[RKBABob]

Would you buy a milsurp firearm, knowing that it may have been used for some evil purpose by a past owner? The idea kind of bothers me... not knowing what the firearm was used for in the past. Anyone else feel the same way?

[AnthonyC.]

Ummm...Their loss our gain???:scrutiny: Thats how I think about it

[mljdeckard]

Proof that it works.

[SomeKid]

Would you breathe air, knowing a murderer may have used the same oxygen molecules?

[TexasRifleman]

Same as everything else.... it's not the tool used that determines evil.

[redneckrepairs]

Actually i have a few that were either involved in suicide or attempted homocide . Dont bother me at all . And as to how i know the history of the guns , well lets just say that one side of my family tree didn't branch near enough .

[Nomad101bc]

Unless you truly beleive the gun is posessed by some sort of "evil spirit;" I don't really see any concern...

[Just Jim]

Not sure what your up to with all your polls but you might express your agenda so we know.

jj

[scrat]

No problem.

Men our brought up on different ideas. They are brought up thinking the country they live in is the best, the culture is the best and the government is the best. Then one day they are drafted and now have to serve in thier armed forces. REgardless of what country they served for and what flag they waved. These were men that went out to fight for thier countries. That rifle, handgun was something they had to either kill. Or even more so to protect thier own life. Regardless of what country it came from Knowing that some 18 year old kid. USed this or was taught to use this to kill and to protect his own life from being killed. I dont blame the kids, i dont blame the guns. Its the politicians that put these boys there.

I would never throw one away if given to me. Or burn it or bury it. This was used by someone to save their life and to take others. If anything its a symbol of what can go wrong with politicans and dictators.

I would purchase one, I would except one. I would clean it up oil it shoot it. Take care of it and keep it safe.

[Sistema1927]

Tools are tools. If I buy a hammer at the flea market I don't worry that maybe it was previously used to bash in someone's head.

[The Lone Haranguer]

If I had the money, I would take two of each. ;) They are just inanimate objects.

But neither would I seek out a specific firearm or other weapon that I had certain knowledge of being used in some heinous crime.

[tinygnat219]

Sure.

[yesit'sloaded]

I own a gun used to kill a LEO a long long time ago. It never made me do bad things. It is now on loan to a museum where it is on display. It's just a tool.

[scrat]

i voted on the pole. first one. can you tell what i voted for

[Bubbles]

The hubby and I have a .44 revolver that was a range rental gun. Someone used it to commit suicide on the range.

[Slater]

Them:

"Don't you realize that those Mosin-Nagants you own could have been used to enforce Stalinist repression, or to perform mass executions during the Purges? Your Yugoslav M-48A and SKS could have been used to slaughter people during the Yugoslav Civil War in the 1990's."

Steve Martin: WELL, EXCUUUUSE ME!"

:rolleyes:

[Rumble]

I answered "doesn't bother me," but in truth I have no idea if it will never be used that way again - if I sell the gun, it's out of my hands, for example. However, in general, that's the answer.

I like stories about cursed weapons, or charmed weapons, and stuff like that, but in general I don't believe that the acts of the user really imbue the weapon with anything.

On the other hand, I also see why someone might not want to keep a weapon that was used to harm a loved one (for instance, the gun used by a loved one to commit suicide - it's not "evil," per se, but no one should be expected to retain something that has a painful association should they choose not to).

Long way of saying that in general, it doesn't bother me if guns have a history. Some of it could be very interesting. Some of it may be fairly grim. But it is history.

[JWarren]

You left out a category.

What about those individuals who seek out guns that many have been used for evil BECAUSE they were used for evil?

Yep, I am sure there are some out there. I haven't assumed anything since my Freshman year at LSU when I discovered that the guy in the next dorm room over was a devoted and practicing Satanist-- and he wasn't just doing it for shock value.

Something is just not right about a Satanist who plays a tuba....


-- John

[Rumble]

...a Satanist who plays a tuba....

Now that's evil.

[RKBABob]

Not sure what your up to with all your polls but you might express your agenda so we know.
No agenda here, JJ. I was just looking at milsurp firearms, and realized that the history of some (Nazi proof marks, etc.) bothered me. Just wondered how others feel about it.

BTWSome of you replied before I could get the poll up and running, and I changed the question in the OP before I realized this. (I removed a question about police-seized firearms)

[yesit'sloaded]

At least it wasn't the bagpipes.

