best all-around rifle in .308


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judaspriest
December 1, 2007, 11:19 PM
I understand it's a somewhat goofy question, but I am going to ask anyway. I am looking for one rifle that would be a jack of all trades - an competent performer in all categories, even if it doesn't shine in any single one of them. I.e:

- rugged / reliable (vital)
- quick follow-ups (hence bolts are out)
- decent accuracy to 300-400 yards, usable to 500 or so
- usable with iron sights and scope (QD / see-through)
- can be used for hunting if necessary, self-defense
- the one rifle you would want to have by your side in a long-term survival situation

I have already picked the caliber, .308 (as a reasonable all-around choice). Initially, I thought I had made my choice - an M1A for about $1500-2K tops, but as the expected costs keep climbing (esp. for forged-receiver with good scope mount, etc), I am starting to have second thoughts. I am now trying to consider sporting pumps such as the Remington 7600 or semi-autos such as Browning BAR as well as perhaps even the lever-actions.

I was wondering what people think about my dilemma?

Thanks,

JP

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.38 Special
December 1, 2007, 11:51 PM
I drank the Kool-Aid, but I think Jeff Cooper's scout rifle is what you are looking for. Yes, it's a bolt, but bolt guns can be manipulated with "startling alacrity". I strongly doubt that the lever or pump guns are as fast as a trained man at the bolt.

CA357
December 1, 2007, 11:53 PM
Dsa Fal

MassMark
December 1, 2007, 11:59 PM
Stick with your initial gut, combine .38Special's advice and go with an M1A Scout. The forward rail is perfect for a Leupold, Burris or Nikon scout scope set-up. No extra mounts to buy - use throwlever rings so you can go to irons quickly if need be. Springfield Armory's cast receivers are GTG - your children's children's children will not shoot it out.....You will absolutely be stellar at the ranges you describe....

dstorm1911
December 2, 2007, 12:01 AM
FAL or L1A1 designed and built for the worst in battle field conditions, capable of super tight accuracy with quality ammo, adjustable gas system......... commonly reffered to as "The right arm of the free world" for a reason, unlike many other military 7.62x51 based battle rifles the FAL/L1A1 pattern has zero issues with heavy hunting load .308 win or standard NATO 7.62X51 due to the tunable gas system ya can dial it in for any ammo on hand to feed it....

Mags are cheap (around $6 ea for metric pattern, $19 for Inch pattern)

New basic military configuration STG58s from Enterprise arms at $899 up to a higher end DSA all USA built paratrooper (folding stock, 16" barrel etc...) around $1500

Tons of aftermarket goodies to set it up exactly as ya want

500 yards is a cake walk for the cartridge and the gun both with optics

Enterprise arms

http://www.entreprise.com/fal_rifles.html


DSA Arms

http://www.dsarms.com/

aloharover
December 2, 2007, 12:35 AM
FAL

http://www.evil-black-rifles.com/images/builds/308ebrs.jpg

http://www.evil-black-rifles.com/images/builds/falcarbs.jpg

Brother in Arms
December 2, 2007, 12:59 AM
if I was going to buy a .308 rifle fitting your specifications for a reasonable cost I would get a Saiga .308

here are your specs:
- rugged / reliable (vital)
- quick follow-ups (hence bolts are out)
- decent accuracy to 300-400 yards, usable to 500 or so
- usable with iron sights and scope (QD / see-through)
- can be used for hunting if necessary, self-defense
- the one rifle you would want to have by your side in a long-term survival situation

-rugged and reliable is the AK platforms first and middle name.
-quick Follow up shots are not a problem as it is semi-automatic.
-decent accuracy 300-400 yards and usable to 500 or so.
-all Saiga .308 rifles have a side mounted optics rail that is QD and could be see through depending on scope mount style you choose.
-can be used for hunting and self defense
-One rifle I would be comfortable with in long term survival situation.

Here are some of the Saiga .308's benefits. Proven system, simple to maintain and operate, excellent all around caliber many accessories and customization options available. Very affordable compared to other semi-automatic battle rifles ($350 base cost). It is available in 16" and 21" chrome lined barrels so you can have a full length rifle or carbine that is easy to clean and maintain. It can be used in standard configuration or converted to use a pistol grip and AK butt stock if you choose to. Eastern bloc optics available for this rifle are tougher than nails, work well and are cost effective. The rifle accepts most AK accessories.

here are some of its draw backs:
Magazines are synthetic and are only 8 round ( but easily converted to 10 round) Recently a company is selling after market hi capacity 20 round magazines but they sell for about $50 a piece. But the 8 round magazines are $30-35 a piece.

