More Band of Brothers !


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Deadman
July 21, 2003, 09:07 PM
Just heard on the Fox Report that Steven Spielberg and his 'Band of Brothers crew' will start production on another 10 part BoB tv series. This time set in the Pacific theatre.

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Destructo6
July 21, 2003, 09:20 PM
Sweet, can't wait.

firestar
July 21, 2003, 09:25 PM
That is good news, I really liked the first series. When is it going to air? HBO again right?

dfariswheel
July 22, 2003, 12:56 AM
If they base it on a real unit, and use the real vets as advisers, like Band of Brothers, it should be good. Nothing works like the bare truth.

If they do the typical Hollywood hit movie follow-up and base it on a fictional story, it's a toss up.

Boats
July 22, 2003, 01:53 AM
Here's your chance. Who should they follow to remain true to the BoB formula of following one unit throughout the war.

I'm no military historian, but there has to be a way to follow an infantry unit of the Second Marine Division through World War II.

Some members of this unit served in the following battles: Pearl Harbor, Guadalcanal, Tarawa (where it was awarded a Presidential Unit Citation), and on to Saipan, Tinian, and Okinawa.

That'd be a wild ride. End it with word of the atomic bombs hitting Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Your nominees?

six 4 sure
July 22, 2003, 02:12 AM
Hmmm. I forsee this will push me over the edge and I will be forced to finally buy a Garand.:D

six

Dr.Rob
July 22, 2003, 02:13 AM
No brainer, the story of "Flags of Our Fathers" the two raisings of the flags at Iwo Jima, and the lives of those few who survived.

444
July 22, 2003, 02:18 AM
"Hmmm. I forsee this will push me over the edge and I will be forced to finally buy a Garand"

I bought one after the first mini-series. Still sitting in the closet in an un-opened box.


I hope they keep this thing Army.

4v50 Gary
July 22, 2003, 02:18 AM
Concur with Dr. Rob. Flags of Our Father was a big seller nationally (as well it should be) and would be an excellant basis for a series.

Boats
July 22, 2003, 02:47 AM
I hope they keep this thing Army.

I don't. Not only does it have that "been there, done that feel" all of the later epic battles in the Pacific were fought exclusively by the Corps as the Army is pretty much out of the picture after the Phillipines were secured and they were gearing up for Operation Olympic.

IMO, you can't do a Pacific story without Okinawa, or Iwo Jima, or trying to get through kamikaze attacks on troop ships, and the Army won't take you there historically. They also won't take you to Tarawa or Pelielu or any of the other mid-campaign's horrific battles.

The Army story in the Pacific has merit: Guadalcanal, Corregidor, the battle for Manila, among others, but it would also lack the continuity that following the Marines would provide.

The War in the Pacific was largely a Navy/Marine show in the northernmost approach. They should be given their due.

BamBam-31
July 22, 2003, 03:12 AM
Please, God, let this be true.

Any links?

Nevermind. Found one: www.spielbergfilms.com.

Gawd, the wait....:banghead:

Ian11
July 22, 2003, 04:40 AM
It is gonna be a long wait. But I have a feeling it'll be worth it. They've got a good formula so I doubt they'll deviate from BoB or SPR.

Cosmoline
July 22, 2003, 12:26 PM
My vote would be for a unit of the Second Infantry Division. That now-forgotten division fought from Attu to Okinawa. It would be a good chance to recreate Attu--one of the very first US amphibious assaults of the war and a horrible battle in every respect. I get the sense that 99% of those in the lower 48 have forgotten all about the Japanese invasion of Alaska.

But, in reality, it's bound to be about some Marines. The Army got their coverage in BoB part I.

wingnutx
July 22, 2003, 12:40 PM
I recently found my dad's copy of "Follow Me", the history of the 2nd Marines in the Pacific. Apparently the Corps sent a copy to everyone who served during WWII. The letter from the Commandant is still tucked into the jacket.

I'm sure that book would have a few clues for the producers.

simon
July 22, 2003, 01:06 PM
"Flags of Our Fathers" was a great suggestion!
Got my book autographed by the author and hes a really nice guy.

