M1 Carbine still my best deer rifle..


PDA






brisco
November 28, 2007, 10:24 PM
Don't know why people knock the M1-carbine for whitetail deer, just got another 2 this year with mine. That makes 5 total and have never had one run more that an few yards. Just use good ammo (not ball) and shot placement. Later, B.

If you enjoyed reading about "M1 Carbine still my best deer rifle.." here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
SpeedAKL
November 28, 2007, 10:32 PM
The Carbine is a great little weapon. I've never taken it outside the range, but my grandfather has killed multiple whitetails with it.

351 WINCHESTER
November 28, 2007, 11:05 PM
Up close and with good expanding bullets the carbine will cleanly kill deer. For reasons unbeknown to myself a lot of folks think you need a .300 mag. to kill deer. Personally I mostly use a .30-30.

MCgunner
November 28, 2007, 11:07 PM
Don't know why people knock the M1-carbine for whitetail deer

Probably because it's ballistically challenged and there are far better choices out there for deer calibers, like about 90 percent of all available centerfire calibers. Yeah, it'll kill a deer, not very far and Texas deer, hell, a .22 mag might be enough, though illegal. But, I shoot .308, personally, and have never hunted deer with less than a .357 Magnum which is pretty minimal.

I've killed a couple of deer out to 50 yards with the .357 in a 6.5" revolver which has less energy than the .30 Carbine, but a lot heavier bullet for penetration. I'd say hunting deer with a .357 revolver is about the same marginal as hunting with a .30 carbine. It'll do the job if you can do yours.

ArfinGreebly
November 28, 2007, 11:12 PM
But . . .

I thought you needed a .458 Win to shoot deers.

It's true!

I saw it here on the rifle forum!

:D

Kimber1911_06238
November 28, 2007, 11:28 PM
of course it'll do it's job if you do yours and keep the range relatively short. People knock it because it has some serious shortcomings (bullet selection, low velocity, etc.)

dakotasin
November 28, 2007, 11:47 PM
people 'knock' it for deer because, well, it ain't legal in some states.

Deacon Blues
November 29, 2007, 12:08 AM
I tend to think the main weakness of the M1 Carbine is ammo. Plenty of people have never taken lever guns seriously for hunting for the same reason. In both cases, there are some good choices available today - perhaps not locally, though.

Roswell 1847
November 29, 2007, 12:46 AM
Anyone ever tried a truncated cone hollowpoint in the .30 Carbine?

I had some Supervel 9mm years ago that were really something else.
They'd cut through a car body like a drill from any angle, the hollowpoint catching the metal like a tube cutter, and expanded into a buss saw in the old waterlogged catalogs I tested them on. They'd cut a cone shaped hole through these thick pattern catalogs so smoothly it looked like a machine had done it. Exit holes were the size of your hand.
Truncated Cone bullets generally feed well in autoloaders near as I can tell.

I had some Trucated cone military sub machinegun loads I tried in the same P35 and aside from the tough primers requiring second strikes they shot like 357 magnum rounds.

Anyway I always figured a truncated cone slug was the way to go with the 30 carbine. Also solid bronze or copper lightweight bullets, like the BAT loads use, for higher velocity.

Dave Markowitz
November 29, 2007, 09:45 AM
Cor-Bon loads a 100 grain DPX in .30 Carbine. According to John Farnham it expands well and penetrates deeply. Unfortunately, it's over a buck a round.

Selfdfenz
November 29, 2007, 10:03 AM
people 'knock' it for deer because, well, it ain't legal in some states

Excellent point, but in this state, were the M1 carbine is not a legal option handguns, black powder rifles and bows & arrows are. Ditto for the 223 = not an option.

That decision on the part of wildlife managers always made me scratch my head and it's been that way for decades.

Best

S-

Eric F
November 29, 2007, 11:14 AM
I guess it comes down to where you are and what the deer are like. For example in south east Va(home) If you could find a place to rifle hunt(few and far between areas) a 30 carbine would be great if you could some how overcome the magazine restriction of 3 rounds(I think) but certianly less than 5. The woods are thick and deer are generaly small more like large dogs and thin skinned.
On the other hand in northern MI(home away from home) deer are large and very thick skinned and in the woods I hunt a 150 yard shot common so a 30 carbine would not be the best choice. There are always execptions like hunting a bait pile for a doe from a tree stand 75 yards away(head shot time):D I have done this with a 223(not too sure on the legality of that though but it worked) a 30 carbine would be fine.
Next year I plan on using my new 50-90 sharps as I get tired of looking for deer that run off after being hit not that it happens a lot. I cannot track very well(unless it snowed):uhoh:
I figure with a 600 gr bullet they will fall where they are.

sixgunner455
November 29, 2007, 11:56 AM
Cor-Bon loads a 100 grain DPX in .30 Carbine. According to John Farnham it expands well and penetrates deeply. Unfortunately, it's over a buck a round.


