Big guns and light loads


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lotsunsold
December 1, 2007, 03:17 PM
Has anyone had a problem with a Large gun and light powder charge?

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scrat
December 1, 2007, 03:29 PM
depends on how you do it and what kind of gun. it can be dangerous as it will increase case pressure. Again it depends on what shell and gun. i have found that trail boss is excellent on light loads. it fills the case properly and gives you a nice low recoil load.

rcmodel
December 1, 2007, 03:56 PM
What Large gun? And what light charge?

Are you asking about rifles, shotguns, pistols, revolvers?

So many questions, so little time!

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rcmodel

lotsunsold
December 1, 2007, 03:58 PM
I had bad luck with a smith 500 and Titegroup powder.16.5 gr Rainer Ballistics 335 grain FMJ-Flatpoint bullets .2.035" OAL.

rcmodel
December 1, 2007, 04:12 PM
Well, what kind of bad luck?

You are not giving us much to work with here!

BTW: Your load sounds reasonable, but certainly not light using plated jacket bullets by any means.

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rcmodel

lotsunsold
December 1, 2007, 04:18 PM
I need to take some pictures and post them. the 500 is rated at more than a ton and a quarter of muzzle energy and the cylinder is proofed to 71,000 psi.I am trying to figure how a light load can generate that much juice.

Starter52
December 1, 2007, 04:39 PM
I've had a minor problem with .45/70 loads using 2400 powder. The powder charge wouldn't stay down near the primer. A small bit of Dacron wadding solved the problem.

rcmodel
December 1, 2007, 05:16 PM
You are hitting a heavy, soft, plated bullet with a pretty sizable load of very fast pistol powder. That is not a light load.

The pressure spike could well be enormous before it can get the bullet moving down the barrel.

But you still haven't told us what happened.
Did your S&W blow up or what?

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rcmodel

Kimber1911_06238
December 1, 2007, 05:31 PM
plated bullets aren't the best with upper range loads of fast burning powder....what happened?

hsiddall
December 1, 2007, 05:58 PM
Dude, Im all for keeping posts short and sweet but nobody has a clue how to help you if you dont tell the story or give more details as to wha tthe problem was...:banghead:

Kimber1911_06238
December 1, 2007, 07:23 PM
So did you kb ur 500 or not?

lotsunsold
December 1, 2007, 07:24 PM
rcmodel yes split the cylinder in two and pealed the top strap back.This my 20 or 21st load at this spec I shot with this gun.I have shot s&w & corbon rounds belive me this is a light load by comparsion.Kimber1911 Idon't like the taste of lead that is why I choose Rainer.Starter 52 Thank you ,that is one of the possiable options.A burn from front to back.The bore was clean and every round but the last one made a neat hole in the center of the target(7 rounds that day then boom)hsidall dude I am still not sure if I should involve Smith in this or not.I am sure their first words will be "sorry no handloads".

Roswell 1847
December 1, 2007, 07:42 PM
Check the inside of the cylinder and the bore for a missing chunk of steel.
I've heard of a defective barrel shedding a chunk of the bore surface which then blocked the bore at the next shot.
Thats about all I can figure might have happened unless you double charged that last case.

If it did happen the missing chunk would have broken away near the forcing cone, or at the chamber mouth otherwise the cylinder would not have split.

This is a very rare occurance with modern metalurgy. Only photos I've seen of this sort of barrel failure was an old mauser.


Another possiblity is a blown through bullet.
In such a case the bullet hangs in the bore or chamber mouth and the center of the slug is pushed out leaving a cylinder of jacket material or lead which jamms on the next slug fired.

Only light charge problem I've ever had was when incomplete ignition caused a half jacket 160 gr .38 to shed its jacket which remained in the muzzle while the core when on to hit far below the target.
I felt the lack of recoil and caught the situation before firing again. A too hard primer and light hammer strike caused that one.

rcmodel
December 2, 2007, 06:00 PM
rcmodel yes split the cylinder in two and pealed the top strap back.Nothing of that nature could/would have happened with the load you were using.

I would suspect a squib load stuck a bullet in the forcing cone, or just into the rifling. (no powder)

The next normal shot is what took the gun apart.

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rcmodel

pinkymingeo
December 2, 2007, 07:15 PM
Send it to S&W. There are some amazing stories of damage they'll fix under warranty. You might get a new gun out of it, and have nothing to lose.

Kimber1911_06238
December 2, 2007, 07:21 PM
I'm with rcmodel....doesn't seem like you have enough powder to grenade a 500. sure there wasn't a squib or barrel obstruction?

Just for the record, I like plated bullets too....but using a slower burning powder is safer

EddieCoyle
December 2, 2007, 07:47 PM
I know of a a guy that blew one up with a smaller charge than what you were using, and I almost had it happen to me. Those bullets shouldn't be run faster than about 1200 fps with that powder (for the record, I use 13 grains of Titegroup under a 335gr plated bullet that gets me to 1200 fps out of a 4" barrel). I'm going to assume that you roll crimped the rounds too. Keep in mind that there's no cannelure on those bullets.

Here's what happened to me:

I recently loaded some of these bullets with Titegroup. They were a bit hot (about 1500 fps) and I forgot to reset my crimp die from the roll crimp I was using on some other bullets and H110. I made ten rounds and took them to the range to try out. Everything felt and sounded fine. However, when I opened the cylinder, I found a ring of copper 'jacket' stuck in the forcing cone. One more shot, and it would have been the end of that revolver. You've got to use a taper or very light roll crimp on those bullets, and keep them under 1200 fps. They won't hold up if you try to run them faster.

If you have any rounds left, try pulling a couple of bullets and taking a look under the crimp. If there's a big indentation, or if you can see lead, then that's your problem.

Is it possible that you had a double charge? You easily can fit a double (or even triple) charge of Titegroup into a .500 case.

In a .500, a no-powder squib load will barely get the bullet out of the case. It would never get it far enough into the barrel to allow the cylinder to turn for a follow up shot

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