Original butt stock isn't my favorite it is hollow and is light weight it feels a little cheap. But the worse thing is the distance of the hand from the trigger and safety lever. ( a thumb hole or skeleton stock is now available and requires no conversion and its is extremely sturdy.)

Lacks a muzzle device. Saiga .308 rifles do not have a muzzle device (or threads for a one) so a flash hider muzzle break, is not easily attached . (Though they can be fitted with one by a gunsmith if you so desire.)

no on board cleaning kit or cleaning rod or bayonet lug. Not serious but possible draw backs depending on your opinions.

So here is basic rifle with a few useful accessories

Saiga .308 rifle $350
2-8 round mags$ 65
PSOP 4X24mm $125
sling $ 10

Total $550 given average prices of a basic rifle and accessories. I have seen several used Saiga .308 in my area with some accessories in the $300 range. Seldom though do they have spare magazines they usually must be ordered online. Ammunition will be the greatest cost of any .308 battle rifle so I would buy a saiga .308 and with money I save buy reloading equipment so you afford to become very proficient with it.

Brother in Arms

judaspriest
December 2, 2007, 11:11 AM
Thanks guys for the input.

Saiga and FAL are very fine choices indeed, but I forgot to mention one more thing that eliminates the FAL and likely Saiga as well - I live in a socialist-run state that branded them both "assault rifles" and banned. Otherwise, both would be very high on my choice list...

mikec
December 2, 2007, 12:02 PM
Which state? If it is CT, then they had a name ban, right? You can't own a FN FAL or anything that has the name FAL on the receiver, right? However a clone not named in the ban was OK based on posts on the FALFiles. I don't know MA's rules. NY also allows FALs.

judaspriest
December 2, 2007, 12:19 PM
The People's Republic of Neu Jersey

glockman19
December 2, 2007, 12:22 PM
I like the M1A. Get a Loaded model or the Scout. SOCOM has to much stuff attached. very heavy.

mikec
December 2, 2007, 12:54 PM
I know that ARS has shipped FALs to NJ. Any gun you buy will still have the silly 15 round mag rule. Are all FALs a no no or just FN FALs? Is this a new law? Back in '01 or '02 FALs were OK in NJ.

gunnie
December 2, 2007, 12:57 PM
if "mikec" is right, i'd suggest an FAL non-named unit. otherwise the M1A seems your option, though not my personal choice. many feel otherwise, and i have no problems with their personal choice. it IS a good system.

bummer about living in the com-bloc held north east coast, bud. they haven't usurped the right to move yet, have they?

gunnie

PS---yet more PERSONAL OBSERVATIONS from gunnie:

everybody's stirring and they're packing up their goods
buying 'em a pickup truck and heading for the woods
it's a strange wind blowing

you can see 'em on the freeway with a u-haul tucked behind
running from the cities for a little peace of mind
where are they going


so the peasant left the castle walls and struck out on his own
and all he had was on his back and he felt so all alone
when he was leaving

'cause the road it is yer enemy and the road it is yer friend
it's there the day the journey starts and there the day it ends
no time for greiving


the ancients left their mark behind in most every way they could
they warned us not to be like this and always knew we would
and now it's falling

my cabin door has cracks in it and they let the north wind in
at night the wailing of a wolf you wonder where he's been
and who he's calling

judaspriest
December 2, 2007, 02:23 PM
The current law (http://www.state.nj.us/njsp/info/pdf/firearms/njac-title13-ch54.pdf) (though, unconstitutional to any unbiased reader) states the following "'Assault firearms' means ..... FN-FAL, FN-LAR or FN-FNC type semi-automatic firearms" and then after the full list of any decent rifle known to man, "Any firearm manufactured under any designation which is substantially identical to any of the firearms listed in
paragraph (1) above"

Hence, it would seem to me that any FAL clone is banned and so is Saiga (since the AK is prominently on the list, of course)

gunnie
December 2, 2007, 05:31 PM
judaspriest,

would a fixed/non removable magazine fall between the cracks, as it does in the P.R.O.C.?

see:

http://www.dsarms.com/prodinfo.asp?number=SA58CCAL

gunnie

Acheron
December 2, 2007, 05:32 PM
F
A
L

That's all there is to it.

