Tactical Tactics


PDA






cdbeaver
December 25, 2002, 11:11 AM
Would some one please define "tactical" for me as it applies to firearms and optics? It seems to be a word that has been used rather loosely of late.

If you enjoyed reading about "Tactical Tactics" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
Tamara
December 25, 2002, 11:15 AM
It means "black and expensive". ;)

TheLastBoyScout
December 25, 2002, 01:40 PM
Tamara's definition seems to fit well, but I think of it as a weapon designed and/or optimized for use against people trying to kill you. Therefore, MP5s and AR15s= Tactical, while Mini-14s and 10-22s are not tactical.

Edward429451
December 25, 2002, 02:06 PM
Now wait just a minute here....22's are not tactical? How bout the lady who snuffed seven Taliban with a supressed .22 awhile back?

Tactical black is the joke, but I assert that tactical is really a mindset. You can use a 10/22 tactically, or you can use an AR-15 as a plinker, and so on...

762x51
December 25, 2002, 02:09 PM
Suppressed 10/22's are tactical.....regular 10/22's are not. You see? ;)

TheLastBoyScout
December 25, 2002, 03:08 PM
Suppressed 10/22's are tactical.....regular 10/22's are not. You see?

Exactly. A SUPPRESSED 10/22 would have been modified for its new use, silently killing enemies, there fore it's TACTICAL . A STOCK 10/22 was designed for recreational use, and is not used in combat (except as a last ditch), so it is NOT TACTICAL.

Tamara
December 25, 2002, 03:46 PM
Seems to me that a bone-stock Chipmunk .22 used to save your life would be far more "tactical" than a PSG-1 used to decorate a gun safe.

But that's just me. ;)

Glockster35
December 25, 2002, 06:59 PM
I agree "Tactical" is a mindset, not a color or anything else.

I think it is far overused, but I hardly feel like this is a new thing...Tactical has been abused for many years...I can't believe you just noticed.

Now for the kicker, I just bought paint to paint my 1985 VW Golf 4 door, guess what color it is????? Yep, tactical black, by Dupont...


:D

Correia
December 26, 2002, 06:48 PM
Man I really hate that word. In the gun world it is just a useless marketing nonsense buzzword.

Preacherman
December 26, 2002, 07:00 PM
Actually, you're all wrong... The term was invented by builders to describe a worker who wouldn't drive a nail hard and firm, but wasted time by tapping it gently with a ball-peen hammer instead. He was said to be doing the "tack-tickle". After numerous errors in pronunciation, and being applied to "nailing" criminals and the enemy, by natural progression we reached the modern term "tactical". I'm sure you all understand now... :D

El Tejon
December 26, 2002, 09:30 PM
cd, some people could not bring themselves or others to face the truth, thus we say "tactical" when we mean fighting.

Somewhere along the line someone forgot that firearms are weapons to be used against fellow human beings. Just another euphemism to shield some from this reality.

Of course, it is a handy marketing term to raise the price of anything!:)

444
December 26, 2002, 11:09 PM
"How bout the lady who snuffed seven Taliban with a supressed .22 awhile back? "

What was this all about ? :confused:

Tamara
December 27, 2002, 12:08 AM
Somewhere along the line someone forgot that firearms are weapons to be used against fellow human beings.

Right, like my Tactical Model Ruger Bearcat. You should see how fast I can clear an El Presidente with that beast!

I especially like the tactical bright brass gripframe... ;)

I also hear that all the snipers in SEEL team XLIV are using Ruger No.1 Internationals just like mine.

eviltravis
December 27, 2002, 01:23 AM
I think the term "tactical" may be more in reference to the weapons application, than to it's design. It's definitely an over used term. It is however so fun to say. Tactical. Tactical. Tactical.
If you say it three times really fast, your guns all turn black.:D

Art Eatman
December 27, 2002, 01:49 AM
IMO, tactical is a mindset as to how one uses any weapon.

There are times when the best tactical thinking invovles not being there. Leaving early. Making no noise. Not shooting; just disappearing.

I've spent a lot of years learning how to move through brush without making human-audible noise. The last thing on God's green earth you'd want is me after you out in the boonies, with a .22 rifle. You can have whatever you want. Odds are, I'd win, since sometime or another you're gonna have to sleep.

I've spent a lot of years learing the behavior and quirks of my pet rifle and my pet load, and learning to estimate range. Open country, one shot and you're "gone" and I'm also gone--but I'm moving.

So, what's tactical?

