[Pancho]

It's obvious with all of my current posts that I'm newly back from the Ohio shot gun season hunt. I didn't tag anything but I was able to help out a young girl in our group that shot 8 times at a nice 10 point and hit it 3 times. That buck wouldn't stay down. He finally ran within my range and I put it down with my trusty patched ball and black powder. The deer was all her's but it was great to put down a nice deer and not have to gut or drag, her husband did that

[Will5A1]

I just came in to drink a cup of coffee and stretch out - I haven't seen nor heard any deer for the past three days and this is getting fustrating. Usually on opening day Monday I get one but it was raining all day and the deer were not moving and all I did was get soaking wet. Yesterday I didn't dress warm enough and like to froze by the time I got back to the house. It is much warmer today but still no luck, I'll go back out in a little bit. What is really weird to me, at least, is this week during gun season I usually hear all sort of shots in the distance, very few on Monday, a few more yesterday and 2-3 today.

[Pancho]

Will5a1, Sounds like you live in Ohio, It rained hard and constant the first half of the day at deer camp in Southeastern Ohio opening day and we didn't even go out until 2 p.m. up until that time we heard only 2 shots. It's deer country all around our camp and mostly state owned land so past years opening day sounds like a war zone. This is shotgun season so most come out this time of year not so much during muzzleloading season. Yesterday was great weather and we tagged eight deer. Like I said not for me I was the only one using a smoke-pole. Only one assist but that was great. I've got two more seasons to put protein in the freezer short gun seasons (two days) and muzzleloading season.

[dwave]

Hey Pancho, where were you at in SE Ohio? I live in the SE.

[Pancho]

South on 93 from Oak Hill. Great country.

[Shawnee]

Hi Dwave & Pancho...

I'm between you guys. Maybe we should load up some charcoal-burners, meet at Rushville, and introduce ourselves to "Rachael".

LOLOL ! :D:D

[Will5A1]

I guess I have to go to the other side of the state this year with you guys - I'm in SW Ohio (Warren County) and no luck again this evening, well its off to bed and try again in the morning.

[Pancho]

As Shawnee already knows I live in Warren county just outside of Goshen.
I don't know who Rachael is but if she or it belongs to Shawnee it'll be worth meeting

[Shawnee]

Hi Pancho...

You must not have been caught in the "BigIron" tangle. Dwave or I will have to fill youn in on that one. Long tale. Major mess ! :banghead:

[Pancho]

"BigIron" tangle. Sounds like a title to a book. Go ahead tell me all about it.

[Shawnee]

Hi Pancho...

Will do so next time we hook up. It is a Looooooonnnng, sad tale of Ridiculousness Rampant in Ohio. :banghead:

[dwave]

Major mess !

It is a Looooooonnnng, sad tale of Ridiculousness Rampant in Ohio.

So true, and at the same time, thats an understatement! :evil:

I got really lucky, I was going to send my revolver in for a little work, but I had found someone in Pomeroy, OH to do what I wanted. Glad I did! Really, the biggest reason that I didn't was because they said that they would send me samples of their bullets to try out and never did. Lost my address, stuff like that. Anyways, I decided that if I couldn't trust them to send me a few bullets like they promised, how could I trust them with my gun.

Anyways, back on the topic! :D Has anyone done any good here in SE Ohio? I haven't even got to see a deer this year! All I could find were deer tracks, and you can't eat those! :cool:

[Shawnee]

Just saw this yesterday...

11/29/2007 11:12:00 AM Deer hunting numbers down in Highland County

The Hillsboro Times-Gazette

Ohio hunters killed less than half the number of deer they did a year ago on the opening day of the 2007 deer-gun season Monday.

Ohio hunters killed a preliminary total of 19,391 deer Monday, well below the 2006 opening day total of 39,629.

The deer-gun season remains open through Sunday, Dec. 2, then reopens for two days on Saturday and Sunday, Dec. 15 and 16.

Guernsey County reported the highest total from its check stations with a total of 871, followed by Tuscarawas County with 833 and Harrison County with 732.

In Highland County, a total of 294 deer were checked in Monday, compared to 553 on opening day a year ago. Highland County's total ranked 26th among the state's 88 counties.
________________________________

Am sure the rainy first day had an impact. But yesterday I bet I didn't hear 5 shots all day. Won't get out today until about noon but haven't heard any shots today yet either. Have seen deer and 7 have been taken within a mile but haven't had a decent shot at any bucks yet. I use a Super Blackhawk so am a little limited re: range but the shotgunners aren't doing much better so far. :o

[dwave]

That is the way it's been around here, hardly anyone shooting. It seems like having monday rained out really put a damper on the hunting around here, hardy anyone out so the deer really aren't moving.

