Are there any gun brands that you will never buy from again?


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firestar
July 20, 2003, 03:56 PM
Have you ever bought a gun that was so bad and or the customer service was so poor that you swore that you would NEVER buy a gun from that company again?

It only counts if you owned a gun from that company, lets not just bash guns that we have heard bad thing about. I want to see which gun companies have messed up the most.

Mine are:

Kel-Tec (extremly poor quality of the gun but great customer service)

Taurus (poor quality and poor customer service)

Jennings (need I say more?)

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capnrik
July 20, 2003, 04:15 PM
Ruger. And politics has nothing to do with it. When the M77 rifle came out, I bought one in 6mm Remington, with a 3X9 Leupold scope. Nothing I could do would produce a group smaller than 5 1/2 inches at 100 yards benchrest.

I bought one other Ruger rifle...a 10/22. The trigger pull was unbelievable. About 10 pounds, with a mile of creep, and it would not go 20 rounds without a jam. I put a $200 Volquartsen action in this $140.00 rifle, in order to get it to compete with my 50 year old Winchester M74.

I have a Ruger Security Six that was my father's gun. The best Ruger I have ever owned, it's trigger pull is still horrible.

I have a Ruger P85 in 9mm. Totally reliable, but the trigger is abysmal. Not to mention the finish.

My son has a Ruger 22/45. Guess what? The trigger is pretty nice! Jams at least once per magazine.

A friend bought the little Ruger bolt action .22 Hornet. Three inch groups at 100 yards on the best day.

I'm done.

Hkmp5sd
July 20, 2003, 04:19 PM
Never say never.

Atticus
July 20, 2003, 04:28 PM
Springfield Armory. I have an old beef with them. No quality issues involved - I just don't like being promised a sales incentive to buy a gun, that they can't, or won't, deliver on a timely basis. I'll never buy another.

Edit- actually there was a quality issue that I forgot about. The M1A Scout rifle came with out-of-spec scope mount brackets, that the op-rod would bump into on every cycle.
I sent it back, they replaced the mounts, and had it back to me in five days.
At that time I was impressed. It went downhill from there.

firestar
July 20, 2003, 04:30 PM
I forgot about my Ruger 10/22. If that was my first Ruger, I may never have bought another gun from that company. It was a jam-o-matic with all ammo and mags. It was a poor shooter, inaccurate for a .22 rifle. My MKII could shoot right with it and the 10/22 had a nice 6x32 scope on it in an effort to make it more accurate. There were some serious problems with this gun, Ruger was kind enough to send me another mag for it to see if that helped before I had to send it in. That was nice of them but it didn't work. I am tried of sending guns in so I sold it at a HUGE loss! I got $90 for it and I paid $150.

Luckly, I had a MK II that was a good gun so it didn't sour me on Rugers compleatly. I have owned several Rugers after the 10-22 and I think they are great guns for the money, some of the best deals out there.

Quantrill
July 20, 2003, 04:43 PM
"Pride of Spain" shotguns. My friend bought a SXS double. It was beautiful and inexpensive. 25 rounds later, it would not fire. My friend took it apart, thinking to make whatever parts were needed (at that time we both worked in a very large machine shop). Every part in the action was either "pot metal" or dead soft. Never, ever buy a "Pride of Spain" shotgun.
Quantrill

MicroBalrog
July 20, 2003, 04:44 PM
Even though I'd like the Model 500...

S&W.

mdsteele
July 20, 2003, 06:02 PM
Bryco/Jennings. The only way I would have one if it was the only thing I could get.

Lexter
July 20, 2003, 06:07 PM
I'd have to say I'd never buy another Taurus. "Customer-no-service" sealed their fate with me! I just can't deal with them...and I'm looking for a wheel gun now!


Lexter in NC

jerryd
July 20, 2003, 06:24 PM
Had 2 mini 14s best group was about 8in at 50yds, 10-22 same thing, sold all three,. Maybe try a revolver 45lc.

.45Ruger
July 20, 2003, 06:34 PM
Hi Point, I had the Compact 9mm for three weeks when the magazine disconnect button became stuck, the magazine would only stay in if I held it there.