RLsnow
December 2, 2007, 05:47 PM
G3....why? CUS ITS FROM HK!!!

no really...G3 is your man....

gunnie
December 2, 2007, 06:28 PM
while i really dislike the HK 91, due to poor human engineering, these have the same internals/action as that mdl. the 91 is a VERY reliable weapon, and maybe the 770 has a decent trigger. perhaps others reading this posting can expand on this as i have no experience with that model. The 770 centerfire series used a roller locked action as did the SL6/SL7 which had shorter barrels and a less traditional stock style.

the outward appearance of these could even fool the clintons. maybe N.J. as well?

see same @:

http://www.gunsamerica.com/976944754/Guns/Rifles/Heckler-Koch-Rifles/Sporting-Hunting/Heckler_Koch_Model_770.htm

gunnie

possum
December 2, 2007, 06:35 PM
i would still lean toward the ma and that would be my first choice even after reading your post, i agree with the above poster, either the scout or the loaded model, i personally want the scout.

chris in va
December 2, 2007, 06:40 PM
You can buy a Saiga 308 in Jersey. I was in Jersey City recently having a priceless old 38 transferred to where I live in VA, and they had one for sale in their gun rack.

I think the 'ban' you're referring to is a firearm with 'evil' features such as a pistol grip. The Saiga doesn't have that. Semiauto sporting/hunting rifle.

Here's the store in JC I saw the Saiga.
http://www.casosguns.com/

havanatrader
December 2, 2007, 06:42 PM
DPMS LR-308
It'll do anything you ask of it. Very accurate.

GunTech
December 2, 2007, 06:53 PM
M1A scout, then mount an Ultimak rail and your optics will be coincident with the irons. FNs are OK, but a tuned M1A will shoot rings around an FAL, and it's pretty easy to get a 4.5# match trigger on an M1A. You can buy a Rader trigger that will go down under 1# if you don't mind spending $250.

I am currently converting my 'Loaded' to a scout configuration. In it's current guise, it weighs more than I would like, but will deliver an honest 1 MOA out to 600. I'm hoping for 2 MOA or better with a 18 inch standard bbl.

BTW, I believe the M1A is legal in all 50 states. You may have to swap out the flash hider for a muzzle brake.

judaspriest
December 2, 2007, 08:06 PM
Gunnie, I am not sure about the 770 - hard to find any feedback on it. Do like the inconspicuous looks of it though, you're right it might survive even Madame Hellary's reign.

The CA-kosher DSA FAL might be an option as well, I need to call some local gun lawyers to find out. Appreciate the tip

AR clones I am not too keen on, sorry guys - I know it can be quite accurate (more than I need), but it's got its issues that I'd rather not deal with in exchange for the extra accuracy I don't need.

JP

W.E.G.
December 2, 2007, 09:52 PM
http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd7/rkba2da/rifle%20pics/Hampton-Varela-04-1.jpg

rangerruck
December 3, 2007, 12:07 AM
for wood, go with cz, for all else, go either Savage, Howa, or Tikka.
the last 3 have a little bit of this , a little bit of that, you just have to see
which tweaks you like best...

Anteater1717
December 3, 2007, 12:40 AM
How about a Remington 7600 pump?

http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/centerfire_rifles/model_7600.asp
http://www.remingtonle.com/rifles/7600.htm

lencac
December 3, 2007, 02:16 AM
A JLD PTR 91 which is an American made HK91/G3 might be an option.
I have one for sale with a ton of stuff to go with it.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=86510938

Wolfgang2000
December 3, 2007, 10:57 AM
A scoped M1A with the proper mount is hard to beat. I hunted with one for many years. That said, in a weal moment I sold it. I now have a Enterprise built FAL "Scout". The trigger is not as good as the match M1A, but it is good enough, and the shorter barrel is a lot handier in the woods. Also the ergonomics of the FAL makes it easier to handle, thus "fells" lighter.

If I had to have only 1 rifle it would be one of the above.

My favorite hunting rifle is a BLR in 308. It's handy, easy to carry, (and it's the older all steel model), very accurate, and has a detachable magazine. Yet it slides under the radar in the "peoples republic states".

TexasRifleman
December 3, 2007, 11:06 AM
M1A/M14 for sure.