[Just Jim]

Of course his polls seemed rigged for something unknown but I am going to answer with this. Used guns have a "history". Lots of people like to collect history pieces that were used in history making times.

With your polls it seems as if you work for some kind of focus group that is seeing what gun owners will accept in gun control. Are you????

jj

[The Lone Haranguer]

What about those individuals who seek out guns that many have been used for evil BECAUSE they were used for evil?

As a clarification to what I said in my first post, that I would not do.

Something is just not right about a Satanist who plays a tuba....
If he plays it at 3:00 in the morning in a thin-walled apartment, that is definitely evil. ;)

[BridgeWalker]

I'm more of a I like not because of the association or history, but because I like using them for non-harmful things. It just feels good to bring the old war-scarred Mosin to the range on a quiet sunny day.

Silly feeling, since it sure doesn't care, but there it is.

Before I owned it I thought I might feel funny about it. :o

[RKBABob]

With your polls it seems as if you work for some kind of focus group that is seeing what gun owners will accept in gun control. Are you????No.. I just want to know if I'm the only one here who feels uncomfortable not knowing if that collector's piece in the safe was once used by Nazi thugs to round up "undesireables." The idea came to me when I was looking at various milsurps... it occured to me that I don't have any desire for a Luger because of its Nazi history.

I was really looking for an unissued Makarov, BTW.

[macFarlaine]

All of my firearms have a traceable history,most come from respectable homes.I have three that have a dubious background,but nothing I would regard as evil.

[JWarren]

If he plays it at 3:00 in the morning in a thin-walled apartment, that is definitely evil.


The Lone Haranguer,

Well, he played it in Kirby-Smith Dorm-- which I think may have been Dante's 7th Circle of Hell.


-- John

[fletcher]

I don't care at all. It's nothing more than an object, and after I buy it, it will do what I make it do.

[RNB65]

The idea kind of bothers me... not knowing what the firearm was used for in the past.

In that case, you need to consider changing your username. Placing blame on the gun instead of the person holding the gun is the very argument that liberals use to justify gun control and efforts to revoke the RKBA.

[Just Jim]

Well Bob I tend to take people for their word but just in case I am making a copy of this thread and mailing it to myself. If later on we find out that you are part of a focus group then the copy will be used to show you were not telling the truth. Thus all credibility will be lost.

You seem to ask alot of question of gun owners that could be used against them. While you may just be a curious gun owner and want alot of discussion I have seen it before where people talk to gun owners and use their words against them.

That liberal Michal Moore who made a movie while making gun owners look like fools is the most recent one. I am not trying to offend you but I think the questions have to be asked.

jj

[mp510]

When I hold my M-39, I can't help but wonder how many Soviets those sights had been trained upon and how many of them my rifle may have helped send to their Maker. - the rifle was remade in 1941- possibly in time for end of the Winter War, and I would not doubt that it served in the Continuation War. The wear to rifle, especially the wood furniture tell where it's been.

Whenever I pick up a milsurp, especially one that's well worn or was personalizesd by the soldier who carried it, I can't help but think about his fate. I remember one rifle in particular- a Yugo 59/66 that had the word NINJA and a date from the Balkans conflict carved into the stock.

I also collect Confederate numistmatic items, and I get a similar feeling from those as well, especially one that supposadly came from some currency found at a Farm in North Carolina where Confederate forces are said to have stayed during the Civil War.

[Bazooka Joe71]

This poll is kind of silly...I love buying milsurps for the history behind them...Obviously the best ones are the ones that weren't used because they are in mint condition, but it would bother me what it was used for...

BUT, with that being said,

The hubby and I have a .44 revolver that was a range rental gun. Someone used it to commit suicide on the range.

Thats kind of creepy.:)

[bluestarlizzard]

well, i think in this poll i'm among everyone else when i say, "if it now belongs to me, i t won't get used for evil." but i also have a couple of other points.
1. evil is both a very specific term (i KNOW excatly what I think is evil) and a very vague term, 'cause i don't know what YOU consider evil.
2. a good example of my first point, i don't consider suicide evil. in my mind, its more of a waste and very very sad, but not evil. i in no way condoin suicide as a good thing, i just don't think that its evil.
i was going to make another point but i can't figure out how to word it, so i'll just leave it at this.
Guns are tools, and any tool/technology in the hands of someone who wishes to harm can be destructive. but conversily, any tool/technology in the hands of someone who wishes to do good, can improve society. So the gun you bought (despite its intresting past) can be used to feed your family, relaxe you at the range, and protect you from those who would harm.