This can't be done re: the pacific theater w/o doing the story about the Marine Corps.
My suggestion would be to follow the Raiders,who did the island hopping campaign capturing the jap islands one at a time w/amphibous assaults.

shooten
July 22, 2003, 01:20 PM
From the Spielberg website:
The property will be an original work and not based on existing material (beyond historical fact, obviously) as BROTHERS was. BAND OF BROTHERS screenwriter Bruce McKenna is already in talks with Spielberg and Goetzman as they work toward developing the series.

Well, if this is true, we won't be seeing a true story in this mini-series. Too bad Stephen Ambrose didn't write something before he died. I'm sure it will be good. I don't believe Saving Private Ryan was based on a true story either.

Scott

MolonLabe416
July 22, 2003, 01:28 PM
The best book I've read on the Marines in the PTO was "With the Old Breed: At Peleliu and Okinawa".

It did a better job of "putting me there" than any book I've read. Highly recommended reading and would make an outstanding movie.

Here's some comments from www.amazon.com:

In his own book, Wartime, Paul Fussell called With the Old Breed "one of the finest memoirs to emerge from any war." John Keegan referred to it in The Second World War as "one of the most arresting documents in war literature." And Studs Terkel was so fascinated with the story he interviewed its author for his book, "The Good War." What has made E.B. Sledge's memoir of his experience fighting in the South Pacific during World War II so devastatingly powerful is its sheer honest simplicity and compassion.
Now including a new introduction by Paul Fussell, With the Old Breed presents a stirring, personal account of the vitality and bravery of the Marines in the battles at Peleliu and Okinawa. Born in Mobile, Alabama in 1923 and raised on riding, hunting, fishing, and a respect for history and legendary heroes such as George Washington and Daniel Boone, Eugene Bondurant Sledge (later called "Sledgehammer" by his Marine Corps buddies) joined the Marines the year after the bombing of Pearl Harbor and from 1943 to 1946 endured the events recorded in this book. In those years, he passed, often painfully, from innocence to experience.

Sledge enlisted out of patriotism, idealism, and youthful courage, but once he landed on the beach at Peleliu, it was purely a struggle for survival. Based on the notes he kept on slips of paper tucked secretly away in his New Testament, he simply and directly recalls those long months, mincing no words and sparing no pain. The reality of battle meant unbearable heat, deafening gunfire, unimaginable brutality and cruelty, the stench of death, and, above all, constant fear. Sledge still has nightmares about "the bloody, muddy month of May on Okinawa." But, as he also tellingly reveals, the bonds of friendship formed then will never be severed.

Sledge's honesty and compassion for the other marines, even complete strangers, sets him apart as a memoirist of war. Read as sobering history or as high adventure, With the Old Breed is a moving chronicle of action and courage.

And:

With the Old Breed, by E.B. Sledge is the best personal account of combat that I have ever read. It is brutally honest, as Sledge does not gloss over the horrific nightmare that is war.After reading Slede's book, it is no small wonder that 26,000 Americans lost their sanity in the Okinawa battle alone. He spares us none of the gory details, yet he delivers this true account in an eloquent style that gives the story even more impact. Sledge does not only desribe the fight against the Japanese,but also the mental battle raging within men on the front line, as he himself fights to remain sane amid the filth, fear and misery that were the battles of Peleliu and Okinawa.It is at times moving, and at other times stomach turning. At all times though it is extremely riveting, and I found that this book was very hard to put down. One can also not put down this book without a profound appreciation for the young men who went through the worst kind of hell for their country.

Phyphor
July 22, 2003, 01:33 PM
I may be wrong, but that read like "It's not going to be based on an existing book, like Band of Brothers, but on other historical facts, accounts, etc. "

I doubt it's going to be a SPR wank.


('Least, I HOPE not!)

shooten
July 22, 2003, 01:54 PM
Phyphor,

Agreed. I read it to say that it wouldn't be based on a single work, ie. BoB, and the "story" would be based on historical events. I'm not very articulate today with 6 of my relatives staying with us last night and my mother-in-law here for a week. She's a flaming liberal. We have some great conversations. :neener:

Scott

Delmar
July 22, 2003, 02:07 PM
Cosmoline-that was the 7th Infantry Division (Hourglass) and not the 2nd I.D. (Indianhead). The 2nd ID landed at D-day + 1 and spent their time in the European Theatre.
http://www.grunts.net/army/7thid.html

glockten
July 22, 2003, 02:14 PM
I don't believe Saving Private Ryan was based on a true story either.

