Call me insane


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Dr.Rob
July 21, 2003, 06:31 PM
But I kind of want to bid on this thing.

http://www.gunbroker.com/auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=10349196

Looks like the internals are messy, because the trigger is all the way back and the hammer isn't.

Any of you revolver experts know what might be wrong with it?

(Aside from the fact that its a 32 cal Fitz-ed out pimp gun that looks like a knuckle duster.):D

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Archie
July 21, 2003, 07:29 PM
You're insane.



















Could be an interesting historical piece. Buy it and then track down who it was sold to originally. Could be Eliot Ness' ankle rig.

Blueduck
July 21, 2003, 07:37 PM
Shipping, transfer fee, possible new parts to fix action, possible having to pay someone to do the actual work..All for a not too expensive anyway, likely amateur chopped up gun:confused:

Even if you got it for $5 I'd think you would still be coming out behind in the end...

Snake Eyes
July 21, 2003, 07:37 PM
You ARE insane!

Want A Colt Nik Dick Special?? Why not buy this one: Nik Dick .32 (http://www.auctionarms.com/Closed/DisplayItem.cfm?ItemNum=4270248.0)

Oooops. Too late. I bought it.

Well then, how about THIS one??? Nik Dick .38 (http://www.gunbroker.com/auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=9974917)

Ooooops. Too late. I bought that one too.

Now you can call ME insane for what I paid, and you won't feel so bad about buying that piece of fecal frisbee.

firestar
July 21, 2003, 07:57 PM
Looks like the seller is legit but that gun shouldn't be started at $100. It should have been a fix it special and he should take what he can get.

Dr.Rob
July 21, 2003, 08:14 PM
See, I already have a Stainless Snubby Colt... in 357.

It's just so odd its cute.

Snake Eyes
July 21, 2003, 08:20 PM
It's just so odd its cute.

You're not only insane, you're weird!

Old Fuff
July 21, 2003, 08:28 PM
Well now ….

While I live in Arizona, I used to reside in Kalamazoo, MI. and I know the gun shop that’s selling the gun. It’s a good outfit and thoroughly reputable too do business with, but I’m going to have to explain too them that they don’t know beans about old Colts.

It isn’t a Detective Special. I can’t be absolutely sure without examining the gun, but I think it’s a “New Police” model or a very early “Police Positive.” It was most likely made during the first decade of the 20th century.

It may be chambered for the .32 S&W Long cartridge, or if it’s a New Police it could be chambered for the .32 Long Colt. If that the case the chamber will be bored straight through rather then have a shoulder in the front. The difference could matter because .32 Long Colt cartridges are very hard to find.

The New Police and Police Positive (especially the latter) are similar to the Detective Special but have a slightly shorter cylinder and frame. Later production Police Positives chambered in .38 S&W (not Special) make good “Fitz Special’s” and they are excellent pocket guns.

I’m not sure about this one. It apparently has some unidentified internal problems, and if parts were needed they might be hard too find. It does seem to be an interesting collectable and conversation piece, and as such it might be worth the currently ask-for 100 bucks.

Standing Wolf
July 21, 2003, 10:26 PM
Looks like an old time pimp gun to me. It's definitely not a D frame, but I couldn't tell you what it actually might be.

Jim March
July 22, 2003, 12:55 AM
You know, to me that little booger DOES look cool.

Something else interesting - I was recently pointed to a page on FBI agent Jelly Bryce:

http://www.gutterfighting.org/jellybryce.html

Now look at how he's holding his gun in this pre-WW2 pic:

http://www.gutterfighting.org/files/bryce.jpg

Look carefully at the grip panel visible and where his fingers are. Correct me if I'm wrong, but Bryce has to be using a grip surprisingly similar to the little "Fitz Special" Dr. Rob was so intrigued by. Bryce's grip position does NOT match that of a Tyler T-grip adapter, the finger position is way wrong.

It suggests Bryce was using a true customized grip, and the piece Dr. Rob found is both contemporary with Bryce and of a roughly similar type, made for shooting in the low type of "FBI Crouch" hold favored by Bryce (shown in the pic above).

SnWnMe
July 22, 2003, 02:34 AM
Hey, even if the gun is not worth anything, that First Model "skeletonized" Tyler Grip Adapter might be worth a fortune!;)

stans
July 22, 2003, 06:17 AM
I don't think this revolver has any practical use, it is more of an oddity and collector's piece. The machine work looks nicely done, but the mechanicals obviously have some problems.