[alucard0822]

I do my part in keeping guns off of the street, and in a warm and loving home, kind of a retirement plan for milsurps, and wayward classics;)

It doesn't bother me one bit to own K98s, mosins, AKS pattern or any other rifle with a dubious history, it is proof that we won, and now we have their stuff.

If indeed you do have an evil gun, I would suggest an old priest, and a young priest, some candles, incense, and with fervor repeat "the power of John Browning compels you, leave this innocent firearm and go back from whence you came", then POOF, it will be back to it's old inanimate self;)

[Hokkmike]

Actually none apply.

[Grizzly Adams]

A gun is a tool and has no decision on how or when it is used. If you consider one evil then you are playing right into the anti-gun groups hands when they say "guns kill people". NO THEY DON'T!

[ozwyn]

guns are objects, they cannot carry the sin of past deeds. Even if they could, then by owning them and using them to protect your loved ones, you offer a chance at redemption.

So now you can claim to be offering a chance of making up for past evils by buying all those milsurps.... like an excuse was needed :rolleyes:

[eflatminor]

How exactly are you defining evil? Name one country, one empire, one clan or hell, one family, that hasn't committed evil in their past. Can't be done. To suggest that one would not own a weapon because it was produced in a country that has acted in an evil manner is the height of hypocracy.

[hso]

It's a thing and isn't imbued with a spirit.

My early FN GP-35 Hi Power with NAZI markings is no more evil than the Inglis Hi-Power that sits beside it. The K-98 beside my M-1 Garand is no more good or evil than the rack they both sit on.

People and organizations are good or evil not the tools they use.

[Liko81]

It's kinda like Penn Gilette owning a previously-functional, used electric chair as a sex toy. Whether you're for or against capital punishment, you can guarantee it's just a prop and will never kill anyone again. Owning a milsurp weapon is similar; regardless of how many it killed in its day and whether those people were "good" or "bad", odds are when it reaches civilian hands it will be used only for civilian purposes (target, hunting, home defense).

[RKBABob]

In that case, you need to consider changing your username. Placing blame on the gun instead of the person holding the gun is the very argument that liberals use to justify gun control and efforts to revoke the RKBA.
I'm not blaming the gun for the acts of the user! I only said that I prefer not to own guns (or axes, or chainsaws, or rope, or cars) that may have been used for something unspeakable in the past. A gun that may have been used for something that I consider evil is somehow "dirty" to me. It bothers me, but may not bother you... that's why I created a poll to find out your opinion.

I really doubt Rosie O'Donnel will use this poll to point out that many firearms owners are avid history buffs.

With that said, I can appreciate the appeal of many milsurps (Makarov, Nagant revolver, Mosin Nagant, M1, 1911A1). The Luger is absolutely fascinating, mechanically, but I don't want one myself because of its historical associations.

[bruss01]

I won't own anything with a swastika. Not because of any history particular to that gun, just because I LOATHE the swastika and everything it represents. It's an emotional reaction rather than a rational one. I have no problem with others owning such items as objects of historical interest, but I won't have one under my roof.

I wouldn't have a problem with owning a gun with a checkered grip or a checkered past. That would probably just give it a bit of "personality" imho. Of course, if it had an unpleasant association like the suicide of a loved one to it's history, it would probably have to go.

[Liko81]

It's kinda like Penn Gilette owning a previously-functional, used electric chair as a sex toy. Whether you're for or against capital punishment, you can guarantee it's just a prop and will never kill anyone again. Owning a milsurp weapon is similar; regardless of how many it killed in its day and whether those people were "good" or "bad", odds are when it reaches civilian hands it will be used only for civilian purposes (target, hunting, home defense).

[Justin]

I'll own one.

But only after I have a Catholic Priest, a Baptist Minister, and a VooDoo Witch Doctor exorcise the evil spirits.

:rolleyes:


Some people and their woo...

[Bazooka Joe71]

So now you can claim to be offering a chance of making up for past evils by buying all those milsurps.... like an excuse was needed

Oh no! Like I needed another excuse!:what:

I won't own anything with a swastika.