[Misfire99]

You guys want some real fun you should come hunting in Montana. Here the wildlife fight back. There have been five grizzly bear attacks in Park County for October and November alone. One guy got his face completely torn off by one swipe. He is in the hospital that is about five blocks from my house. Gives deer hunting a hole new meaning.

[dwave]

One of my friends goes out to Montana for deer hunting, went out resent too. He got a Doe, but no bear attacks. I finally got to shoot at one with my Muzzle loader. It was about a 200 yard shot (a little over according to my range finder). I missed though. I would have liked to have had a better shot, or if they would have just stood still! :D At least I finally seen a few. There was 4 Does. 3 looked pretty young, and 1 was big. Took my shot at the big one for obvious reasons. If anyone was wondering, I had a .45 Pedersoli Frontier rifle using 200 gr. LEE REAL bullets with a 70 gr. charge of Goex using a Musket cap.

[Ohioan]

I don't think getting my face ripped off by a Griz is "fun"......

I had a doe run..well.. hobble across the road in front of me yesterday morning. Draggin her back leg, blood all down the leg... She probably didn't make it far.

My father shot a BIIIIIG doe Tuesday night.

I havn't heard a whole lot of gunshots this year. Most of the students at the school I work at havn't had mch luck either. Slow year I suppose....

I live in Ross county.

[Pancho]

Yikes! Shawnee that's 20,000 more deer that might be bumperhunted. You'd think the car insurance companies would want to put a bounty on deer in Ohio. For every dead deer you see on the highway is an auto accident and most end up in a claim.
What would be interesting is if the insurance companies would post yearly the number of deer/auto accidents and do it just before opening day.

[Misfire99]

Yea the last time I got a deer it was with a Honda Odyssey in Arizona, just north of Flagstaff, on the drive back to Montana. I got out took a look at the damage and told my wife "Well that's thirty five hundred in damage." The bill came to three thousand four hundred and eighty five dollars. I almost lost my family over that deer. We kept going and ran into a blizzard with snow flakes the size of golf balls. I had one head light pointing up into the sky and the other pointed to the far edge of the road. Nothing lighted right in front of me. It got so bad my wife suggested we start praying. If you knew my wife that would tell you how bad it was. But guess what as soon as we started praying the blizzard eased up enough for us to see.

[mykeal]

The biggest problem is not car/deer accidents, although that's a significant one, it's starvation and disease caused by overpopulation. We've removed all the natural predators in the Midwest, and the only controls on the deer population are hunting, starvation and disease. Take away hunting and the other two will make up the difference.

As a young lad growing up in Michigan I got a part time job with the DNR (actually as a lifeguard at a State Park for the summer, but it came with a commitment to help out as a 'volunteer' at other times). I was asked to help with wildlife surveys, and got an assignment in February one year to survey a piece of land in the State Forest. The snow was deep - six feet or better in protected areas - and I came upon a deer feeding yard in a cedar swamp. I use the term deer feeding yard to describe a natural situation where a herd of deer get trapped by the snow depth in a heavily forested area and essentially eat everything they can reach over the weeks. Once they've taken all the bark, twigs and underbrush they starve to death. The yard I found had carcasses of some 25 -30 deer, with about 10 or so more still alive but obviously near death - just skin and bones, freezing in the cold as their bodies could not produce natural warmth. One buck, still alive, was hanging from the crotch of a branch; he'd been standing on his hind legs trying to reach a leaf, slipped and hung himself by the neck in the crotch. His hind feet were just touching the ground, one foreleg was caught in the crotch and his tongue was handing out the side.

I collapsed on the ground and bawled my eyes out. There was nothing I could do for them. I finally had to flee, literally trying to run on snowshoes in the deep snow. I still have occasional nightmares about that sight. Back at the DNR office an old salt told me that was the worst part of his job. He said that I would appreciate the need for hunting for the rest of my life.

Hunting it's the only tool we have left to manage the herds and to meet the obligation we have to prevent those magnificent animals from meeting a horrific death caused by our disruption of their habitat. For many years I shared the feelings of my contemporaries that taking a doe was immoral, but over the years I've come to terms with that as a more effective means of keeping the herd strong and healthy. I still don't like it, but I can accept it.

I shudder at the thought of the harvest being down in some areas - it means a tough winter for those animals that were not taken. Cars are not their worst enemies.

[1911RjB]

I don't think getting my face ripped off by a Griz is "fun"......


lol......

