sig 220 or kimber covert or colt gov 1911


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oklahoma caveman
November 30, 2007, 10:45 PM
these are the 3 pistols that im interested in. itl be a ccw. need info and opinions please

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txgolfer45
November 30, 2007, 11:13 PM
Being full size handguns, have you considered how you will carry? I'd probably go with the Sig for concealed carry from the list.

10-Ring
December 1, 2007, 01:48 AM
Colt :D

Autolycus
December 1, 2007, 04:43 AM
Colt.

tbtrout
December 1, 2007, 06:50 AM
Sig P220

Jayb
December 1, 2007, 06:57 AM
Carry the one you're most proficient with.

okienate
December 1, 2007, 07:07 AM
Find out what fits you better. If you can shoot one of each and get the one that works best.

IMHO, of the three you listed, Kimber Covert is the best "bang" for your buck.

They may list at $1500, but I've see them (new) in shops around KC closer to $900 and under. Outdoor America usually has a couple on display and has some of the best deals on new Limbers in town. (Their other stuff is pretty much over-priced, but they seem to have a lock on Kimber distributorship....)

The guns have a superior coating on them, you get 3 choices a barrel length (3-4-5 inches available) AND you will already have the Tritium Night sights AND Crimson Trace laser grips on it when it comes out of the box.

All this, a bag of chips and there's more? Of course, the frame melt keeps this little bad boy from digging into your side when carrying it. And the aluminum frame helps keep the weight down. All in all not a bad carry piece. (I carry a Warrior which has all the same treatments except for the CT grips and I've had nothing but easy carry and good shooting from it....so I am a little biased.)

The 220 and Colt will both be solid pieces, but if you want the other whiz-bang add-ons, the Kimber is the way to go. (The final price will end up a wash after adding those onto the lesser priced handguns, CT grips running $200+ and night sights running $150+).

Nice to be able to choose from such a fine selection of handguns, isn't it?

Rexster
December 1, 2007, 07:20 AM
I had three Kimbers, and all three ended up being "project guns" to get them to work reliably, and one had to be used with only one high-end aftermarket magazine for it to feed properly. Colt Government Models have been good-luck pistols for me, once well broken-in with 500+ rounds of FMJ, and then tried with various JHPs to see what they liked. My SIG P220 worked 100% reliably from round one, and my present duty pistol, a P229 in .40, has been the same experience. If you have to ask, I would go with SIG.

Ala Dan
December 1, 2007, 08:07 AM
In my hands, I'd go with the SIG~! ;)

My old West German .45 caliber P220A was my "BACON SAVER"; in the
days of old, as my offical duty weapon~! :cool: :D

dstorm1911
December 1, 2007, 09:08 AM
totally depends on your experience level and what your comfortable with, I regularily carry a 1911 pattern gun locked and cocked but many people these days do not feel secure with a CCW in such a condition and end up opting to carry with an empty chamber for lack of confidence in their ability to safely carry a single action with one up the tube and for CCW thats pretty much how it needs to be carried. When I'm on my Harley I switch to either An XD 45 or a Taurus PT145 Milpro for added safty in the event of an accident etc...

you will need to decide what your skill level will allow you to confidently carry in a confrontation ready condition, you won't have time to be racking slides etc... if possible try the 3 choices from a concealment type holster and see which #1 fits your body best while concealed #2 you can draw and bring into action the smoothest. The fit to your body is very important as a CCW left at home because its too bulky, too heavy or because it has that lil edge that digs into your hip etc... will do ya very little good, one that you cannot present smoothly or that you fumble with will become a liability that can be taken away easily......... there is a huge difference between a great gun on the range and a great CCW gun ya need to keep that in mind and that you are looking for a CCW gun that you will have to carry constantly in a concealed state without compromising its concealment etc...

gcrookston
December 1, 2007, 09:26 AM
I like my 1911s so don't get me wrong, my vote: Sig

oklahoma caveman
December 1, 2007, 11:29 AM
ok so they all seem to have a certain following. why is it that you prefer the sig/colt/kimber?

wnycollector
December 1, 2007, 11:31 AM
Like Ala Dan I also have a west german SIG P220...it is the most reliable, accurate pistol I own. You will NEVER regret buying a SIG!