RepublicanMan
July 20, 2003, 06:44 PM
Definitely Glock....had a G23, FTF, FTE, not terribly accurate and it didn't matter what I put through it or how many different mags I tried in it. I realize it was probably just a fluke that I got such a lousy one but customer service couldn't have cared less about it since I wasn't a big spender in their eyes.

Baba Louie
July 20, 2003, 06:46 PM
MicroBalrog,

What's wrong w/ S&W? Politics should have no bearing on the Pre-agreement products as no money then goes into corporate hands, or are you just so turned off by that misfortune that you'd turn your nose up to, oh say, a 1959 N-Frame .44?

Just wondering.

Adios

spartacus2002
July 20, 2003, 06:57 PM
Charles Daly. Parts machined by Cro-Magnon tech, slide metal was as soft as buttah. BUTTAH!

BUT, they did refund me my purchase price, and some people love theirs.

DW
July 20, 2003, 07:36 PM
Kel-Tec...my wifes P32 failed on it's first trip to the range.

DW

Justin
July 20, 2003, 08:26 PM
Another vote for Ruger.
While the 22/45 is an admirable little plinker, the supposedly 'Target Grade' MK II that I have sucks.

From the factory there was a problem with the rear sight. It was improperly installed, so adjusting the screw would not change the sight. I ended up taking it to a smith to have it fixed. The trigger is beyond awful, and the extractor doesn't work. As for accuracy, but not accurate enough to be called a target pistol by any stretch of the imagination.
I've considered ordering one of the Volquarsten triggers for it, but will probably just get a Baikal IZH 35 instead.

LostOneToo
July 20, 2003, 08:28 PM
Springfield Compact .45..... worst pistol I've ever had the displeasure to own.:scrutiny:

MicroBalrog
July 20, 2003, 08:33 PM
What's wrong w/ S&W? Politics should have no bearing on the Pre-agreement products as no money then goes into corporate hands, or are you just so turned off by that misfortune that you'd turn your nose up to, oh say, a 1959 N-Frame .44?


1. The topic says, "Who wouldn't you buy a gun from?" I would never buy a gun from S&W, but I could buy a gun, from Joe X made by them,, however...

2.If I could own guns, I'd go for hi-cap semi-autos.

Mastrogiacomo
July 20, 2003, 08:34 PM
I like the revolvers but for pistols -- S&W. I'm sticking with Berettas.

jacketch
July 20, 2003, 08:57 PM
Ditto Republicanman.
Their guns may well be better than my experience indicated but it ruined me on plastic.

chetrogers
July 20, 2003, 09:07 PM
Bryco/Jennings

10-Ring
July 20, 2003, 09:20 PM
Never know who will bring the next biggest, best thing to market...never say never ;)

larryw
July 20, 2003, 10:34 PM
Springfield Armory. Company has serious (fatal?) quality problems.

They were unable to get my new TRP to feed factory ball ammo after two extended stays at their service department (4 1/2 of the first 5 months of ownership). Add to this the machining on the slide and frame done by a chain saw, the "dehorned" edges that drew blood and the fact that the gun shot half a foot high and to starboard with factory ball ammo.

Then they got downright snitty when I had the audacity to politely ask them to fix it right the third time I had to sent it to them. Decided instead to pay a COMPETENT gun smith to fix it instead.

Passed on the M6 because of the name stamped on the side. Am building an M1A from parts instead of buying one of them. Next 1911 will say Valtro.

marsh
July 20, 2003, 10:47 PM
Believe it or not-SIG. Year ago last Christmas, wife bought me a brand new P210-5. Supposedly, only one in stock. Whole bunch of money.Rear sight has weak detent spring in it so that as I fire it, the detent releases and the sight screw unscrews itself, raising the elevation. SIG refuses to even look at it saying they don't warranty it even though they sold it. They told me to go out and buy a tube of Loc-Tite. That sort of negates the purpose of the adjustable sight. Very uncaring people.