Tamara
July 22, 2003, 11:02 AM
That thing is so hideous that it's actually kind of cool. :uhoh:

Jason Demond
July 22, 2003, 05:37 PM
It makes me want to cry!:(

Mikul
July 23, 2003, 03:15 PM
With the trigger guard removed, this could be a dangerous gun to carry. What he may have had done is to remove the trigger return spring, so that you have to push the trigger out to engage it. It reminds me of the single action revolvers whose triggers drop when you cock the hammer. I would definitely ask what's up with that.

The metal behind the trigger guard is an unusual application of an old solution. Many revolver grips fill that space in to help the shooter get a high grip on the gun.

Dr.Rob
July 23, 2003, 04:33 PM
No intention of carrying it, I have newer Colts for that, just as a"neat" thing.

Old Fuff
July 23, 2003, 06:59 PM
Dr. Rob:

I answered your personal message by E-Mail, but I'm not sure it went out. If you haven't received something get back to me here, and I'll send the information you want again.

Okiecruffler
July 23, 2003, 10:22 PM
If nothing else, I'll bet it has $100 worth of history behind it. If only it could talk...

RustyHammer
July 24, 2003, 04:43 PM
You're insane.

CMcDermott
July 24, 2003, 05:18 PM
Are the grips plastic (look kinda shiny to me), or real ivory? The checkering on the grip adapter is obviously done by hand, and poorly enough that I think they used a standard three-sided file instead of checkering files. Shortened barrel with a ramp front sight, bobbed hammer, cut-off trigger guard, weakened (delibrately or through age) trigger return spring - if it weren't for the poor checkering job on the grip adaptor one might think that Fitzgerald himself worked this gun over.

It sounds really cool to me. Too bad it's probably impossible to trace the history of this gun - I would bet that it's very interesting. Fitz specials were only used by real gunmen - often LEO's who were worried enough to want the instant accessiblity of a pistol carried in your front pants pocket (they were pretty roomy in the thirties) or coat pocket and able to be fired through the garment - and were willing to put up with the obvious danger of not having the front of the trigger guard. These weren't pistols for someone who thought he might need a gun sometime, they were for someone who knew he needed a gun to save his life, and it might be in the next 5 minutes.

Jim March
July 24, 2003, 07:38 PM
Ya, that's what's so cool about it.

That was somebody's warhorse...a pure fighting handgun for bad times.

Byron Quick
July 24, 2003, 09:58 PM
I've got some ivory that's about thirty to forty years older than that gun if it's from around 1910. It's just as yellow and just as shiny. The plastics I've seen from that period don't look like that but I am by no means an expert. On the other hand, if they are ivory it seems the description would mention it.

Ivory headed sword cane from last quarter 19th century: http://www.olegvolk.net/newphotos/scane.jpg

10-Ring
July 24, 2003, 10:11 PM
Hey, if you like it & can afford it, buy it! ;)

Oh yeah, you're insane! :D

DAL
July 25, 2003, 10:14 AM
Thanks for the permission, but I don't think I'll take you up on it.

If you like it, and I'm assuming you must if you took the time to post about it on THR, why not bid on it? Heck, you're a Dr., you can afford it. Of course, it might cost several times what you pay for it to get it in good working order,
but sometimes new guns today need extra work to perfect them.
DAL

Keith
July 25, 2003, 12:10 PM
I'd throw $100 at a gun like that and never look back. That piece was owned by someone who knew something about gunfighting. It's American history, pure and simple.

Keith

CMcDermott
July 25, 2003, 05:02 PM
Okay, this is what Dr. Rob found, a 32 Colt Pocket Positive
http://www.gunbroker.com/pixhost/2003-07-13/on_target_1058118443_MVC-006F.JPG

and this is what it should look like
http://www.gunbroker.com/pixhost/2003-07-20/City_Pawn_Shops_1058916677_MVC-009F.JPG

Old Fuff
July 25, 2003, 05:32 PM
Well you’re close, but not exactly right. What you are showing is a Colt “New Pocket” model (note the smaller, rounded butt). Some 30,000 were made between 1893 through 1905. In 1905 Colt superseded it with the “Pocket Positive” that was similar, but had a “positive” hammer block. They were made from 1905 to 1940.

I think the highly modified revolver Dr. Rob is interested in started life as an early “Police Positive” model (note the more square butt with rounded corners that were added when the gun was modified). That said, it could also be a very late Colt “New Police” model. It was similar to the Police Positive but lacked the hammer block. The New Police was made from 1896 to 1907 and the Police Positive replaced it thereafter.

I doubt that anyone gives a hoot about all of this, but in the unlikely chance that someone is . . . well now you know. I will say this about the gun that started all of this, “it is ugly, and it has seen better days, but whoever carried it must have been something else. It isn’t something you’d see everyday.”

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