M2 Carbine
December 1, 2007, 11:54 AM
oklahoma caveman
ok so they all seem to have a certain following. why is it that you prefer the sig/colt/kimber?

Some years back Colt made such junk that I was completely turned off by them. Now days I don't even look at them at the gun shows.

For some reason I have never even shot a Sig.

Could be I'm missing something with the new Colts and Sig but I don't have the bug to buy either one. Maybe if I had some time with a Sig I'd have to have one.

I've had Kimbers for some years. Recently bought the Ultra Covert II. I'm a fan of the 3 inch guns.
As for the brand, I've got a LOT of handguns and I rate the Kimbers with the best.
After putting several hundred rounds through the Covert it looks like it will be a keeper to.

The Lone Haranguer
December 1, 2007, 01:11 PM
As an additional option/consideration, the SIG is available in a single-action, "cocked and locked" version with ambidextrous safety levers.

This would be my choice, despite the added bulk and the superfluous accessory rail. It will not have finicky functioning like the 1911s I own, one of which is a SIG. (The other is a Colt.) Unfortunate, but true.

oklahoma caveman
December 1, 2007, 01:40 PM
is the sig a sa and a da?

Exmasonite
December 1, 2007, 04:01 PM
i'd go with the sig b/c that's what i know best. haven't handled the other 2.

might want to add in a poll function to get a real idea of what people's thoughts are. then again, they're all very reliable, quality firearms so it'll probably come down to what feels better in your hand and you shoot the best.

AK103K
December 1, 2007, 04:20 PM
I've owned Kimbers, and had basically the same experience as Rexster.

I was an avid Colt fan since I got my first back in the early 70's and carried one daily for close to 30 years. If I ever go back to a 1911, it will be one of the three Colt Commanders in my safe.

I also have three P220's, two standard models and a Carry.

Given the choice, I'd take the SIG without hesitation. The reason being, it will come with what you need on it and work right out of the box. The problem with most 1911's these days is, they are hit or miss at best, and usually need "something" done to them to fill your needs. Colts are the best of the lot, but they too always seem to need "something".

Master Blaster
December 1, 2007, 04:39 PM
I have the opposite experience of you SIG fans, both of my Kimbers Series 1 custom classic target, and series 2 TLE, have been extremely reliable right out of the box. I have many thousand of rounds fired out of both kimbers, LSWC target loads, hollow points +p all with zero faileures or problems, out of the 40+ handguns I own My TLE would be my number 1 choice for self defense, and it is my nightstand gun.

My SIG P220 ST is the least reliable firearm I own, it still jams every 50 rounds or so after two trips back to SIG arms even on 230 grain ball. SIG arms customer service is horrible to deal with, the worst bar none. The p220 also now fails to lock back on an empty mag in addition to its jamming. The last time I called them, they told me I needed to find my old RMA for the last two trips or they would make me pay the shipping.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=192908

Friends don't let friends buy a new SIG.

AK103K
December 1, 2007, 05:10 PM
Well, we all know that all makers have a bad one now and then, and sorry to hear it, but it looks like you got one of SIG's.

I look at them all with suspicion these days until I see how well things go with them. I no longer buy Kimbers, Springfields or Glocks, and a few others, due to repetitive failures with their products. It one thing to have a problem with one gun, but when you keep getting new ones and they dont work, well, then I go elsewhere.

So far, SIG has been real good to me. Right now, I have 12, including a couple of used guns and even the "dreaded" Mosquito. They all have worked flawlessly, either new out of the box, or used from a private/dealer sale. As I said, they provide everythinng you need, right out of the box, all you need is ammo.

I've probably owned close to 20 Colts over the years, maybe more, (hey, I'm getting CRS :) ), they all pretty much worked right out of the box, and most of the newer ones with any type ammo. They all had good triggers and were accurate. I still always had to do "something" to them, be it sights, or change out the MSH and triggers, (personal preference, I like arched/short), but other than that, they worked. The problem with all the other 1911's is, they arent Colts. Many have their own ideas as to what a "spec" should be, and they all vary in material and QC. They may look like a 1911 of some sort, but thats about all they have in common.

oklahoma caveman
December 1, 2007, 05:27 PM
might want to add in a poll function to get a real idea of what people's thoughts are[QUOTE]
can somebody tell me how? im not very computer compatable

pablo45
December 1, 2007, 06:06 PM
Sig Sauer P220

Vito_Corleone
December 1, 2007, 06:08 PM
SIG if it's used. They are way too much new.

oklahoma caveman
December 1, 2007, 11:30 PM
SIG if it's used. They are way too much new

actually the sig is the cheapest of the 3. at least according to their websites although im sure they can be bought cheaper at some dealers.