NEVER AGAIN!!!!!

bad_dad_brad
July 20, 2003, 10:54 PM
Guess I have been lucky with purchases over the last 30 years from:

Ruger
Kahr
Bushmaster
Glock
KelTec
Beretta
Century Arms
Winchester

No problems. I don't shoot as much as I would like - but not a lemon from any of those companies. I never had to contact anyone, so I can't complain about customer service.

Jeff OTMG
July 20, 2003, 11:25 PM
RUGER, and politics has EVERYTHING to do with it.

Neal Bloom
July 20, 2003, 11:30 PM
Taurus.

rrader
July 21, 2003, 12:47 AM
Mossberg: Bought a N.I.B. 500 that came with a magazine tube that is 1/4" off center, top and bottom surfaces ot the action bars were literally as rough as files, magazine tube screwed in so tight it has to go to a smith to be removed, really crappy blueing, etc...

My impression is that there is no quality control of any kind at Mossberg.

Mike Irwin
July 21, 2003, 12:51 AM
It's looking increasingly as if I may never again purchase a new S&W revolver, or any made after 2000. No great loss, though.

AMT. Crappier expensive guns were never made, but since they're out of business, all I can say is good riddance.

OEF_VET
July 21, 2003, 01:19 AM
Let's see, I'll never own another:
Lorcin
Hi-Point handgun

I wouldn't necessarily rule out a Hi-Point carbine, but I'd be more apt to buy a Ruger PC-9 or possibly a Kel-Tec.

Frank

Malone LaVeigh
July 21, 2003, 01:37 AM
Ditto AMT. .380 Backup that finally just became a single shot. Some "backup."

coldshot03/04
July 21, 2003, 01:44 AM
Believe it or not.:uhoh: "KIMBER"

Zeke Menuar
July 21, 2003, 02:26 AM
Ruger.

A shoddy product and very poor customer service. Never again.

ZM

4thHorseman
July 21, 2003, 02:34 AM
Para-Ord = Jam-o-matic

V-fib
July 21, 2003, 02:53 AM
Lexter, and others tired of Taurus “customer no service.”

I had a Taurus PT-22 that fell apart while I was firing it. Sent it back to Taurus and had the same slow, rude when you call customer no service that others have talked about. Swore I would never buy a Taurus again. Then my Dealer told me about Davidson’s Gallery of Guns and their lifetime replacement policy. I bought my Ruger Sp101 (never any doubt I’d have trouble with it) and more recently a Taurus 94 .22lr rev through Davidsons. The 94 is a fine working gun no problems with it after 100’s of rounds but...... if I do have a problem with it Davidsons will take care of it. No more having to deal with Taurus.

:cool:

c_yeager
July 21, 2003, 03:28 AM
Until Browning figures out how to keep the entire top strap and action from walking out of my buckmark every 50 rounds im not going to be sending any buisiness their way. I dont like having to apply locktite to NIB guns within the first 500 rounds.

faustulus
July 21, 2003, 05:13 AM
Ruger

wingman
July 21, 2003, 07:37 AM
Not a brand but a company, eaa.

rock jock
July 21, 2003, 11:16 AM
Kel-Tec. Junk gun, good service.

mountain_cowboy
July 21, 2003, 03:51 PM
I can't believe some of the responses on here for NEVER buying a gun by a certain manufacturer again.

DW- it failed on the FIRST trip to the range? Half the semi-autos out there will do that. It's a $230 gun, it could take a little adjustment.

capnrik- a lot of problems with those triggers, huh? Ever think to maybe dry fire them first to see how the trigger broke?

zeke- Ruger has some of the best customer service in the industry. As for shoddy products, you could shoot a Ruger with any of its competitors and it would keep going.

I really just don't get those writing off a company, especially over one product. Every manufacturer makes crap, it just depends on how often and what you pay for it. Even being burned once is no reason to give up on a company.

:confused:

Quantrill
July 21, 2003, 04:11 PM
Once burned, twice shy

Zip06
July 21, 2003, 05:56 PM
I have had great luck with pistols from the following:
Ruger
Glock
Sig Sauer
Colt
Browning/FN
Makarov
CZ

I have had reliability problems with:
Kel Tec
Walther (PPK/s and TPH)

Because of political or attitude problems I would never again buy from:
S&W
Beretta

Remembering that pistols are just machines, I would buy from any of these manufacturers again but not from S&W or Beretta.

