Systema confusion. Seial #s and breech insert.


December 4, 2007, 03:47 PM
A few weeks I bought a used Systema marked 'AERONAUTICA ARGENTINA', sub-marked ' Sist. Colt Caliber 11.28mm Model 1927'.

Matching serial numbers on slide and frame but not the barrel. Finish is parkerized. Condition appears to be good-to-excellent with no noticable up-down movement of slide and very little lateral movement.

I can find no export/import markings, but the serial number(s) are hyphenated. The serial number(s) read '96xxx - 4xxx'.

Using the search feature, I was able to find reference to the various serial number ranges for the corresponding years.

I was not able to find reference to the hyphenated last four digits. In my case the '- 4xxx'.

Is the hyphenated portion part of the serial number or could that be the importers mark?

I understand that, at some point in their mfgr, a steel insert was placed in the breech face. True or False?...if True, why?...if True, at what serial number range were the inserts added?



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December 4, 2007, 07:38 PM
I have never seen any part near the breech of my Sistema, or any other 1911A1, that looks like what you describe.

Mad Magyar
December 4, 2007, 08:55 PM
Was your 4XXX below 4,285? I ask since there were that many of your model made for the Argentina Air Force....It could be a specific #..:)

December 4, 2007, 09:00 PM
Serial numbered like this? Last four numbers probably denotes property numbers
Never heard about inserts in the breach!?

December 4, 2007, 09:02 PM
I would like to see a photo of the breech insert, can you post one?

Most likely a 'one-off' repair job done by an armorer. If the barrel isn't original (no matching s/n), then it has probably been refurbished one or more times over the course of it's life as an Air Force pistol.

December 4, 2007, 09:05 PM
Yessir cghammo, thats it.

Is the hyphenated suffix part of the legal serial number?..import/export marking?



December 4, 2007, 09:38 PM
As far as I know it has nothing to do with import/export marking or the serial number. Simple a property number for the Argentina Air Force.
In the picture I posted, if you look under the serial number on the frame you can see where it is stamped CAI St. Albans Vt. That is the import marking for Century Arms International
The picture is from a well known auction site by the way.

December 4, 2007, 10:43 PM
cghammo. CWL, and johhyc;

I really don't know for sure about the insert. Even if I saw one, I doubt that I'd recognize what I was looking at. Before I gave it away to one of my sons, I had a Bullseye .45 made out of a '27 Sistema by Jim Clark. I understood at the time of the sale that Jim Sr. had installed the insert.

Clark built that ball gun in the late 60s maybe I dis-remember the conversation, but thats what I recall.

Also there was a thread here by NC-Mike dtd 28 Nov, 07 dealing with a stuck firing pin. 1911Tuner responded on two occasions to that thread. In one of the responses he did mention the hardened insert.

I don't know for sure, thats why I was asking.

Also, Mad Maygar;

The hyphenated portion reads 4,711.



Old Fuff
December 4, 2007, 11:39 PM
Don't have my reference book handy, but before World War Two Colt started press fitting a bushing in the slide at the breechface in the firing pin hole. This was eliminated after the "hard slide" developed by Remington-Rand was adopted in or about 1945. In Argentina they had older blueprints which might have included the bushing.

December 5, 2007, 12:07 AM
Thanks Old Fuff.

Good to see you again.


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