/shotguns.htm

[rocinante]

rocinante - under what brand is your gun sold? Can you post some pics please?

It is a century import model number JW2000. From what I gather there is an even cheaper SxS model 99 I think. Go to classicarms.us or just search on gunbroker.com.

[Markbo]

MAK I bought mine used. I have been in contact with the current iteration and they could not help me.