SkunkApe
July 21, 2003, 08:11 PM
Kel-tec: I've seen dime store squirt guns made better than my P32.

AMT: My first handgun was an AMT .380 backup, purchased on the advice of a gun magazine (article by Massad Ayoob, I think). Never once fired a full magazine.

HBK
July 21, 2003, 08:17 PM
I have had wonderful experiences with:
Walther (P-99, PPK/S)
Glock(29)(19)(20)

I would never again buy anything from:
EAA
Interarms(PPK/S)

firestar
July 21, 2003, 08:23 PM
I have had nothing but good luck with:
Beretta (92fs, 21A Bobcat)
Ruger ( two MKIIs, two Speed Sixes, Mini 14, P89, P95)
CZ (two 452s, 70)
S&W (M-19, M-36, M-63, M-17,M-586, M-27, 59)
Colt (Comander .45)
SIG (220)
Mossberg (500)
Remington (870)
Winchester (1300)
Charter Arms (Off Duty)
Walther (PP .32acp)

I have had some minor problems with most of my guns but they were easily fixed or fixed themself or I have not shot them enough to know.

I have had really bad and often repeat problems with certain guns and even out of these guns, there are only four companies that I would never buy from again. I don't just have one small problem and decide to never buy from a certain gun maker again, I just think some gun companies are not worth the risk.

Really bad guns that I have owned:
Ruger 10/22
Remington Nylon 77
Jennings J-22
Taurus PT-22
Kel-Tec P-32
Tec-9

The last four gun companies will never see another penny from me. Those last four guns are the worst I have ever owned and I have owned LOTS in my life.

digex
July 21, 2003, 08:41 PM
I can't think of any company that I would NEVER buy another gun from. I think I'm just extraordinarily lucky though. I've heard absolute horror stories about a company called "Hesse". I own one of their composite AR-15's and it shoots amazingly, without failure. Rugers are some of my all-time favorite rifles. Taurus has always provided me with exceptional value! Like I said, I must just be very lucky I guess.
YMMV
Tommy

Pocket Pistol
August 12, 2003, 03:54 PM
Never say never is true but if I did say never it would have to be Kel-Tec
Oh yea I did say never and I mean it :)

cool45auto
August 12, 2003, 04:03 PM
Hi Point was the only one I've had problems with.

willyjixx
August 12, 2003, 04:22 PM
why bother?

newman32
August 12, 2003, 04:26 PM
Taurus for their development and partnership with NJIT regarding the "Smart Gun".

RustyHammer
August 12, 2003, 04:30 PM
Ruger 22/45 ... was bad out of the box. Returned to gun store who promised to fix it. After 8 weeks, they gave me my money back it was so bad.

Jenning T-380 ... I knew it would be bad when I bought it ($50 NIB). Had never had a "cheap" gun and wanted to see what all the negative hype was about. It actually shot pretty well, for a POS gun. Still have it. Makes a nice paper weight! (Waiting for a gun buy back or something.)


Buy quality and keep it!

Rusty

Dorrin79
August 12, 2003, 05:04 PM
interesting to see so many votes for Ruger -

the three Rugers I own are all excellent guns

my only complaint is that my MKII Target had an extremely tight action when I bought it. Other than that (which has loosened with lots of shooting) it is extremely accurate and fun to shoot.

The only brand I'm irritated with is Kel-Tec - I recognize my P-11 as an engineering marvel, but it is very un-fun and difficult to shoot. Other people have had different (better) experiences, I'm sure.

