230gr. JHP or 230gr. FMJ?


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Jaenak
December 6, 2007, 06:07 PM
Okay, now for another "this one or that one" question I have. I know these kind of questions can get kinda irritating under the wrong circumstances but there's alot I don't know.

I'm of the personal opinion that you should buy a long barrel unless you just can't accomidate one. If you can't then depending how short you go, you might loose too much velocity which will force you to go with a lighter bullet to retain the speed. But, if you can avoid losing the speed, then get a heavier bullet. I personally like the idea of the 230 grain bullets for the sake of the extra "oomph" it has over, lets say, a 165 grain bullet.

I've got an idea and I need all you who actually know what the hell you're talking about to tell me if I'm on the right track or not. On the one hand, you need size because a baseball sized hole (exagerated on purpose) will do much more damage than a hole the size of a ball bearing. On the other hand, if the baseball sized projectile doesn't penetrate far enough, it becomes ineffective and requires you to switch objects. A JHP will leave a bigger hole, but the .45ACP is slow enough as it is. If you get a slow object to expand, won't there be a possibility that it's expanded size and thus flat face might hinder it's penetration too much? On the other hand, the FMJ won't leave as big a hole as the JHP but I would imagine that the rounded face and the momentum would carry the bullet far enough in that the FMJ might be more effective than the JHP. After all, the FMJ is already big enough as it is, I'm not sure it really needs to be that much bigger to be effective does it?

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Conqueror
December 6, 2007, 06:32 PM
The FBI considers 12" of gel penetration sufficient for use in shooting people. Most JHP 230gr .45 ammo gets 12-14" of penetration, most hardball gets 16+". The point being, even JHPs should be able to reach a BG's vitals. The 12" requirement is to ensure that a bullet can kill even if it goes through an arm first or hits a bone; a COM chest hit with a JHP should still penetrate plenty to terminate the assailant.

R&J
December 6, 2007, 06:47 PM
Overpenetration is also a consideration in an urban setting--especially for a LEO or citizen home defense.

Rapid expanding JHP bullets will likely not exit the perp, or an exterior wall, in the event of a miss. Whereas a FMJ ball round might pass through several houses, until stopped by a brick.

Some JHP designs will seriously deform with a window hit, while the FMJ will mostly just get a change of vector.

Frangible rounds are another choice for apartments, condos, etc. These lose cohesion rapidly when impacting windows, walls, etc., but inflict nasty wounds on a perp at close range.

--Ray

Geno
December 6, 2007, 06:52 PM
Here is the boar I hunted with the 230 Gr JHPs. If they dropped a boar, they would stop a bad-guy:

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e364/Doc2005/Russian2.jpg

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e364/Doc2005/HPIM2624.jpg

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e364/Doc2005/HPIM2627.jpg

Jaenak
December 6, 2007, 07:08 PM
Thanks for the direction. I was kinda curious about that.

Soybomb
December 6, 2007, 07:37 PM
A .45 is capable of penetrating deep enough while still expanding. I'd go with a jhp in anything 9mm or larger.

jonboynumba1
December 6, 2007, 08:40 PM
http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd166/jonboynumba1/jondeer3.jpg

This was actually shot with a .460 Rowland 1911 with a 185gr Nolser JHP going over 1500 FPS (about 400-500 FPS hotter than most regular or +P .45 loads) It demonstrated to me what I have always felt about 185 .45 loads. Great initail "smack" and rapid expansion but sacrifcing adequate pentration (even super-charged by the Rowland chambering). It was shot 15-18 yards roughly...in the neck. Mushroomed to probablt better than .60 (other poster reminded me I still need to mic and photo the slug...great pics by the way and congrats!) yet it failed to exit loding just under the skin on farside. You could have shoved a garden hose in the hole it made but it would have blead out twice as fast had it exited. I now have 100 rounds a brass and am going to load some 230gr XTP JHPS at a more reasonable velocity and see if around 1100-1200fps isn't the charm.

I had a bud shoot a buck with a 230gr federal hyrashock the same weekend as mine...I haven't gotten the full details yet but I know it dropped hiom quick and clean (forgot to ask if he got full pentration) It was under the "unexpected buck opertunity" category while squirrel hunting...he just happened to have his commander on. Ideal hunting rounds to me would be anything around .45 with a 240-250gr bullet going about 1200-1300 FPS Keith found that formula worked pretty well in the .44 mag. Unfortunately that's a bit big for carry and deffensive use...but with good ammo the humble .45 gets a "close enough" performance rating with much more shootable characteristics that make it even better as a deffensive round. So while no handgun is really powerful enough...some are closer than others. If you want to make a 1911 perform like a lesser cartridge load a 165 or 185gr bullet in it. 230gr. is what .45 is all about afterall. I like 200gr SWC for target plinking though...and while I've played with some hotter 200gr JHP loads I've never "done anything with them" yet to allow a performance judgement. I did put a 1K pound cow down with a 230gr +P corbon though...first one did it...second one was just to be sure/humane. I'm sure a regular 230gr load would have done nearly the same thing.

All things being equal...make mine a .45!! :D

TOADMAN
December 7, 2007, 11:17 AM
Doc2005, was wondering if the above pictured 45ACP ammo is WWB 230grn JHP Personal Protection (USA45JHP)?.. Sure looks like it.. Am I correct to assume the two fired slugs were removed from the boar? Ray

Geno
December 7, 2007, 11:37 AM
Ray:

Yes, and the weight retention was quite high, about 97%. Oddly enough, I misinterpreted the box and thought they were appropriate for hunting too. :o Live, learn and suffer a little humiliation.

Doc2005

TOADMAN
December 7, 2007, 11:46 AM
Doc, I use the WWB 230grn JHP for self defense vice the high dollar stuff.. From your WWB boar hunting experience, seems as if the WWB JHP will do well for self defense.. Thanks for sharing. Ray

BAT1
December 7, 2007, 12:05 PM
Try the Aguila IQ 117 gr alloy ammo for H/D. It travels at 1450 fps, has 546 ft lbs of knock down power. If it hits something hard, it penetrates, if it hits some thing soft it breaks up and leaves three wound channels. Recoil is the same. I found it for 14.00 per 20.

rjk2475
December 7, 2007, 12:10 PM
does FMJ feed more reliably?

GRIZ22
December 7, 2007, 12:30 PM
does FMJ feed more reliably?

Generally yes, in older guns. However, a properly set up (by the factory, no gunsmithing required) modern shouldn't care if you're feeding it FMJ or JHP. I have older straight GI 1911s that have no problem with JHPs or SWCs.

TOADMAN
December 7, 2007, 12:38 PM
Try the Aguila IQ 117 gr alloy ammo for H/D. It travels at 1450 fps, has 546 ft lbs of knock down power. If it hits something hard, it penetrates, if it hits some thing soft it breaks up and leaves three wound channels. Recoil is the same. I found it for 14.00 per 20.

WOW.. don't know if I would trust a bullet that is smarter than me. I guess it is something worth looking-at... At my age I tend to resist change from something that already works well...

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