Best pistol caliber Carbine....


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Carbon_15
December 4, 2007, 08:25 PM
My local IDPA is having a 3 gun match this month. Pistol, check, shotgun, check, pistol caliber carbine...nope. I have had several and got bored with and traded 'em. I figure I can't pass up a legitimate excuse to buy a new gun though.
What is the best 9mm carbine on teh market?
I have owned a Kel-tec sub-2000, the trigger sucked and the ergonomics were horrible, I had to disjoint my neck to get the sights in line.
I traded that and got a Beretta Storm. Ditto the trigger, better ergonomics this time. Just couldn't get past the trigger, and I got bored with the flashy looks and mediocre performance pretty quick.
I also had a Camp-9 when I was younger. Probly a better rifle than either of the above. Regretibly I sold it when I sold the Storm. I had decided that 9mm rifles were not for me.
I'm not interested in a Hi-Point or Ar-15 platform...so what does that leave? Ruger? Vector Uzi? I'm also open to the idea of a leveraction .38/.357.

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Halo is for Kids
December 4, 2007, 08:47 PM
Sounds like you need a Mech Tech CCU. http://www.mechtechsys.com/

It's a shame you didn't like the CX4, I like mine. Eotech on the top and it's hard to miss out to 50 yards. Trigger took some time to get used to, so that's a valid complaint. The trigger on mine is broken in now. Still a mushy takeup, but now with a clean break.

Pros:
-Not a gun so they can ship to you directly.
-If you have a Glock or a 1911 you are already set up with magazines.
-Trigger is the Glock or 1911 trigger you're used to.
-Comes optic ready with the rail.
-$350 to $450

Cons:
-PIA to clean.
-If you don't have a Glock or 1911 you have a higher cost.
-Don't plan on using the same pistol at competition. It takes awhile to separate the two.
-Cheesy muzzle attachments.
-$350 to $450

http://www.mechtechsys.com/images/CCU%20M16%20stock%204%20(small).jpg

rantingredneck
December 4, 2007, 08:52 PM
I had a Ruger PC9. Heavy but crisp trigger. It's a bit shocking at first and you'll think the safety is on, but once you get a feel for it you will own the bullseye. Jack Wiegand makes a nice weaver rail for it that fits the machined in Ruger base recesses.

taliv
December 4, 2007, 09:08 PM
can you use a pistol caliber carbine in place of a normal rifle?

EHCRain10
December 4, 2007, 10:05 PM
trigger job on a beretta storm?

Walkalong
December 4, 2007, 10:17 PM
Mech Tech's are cool and fun to shoot. I have a different frame on it now. Bought a cheap used Essox frame for it and put my LW Commander back together. :D

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=48425&d=1164464247

Eric F
December 4, 2007, 10:29 PM
UM lets see there is put together stuff..........not my first choice But most places that have "pistol caliber rifles" allow m1 carbines a far better choice than any other listed so far IMO. Some body is bound to mention the hipoint. but aside from the m1 there isnt a cheap high capacity alternative.

Vaarok
December 4, 2007, 11:20 PM
Destroyer Carbine!

rangerruck
December 4, 2007, 11:30 PM
maybe a calico 9milly?

22HM77
December 4, 2007, 11:58 PM
What's the reliability like with the Mech Tech? I assume just slightly less than the pistol itself?

MMcfpd
December 5, 2007, 12:36 AM
DeLisle Carbine! Bolt action .45 ACP.

Roswell 1847
December 5, 2007, 01:03 AM
The 9mm doesn't benefit much from the longer barrel unless you use Sub gun loads and some subgun loads may be too hot for civilian carbines.
Oddly some subgun loads which used slower burning rifle powders were found safe to use in the blowback 9mm Browning long 1907 because a lot of the powder burned outside the bore.

The Wilkerson Linda Carbine seemed to fit me pretty good but I didn't get around to buying one and I think they quit making them. Never fired one but they had a good rep at the time.

http://securityarms.com/20010315/galleryfiles/2100/2121.htm
Bit of a collectors item these days and priced accordingly.

From one source it appears that you could buy ten Hipoints for the resale value of one Linda in good condition.

Well thats another one I wish I'd got when it was cheap.

sefus
December 5, 2007, 01:42 AM
cm11!!!

Carbon_15
December 5, 2007, 08:02 AM
Calico...I hadnt though about them. Anyone have one? What are its pros and cons?

Omaha-BeenGlockin
December 5, 2007, 08:11 AM
Auto: Ruger PC9

Lever:Marlin

jwxspoon
December 5, 2007, 08:28 AM
I have a Kel-tec Sub2K in .40, fun as hell to shoot. Takes Glock .40 mags and I have a couple of 29 rounds mags that work well also.