It's also a symbol of peace and good...Why not just pretend it's a peace sign, and not a symbol of the third reich?:p

[Acheron]

I believe in the presence of 'spirits' inside weapons and other inanimate objects, I'll tell you why:

I own several milsurps, one of which is a 1940 Ishevsk 91/30. Although I have no real proof other than a knowledge of history I know that that particular rifle served in the Second World War. And I'm positive that it was used to kill at least one person, if not more. Because when I hold that rifle I feel something different than I do with anything else I own. It's difficult to explain, but I feel more than just wood and steel; I feel a certain energy. While I don't think it's malignant, it's definitely the energy of someone who has died prematurely. Like a soldier killed in battle.

Many ethnic groups from around the world believed that spirits could become trapped in inanimate objects, paticularly weapons. That being said, I wouldn't turn away a gun because I got a bad vibe from it. I would rather have it with me where it is safe and its history can be preserved

[RKBABob]

I hope Oleg doesn't mind if I "borrow" this photo for a little bit:

http://www.olegvolk.net/gallery/d/22309-2/difference7198.jpg

I found out what I wanted to know...
And, it turns out that I am in the minority here. While it would bother me to own a pistol that has a "history," such as in Oleg's excellent poster (above), I would fully support anyone using that same p-38 to protect themselves and their loved ones.

To each their own. I'll stick with un-issued surplus, or brand new tools...
and leave the collectors' pieces for someone who doesn't have the same hangups that I have.

:) Thanks to everyone who participated in the poll. :)
I'm going back to work, now. Feel free to continue without me.

[MrMorden]

Firearms are inanimate objects and are neither "good" or "evil." They also don't leap out and attack people from their hiding places, contrary to HCI propaganda.

[SaMx]

guys, the poll isn't about whether the gun is evil, but if you would buy one that had been used for evil.

milsurp guns don't bother me, except ones with a direct connection to the nazis. I wouldn't like to drive to work in hitler's car either.

[Clipper]

There wasn't a 'Gimme a Break' button...

[1911Tuner]

No.. I just want to know if I'm the only one here who feels uncomfortable not knowing if that collector's piece in the safe was once used by Nazi thugs to round up "undesireables."

Or, it may have simply been used by a German conscript who was answering his country's call to arms...the same as young men have done all over the world in time of war.

Not all German soldiers were Nazis, and not all of them were monsters who took delight in cruel and inhuman acts. Most of'em wanted the war to end so they could just go home and see their families again.

War is hell. War is cruel. Atrocities and crimes have been committed by soldiers on all sides of any given conflict, the same as acts of compassion and kindness...and that's a fact.

[littlegator]

Would you breathe air, knowing a murderer may have used the same oxygen molecules?

It comes back out as carbon dioxide. :D

Buying guns that may have been used for evil in such a way that it actually supports evil is one thing. In that case, I wouldn't do it. In other words, if an Iraqi extremist bent on killing Americans is selling an AK47 in order to make money to that end, I'm not buyin. I'm not buying any weapons from anyone I think might be using my money to do evil. However, I know that buying an MP 40 or MP 44 isn't going to do that, even if it was used for evil in the past. Unless, of course, an Iraqi extremist bent on killing Americans is selling an MP 40 or MP 44 in order to make to that end. In which case, that sucks, but I'll have to buy from someone else.

[AZ_Rebel]

This has to be the most asinine and ridiculous thread posted on THR so far! To consider a tool to be somehow "evil" because it was used for a nefarious purpose is so absurd that you have to ask yourself why the question was even posed in the first place. And to those (me included) who responded.... why?????

[craig_o]

my yugo m70b1 AKM was probably used in the serbian conflicts... the gas piston even has some scorch marks. hard to say, maybe impossible to say, which side it was on.

I don't fault the weapon. It merely does what it is directed to do. By the same token, I'm certainly NOT going to be seeking out Waffen SS memorabilia or anything.

[Gord]

Atrocities and crimes have been committed by soldiers on all sides

Truer words, and all that.

Would you pass on buying a Garand because it may have been used to kill a German who was trying to surrender? Why would you want a Makarov, knowing that Russia purged hundreds, thousands and millions of her own people?

It's not just milsurps - any used gun you buy from a gun shop or a private party may have been used in a suicide, homicide, to pistol-whip a wife, to kill an animal "just for fun," to shoot up a bunch of road signs, and so on...