The idea for it was. In one of Ambrose's books (I think it was D-Day) he tells of a paratrooper named Niland who lost two brothers in combat. He was pulled out and sent home.

MolonLabe416,

WTOB would be an excellent choice for a Spielberg dramatization. It's the best Pacific memoir that I've read, too.

4v50 Gary
July 22, 2003, 02:17 PM
Horrible battle on Attu & Kiska? I thought the Japanese skedaddled before our troops even landed there. Still, it would be good since most folks forget that it's the first time since the War of 1812 that our soil has been invaded by a hostile foreign power.

Schuey2002
July 22, 2003, 02:34 PM
Let the waiting begin!

( I don't have HBO..) :banghead:

Thumper
July 22, 2003, 02:55 PM
Hard for an Army dog to admit this, but I agree with Boats.

Hope they can work in a word about Ernie Pyle.

I'm looking forward to it.

robear
July 22, 2003, 06:17 PM
Awesome!!!! The original is one of my most treasured DVD sets.. CAN'T WAIT for the next one!!!

R

Silent Bob
July 22, 2003, 06:29 PM
Not to sound like a wet blanket, or detract what our soldiers went through in World War II, but I think there has been too much emphasis on the European theater/World War II (possibly because Nazis are the only war movie enemy that doesn't bring out the special interest groups?) in the past several years. I would like to see the Band of Brothers concept expanded to Korea, which isn't known as "The Forgotten War" for nothing. (Well, there was MASH and all)

simon
July 22, 2003, 06:52 PM
Good Point Bob!
Maybe on the next one they'll do just that...

tetchaje1
July 22, 2003, 07:07 PM
Don't leave out Bougainville. :(

I agree that the Pacific War was really focused on the Marines (shore landings) and the Navy (sea and air battles). I also agree that a future series about the Korean War is essential.

Hutch
July 22, 2003, 07:17 PM
'Nother vote for using "With the Old Breed" as a basis. The 1st MarDiv (including my father-in-law) went from Oki to China after the war. Some fascinating stories came from that, and some are in another book by E. B. Sledge. Forgot the name of the book, unfortunately.

Sledge(hammer) taught college near hear in a little state school (Universit of Montevallo) until recently. He passed late in 2001, IIRC. His son had a neat display table at an AGCA (Ala. Gun Collectors ???'n) show a couple back, with some some of his personal effects.

Waitone
July 22, 2003, 09:45 PM
Regardless of the historical setting for BoB II, can we look forward to American forces assaulting an objective with walkie-talkies? Hey, Steven S. failed to mention Schindler armed Jews.

That said, I enjoy BoB I and look forward to II.

JDSlack
July 22, 2003, 11:21 PM
Hutch,
I agree "With The Old Breed" would be a great start, but so would "The Long and The Short And The Tall" another great 1st person account about USMC in the Pacific. Tha Author, Alvain Josephy was with the 3rd MarDiv on Guam and Iwo, great story.

444
July 22, 2003, 11:32 PM
Of course we all could be wrong and it will be about the Navy.

Boats
July 23, 2003, 12:20 AM
Of course we all could be wrong and it will be about the Navy.

And that tale could certainly be harrowing in its own way. Pearl, Coral Sea, Midway, The "Slot," all of the action around the Phillipines, the first Kamikaze strikes, signing the Japanese surrender on Big Mo'.

The thing about battle at sea is that there is nowhere to run away to. You fight where you live and work. if the ship is struck significantly, a good portion of the crew, and your friends will die or be horribly maimed. If the ship sinks, you could go down with it and drown, escape it only to drown, escape it only to die of exposure, be rescued, (but not by the enemy), or maybe become shark chow.

I'd probably watch it. :D

lionken07
July 23, 2003, 12:32 AM
I think the DVD collection is well worth the almost $100 dollars price tag.

I will get the next band of brothers DVDs as soon as they come out.

and yes hopefully its base on true story.:)

444
July 23, 2003, 12:34 AM
I would actually prefer it being about the Navy, but I would like to see the same kind of format where they follow one ship or one unit (however it works in the Navy) through the war rather than jumping around.

greyhound
July 23, 2003, 09:56 AM
Silent Bob, good point about the Nazis being the only "PC" enemy these days. Remember the big fuss out in L.A when when they wanted to show "Tora, Tora, Tora" to some veterans and some liberal assclown wouldn't let them use a public arena? :fire:

One of my biggest peeves is that we're not allowed to show history as it really was these days, it all has to fit into someone's post-modern agenda. (Like schools having 1 week on Harriet Tubman and 1 day on (slave-owning) Thomas Jefferson. Now I agree that both need to be taught and are important, but come on....)

