[Glock Glockler]

I'd much rather a 5.56 weapon than the Soviet calibers, but I do like the elegant, classic look of an AK. Has anyone played with these guns? It does not seem like they're that common here, too bad. I do want one though I'd rather not get a Vepr, too heavy and unbalanced, so what are the best ones?

Thanks

[BDM]

I have heard the AK 101 or 102 from AKUSA are good ,I have also heard that you can use AK74 mags with modified feed lips to work with .223,how to do the modification I dont know,I would think opening up the space between feed lips would be the way to go but I dont know how much,post back when you find a good .223AK that you can get mags for I would love to get one.








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"Governments are created to protect our inalienable rights,When it becomes destructive of these ends,It is the right of the people to alter or abolish it"

[vitiaz]

You can get one of the Romanian SAR-3's...if you can find them.

Global/ArsenalUSA is supposed to be releasing their '74 clones,
http://www.arsenalusa.com/

K-VAR has their SA-M5 (http://www.arsenalinc.com/products.html). KVAR also has parts kits if you want to go that route.

Or you can go with someone like Marc Krebs (http://www.krebscustom.com/)

The tough thing about the .223 AK's is finding mags...You can get .223 followers from Robinson Armaments (http://www.robarm.com/) for the EG bakelite mags. Otherwise try to track down the Bulgarian synthetics or EG Stg-940 steel magazines.

Just my $0.02 worth...

[Dr.Rob]

Even a Norinco mak 90 or Ak 84 S is hardto find these days.

However, they are well made, stone simple but a few things on the Norinco rifles:

223 AK's are NOISY. Really noisy. don't know why but the muzzle report is LOUD compared to a 223 AR.

The Norinco has a chromed barrel/chamber. That's a good thing.

Mags are available, but pricier than std. AK mags. $30-40 for a 30 rd Norinco mag is standard.

The 84s/mak90 has a spring-loaded firing pin that is WEAK, which means the 223 AK will slam fire, sometimes it can slam fire by closing the bolt. The fix is a new spring and its cheap, but lighting off 4 rounds when you meant to fire one is NOT something big brother appreciates. I am NOT aware of other 223 AK's with this problem.

Most AK74 mags will work if you only load 20 rounds in them, without changing the follower at all.

[MiniZ]

I guess it depends on what you want to spend. Excluding the VEPR, I would look at the Krebs or an Arsenal rifle.

the SAR 3s work, but are scarce in relative terms. They are relatively cheap, but there are some issues. The hammers have a tendancy to be soft, and the bolt is unique to the .223 variant. I don't even know if spare parts are available.

The Norinco/Polytech offerings are also pretty scarce, but a fine rifle. The downside other than scarcity is the mag issue. The Chicom take a unique mag as Dr. Rob stated.

[telewinz]

I have the Valmet and Norinco folders in .223 caliber. By far and away getting extra Valmet mags is a more difficult and expensive chore. I had to pay $50 each and that was a bargain!. The Norinco mags show up all the time (CDNN) and they can be had for less than half that price and they are much better made. Unless you are a "collector" your wallet would be better off with the SAR in 223. Its fit and finish may not be as good as the other two brands mentioned but its good enough and priced right, at least for now. I never had any luck with the AK74 mags, I just grit my teeth and got the Norinco mags for $20 each, again they will last a lifetime. The muzzle blast/flash is about the same as my 16 inch oly "plinker" with the 16 inch barrel, it gets people's attention.:D I have never had a problem with slam fire, heck it might be fun.

[762x51]

Another recommendation for AK-USA......great work and Chris is a great guy to deal with. He is building a custom AK-101 for me now that will use converted black Bulgarian AK-74 mags. Basically it is just a 74 mag with a Robarm follower and a little bit of work on the feed lips. There are instructions over on AK-47.net on how to do it yourself.

AK-USA - http://www.ak-103.com

[Kestryll]

I have a Norinco NHM-90 in 5.56, it has been a very good rifle.
Everyone says to change the trigger group to a U.S. made one but I can't bring myself to touch it, it's too nice!
Recent situations have inclined me to trade it for a different rifle but I haven't heard from the other party in a little while so I don't know what is going to happen. to be honest I was delayed in responding to him as well before so no judging just a comment.
Anyways it looks like this one and the norincos are nice!
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid71/p121eb1fafe6455ea2fe6fad6e5828469/fb9cb98c.jpg

[CWL]

Two other options are Isreali Galil rifles and Korean Daewoo K-D series rifles.

Both are great battle rifles based on AK & M16 technologies.

Your only problem is availability of parts.

[Correia]

I don't find the Vepr heavy or ungainly. It is heavier than most AKs, but it shoots really well. And rather than ungainly, I would say that it balances forward, which some of us prefer.

[MiniZ]

Heavier is a matter of perception, especially when you are the size of a Wookie like Correia!!