My PTR 91 is indestructible but uncomfortable to shoot and it and the FAL look to "unpolitically correct" (yes i know thats not a word).

Normally I actually prefer to look that way, but there are times when going under the radar is nice.

Wood stocks and no pistol grips seem to be acceptable for whatever bizarre reason as far as not scaring the "sheep".

atek3
December 3, 2007, 12:03 PM
I love my FAL but it isn't a "perfect 308". The problem is mainly weight, the basic rifle with a scope is a pig. If i had the cash I'd go for a lightweight stock, aluminum lower, 18" bbl, and a compact scope. My current setup weighs 12 lbs with scope, way too heavy for a non-long range rifle.

atek3

Deer Hunter
December 3, 2007, 12:35 PM
My FAL weighs around 11 pounds, loaded, with a scope. I don't find it to be heavy at all. Firearm weight, in my experience, is very subjective.

atek3
December 3, 2007, 05:27 PM
Hmm, I'd say that firearms weight is very objective... you put it on a scale and weigh it... what's subjective is your appreciation of the weight. Given that most average rifles weigh between 6 and 10, 11-12 pounds is a lot, especially if it's not a safe queen and you actually have to carry it...

atek3

SpeedAKL
December 3, 2007, 05:38 PM
The M1A is beast, but if you don't want to shell out quite that amount of money an Armalite AR-10 or other .308 AR derivative would do well...they're very accurate and easy to use. An FAL or PTR-91 would certainly be good guns to look at as well.

Deer Hunter
December 3, 2007, 05:47 PM
Atek, I have two shotguns. One weighs 6 pounds. The other weighs 16 pounds. I have a skewed sense of what's "heavy" (and what "recoil" is, that 6 pound gun is a 12 gauge). Also, the FAL was my first centerfire rifle I actually purchases. After that, a Mosin. When I bought my Saiga .223, it was downright light.

judaspriest
December 3, 2007, 10:52 PM
Aren't these all bolts or am I missing something? A bolt is nice but too specialized, a semi-auto is what I am looking for

TexasRifleman
December 3, 2007, 11:07 PM
Aren't these all bolts or am I missing something? A bolt is nice but too specialized, a semi-auto is what I am looking for

FALs, PTRs, and M1As are pretty much all I've seen discussed here.

Frankly if you don't know whether those 3 rifles are bolt or semi maybe you should hold off on the shopping.......

Seriously, no offense intended. If that is really where your knowledge level is at you should hold on to your money for a while. You're likely to make a big mistake without a lot more information.

Greg Bell
December 3, 2007, 11:17 PM
H&K 417. But you will have to wait a few years.

The HK91 is probably the most brutally reliable .308 you will find. Some find its ergonomics bad but, hey I think they are better than the M1as which has the safety IN THE TRIGGER GUARD!!! and has, otherwise, a similar mag and charging system to the AK (the AK and the M1a (obviously) are highly derivative of the Garand). The HK91's safety isn't as well placed as the fal, but you won't need to leave it on because the trigger weighs 10 pounds. Oh, and you will need baboon arms to work the 91's charging handle.

The FAL never did much for me, the ergos are the best of the three, but I have never found one with a trigger I could stand. The HK91's trigger stinks too now that I think of it.

In the end, I chose to get the M1A scout. Why, because I am getting patriotic in my old age. Oh, and scope mounting on the M1a is unnecessarily complicated to, so look forward to that.

TexasRifleman
December 3, 2007, 11:19 PM
e HK91 is probably the most brutally reliable to your shoulder .308 you will find.

Fixed it for you :evil:

Greg Bell
December 3, 2007, 11:23 PM
Bah, yo are from Texas, you could shoot .375 H&H out of a derringer! Seriously, all 308s are pussycats. Even my uber-lightweight Steyr Scout is a joy to shoot.

TexasRifleman
December 3, 2007, 11:24 PM
Bah, your from Texas, you could shoot .375 H&H out of a derringer!

Still wouldn't hit as hard as a G3...... But you are right, they are indestructible.

TexasRifleman
December 3, 2007, 11:25 PM
.......