Silent Bob
July 23, 2003, 10:42 AM
I think a neat scene (in a Korean Band of Brothers) would be to portray a massive ChiCom human wave attack against an American position, complete with the bugles they would play to signal attacks.

Cosmoline
July 23, 2003, 12:14 PM
The big problem with setting it on the Navy is COST. Even huge films with multi million dollar budgets fear filming on the sea. It could be done at that big tank in Mexico, but it wouldn't look right.

Boats
July 23, 2003, 01:06 PM
The big problem with setting it on the Navy is COST. Even huge films with multi million dollar budgets fear filming on the sea. It could be done at that big tank in Mexico, but it wouldn't look right.

Despite largely filming in tanks, the illusion of being at sea was pretty well maintained in The Perfect Storm and Titanic. I tend to think that if Speilberg wanted to do a BoB involving the Navy, that he might know a crew or two who could make it happen well enough that you wouldn't know that nobody ever left the dock.

Anyone who watched the extras disc on BoB knows that the whole thing was filmed mostly on one backlot for the town and hedgrow scenes and a huge indoor soundstage for Bastonge. Mix in some location shots of "Curahee," Bavaria, and Austria, and voila, finished film. Four DC-3s become hundreds, ships flown over the channel all digitized, jump scenes all bluescreened. The Navy would be simple enough with enough computing power.

444
July 23, 2003, 01:13 PM
I never watch the extra disc. I want to believe it is all real. I have no desire to see how it was REALLY made. That takes all the fun out of it for me.

Cosmoline
July 23, 2003, 01:38 PM
the Titanic had a "titanic" budget, and "The Perfect Storm" used a small boat with a small crew.

You know, I bet they could pull it off if they set it on a PT boat or frigate. But then you run into the problems of the viewers having to see the same sets every single episode. BOB was great in part because it was always shifting.

They'll go to the Marines on this one, I'm sure. They can get a bit of everything that way. Some shots on the big ships at sea, some on landing craft, some in the interior of tropical islands, etc.

Still wish someone would make a film about Attu and the forgotten front. The wet and cold the soldiers had to cope with up here made the worst days of the Battle of the Bulge look mild.

Boats
July 23, 2003, 02:36 PM
BoB's $90-100 million budget was nothing to sneeze at. One can readily see that most of that money made it onto the screen, largely because mostly "not-yet famous" actors such as Ron Livingston and Damian Lewis were used.

I think BoB--PTO will follow the Marines. It would be a treat to have some naval gunfire support, close air support, and kamikaze action off of some of those islands "filmed" and included. In the ETO, the allies had air superiority but no enemy willing to engage in air carnage against allied targets when losing. The PTO was as different from the ETO as night is to day.

To be credible, the BoB-PTO portrayal should be unblinking in its honesty. As much as it was about anything else, the PTO was a race war. "The Japs" was just the most polite term our side had for them, and they were not any better about the caucasins they fought against or captured.

We didn't take many prisoners because even when the few IJA troops who surrendered tried to, they were rarely captured. On our side, one knew better than to become a POW and to save that last bullet for himself. No one ever told his buddies, "Leave me for the Japs" when on the retreat or something and thought to be too wounded to move. Where else did Americans face bayonet charges and other serious hand-to-hand combat incidents because of the close contact distances jungle fighting can create?

Where was napalm first used? Where were flamethrowers common and used as extensively as any other issued weapon? The atom bomb? There is a nasty undercurrent in the PTO that made that theater qualitatively more savage than the ETO.

BoB does contain a not-so-subtle respect for the enemy's "sameness." A certain respect would be paid by Pacific veterans to their counterparts, but it would be more grounded in an otherworldly toughness, ability to endure hardship and fight suicidally, not out of a shared sense of duty or other, "we could've been friends in a different context" claptrap.

BoB-PTO needs to be more politically incorrect than BoB-ETO or it will ring falsely.