I've not had a problem with the ergonomics, but then I added a cheap holosight instead of using the factory sights.

jw

AVESguy
December 5, 2007, 09:19 AM
How about an M1 Carbine. Light as a feather, reliable, 15-30 round mags available, very accurate to 100 yds, no recoil, totally fun to shoot beyond all reason. Loud!

RecoilRob
December 5, 2007, 08:01 PM
Ruger PC9 can have the trigger lightened pretty easily. The trigger return spring in mine was REALLY heavy and seemed to be in coil-bind when pushed far enough to make the hammer fall. Replacing mine (with one from my odds-n-ends box) and got the trigger down to 4 1/2-5lbs. Not the greatest trigger in the world, but MUCH better than the 'oh crap! I must have left the safety on' stocker.

tinygnat219
December 5, 2007, 08:51 PM
Hi-Point by far.

roscoe
December 6, 2007, 12:35 AM
Let me pitch the .357 lever carbine. It has MUCH more power than the 9mm (up to 30-30 levels), and has the potential for better range with the new LeverEvolution ammo. They are very PC (if that matters to you), they can be used to hunt, unlike the 9mm, and finally, they are very flexible. They can shoot light and cheap .38 loads for plinking, and be loaded with heavy 200 grain hardcast loads for real penetration, with a selection in between.

With a ghost ring / peep sight (XS or Williams), they pretty accurate and are quick to the eye. They are compact and handy to carry, and if you had only one rifle, it would not be a terrible choice.

I have a Winchester Trapper, and my brother has a Puma 1892. They are both pretty good, with the nod to the Puma for the trigger. Marlins are reportedly nice as well.

I will admit a certain envy for a Glock 20 Mechtech, since it is the only 10mm carbine avialable nowadays.

TechPrepper
July 6, 2011, 04:44 PM
I am waaaay late to this conversation, but in case someone else comes across it as I did I'll add my 2-cents. There are two options not mentioned already and I have both and enjoy shooting both.

The first is the H&K USC chambered in 45 ACP (http://www.hk-usa.com/civilian_products/usc_general.asp). This is by far my favorite pistol caliber carbine. It is crazy accurate, allowing me to get 1 to 2 inch groupings at 50 to 80 yards. The kick was so light when I first fired it I wondered if it had mis-fired.

http://www.hk-usa.com/-images/products/usc/lg_usc.jpg

The second option is to put a Mako Stock on a Glock 17 (http://fsty.io/oUcNE8). NOTE: Doing this technically creates a SBR so be sure to file the right paper work with the ATF if you plan to go this route. The platform it creates is very stable and you get some pretty amazing performance using it. That said, its still a G17 and you won't get the additional range you would with a longer barrel.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/314APxuvr-L._AA300_.jpg

A parting note, there are many MP-5 and Uzi clones out there. I've never fired one however so I can't share any experience on that count.

boricua9mm
July 6, 2011, 07:26 PM
A tuned MP5 clone would be my choice by far. It's the Cadillac of PCCs. After that, the Uzi.

http://www.ricanhavocproductions.com/images/bw5a3_3.jpg

451 Detonics
July 6, 2011, 09:07 PM
I would say Mech Tech as well, get it for a Glock 17 and you can buy a complete Glock lower for about $250 and not have to takes yours apart (if you have a Glock). The Masterpiece Arms Mac carbines work very well and have very good accuracy, the Suomi is a classic that uses cheap 72 round drums, the Sterling is available and if the allow 7.62X25 as a sub caliber the PPSH-41 works...

My favorites that I own and shoot....

Mech Tech...

http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z271/reloader1959/rifles/mechglock.jpg

Suomi

http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z271/reloader1959/rifles/suomi_4.jpg

MPA 71

http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z271/reloader1959/rifles/mpa71range-1.jpg

PPSh-41

http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z271/reloader1959/rifles/papacz.jpg

ironhead7544
July 6, 2011, 09:15 PM
There is a Carbon 15 9mm carbine.

Redneck with a 40
July 6, 2011, 09:21 PM
If there is an AR platform in 10mm, that would be bad ass.

Cluster Bomb
July 6, 2011, 10:36 PM
Hipoint

TechPrepper
July 6, 2011, 10:57 PM
A tuned MP5 clone would be my choice by far. It's the Cadillac of PCCs. After that, the Uzi.


I just placed an order for a nice MP-5 Pistol that I'll convert to an SBR shortly thereafter. I can't wait!

EAJ
July 8, 2011, 04:20 PM
Here's a photo of a Bushmaster Carbon 15 9MM Carbine

http://www.fishkind.com/collection/images/bush_08.jpg

JustinJ
July 8, 2011, 08:48 PM
Hipoint? He said best, not cheapest.

HK UMP conversion from HK USC.

Cluster Bomb
July 8, 2011, 09:58 PM
that is why i mentioned hipoint, because it is the best.

Ro1911
July 8, 2011, 10:28 PM
Look into a sterling the century ones are actually made by Wiselite arms and are very good.