I only said that I prefer not to own guns (or axes, or chainsaws, or rope, or cars) that may have been used for something unspeakable in the past.

So you're saying that for every inanimate object you buy, you trace its history back to the day it was made? :scrutiny:

You sure that none of your belts were used to beat kids or spouses? Might wanna throw 'em out and buy new ones from Walmart, just to be safe. Wait! - how do you know those belts weren't made by child sweatshop workers? Better go strip some tree bark and weave your own, just to be extra super-duper safe. Waaait - how do you know that nobody ever got hanged from that tree, or that some ancient bandit killer didn't use it for shade? Aw crap.

You see where I'm going with this? Your core concept can be explored so far down the road of ridiculosity that you can't ever hope to stay within the bounds you've set for yourself. Hell, I'd bet dollars to doughnuts that the ground you walk on every day, and the ground that your house is built upon, has seen blood spilt in anger at some point in history since mankind learned how to throw rocks and make spears.

I'm with everybody else. You smell like troll, sorry. Or are you just one of those "I'm going to have my service gun melted down when I retire so it can never be stolen or sold and used to kill a fellow officer" cops? :rolleyes:

[macFarlaine]

What about owning a firearm that has a well documented history.One that is known to have been used in mass murder or executions.There are collectors out there that are only interested in these firearms.

[Mannix]

I really couldn't care less. A gun is nothing but a tool in the killer's hand.

[Ala Dan]

Yes, I would like too own the Colt D-frame used in the slaying of Lee Harvey
Oswald; but I didn't have $225,000 cash just lying 'round the house~! :uhoh:

[macFarlaine]

You have stronger stomachs than me.

[DrewH]

Can we cut back on the troll accusations against anyone who doesn't think exactly like we do? Thought this, and the reasonable gun law poll, were interesting, thought provoking questions, actually. And if the gun grabbers are going to argue some gun owners support some gun control based on that poll--well I do support some, I guess. I think it is pointless, and untrue, to argue gun owners are of one mind on everything.

As for this poll, I know some people who won't buy AKs because they are associated with Communism. But for myself, I find the history behind military surplus items to be one of the draws. And I treasure a Winchester lever action that my Dad, who was basically a decent man, did use to threaten my mother with at least once occasion when he was drunk.

[Crunker1337]

A tool is a tool, and is not responsible for its actions. If anything, preservation of such tools is a contribution to historical artifacts.
And if you see a gun as more than a tool, it could be argued that one has a responsibility to give it a chance to be used for good.

[Constantine-p89]

I answered buy to preserve history.

[RKBABob]

Can we cut back on the troll accusations against anyone who doesn't think exactly like we do? No, apparently, they can not. Nor are questions allowed...
... unless they are rigged to lead to a predictable answer that the majority will agree upon.

This forum is not what it used to be, and I for one am growing tired of it.

[TokyoShapiro]

There may be bad karma or mojo for a time. But, guns don't kill people- people do. Sad, isn't it?

[ArmedBear]

Last week, I got a rare opportunity to see and handle an enormous private collection of guns from the early days of Montana, before it was a state. AFAIK no museum has a collection like this; the owner's family settled in the area in 1864, and some of these guns were acquired from friends or inherited from relatives; I don't think many, if any, have ever seen the open market -- or even the light of day in 100 years.

Many were used for evil, or for good; some were used such that it's hard to figure out which side their users were on. A crooked sheriff's gun, the guns that belonged to the vigilantes who went after him, criminals' guns, settlers' guns, buffalo hunters' guns.

They were all from the 1860s-1880s. Nothing "spooky" about them, really. Time heals all wounds, or maybe they just become "history".

[CZ 42]

The history of a gun is interesting to think about while you're driving home from the range with it. I would also submit that seeing a weapon that was used in a war can help make you realize that it really did happen, because after all, you are holding historical proof. That, and price, is why I love milsurps.

[Whitebassfisher]

I don't buy guns based on who may have used them or how previous owners used them. If it is the right action and caliber or gauge, then I may be interested. It does interest me in how technologically advanced the maker was at the time. A gun may be a work of art, or may reflect great engineering, or be the result of a mechanical genius. If I was more a student of history, I may be of a different opinion. To me, a modern gun is not as surprising as a 100 year old gun.