444
July 23, 2003, 02:51 PM
Very good points.
I don't think that will happen, but you are correct.

moa
July 23, 2003, 03:13 PM
Correct me if I am wrong, please, but during in the Alaska campaign was there not a large scale and deadly friendly fire event? Result of dirty weather?

DMK
July 23, 2003, 04:49 PM
Correct me if I am wrong, please, but during in the Alaska campaign was there not a large scale and deadly friendly fire event? Result of dirty weather? I remember reading about that. IIRC, two U.S. forces landed on opposite sides of a Japanese held island. They soon made contact and had a fierce firefight. Unfortunately, the enemy had already left the island well before they got there. The two forces were attacking each other.

cdbeaver
July 23, 2003, 06:35 PM
Boats:

I believe the Navy's role in WWII was covered extensively in the television series "Victory at Sea." I thought the Navy came off pretty well in those episodes.

WWII's ETO was primarily an Army (and Army Air Force) show, while in the Pacific the Marines were the prmary combatants (though the Army came in to "mop up" after the Marines had secured enemy-held islands with their amphibious landings.

I do not at all intend to throw rocks when I say that the Marine brass was very publicity conscious, and Marine cameramen, both still and movie, were right up at the very front lines recording Marine battles for the sake of historical accuracy . . . and Marine glory.

This old Korean War vet would very much like to see a documentary-type movie or TV series about that three-year conflict that saw more than 33,000 soldier and Marines killed in combat.

Boats
July 23, 2003, 08:05 PM
Please note that although I am myself a naval veteran, I have "lobbied" nobody in particular that the BoB-PTO should be about the Marines from the get-go.

No discussion of WWII publicity hounds would be complete without a few days devoted to the media antics of Gen. Douglas MacArthur.:D

I also agree that perhaps one should be done about Korea, especially to remind those South Korean protestors and the American left why we are still there.

ShaiVong
July 23, 2003, 08:23 PM
Ok, now i'm showing my WW2 history knowledge holes.

Wasn't the Army on Okinawa too? My Grandfather was on Okinawa, and I always thought he was Army...

He's never mentioned the core, although he never really talks about it in detail. hes 82 now though, and still screams at night. :(

Dave R
July 23, 2003, 08:39 PM
You guys are missing an obvious area of focus: Guadalcanal. Prolly the most pivotal battle of the Pacific Theatre. If that had swung the other way, it would've been a lot longer war.

And the facts couldn't have been scripted better by a fantasy writer.

Marines abandoned by the Navy. Forced to live off captured enemy rations. Rag-tag flyboys keeping planes aloft by cannibalism. Epic ground battles, huge odds, no reinforcements, live or die with what we got, hold the line by using artillery at close range with grapeshot, Chesty Puller, what else do you want?

Wow, who could play Chesty Puller? None of today's crop. Ernest Borgnine? (his early, dramatic days, not McHales Navy) Lee Marvin? The Duke? Gunny Ermy ;-) ?

cdbeaver
July 23, 2003, 08:41 PM
Boats:

That's for sure. There was none better in the world at self-aggrandizement than good ol' Dugout Doug. His ego was large enought to last through part of the Korean War and a joint session of Congress.

By the way, Sunday will mark the 50th anniversary of the cessation of hostilities in Korea in July, 1953, with appropriate ceremonies here and abroad. Please give a nod of your head for those valiant warriors who were the first to fight against communism in that "police action."

voilsb
August 9, 2003, 10:25 PM
We could follow an Army unit quite well.

A good choice would be the first division to be trained in jungle warfare, the first division sent overseas after Pearl Harbor, the first division to fight the Japanese in an offensive operation, the division to fight the longest (45 months) in the Pacific Theater, the division to capture the fewest Japanese, Tokyo Rose's "Butcher Division," the 41st Infantry Division "Jungleers." (www.41stdivision.com)

In 1940, the 41st Infantry Division was inducted into Federal service for WWII. It became the first American Division sent overseas after Pearl Harbor, the first American Division trained in Jungle Warfare. It spent 45 months overseas (longer than any other Division), and earned the title of "Jungleers". The unit deactivated in 1945 in Kure, Japan.