So? Any premium rifle cartridge/bullet is expensive. How many of them you gonna fire? Box of 20 that you buy for the actual hunt ought to last at least through a couple of deer, if you can't shoot well, and if you can, then half a dozen deer. If that's a dollar a round, then that's 20 bucks for half a dozen deer. Big deal.

scbair
November 29, 2007, 12:30 PM
.357 Magnum = 125 gr. @1400 fps or 158 gr. @1200 fps (approximately, IIRC)

.30 USC = 110 gr. @1900 fps

I would think the sectional density of a .308" 110 grainer would equal or surpass a .357" 125 grainer (don't have any manuals ready at hand . . .).

Using good expanding projectiles, I'd rate the .30 USC as at least the equal of the .357 magnum, fully up to the task of a typical SC whitetail (100 pounds, plus or minus) at ranges inside 100 yards.

mljdeckard
November 29, 2007, 12:40 PM
My dad killed several deer with the one I have now. If I thought I would never need a shot over 100 yards, I might use it. As it is now, it is my wife's primary HD rifle, and we will take it for her to have in camp when we hunt.

These were mule deer, not white tails.

Ash
November 29, 2007, 03:57 PM
I can't see how anyone can knock a lever-action for deer as the 30-30 is still up there in the most popular deer caliber category.

Ash

MCgunner
November 29, 2007, 04:19 PM
.357 Magnum = 125 gr. @1400 fps or 158 gr. @1200 fps (approximately, IIRC)

.30 USC = 110 gr. @1900 fps

I would think the sectional density of a .308" 110 grainer would equal or surpass a .357" 125 grainer (don't have any manuals ready at hand . . .).

Using good expanding projectiles, I'd rate the .30 USC as at least the equal of the .357 magnum, fully up to the task of a typical SC whitetail (100 pounds, plus or minus) at ranges inside 100 yards.

Where'd you pull THAT pathetic .357 load from?

I load a 180 XTP/JHP to 1401 fps out of a 6.5" barrel

I also load a 158 grain cast SWC to 1470 fps out of the same gun.

These loads are available from the factory from Buffalo Bore, though the 180 BB uses a cast bullet.

Your load looks more like .38 special +P and I'd NEVER EVER think about hunting deer with a 125 grain JHP, not enough penetration. Good self defense bullet, not so good for game. Stick to 158 and up.

Out of my 20" Rossi carbine, I push that 158 grain load to near 1900 fps. IIRC, the 110 grain Carbine load is around 2000 fps? Just checking the Speer No. 11 manual, they list a top load at 1960 fps. The .357 out of a rifle length barrel is considerably more stomp and can push a heavier bullet in a larger diameter. The .357 with a nice wide, flat nose doesn't need to expand to kill deer quite dead. None of mine went more than 20 yards after being lung shot.

Buffalo Bore lists their 180 at over 1800 fps from a 20" barrel. I can't get that with my handload, using AA#9, perhaps something slower like H110 would be better out of the rifle barrel, don't know. But, that load is so accurate out of my Ruger revolver, I've stuck with it and I don't hunt much with the .357 carbine. I have better rifles in bigger calibers. But, it's a neat gun and capable out to 100 yards on deer sized game.

MCgunner
November 29, 2007, 04:35 PM
1960 fps/110 grain .30 caliber = 938 ft lbs

1401 fps/180 grain .357 from revolver = 785 ft lbs

1860 fps/158 SWC .357 20" rifle (looked it up) = 1213 ft lbs

IMHO, the .357 revolver and the .30 carbine would best be limited to 50 yards on deer maximum. The .357 rifle is over 600 ft lbs at 100 yards and I have killed quite dead with it at 80 yards. I would limit it to 100 yards.

That's the numbers. The .30 carbine doesn't have a lot of lead making those numbers. I could run it through my ballistics program to see what it's doing at 50 and 100, but I'm lazy. I would suspect around 400 ft lbs or maybe less at 100 and that really ain't enough especially considering the tiny bullet.

Geronimo45
November 29, 2007, 04:42 PM
But . . .

I thought you needed a .458 Win to shoot deers.
.50 BMG can at least manage to make a kill at a hundred yards. The .458 is basically a slingshot past 75 yards. :p

All those people in early 1800s, 1700s killing deer and bear with round balls of lead thrown at low velocities... they really poisoned 'em and claimed to have shot 'em. ;)

MCgunner
November 29, 2007, 04:45 PM
There's something to be said for a 58 caliber round ball. :D How about a 50 caliber pushing a 385 grain Minie?

http://thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=67872&d=1196012439

Eightball
November 29, 2007, 07:59 PM
I would assume that, if it's legal and you aren't trying to take a really long shot, and have GOOD ammunition/bullets loaded up, and are quite competent with the firearm, then yes, an M1 Carbine would work. Oh wait, that set of requirements applies to every other legal deer calibre......:rolleyes:

I see no problem with it, so long as you're not trying to push the weapon or round to the point where it's questionable. If people can kill deer with .357 Mag or, in some states, 9mm (seen it done), then .30 should be fine, under the right conditions. Try to make the M1 Carbine do what a Sako 75 in .30-06 can do at 300 yards, and that's just not right; but try to make a Sako 75 in .30-06 do what an M1 Carbine can do within, say, 100 yards when loaded right--i.e. make the deer dead--then it doesn't really matter which rifle, now, does it?

If you enjoyed reading about "M1 Carbine still my best deer rifle.." here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!