[Gord]

Nor are questions allowed...

It's the way the questions are worded. If you're being called a troll, it's most likely because many have seen the same thing before *from* trolls.

I still question how you ascertain that nothing you own has been used for "evil" purposes.

[DMK]

I would only buy military arms older than XXX years, because the bad mojo has worn off by then.LOL! :D

Two folks actually voted for that one. :p

I just hire the local Indian medicine man to do a little dance around my guns. Plus the incense smoke makes my house smell nice. :D

[GBExpat]

It doesn't bother me one bit.

[twodawgs]

I've got to believe that I missed reading the most obvious comment of all:

Guns don't kill people, people kill people.

Prior use of a weapon would likely never enter my mind as a consideration of purchase.

[DMK]

Not because of any history particular to that gun, just because I LOATHE the swastika and everything it representsYou loathe good luck and well being?

Actually, the Nazis hijacked a good and peaceful symbol.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika

[Regolith]

It is simply a tool. It has no moral standing, no moral fiber. It is neither good, nor evil. It just is. Only the person using the tool can determine what task it will be used for. To suggest that because a certain group of people used a certain firearm for nefarious reasons that the firearm itself is evil, is buying into the same BS that anti-gunners use when they try and place a moral judgement on an inanimate object.

[230RN]

OK as long as the blood didn't take off the blueing and maybe get it all rusty.

[CZ 42]

You know, I'd contest that an object can be evil. You know the SAW films?
How could the torture devices in them be used for good? How can a teddy bear be used for evil? I know there are ways, like a bomb in the teddy bear, but do you see what I mean? However, a gun is not one of those things. It's neutral. Do you hate a japanese POW killer or his Nambu pistol?

[jackmead]

That was a pretty stupid question, I would expect that from some airhead newsbabe on TV that gets upset because Lugers were used by nazis.

[1911Tuner]

The Nazi swastika represents a dark period in German history, and it means a lot of things to the people who fell under its influence.

So does the Confederate battle flag...aka "The Southern Cross"...and though I'm not one of those people who have a problem with it, I respect the opinions of those who do, even though it had nothing to do with oppression. I still own an 1862-pattern Richmond rifled musket, though. I also own an 1863 Remington "Zouave" rifle that was slated to be issued to Union soldiers during the same conflict. I like rifles. I especially like well-made rifles that have a history...or replicas of the same. I very much like '98 Mausers. Damn fine rifles...even though they were the general issue arm of the German Army in WW2. Again...Not all German soldiers were Nazis.

It could probably be accurately stated that the American flag holds some bad mojo for the American Indian...particularly the Plains Indians. I also own an 1859-pattern Sharps Cavalry carbine...and will soon own an 1874 Sharps
Business Rifle...one of which represented the near-extinction of their life's blood...the American Bison.

It could go on and on...but the point is pretty clear. It wasn't symbols and weapons that brought shame and grief. It was the people who used them. Assigning "evil" to an artifact is exactly what our political enemies try to do when they try to make us believe that guns cause crime.

[davepool]

Ditto , jackmead

[IndianaBoy]

I wouldn't mind having a weapon that had fought in an number of wars.

In fact, I would prefer a Garand that had some Omaha beach sand in it. Fascinating piece of history, a link to the brave men who carried them. That fact that it helped liberate the concentration camps doesn't hurt.

So it killed some Nazis.... so what? It's a machine. It doesn't have a soul, good or evil.

[rockinrussky]

Having bought a 91/30 Mosin at a gun show, I felt more irony than anything else. A vast majority of these rifles were originally manufactured to spread the Communist power across the world... whereas now its used to serve as a capitalist tool for trading in the western free market. Ahh, if only they knew :rolleyes:

[jimbob86]

The reason animal rights activists are more passionate about fur than leather is because it's safer to harrass rich women than bikers...

Now that's funny right there, I don't care who you are...... less'n yer a PETA member what just tho'd red paint on a biker........

The idea that inanimate objects are good or evil is the root of HOPLOPHOBIA. It is the only (note I did not say rational) explanation of the popularity of gun control....

[bcp]

I'll bet some of the money in my back pocket has been used for evil and illegal purposes.

I can't tell which, though.

Bruce

[GaryP]

A gun has no say in how it is used. It is the individual that makes the decision, bad or good, on how the gun is used. The gun is blameless, therefore; I do not consider what a particular gun was used for when considering a purchase.