casual
August 12, 2003, 05:07 PM
Pocket Pistol,

i think anyone who reads a forum such as the High Road knows that a
P-32 is bound to be ugly and rough around the edges, to say nothing of the inevitable rimlock

however, i think the well documented problems with the p-32 are outweighed by the fact that there is simply no substitute for the extremely small size, low weight and corresponding concealability

do i wish there was a better-built and prettier alternative to the P-32? yes

is there? no


on the original topic, in general, i agree with Rusty Hammer - buy quality -after doing your homework

i've never had such a bad gun that i would never purchase again from a particular company, however, i have greatly benefited from the posters on this forum who allow others to learn from their experiences and therefore i have avoided some of the real trouble gun makers

thank you gentlemen

casual

Detritus
August 12, 2003, 05:27 PM
(putting aside politics, which is like opinions and "rectal openings" [ie everyone has em and at least one person thinks everyone else's stink] )
i personally can not see where alot of the anti-Ruger stuff is comming from, are the people having these problems "lemon magnets" ?

rugers are statisicly one of the most, OTB reliable guns out there. i have experience with around 10 different rugers, and the ONLY one that has had any non shooter-induced problems is a near 40 year old (best we cna tell made within a year after the switch to the black grip eagles) Ruger auto. and most of the blame for the problems it has can be laid at the feet of problems getting affordable, deacent quality, early pattern mags for it (we've tried 3 or 4 times to order them, from the likes of midway, etc., but everytime someone screws up and sends MkII mags.

i know that for certain people don't get along with certain makes of guns, i personally have yet to have a colt made after ww2 work properly for me, and it seems the family is cursed with regards to GM made cars (saturn excluded).
but either the breakdown rate for ruger is being exagerated or i'm one lucky SOB in regards to gettign good rugers.

Shooter973
August 12, 2003, 06:17 PM
Llama: I bought one of their little 22's that looked like a 1911, and with in the first 50 rounds it had peened the firing pin into the slide and went full auto on me. Scared the crap out of me and it was a poor example of a handgun. I've never seen a Llama that I would even consider owning. :mad:

Erik Jensen
August 12, 2003, 06:22 PM
I'd love to buy a new S&W, but they don't make blued guns anymore, aside from a few custom and/or special edition wheelguns. so, I guess I won't be getting a new one anytime soon.

Gewehr98
August 12, 2003, 06:34 PM
And it ain't open for discussion.

MountainPeak
August 12, 2003, 06:47 PM
I posted about a 12 gun purchase I made from a guy getting rid of his collection. I think it was last March. One of the 12 was a 9mm Hi-Point carbine. I've put a couple of hundred rounds through it and my granddaughter must have put another 1000. NOT ONE problem. Not a gun I would have bought except in a bulk deal, but it does say that at least SOME Hi-Points ain't to bad. The guy had it listed at 90.00 in a goup of 13. I grouped 12 of them and gave a counter offer. Bought them, and this baby has been a keeper. Just the other side of the story.

MeekandMild
August 12, 2003, 08:16 PM
Winchester. A rifle with a bull barrel, plastic stock, fiberglass bedding and a Leupold should get smaller than a 2.5 inch group at 100 yards!

Bernedelli. This is Italy's answer to the Raven. Bought one of these total POS guns in 1980 and still mourn the waste of money. It probably wouldn't group 2.5 inches at 3 feet!!! It was the sort of gun you want to weld to a piece of steel to use as a boat anchor.

Josey
August 12, 2003, 10:47 PM
Hey I won't buy another Ruger 10/22 or MKII ever again. POJ! My RVs in 44-40 are great though. Bryco, Jennins, Lorcin, Kel-Tec and Heritage won't get anymore of my money either. My Davis derringer in 38 is a neat little pistol. 4 years of CAS sidematches and 0 problems. ASM is a big boat anchor candidate. They made some junk CAS firearms.

Monte Harrison
August 13, 2003, 09:09 AM
Not only for political reasons. Bought a 586 many years ago. The barrel wasn't crowned (it had a sharp ring of protruding metal at the muzzle), and the cylinder seized up. So I'll never buy a new S&W gun. I am, however, considering a nice C&R eligible model 1905 in .38 Special with 4 -inch barrel and round butt with the original hard rubber grips.

MarineTech
August 13, 2003, 11:46 AM
I will never buy another Taurus.

I owned 2 Taurus revolvers. Both developed problems in the first 60 days with less than 200 rounds through each. Add to the fact that it took 3 - 4 months for Taurus to finally admit there were problems and then make the repairs. Sold both of them off and won't buy another.

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