[B27]

There are also preban Polytechs in .223 that are out there in reasonable numbers.
I have been happy with mine for almost twenty years...

http://www.fototime.com/D373720310D677A/standard.jpg

Mags do require a bit of searching on the net but are quite obtainable.:)
I'm convinced that if I keep at it long enough I'll get bakelite 5.45 mags to work in it.

http://www.fototime.com/E70717E6D4470D3/standard.jpg

http://www.fototime.com/5611857AEFED159/standard.jpg

[MiniZ]

B27, it is absolutely appaling how CLEAN your bench is!:eek:

[B27]

You should see it after cleaning a half dozen handguns.
It looks like an explosion in an oily rag factory.:D
Those benchtops were salvaged from a dental lab that closed down. I don't know what they are made of but no matter what awful gun cleaning or gun tinkering substance I spill on them it just wipes right off.

[Grump]

I've just finished a bit of hands-on research into making a Valmet M76 jammamatic work. The Valmet mag would feed best but would hang at the front while inserting. The Galil mag would send the rounds into the back of the barrel about 1/4-inch below the chamber. The Chinese mag always worked. Go figure.

They all work now.

I just can't use thrice-fired brass because it pulls them apart at about 1 inch from the casehead, on extraction. No danger because the rear case walls still seal the chamber from residual pressure, but it's a real annoyance.

In my area, I saw lotsa Chinese, Galil and plastic AK74 (some/most? modified for .223) at the last gun show for $35 or less apiece. Next gun show is in Oct.--anyone want to place an order?

BTW, I am very impressed with the 3 MOA accuracy EVERY TIME, using cheapo ball ammo, that this little carbine gives us. 18-inch barrel and a real peep sight at the rear.:cool:

[vitiaz]

Grump,
"The Galil mag would send the rounds into the back of the barrel about 1/4-inch below the chamber."

Be careful using Galil mags in Valmets...Check w/ Tony at Tromix
( http://www.tromix.com/Welcome.htm ) . If you notice the Galil and Valmet mags have followers that are mirror images of each other. Even though the Galil mags seat/fit fine the angle they are stripped into the chamber is different. As you noticed the cartridge can jam into the back of the barrel. If
the bullets get pushed backed into the case you can end up with an over pressure situation and a ka-boom. If you are using military ammo which is crimped you might be able to get away with it...but be careful if using handloads.

Just a thought...

[Grump]

We've never had a high-pressure excursion as you've described. After about 3/16 deeper seating, the ogive clears the back of the case neck and the blow-by past the bullet bleeds pressure down to nominal levels. The deeper seating possible before that point is too small a percentace of the total case volume to be a problem, IME.

That's also at up to 110°F using H335 a nd WW748, both reputed to be temperature-sensitive powders.

I've found a magazine mod which will allow the Galil mag to work.:)

[clubsoda22]

Arsenal SAM5 is the best .223 AR in existance, period. Just like the SAM7 is the best 7.62x39 ak in existance, period.

[762x51]

In your opinion. ;)

[B27]

What 762x51 said.:D

[Glock Glockler]

Ok, gentlemen, who does make the best AKs in various calibers?

[telewinz]

Its hard to beat a Valmet, I have never fired a Surface to Air Missile 5 (SAM5:D ) but they do look well made.

[762x51]

Ok, gentlemen, who does make the best AKs in various calibers?

In MY opinion.....

For milled recievers in any caliber, go with Arsenal Inc. They are very well made guns, I just personally do not like their muzzle brake and am not big on milled receivers.

For stamped receivers in 7.62x39 and .223, AK-USA's AK-103 and AK-101 are awesome. Krebs 103's and 101's and Global's SSR's are also top of the heap.

For stamped 5.45x39 a custom build from one of the demilled Bulgarian kits that are around now with a properly heat treated Ohio Ordnance reciever is the best way to go. AK-USA will be doing mine when I'm ready. In Range C2 and Krebs also do primo work. Get a kit while you still can.....mine came from K-Var the other day and it is new and all matching numbers. Beautiful.

[goon]

Arsenal SAM5 is the best .223 AR in existance, period. Just like the SAM7 is the best 7.62x39 ak in existance, period.

My SAM-7 works, but it came from the factory with the rear sight base machined out of square.
It really made me mad.
Supposedly the best post-ban AK and this is what I get.
The SAR I had was even straighter than that.
It does work, but there is little that can make an AK not work.
I did take it up with the factory, and I was told to send the gun back and they would fit another sight to the gun. How is a sight going to fix a problem with the RSB?
I immediately decided that I would be better off to just put an adjustable Gordon Tech sight on it, and I did.
The gun is zeroed, I have settled down and am happy with it, and I now know that the Arsenal name is just as much hype as anything else.
I will look at the next Arsenal AK I am interested in VERY CLOSE before I lay my cash down for it.
I don't buy guns just to send them back to the factory to be repaired.