As the international situation worsened in the 1930's, the intensity and urgency of training in the 41st Division increased. In 1937, the Division paired with the US 3rd Division for Corps Maneuvers at Fort Lewis. The 1940 summer camp at Fort Lewis witnessed the Division training with maneuvers at regimental level. One month after annual training in 1940, the 41st Division, along with the 249th Coast Artillery and State Headquarters, was called to active service. During the 14 months prior to the beginning of the World War II, the Division underwent intensive combat-type training and was equipped with the latest, most modern equipment available. By December 7, 1941, the 41st Division was ready. It continued the series of "firsts" by being the first United States Division to deploy to the South Pacific.

The 41st Division first stopped at Australia for even more training and then proceeded to New Guinea. This time, the 41st Division became the first American division to meet the Imperial Japanese Forces, not in defense, but in an offensive operation. Places with the strange names of Buna, Gona, Sanananda, and Salamaua became Oregonian battlegrounds in a war with an enemy during which no quarter was given or taken. The Division fought for 76 continuous days in combat against the Japanese at Salamaua. For 26 days only canned "C" rations were available. At the end of this campaign, Tokyo Rose, in her propaganda broadcasts, referred to the 41st as the "Butcher Division" because, among all the records established by the 41st, it established a record for taking the least number of Japanese prisoners-of-war in the entire Pacific theatre. This was the result of an incident early during the New Guinea campaign when the bodies of captured American soldiers were found to have been dismembered by their captors and the meat later discovered amongst Japanese prisoners carefully wrapped in large green leaves for preservation.

After the New Guinea campaign, the 41st Division returned to Australia for rest and re-equipping. In a few weeks, the Division then made another thrust to the north. Hollandia and Aitape, coastal communities on New Guinea's eastern coast fell, along with the islands of Wakde and Biak. The road continued into the Philippines where more bitter fighting occurred at Palawan, Zamboanga, and the Sulu Archipelago. After the fall of the Philippines, the Division began training for the attack on Japan itself, but surrender came first. The Division did move to Japan where it occupied the island of Honshu for a few months. Soon after, it was deactivated and the men returned home.
Map of Pacific Operations (http://freepages.military.rootsweb.com/~romm/41stDivBde/MAPUStoJapan.jpg)

Of course, I have a personal bias towards the 2nd BN 162 IN RGT of the 41st, but that's just because they're my brothers and are deploying for Iraq in a couple months with the 39th SIB.

Loaded
August 9, 2003, 10:38 PM
I just hope that what ever branch of the military they use, that the PC Police (read liberals), don't pursuade the film makers to alter the style that was used in BoB #1.

It's easy for most to watch a re-enactment of the European battles as the "enemy" looked like us. So, hopeflly the people involved with the production will allow for realism

And if not, it will be a dud. Remember, all the PC manure they try to use to "shield those who might be offended" cannot rewrite history as it really happened.

MMcCall
August 10, 2003, 02:52 PM
I recently found my dad's copy of "Follow Me", the history of the 2nd Marines in the Pacific. Apparently the Corps sent a copy to everyone who served during WWII. The letter from the Commandant is still tucked into the jacket.

I'm sure that book would have a few clues for the producers.

I have my granddad's 1st Marine and 2nd Marine books, in the same case with his medals and uniforms. It's quite the time capsule.

I have high hopes for this BOB series.. I hope in this era of PC fimmaking, they can really capture how committed, brutal and downright crazy the Japanese fighters were.

greyhound
August 10, 2003, 03:21 PM
I am currently reading "With The Old Breed" about one company of the 1st Marine Division on Peleliu and Okinawa.

Sweet Jeebus, what these men had to endure.

I agree, I hope the revisionist PC Police don't get hold of this one. There were atrocities on both sides. (Though to be honest, we were willing to fight a "fair" war at first.)

If they really do show it as it was, I expect there will be protests from the leftists, unfortunately.

Futo Inu
August 10, 2003, 03:43 PM
Nice!

Anyone know where to get the best price on the full DVD set of the 1st series? Please email or PM me if you do. Thanks.