W.E.G.
December 3, 2007, 11:39 PM
http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd7/rkba2da/rifle%20pics/paraFALsmaller.jpg

Deer Hunter
December 4, 2007, 12:54 AM
When Pterodactyl season opens up this spring, my FAL or Remington 1740 gets the nod.

stubbicatt
December 4, 2007, 08:28 AM
Texas Rifleman says: My PTR 91 is indestructible but uncomfortable to shoot

How so TR? :scrutiny: Mine has some modifications to it, but it is hands down the most comfortable rifle to shoot I own. The recoil impulse is a bit stout, come to think of it. Maybe that's why I installed a muzzle brake on mine! :evil:

The PTR series is a neat rifle, and with a $55 Bill Springfield trigger job, a very shootable platform. That said, I guess mine has been modified to ameliorate the recoil impulse, to improve accuracy and ergonomics. The safety was a concern to me as one could hardly get to it with the right thumb, so I installed a Williams ambi safety which is easy to manipulate with the right trigger finger.

Come to think of it, maybe the Saiga is the better choice for out of the box performance. ;)

stubbicatt
December 4, 2007, 08:40 AM
Texas Rifleman says: My PTR 91 is indestructible but uncomfortable to shoot

How so TR? :scrutiny: Mine has some modifications to it, but it is hands down the most comfortable rifle to shoot I own. The recoil impulse is a bit stout, come to think of it. Maybe that's why I installed a muzzle brake on mine! :evil:

The PTR series is a neat rifle, and with a $55 Bill Springfield trigger job, a very shootable platform. That said, I guess mine has been modified to ameliorate the recoil impulse, to improve accuracy and ergonomics. The safety was a concern to me as one could hardly get to it with the right thumb, so I installed a Williams ambi safety which is easy to manipulate with the right trigger finger.

Come to think of it, maybe the Saiga is the better choice for out of the box performance. ;)

TexasRifleman
December 4, 2007, 08:41 AM
How so TR?

The operating system of the HK doesn't reduce any recoil at all, so you have that massive chunk of metal in the bolt slamming backwards and the stock butt pad isn't much. It's the nature of the G3s too that the ergonomics are not the best.

Don't get me wrong, I love my PTR91, it's an extremely well built copy and I enjoy shooting it a lot, but it hits the shoulder harder than any semi I own between the recoil and the ergonomics.

I would not remove it from my list of possible choices though, just be aware of it. As you say there are 3 or 4 things that need to be done right out of the box...... I need the trigger job on mine.

SlamFire1
December 4, 2007, 09:45 AM
The operating system of the HK doesn't reduce any recoil at all, so you have that massive chunk of metal in the bolt slamming backwards and the stock butt pad isn't much. It's the nature of the G3s too that the ergonomics are not the best.

Don't get me wrong, I love my PTR91, it's an extremely well built copy and I enjoy shooting it a lot, but it hits the shoulder harder than any semi I own between the recoil and the ergonomics.

I purchased a PTR end of October and I can second that it has a harder recoil than my Garands, FN's, or M1a's. And my buttstock is too short. Lots of creep in the trigger, hard to cock the action, and the rear sight is a pain to adjust when zeroing the rifle. I shot my PTR after a "Garand" match, this Saturday, and I was flinching more after 10 rounds with it, than after 58 rounds with my match 30-06 Garand.

The PTR91 excels in ease of manufacture and ease of maintenance. It is first and foremost a battle rifle. It would be a great rifle to hand marginally trained troops, whose life expectancy is NTE 9 months. It is simple to operate, it will go bang.

The absolute best semi auto rifle for iron sight and scope use is the M1a. A match accuratized M1a is MOA accurate all the way to 1000 yards. You can put in a 5, 10, or 20 round mag, makes it easy to carry. The rear sights are the best ever put on a battle rifle. The trigger is easy to tune, lots of instructions on the web. The scope position is higher than a bolt gun, but there are mounts that allow you to see your irons, if you want.

The Remington semi autos are functional, cheap, but not that accurate. But they are popular for hunting in heavy brush where a 100 yard shot is a long shot.