:D, Art

El Tejon
December 27, 2002, 08:54 AM
Tamara, your Tactical Bearcat is actually the Tactical Training Model. Billy's copies of the Single Action Army, et al, are weapons which were used against plenty of other human beings during 2 centuries.

Many lose sight of the reason for the rkba when they insist on describing firearms as sporting gear. They are not and was not what Madison intended. The RKBA is not about duck hunting, target shooting or even plinking.

The use of "tactical" this and "tactical" that is silly in that it attempts to partition "fighting" weapons from "others." They are all fighting weapons. Of course, if marketing calls it "tactical", the company can increase the unit price.:)

Still Learning
December 27, 2002, 10:24 AM
As usual, Tamara and Art nailed it pretty well.

The boys and girls in all the marketing departments have simply seized everyone's desire to be "tactical" to help sell everything from pen knives to firearms. Money won't buy your ability to become "tactical" anymore than it will buy you intelligence, physical fitness, etc. Anything worth having requires training, effort and continued practice.

The human desire to be able to plunk down some cash and have instant gratification is lining the pockets of a lot of folks selling over-priced trinkets, IMHO.

Tamara
December 27, 2002, 01:18 PM
They are all fighting weapons.

I'm sorry, but I have to disagree with you on that. (As you may remember... ;) )

I understand what RKBA is all about, but a Ruger Bearcat or Anschutz 2013 is no more a fighting weapon than a modern fencing foil is. They are toys for games or sports that are loosely based on skills needed for combat or food-gathering.

HS/LD
December 27, 2002, 01:33 PM
Should be used as a way to describe the "difference" between a firearm specifically designed for fighting or for sporting.

Now, can a sporting firearm be used in a fight (tactically), and vice versa can a military issure firearm be used for sport?

Of course.

Why do people get so upset when something is described as "tactical" seems like the same knee-jerk reaction the antis have...:confused:

Ok I'll stop banging on my all black tactical keyboard now.

HS/LD

Correia
December 27, 2002, 02:59 PM
I just think the word is overused to a disgusting degree.

I have an 870 Wingmaster with an 18 inch barrel and 2 shot extension. But it still has the pretty Wingmaster wood stocks. If I put it next to a new 870 Police model with an 18 inch barrel and 2 shot extension, only the PM has a black plastic stock, which one do you think will be marketed as tactical? They are the same gun, do the same thing, only one has plastic stocks.

What made the S&W TSW (Tactical S&W) series different than the regular Smiths? They were the same freaking guns with better triggers. Then they stuck flash light rails on them.

Why is the Springfield TRP a Tactical gun, while my lightly customized loaded model Springfield isn't? They do the same thing? The same way? With only minor cosmetic, and finish differences between the two.

I think that Tactical has taken on a few different meanings in the gun world. Anything that is scary looking to liberals. Anything that looks like it should be used for fighting. Or anything that is plastic or black. Like I said it is a useless inane marketing buzzword. Totally meaningless in actual life.

To me tactics are things that you do to fight more efficiently and to beat the other guy. Tactics are what you use to win. The finish on your gun has jack squat to do with tactics.

Andrew Wyatt
December 27, 2002, 05:25 PM
I'm going to have to disagree with tamara on this one.


A bearcat, Chipmunk or perrazi shotgun is still a weapon, and all three of them are quite capable of being used as a fighting piece.

It's mindset that makes a weapon a weapon.

King
December 27, 2002, 05:43 PM
My $.02 after stating that I don't use that word............

1) Black
2) For fighting rather than hunting or sporting
3) Mindset / intent.

As stated by Correia and others....a much over used word and designed for sellers to mark up the price.

Tamara
December 27, 2002, 05:55 PM
Originally posted by Andrew wyatt
I'm going to have to disagree with tamara on this one.


A bearcat, Chipmunk or perrazi shotgun is still a weapon, and all three of them are quite capable of being used as a fighting piece.

It's mindset that makes a weapon a weapon.

A weapon is something that is used to attack someone.

Saying, however, that a Ruger Bearcat, a Chipmunk, a blunted fencing foil, or a Louisville Slugger is designed to kill humans is stretching fact a little, though all four are certainly capable of doing so.

Edward429451
December 27, 2002, 06:32 PM
Tactical is of or relating to tactics....

Tactics;


(used with a sing. verb) The military science that deals with securing objectives set by strategy, especially the technique of deploying and directing troops, ships, and aircraft in effective maneuvers against an enemy: Tactics is a required course at all military academies.
(used with a pl. verb) Maneuvers used against an enemy: Guerrilla tactics were employed during most of the war.