The Lone Haranguer
December 1, 2007, 11:58 PM
is the sig a sa and a da?
They make those, but the one I am talking about is the P220 SAO.
http://www.sigsauer.com/Products/ShowCatalogProductDetails.aspx?categoryid=6&productid=151

It is more comparable to the single-action 1911s you are looking at.

oklahoma caveman
December 2, 2007, 01:13 AM
ok thx haranguer. im not sure yet what i want. i really like the look of the sig. iv never held 1 but it looks exceptionally comfortable. but then the 1911 have been around for a while for a reason

MICHAEL T
December 2, 2007, 01:20 AM
Colt LTW Commander or Defender . I also have new Agent All 3 are fine carry pistols. My Kimber stays in box Just not a Colt Pretty but nothing special

wnycollector
December 2, 2007, 10:43 AM
I think one of the best deals out that is buying a CPO (certified pre-owned) SIG P220...just like new but 1/2 the price of new!

AK103K
December 2, 2007, 10:53 AM
SIG if it's used. They are way too much new
Whats "way to much"? On average, my new SA/DA SIG's with night sights were $750.

Arent most of the Kimber Coverts in the $1000+ range?

Most of the used Colts are going to be in the NIB SIG range and up.

Pilot
December 2, 2007, 11:10 AM
Apples and oranges. The Sig 220 is a fine gun, but is DA/SA very unlike the SA 1911. Choose the type of platform you want first. For CCW in .45 ACP my choice would be a Colt lightweight Commander XSE but I am comfortable with C&L in a 1911.

AK103K
December 2, 2007, 12:52 PM
Apples and oranges, not really. The SA/DA P220 isnt as radically different as a SA 1911, as many will have you believe. I carried and shot 1911's my whole life and had no troubles what so ever switching to the straight DA SIG. I also have DAO SIG's, and they have not been an issue either.

I suppose this "might" be an issue if all you can shoot is a SA gun and are unwilling to learn a DA trigger. If you dont shoot one, and are willing to give it a couple of boxes of ammo, you'll soon see its a non issue. If anything, you'll become a more rounded shooter.

DakotaSig
December 2, 2007, 02:21 PM
My vote is for a P220 Carry SAS:
P220 Carry SAS (http://www.sigsauer.com/Products/ShowCatalogProductDetails.aspx?categoryid=37&productid=148)

Hunter0924
December 2, 2007, 05:53 PM
Colt.

Spartacus451
December 2, 2007, 08:16 PM
The new extractor design for the milled stainless slides has issues according to Bruce Gray. I have not had one in hand yet so I can't say why.

I would go for the Colt and then the Sig 220 in that order. You couldn't pay me to bring a gun with a Swartz style firing pin safety to a match. Defective by design.

zeroskillz
December 3, 2007, 12:42 PM
I think it's safe to say that Kimber is a mixed bag. It seems to run 50/50 as to reliability. If you go Kimber, get at least 500 rounds through it before you trust it. 'Course the same should be said for any gun really.

I'd go with the Sig (assuming you've tried it, and a 1911, and either will fit you nicely). Sigs are completely reliable, and a 220 goes for around $700 new shipped (at least from me). Sig also offers the 220 in three sizes, Full, Carry and Compact. the carry size seems to be the most popular for ccw. The Full Size and Carry are also offered in SAO versions, in addition to the standard DA/SA.

Regardless of the gun, I'd highly recommend a Milt Sparks VMII holster (IWB).
Unquestionably the most comfortable IWB holster I've ever tried. They've got a long wait, but it's definitely worth it,. Get something else to use til the VMII comes in. Sometimes you can find them from other dealers as wel, so if you do a little looking, you may not have to wait.

HTH
-Ted

kentucky_smith
December 3, 2007, 12:56 PM
I just picked up a police trade-in 220 from Bud's for $375 otd. It's a good shooter, I don't shoot it as good as my Kimber, but it's growing on me.

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