Detritus
August 10, 2003, 05:20 PM
has reminded me of a question that has been bugging me for awhile now. my own grandfather (who passed on when i was a year and a half old) was amoung the troops sent to the aleutians. and due to the stories that my mother and the rest of the family related to me i'd always assumed that he was with the 7th Div.

the problem is that certain facts don't match up. maybe if i give the facts one of you, who knows more than i do about such things could tell me.

so here's what i know...

volunteered prior to pearl harbor, while in the state of California working as a fruit picker.

trained in Desert warfare, then trained in amphibious assualt,
unit sent to docks in lightweight desert uniforms and boots, troops assume they will be used in the invasion of N. Africa.

troop transports leave the docks in CA but instead of turning south to enter the panama canal, the ships turn north.

unit engages in combat in the Aleutians, while still fitted out in warm weather gear/boots, many of his buddies become frontbite victims.

aleutian campaign ends.

and here's where its get weird ie his combat accounts diverge from the 7thID

his unit, or at least he himself, does NOT participate in the next phase of action described in the 7th ID history.

instead he spends a period in the Mediterranean theater, served under Patton. i THINK spends time in N. Africa not sure, takes part in either or both the invasions of Sicily and/or Italy. we have souveniers of Italian and German military origin, so we know this happened. as well as his repeatedly stated opinion that he would have rather served in Hell with Patton than been waited on in heaven with MacArthur!

after this his personal combat history begins to match up with that of the 7th ID, ie he returns to the PTO.

I do NOT know if he was present in the PTO at any time between the end of the Kiska campaign, and the invasion of Leyte,

and it is at Leyte that two events occur, first his unit is attrited down to the point that he is the senior man (no officers or higher rank NCOs) in the platoon and leads them for a few days. he is offered a battlefield commision, where upon he tells the Colonel offering the rank where to shove it (something along the lines of "i've done my time deciding who's gonna die first, someone else can have the job!") within a few days he's shipped home owing to a shrapnel wound in his backside.


anyone have any ideas

Blain
August 10, 2003, 06:36 PM
Did Steven direct or just produce the first BoB?

Blackcloud6
August 10, 2003, 08:04 PM
My vote would be to do the 37th Infantry Division from the Ohio National Guard. Louisana maneuvers. Camp Shelby, Mississppi, Fiji to Guadalcanal to Bougainville, Luzon and Manila. It was the only NG division to keep its NG Division Commander throughout the war.

swingset
August 11, 2003, 04:27 AM
I know it pre-dates the PTO by a few years, but man o man would I love to see BOB quality brought to the tale of Claire Lee Chennault and the AVG (Flying Tigers)!

Oh well, I'll have to suffer through that horrible John Wayne version until someone reads my mind. :D

BamBam-31
August 11, 2003, 07:45 AM
Edited to remove threadjack. Sorry, fellas.

Mebbe I'm just bummed cuz my buddy's got my BoB DVD set, and I'm gettin' the shakes.

:(

Johnny Guest
August 11, 2003, 05:52 PM
I truly can't speak to what was in member Loaded's mind when he wrote the Japs looking like the sneeky, yellow nips that they were. Look back and see that he also wrote - -Remember, all the PC manure they try to use to "shield those who might be offended" cannot rewrite history as it really happened.

As a moderator, I've called down a few members who have really been offensive, as to race, gender, religion, place of national origin, etc. But I also think there is such a thing as being TOO politically correct for the real world.

If the above remarks were a wish that the production realistically face the attitudes of the time, there is a valid point there. For good or ill, there WAS INDEED a conscious campaign in all the combatant nations to depersonalize and demonize the enemy, both nationally and individually. A quick 'net search for propaganda posters will reveal some very lurid depictions of bespectacled, bucktoothed, leering Japanese soldiers bayoneting babies and raping the flower of allied womanhood. "Nips" and "Japs" were words used in news headlines and from the pulpits of the USA.

Remember, The entire world was aflame with war! They were the enemy, threatening the very existence of the U.S.A.! The opening of hostilities was pronounced as if one word: SneakattackonPearlHarbor. It was an article of faith that This Was How They Were! An accurate depiction of WWII PTO, especially with any reference to the Home Front, without some slurring reference to the personnel of the Imperial Japanese Forces as "Sneaky yellow" **expletive softened?** would be ludicrously inaccurate.

Okay now, MODERATOR HAT in place: For this thread, please, nothing else that could be construed as a racial slur against the Nihonese People. For that matter, take it easy even on those who were specifically members of the military and naval forces of the empire.

Furthermore: Please, let earlier statements in this thread pass without additional remarks. This is a pretty good discussion topic and I'd like to allow it to pay out. Be informed, though, that if it deteriorates, I or some other moderator will kill it without remorse.

We now return you to our regularly scheduled discussion.


Johnny

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