:evil:

[Autolycus]

I dont care.

If we start to impart mythical status on guns then we are buying into stupidity.

[denfoote]

I have a Makarov that reportedly belonged to a mobster.

[Professor K]

I have a Gew 88, and it has writing on the stock, and looks like it saw battle. Whoever has the AK with "ninja" written on the stock, I want that badly. I like weapons with history, even bad history.

I do get vibes from some inanimate objects, too, but usually vibe alone isnt enough to make me not buy something. If the history was a bad history based on how bad the product was, ie, a car that got into a crash and killed the occupants, because the brakes didnt work and the car stopped steering, then I likely would not buy it, because it could get me hurt someday.

I wouldnt have a problem buying, say, a gun that was used by a crackhead to shoot another crackhead from a police auction, because I know I'm not gonna use it to kill innocent people, and it didnt magically posess the user to go shoot someone else.

I'd also like to have guns used for famous crime, too, because it's historical. It'd be a showpiece, owning a gun used by John Dillinger, or Oswald's Carcano rifle, or even (I'll prolly catch some flak for this) guns used in more recent stuff, like Columbine. Why? To preserve history, I guess. Bad history is still history, and while it shouldnt be glorified, at the same time, it shouldnt be never talked about. Maybe it's morbid, but they're future historical artifacts, and someone has to preserve them. Even in the case of a gun used by crackheads or drug dealers, in the future, that gun will just be an artifact of Prohibition II, just as Dillingers pistols and stuff are worth many thousands of dollars, there will be guns around from now that will be worth lots of money/museum space in a few decades.

Oh, by the way, most of the AK kits that arent in super new rearsenaled condition or whatever, and look like they were buried for years, likely were. A lot of the AK kits are from Serbia, especially the really beat up Yugos. A lot are actually from mass graves. Ever wonder why there's dirt in the barrel? Rifles in a warehouse wont get that dirty...

Lots of soldiers were just thrown into big huge mass graves, rifles and all, and now people are looking for stuff to salvage on all the battlefields of Yugoslavia. So they find the old rifles, they dont really need them, and rather than melting them down for a few cents worth of scrap metal, they send them to Century Arms, and Century cuts the reciever in pieces, and sends it to America, where it'll sell for 100 dollars, and also further 2a by having more guns. The mass grave thing probably does not apply to cosmolined rifles, but still, anything Yugo, unless it's very very good looking, it's my opinion it's probably seen conflict.

I've heard tons of stories about people getting wierd stuff on AK kits, like 90210 and ninja turtles stickers, I heard one guy got a piece of scalp with hair stuck to the gas chamber of his cheap Romanian AK kit, he also said all the parts were filled with dirt.

http://www.ar15.com/lite/topic.html?b=4&f=51&t=100289&page=1

There's a good thread about Yugo AK kits and some of the interesting stuff people have found on them. Here's some quotes from the thread.

I got those same stickers on mags from the old SG mag deal. Ninja turtles and Beverly Hills 90210 must be really popular over in that part of the world.


I have a Yugo M70B2 Underfolder that has "DUKA" on one side of the handguard and seven notched "X's" on the other.....we all know what the x's mean...

I also have a carved Yugo stock and forward grip that has an inscription that translates as " God Help Me" or maybe its "Help Me God"

Rifling is strong and passes the bullet test w/ flying colors. Only small complaints are a little bloodstaining on the dustcover and slight pitting in a frosted barrel.

[doberman]

Guns are amoral objects period. Only the actions of men are to be judged to be moral or immoral.

God does not judge inanimate objects and I don't either.

I feel I have a moral obligation to use all of my guns for good and just purposes regardless of where it came from or it's past.

I was willed a WWI era 1911 from my father who purchased it from a close friend of his whose son committed suicide with it in the late 70's. Stricken with grief his friend just couldn't "have it in the house anymore".

Before that terrible incident, that 1911 was a cherished family heirloom carried over by his grandfather that saw combat with it in Europe.

You decide. Is that gun evil or not? I don't think so.

It sits in my safe to this day, niether "evil" nor "good", and I don't lose a wink of sleep over it knowing it is in good hands.