[Pancho]

mykeal, you have an insight into the problem that most of us have never seen and few can understand. Unfortunately the ones who don't understand aren't on this forum. I can understand how that could have been a tough lesson to learn.
I regularly use the car accident story to antihunting people I know to explain that thinning the herd is important and needed. They'd never understand what you know to be true some of those people think that eggs come from cartons.

[Shawnee]

I've become a "kinder, gentler" person as I have matured but formerly when some ignorant Bambi-lover would confront me I would say;

"Right! We should let them die a natural death."

The Pureheart would agree, and then I would point out that a "natural death" for a deer is not being taken softly up to heaven on a fluffy pink cloud. :what: It was getting old and weak until they were pulled down by farm dogs or coyotes who would begin eating it at its' rectum before it was dead, or getting hit by a car to crawl off with legs broken and most of their internal organs ruptured to die in a couple pain-filled hours, or to wear out their teeth so they could enjoy the slow death of starvation.:eek:

Worked pretty well.:cool:

[Pancho]

I've got to remember that one.

[mykeal]

The only "predators" left to control the population are, in order:
1) hunting
2) starvation
3) tuberculosis
4) chronic wasting disease
5) feral dogs/coyotes/bears
6) auto accidents

We are familiar with the first and sixth, in general, with some hunters aware of the third and fourth. The second and fifth are rarely seen by anyone as the scavengers are very efficient.

The order of the last 4 can vary somewhat depending on the species and the conditions from year to year.

In facing the anti-hunters I suggest a calm, simple statement to the facts: "We have removed their natural habitat with our overdevelopment. The natural predators are gone, and they will starve to death due to overpopulation without sound, scientific management. Hunting is the most effective tool of the wildlife manager." They can choose to believe or not.

[Shawnee]

Would offer that anyone who farms and most who live in farm country are pretty well aware of all six "modes of departure."
Would also agree that a calm, factual response, at least to begin with, is most effective.

[mykeal]

Would offer that anyone who farms and most who live in farm country are pretty well aware of all six "modes of departure."

Yes, I agree. But damn few of the anti-hunters live in farm country. They're the ones who need the education.

[Pancho]

In southern Ohio bears are rare and so far the coyotes are content with road kill,pets, and garbage. Not much evidence to support that coyotes are pack hunting deer down here......yet. They sure are getting brave though. Two of them trotted right up to my bird feeders that aren't 25' from my kitchen window. I wasn't ready for them but I am now. I've got a 22mag winchester ready for the next visit. I've noticed that these coyotes have colorfull coats of black and red along with the typical gray. They must be eating well her in Ohio for they've got great body mass. I suspect when the easy eating is done they'll learn to hunt in packs for the deer.There has been no evidence of that yet. We are seeing more road killed coyotes attracted to the many deer carcuss along the roads. It sure saves the road crews in charge of picking up the dead dear cause the coyotes don't leave much.
MyKeal,you might know the answer to these questions. Can coyotes mate with dogs or foxes? I'm seeing big coyotes the size of german shepards and they have the bright red coats and black faces of fox. I'm setting up my house to take advantage of the real brave ones that approach the house in the middle of the day. Sure would like to have a couple of their hides on my wall.

[mykeal]

Coyotes can and occasionally do mate with feral dogs. I am not aware that they mate with foxes - they pretty much avoid each other.

Coyotes will not generally hunt grown deer, and you'll likely never find evidence of coyotes taking fawns - they are the biggest threat to fawns but once one is taken there's precious little evidence left.

They will take starving or diseased weakened adult deer; this usually happens in the late winter when we aren't out looking around, and by spring there's no sign remaining of the coyote's impact.

[____hoot____]

Saw a vidio of two coyotes killing a 450 pound cow elk in deep snow, so they can kill any deer if the conditions are right. Much of their scat I see here in Michigan has deer hair in it. They feed on foxes if they can catch them, as wolves will feed on coyotes if they can, also. There are coy-dog crosses mostly at the edges of their range where populations and breeding opportunitys are slim. Wolf /dog and coy/dog crosses are very rare in normal habitates. Have never heard of foxes crossing with any of the other canines. Bobcat/housecat crosses are possible though as I have seen the results.

[Pancho]

Bobcat/housecat! Can you imagine Fluffy knocked up by a bobcat? What a litter that would be.

[Misfire99]

Bobcat/housecat! Can you imagine Fluffy knocked up by a bobcat? What a litter that would be.

That's the kitten I want. Come here Garfield let me show you your new friend.

[Pancho]

The dnr in Ohio added a short gun season this year Dec. 15 &16 and then we still have primitive weapon season in Jan. Come on guys let's get out there and thin the herd!