If you get one don't dry fire it, it's firing pin is not made for it.

kludge
July 9, 2011, 04:23 PM
Thompson. SBR it.

S. Hill
July 11, 2011, 04:26 PM
You should also check out Thureon Defense. They have both a 9mm and .45 ACP carbine in production.

With a base price just under $660, you won't break the bank when you buy it.

There are a lot of accessories available, M4 stocks, tactical handguards, and trigger upgrades.

They have a bunch of videos on their site and also on YouTube.

Their website is www.mycarbine.com. They would work great for your 3 gun match.

Acera
July 11, 2011, 04:46 PM
Mech-Tech is good only if you don't want to change it back to a pistol, ever. To do so you must have a tax stamp. Only T/C has a current exemption on one of their rifle kits that allows it go back and forth. No telling who might be at the match and witness you change from rifle to pistol, and get you in hot water for it.

Yes, Redneck with a 40. There is a 10mm AR carbine, Olympic Arms makes it, or you can get the kit form.

For a project, Lone Wolf makes an AR lower that accepts Glock magazines. You can get it in 9mm. .357 SIG, or .40 cal. With the abundance of aftermarket and factory magazines, some over 30 rounds, it might be a good thing to look into.

kludge
July 11, 2011, 07:22 PM
Mech-Tech is good only if you don't want to change it back to a pistol, ever. To do so you must have a tax stamp. Only T/C has a current exemption on one of their rifle kits that allows it go back and forth. No telling who might be at the match and witness you change from rifle to pistol, and get you in hot water for it.

Does anyone know of an ATF letter that allows/forbids switching back and forth? There are other boards that say just the opposite as this.

Accordingly, we conclude that the Contender pistol and carbine kit when packaged together by Thompson/Center have not been "made" into a short-barreled rifle for purposes of the NFA. The judgment of the Court of Appeals is therefore Affirmed.


Instead of saying "the Contender pistol and carbine kit" I could just as easily say "a pistol frame, a pistol barrel, a rifle frame with a shoulder stock, and a rifle barrel stored together in a gun safe have not been 'made' into a short-barreled rifle for the purposes of the NFA."

The SCOTUS decision departed from the "any combination of parts" type of wording that you see in the machine gun law. The "any combination of parts" is not found in the SBR section of the law. The SBR has to be "made"; if you don't "make" an SBR it doesn't exist - at least that's how I read it (and yes I read the whole decision, not just the last paragraph.)

"Once a machine gun, always a machine gun" doesn't apply to SBR's either - this is plain from reading the SBR FAQ's on the ATF website. If I remove the barrel I can sell a receiver that was once part of an SBR without any further paperwork/transfer. The ATF does however recommend that you tell them, but you are not required to tell them.

IMO, IANAL, etc.

leerdmn
July 12, 2011, 12:57 AM
Hi Point 995TS. Cheap, reliable, and dead on out to 75 yards. Only limitation is the 10 round mags, but you have a 50/50 shot of getting good ProMag 15 rounders.

Lee

langloisandy
July 12, 2011, 10:00 AM
I had a Mech Tech conversion, an AWESOME platform. Great idea and execution for 1911/glock shooters.

That being said, I have been testing a 9MM AR platform that works SUPERBLY, dead nuts reliable and handy as heck. Normally I am an avid Uzi kinda guy but this AR is neat, fun and USEFUL. (more details later).

Andy

Sig88
July 12, 2011, 10:31 AM
I'd say an AR in 9mm or Keltec. Something that accepts Glock magazines to make reloading easier and follow the trend of your pistols, assuming one has Glocks to begin with. I know this is a resurrected thread so there's my two cents on the subject

Boomie
July 12, 2011, 11:34 AM
+1 for the Sterling. I have one with a fiberoptic front sight. Very fast to get on target and 100% reliable, even if abused. I actually like the funky magazine location for tucking the gun in close and for firing prone.

Also cheap! $379 at J&G (http://www.jgsales.com/product_info.php/p/sterling-carbine%2C-9mm-cal-by-wiselite-/products_id/3446).

My uncle has a Beretta Storm. I like that a lot too but don't like the small magazines. I also can't afford one at the prices they go for now!

Carl N. Brown
July 12, 2011, 11:43 AM
I'm also open to the idea of a leveraction .38/.357.

If authenticity is an issue, the Rossi 1892 clone in .38 Special was a common South American police issue firearm.

GCBurner
July 12, 2011, 11:52 AM
It would be a great excuse to buy one of the Auto Ordnance .45 Thompson carbines, I think.

FAS1
July 12, 2011, 12:50 PM
It would be a great excuse to buy one of the Auto Ordnance .45 Thompson carbines, I think.

Gets my vote!

http://www.proxibid.com/AuctionImages/1392/21764/Detail/60.jpg

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