[Working Man]

Sure would..... the more souls on it the longer I live. :rolleyes:

As was stated earlier..... my wallet may have money used to buy drugs,
sex, and even a hit. Hell some of it may have even paid a politicians salary.

[RKBABob]

I did not say milsurp guns are evil.
I simply asked if it would bother anyone to find out that their collector's piece was used that way.

I did not say a gun was anything other than a tool.
I only asked if it would bother you to own a tool that was once misused.

I did not say that milsurps should be banned.
I just asked if anyone would be bothered if a piece had a "bad" history.
Please, loosen your tinfoil hats a bit so the circulation comes back to your brain.
I am not Sarah Brady, and this is not a conspiracy by the U.N. to take your Mosin Nagants.

I did not say that a "used" gun could become evil.
I know its an inanimate object. I never said otherwise.

I did not say its wrong to own such guns.
I just happen not to want certain guns, say ones manufactured under the Nazi regime, in my collection.

Oh my gosh! RKBABob doesn't want to own Hitler's personal sidearm!!! He must be an anti!


MODS, please put this thread out of its misery.

[Pepper46]

How do you feel about using a hammer that has smashed a thumb?
Same goes for a firearm. It isn't the tool, it is the user. How do you know whether that civil war pistol was used by North or South? With out personal knowledge of course.
I would give a M1 Garand a special place in my home, knowing that it was used to protect my freedoms, or any other US weapon for that matter.

[Vitamin G]

I own a 1943 Garand, which very likely saw much action.

The gun itself isn't good or evil, but the actions of which it was able to be a part of commands my respect, and so it gets a place of honor above my television. Sometimes, when the lights are low and the program or sitcom is crappy, i just stare at it, and wish we could have a conversation about the things its seen, and the men who cared for it, even if just for five minutes. I can't say it doesn't bother me, but it doesn't bother me in a bad way.

Kinda the way that Jenny McCarthy would get me bothered...

[jefnvk]

Whats wrong with a PPK?

[Joe Demko]

I don't want any Nazi or Bolshevik guns. I'm not into keeping souveniers of murderers. The guns themselves are inanimate objects and have no intrinsic value beyond being guns. Here's the thing: they don't interest me as guns and their historical provenance disgusts me. I don't want Jeffrey Dahmer's butcher knife or David Berkowitz's Charter Arms .44 either.

[RKBABob]

jefnvk wrote: Whats wrong with a PPK?Absolutely nothing. Its a fine little pistol. I included it in the poll because it is the only gun I could think of that saw extensive use in the European theatre during WWII, and is still manufactured today.

From WikiPedia:
The PP was released in 1929 and the PPK followed in 1931. Both pistols were popular with European police and civilian shooters. The pistols were reliable and easy to conceal. During World War II both variants of the pistol were issued to German military police, Luftwaffe, and other support personnel, as well as officials of the Nazi Party. Adolf Hitler used his PPK to kill himself as Soviet forces closed in on the Führerbunker in Berlin.

Of course, the PPK became really cool again when it was featured as the issued sidearm of James Bond, 007! It remains a popular gun today, especially in the Good Ol' US ofA, where more PPK's are sold than anywhere else on Earth.

With that said, I'd love a new one... but would NOT want a milsurp version with Nazi proof marks.

[RKBABob]

Joe Demko wrote: I don't want any Nazi or Bolshevik guns. I'm not into keeping souveniers of murderers. The guns themselves are inanimate objects and have no intrinsic value beyond being guns. Here's the thing: they don't interest me as guns and their historical provenance disgusts me. I don't want Jeffrey Dahmer's butcher knife or David Berkowitz's Charter Arms .44 either.

Thanks, Joe. That's how I feel about the subject...

History keeps me from falling in love with some milsurp firearms. (Now if I could only figure out why some people act like I just kicked the Pope for saying so... then I'd be happy).

[1911Tuner]

Bob...We understand what you asked, but you sorta left the thread open to the way the discussion drifted, given the present strategies and tactics of the emenies of 2A/RKBA. If you'd included the disclaimers that you posted above, it might not have drifted quite that far off the original question.

I'll go ahead and vote NO. Owning a gun with a history wouldn't bother me at all. Many collectors actively search for such weapons...and for many of them...the more notorious/nefarious/jaded the history, the better.

Anyway as per your request:

MODS, please put this thread out of its misery.

Your wish is my command.

[1911Tuner]

On request of the original pollster.