Brother in Arms
December 8, 2007, 11:12 AM
Another option might be the Venerable M1 rifle. I have shot several Navy M1 rifles chambered for 7.62 NATO and they shoot great. Also It is not hard to rebarrel an M1 from .30-06 to 7.62 but with the cheaper prices of surplus .30-06 I would go with the .30-06. The M1 has many of the same good features of the M1A and several of its own. Also it only has an 8 round clip so its probably new jersey ok. And there is nothing you can do with an M1A that you can't do with an M1 other than shoot 20 rounds down range without reloading, But id rather have 8 well aimed shots than 20 misses. Another thing you can do is build up an M1 from parts not exactly cheaper than buying one, but you learn the ins and outs of the rifle better. Plus its amazingly fun and extremely rewarding. You can also Match grade condition an M1 and in some instances they can shoot better than an M1A. But it won't be as cheap as the Saiga. Im not sure what the laws are in new jersey but if I lived in california I would definitly own an M1 over an M1A because of the limit to 10 round magazines. 8 is close enough to 10 and in my opinion high capacity magazines are overated.

Just encase anyone was wondering I own a M1, M1A and a Saiga .308 so I am giving my feelings on all three rifles that I have actually shot and worked on. The M1A was definitly the most exspensive I paid $900 for it and then had it rebarreled with a Match grade barrel for $125. Its got all USGI parts except the barrel and receiver and it came with 2-20 round mags so for $1025I did pretty good. I got very lucky on the M1 which was custom built I bought it for $400 from a very close freind. And Saiga I did an even trade on an SKS model M that I paid $200 for and recently added the new SVD style stock that cost $65 plus traded the original buttstock. So I only have $265 in that rifle. I plan to add a combloc posp 4-8x42 soon which cost $230 so I will have almost as much in the scope as I do the rifle.... Stuff adds up quick doesn't it.

Brother in Arms

moojpg2
December 8, 2007, 11:45 AM
How about the Remington 7400 or new 750 woodsmaster, you can get 10 round mags for them, they're accurate, reliable, come with iron sights, and you don't have to play with legal loopholes.

GunTech
December 8, 2007, 11:47 AM
I finished my M1A conversion. Here's a before and after. I plan to mount an AimPoint CompM3 or M4 on it after xmas. Just a cheap red dot on it now.

http://guntech.com/m14/m1a-olive.jpg

http://guntech.com/m14/m1a_scout.jpg

CAnnoneer
December 8, 2007, 01:03 PM
As it was pointed out above, DSA has California-approved FALs. I plan to buy one in the near future. It is difficult to believe NJ is more restrictive than CA, but then again nothing is impossible with gungrabbing scum :(

silverlance
December 8, 2007, 01:27 PM
If you are in the market for a FAL, why not buy one that is made by the only firearm manufacturer left in California? Our Imbel Rifles cost less than the competition, are warranteed for the life of the original user, come already put in CA-legal format, can be easily converted back to free state format, and from now until 12/31 just mention my name and THR and get free shipping on top of that.

Dont worry about the fixed magazine because unlike AR and AK the rifle was designed to allow top down loading (no silly breaking up the action, etc). Further, we also have mag-lock kits that allow you to detach the magazine (10 rnd only though) using a tool. And, soon, we are hoping to come out with a non-pistol grip FAL stock so you can use all the grandfathered 20 rnd magazines that you want.

$899 for the CA FAL, shipped to your friendly FFL.

Kev

judaspriest
December 8, 2007, 11:00 PM
Quote:
Aren't these all bolts or am I missing something? A bolt is nice but too specialized, a semi-auto is what I am looking for
FALs, PTRs, and M1As are pretty much all I've seen discussed here.

Frankly if you don't know whether those 3 rifles are bolt or semi maybe you should hold off on the shopping.......
No, TexasRifleman, I am not sure what the heck happened to the sequence, but I was actually replying to this comment

for wood, go with cz, for all else, go either Savage, Howa, or Tikka.

and not the FAL/PTRs/M1As

rockinrussky
December 9, 2007, 12:18 AM
I'll also recommend the FAL, though I couldn't say about its legalities in your state (just glad I live in VA). Good ergonomics, inexpensive when compared to an M1A, and an adjustable gas system really make this an ideal rifle IMO. My only real complaint about the FAL is that mine at least, the STG-58, gets kinda finnicky about ammo. It really doesn't like soft points at all, and gets a feeding problem with one every five or six rounds. From what I understand the chamber tolerances are so tight that the soft point tips can easily get snagged while cycling. Now, FMJ and Hollow Point it eats up no problem.

Pointman
December 9, 2007, 06:27 PM
A Savage 99 or FAL though most 7.62x51 MBR's will do their part if you do yours. I love MBR's in general and the FAL specifically but usually hump a .30-30 or .45 lever gun due to weight and convenience. Plus not living in a combat zone I get less curious looks.

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