Well well well. It dont say jack about mindset or Bearcats or 870's or Black or any weapons. Its about strategic maneuvers against an enemy.

But of course peoples slangish use of words can alter the meaning of words like saying "Thats Bad!" meaning cool or good. So even if we're all wrong technically, we're still all right too cause if you have the proper Mindset and have at least a Bearcat with you, you can use it to get back to the Black 870 that you shouldn't have laid down in the first place.:D

and that's tactical.

rock jock
December 27, 2002, 07:19 PM
There is a legitimate use of the word. Its just that it has been over- and mis-used so much that it has failed to mean anything. I think of tactical as light, manuverable, concealable, accessable, or accessorable.

Oh, and black.

ShaiVong
December 27, 2002, 07:53 PM
In one word: Strategery. :D

Wakal
December 28, 2002, 12:15 AM
Tactical = 250% markup

twoblink
December 28, 2002, 12:14 PM
http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=1342392

Are your tacticalness are belong to SKUNK!!

Skunk is the enbodiment of tacticalness..

labgrade
December 29, 2002, 12:47 AM
When you can accurately define "liberal," or much of any other catch-as-can single wordy-thing these days, you're well on your way to "tactical."

I'd be hard-pressed to argue the point of anyone darned stealthy & a Bearcat versus some yahoo-hack with the latest whiz-bang "sniper-wonder."

Guess I'd take my chances against the "sniper" anyday. I'd rather not be hunted by someone who knows what they're all about with a goodly wrist-rocket.

As with anything hunting, it's so much more about the skill-set of the person than the gun.

"Tactical" is as much in the head as is "weapon."

You'll get a different answer from one who wears a "flower-shirt." ;)

Skunkabilly
January 2, 2003, 01:07 AM
In all seriousness, I consider 'tactical' a loose synonym for 'combat', i.e. the environment that the black or twotone thingy is to be used, as opposed to sport, hunting, bullseye, bench, etc.

Or something.

Whatever!

Dr.Rob
January 2, 2003, 05:45 PM
Guerilla tactics don't have much to do with black nomex, knee pads or gargoyle wraparound goggles.

Last I checked, sharpened sticks in a pit was a "tactical option" employed against technologically superior foes.

And a "Tactical Nuclear Weapon" was a low yield battle field bomb, as opposed to a city-erasing Nuclear warhead.

So what does this have to do with firearms? Nothing––not a darn thing.

You can buy all the nomex and choate you want, it doesn't mean a thing without real practice and training.

My elk rifle has a black plastic stock, but that doesn't make it 'tactical'.

Funny how all those tactical-minded "operators" over in Afghanistan weren't wearing a lick of black nomex. Was it "tactical" to carry an AK and ride a horse? Yup, apparently so. It was also "tactical" to grow a beard and look like the locals. Never saw that discussed as a "tactical option" on the rifle boards, though I myself grow one every fall.

Tactics= small unit actions, Strategy=bigger picture stuff.

Me, I'm going for the bigger market by introducing the new line of Strategic© Wear for the "now" operator.

Nomex is passe.. everyone knows when you are sitting in a bunker halfway across the world lobbing smart rocks at nenaderthals you can wear cuban heels and a tomato colored jumpsuit.

Our new line of Strategic© rifles will be fired from orbit and can pinpoint a gnat's bum in a full blackout. Of course, Strategic© Sniper Gear will be a festive Hawaiian shirt and Big Kahuna straw hat. You don't really need to stay concealed when shooting from orbit, right? Strategic© pajamas are designed to make you feel as safe and luxurious as your reinforced grotto. Visions of sugarplum laden Strategic© bombers crossing the pole to enact your global policies will flow easliy when wrapped in my patented silk Strategic© sheets.

Sure, the Strategic© line is more expensive than "Tactical black", but I'm aiming for a consumer with a larger world view.

Have we beaten this horse to death yet?

:banghead: :scrutiny: :rolleyes:

Skunkabilly
January 3, 2003, 03:57 AM
Strategic would have to be silver like F-106 and B-36's!!

Twotone = strategic!

Blackcloud6
January 3, 2003, 08:29 AM
Tactical is a marketing word to sell stuff to SRT, Marine, Ranger etc. wannabees.

ether
January 3, 2003, 10:50 PM
"Tactical" will be the new slang for "cool" in a few years. Just you wait... :D

If you enjoyed reading about "Tactical Tactics" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!