[j0eco0l]

My dad just emailed me and said he bought the following gun at an auction last night. He did not send a picture and he does not know what it is. Neither do I. Have any of you heard of such a gun? If so, where can I find more info on it?

GARATE AMTUAY CIA EL BAR ESPANA SADDLE RING CAL.44L

:confused::what:

I'd appreciate any help from you experts out there. I know this is not much to go on. I'll see if I can get a picture. He did not say but I'm guessing it is a rifle or carbine of some kind.

Joe
:banghead:

[hso]

http://www.dixiegunworks.com/product_info.php?cPath=21_24_73&products_id=12930&osCsid=3818d4574cb982e3b84f45908824563c
Spanish made replica of the Winchester Model 1892 carbine. It is in .44 caliber. The barrel is marked on top "GARATE ANITUA Y Cia EIBAR-ESPANA." "CAL 44L" is stamped on top of the barrel above the chamber.

http://www.dixiegunworks.com/images/17088.JPG

That it?

[WaltonS]

same thing I found Googling from a different site. Must be right.

[rust collector]

but the rest of the designation seems to indicate it's a model 92 or 94 replica made in Eibar, Spain.

I'm a little leery of the caliber designation, so might be wise to cast the chamber. Most are chambered for the 45 Colt, also known as 45 long Colt. A 44 could be magnum, special, Russian, or 44-40, so better to be safe than sorry.

[BEARMAN]

These were made in .44-40 before the .44 mag was invented and before anyone thought of using the small rimmed .45 colt in a rifle (the .45 colt now has the same rim dia. as a .44 mag). But it is always wise to check the chamber you never know who has done what to any old gun, over the past 90 or so years .

[j0eco0l]

Thanks HSO. That's the one I was looking for. I sent your link to my dad and he said that's it. I appreciate all of your help.

Joe
:)

[Roswell 1847]

The Spanish made a lot of model 92 copies in .44/40 for police and sporting use. They were called an "El Tigre".
Quiet a few of the lever action rifles that you see in the old western TV series were el Tigre copies.

[SDC]

Garate went out of business during the Spanish Civil War (1939 or thereabouts), but they sold this rifle as the "Tigre"; it should be marked as such somewhere on the barrel or tang.

[Jim K]

Duplicate. Sorry.

Jim

[Jim K]

Hi, Bearman,

The rim DIAMETER of the .45 Colt and .44 Magnum is the same (.508") but the rim width is not. The .45 Colt has a head diameter of .480", meaning there is only an .016" rim. That small rim was necessitated by the diameter of the cylinder on the SAA, and didn't matter on that gun because it had a rod ejector. But on rifles, and revolvers with hand ejection, like the Colt New Service, the small rim resulted in poor extraction. That is why the wider rim U.S. Model 1909 cartridge was adopted for the Model 1909 revolver, a New Service.

And that is why, up to recent times, no one chambered a rifle for the .45 Colt. Today, of course, those guns are used as playtoys and if one malfunctions once in a while, it doesn't matter much. The shooter may lose his temper, but won't lose his scalp.

Jim