[ScottsGT]

Did a forum search on this, nothing came up so I'm hoping I'm not duplicating.
But there is a new .22LR coming from Germany. Apparently it is being made by a high end paintball marker mfgr. that has produced a few other rimfires in the past. Best news it that it should be right around $500. I'm planning on getting one, then pay the $200 to the BATF and have my 'smith chop off the barrel and thread it so my supressor will fit.
Should be in the states for general sales but Jan/Feb. Apparently the first batch has gone to all the magazines for review.
http://www.germansportguns.de/gsg5/index.pl?mode=2

http://www.shootingsportsretailer.com/content/view/258/1/

[ArmedBear]

It's even California legal, believe it or not.

Looks like fun!

[casio02478]

Is it roller lock or blow-back action?

[ScottsGT]

Here's the companys video on Youtube. kind of cheesy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y6b2h5rHvis&feature=related

Found tech. specs:
Caliber; 22 LR
capacity; 5, 10 or 20 rounds, detachable
Working System; Semi-Automatic, HK roller-delayed blowback (Vorgrimmler system)
overall weight; 4.9 lbs
overall length; 26.7 inches
barrel length; 16 for USA market, 7.7 inches in Germany.

Have not heard if they are going to import a Title II, So I'm just going to pay the fees and go from there......

[Halo is for Kids]

If only they would make one in 9mm.:rolleyes:

I'll buy it if it works, are there any other roller locking 22lr?

They say it's a 22LR HV. Only reliable with HV ammo?

[ArmedBear]

They say it's a 22LR HV. Only reliable with HV ammo?

That's also the spec of the Marlin 60.

Somehow, I don't think that the GSG-5 is going to be popular for benchrest competition anyway.:)

I suppose subsonics could be interesting for other purposes, but the 60 grain SSS's might cycle it fine, also. I wonder how they work in the 60...

[rjohnson4405]

Video was really cheesy lol!

[ArmedBear]

And now is ze time on schprockets when ve shoot cans!

[Eightball]

Hum. I might pick one of these things up if I have some extra cash laying around. Could be a fun potential SBR.

I wonder if it could be threaded for the suppressor of a SIG Mosquito......oooh, this tax stamp stuff could add up very quickly.

And how on earth is it CA legal?

[ArmedBear]

And how on earth is it CA legal?

Banned "assault weapon" characteristics include "centerfire" in the definition.

AK-22's are legal, also, as are Feathers, 10/22's with Tapco stocks, etc.

[Tim13]

And now is ze time on schprockets when ve shoot cans!

Would you like to pet my monkey?

[M1 Shooter]

How did they get around the '89 import ban? Is that also like the CA ban that only applies to centerfire? Or, did they have to add US parts to make it legal?

[Anteater1717]

How did they get around the '89 import ban? Is that also like the CA ban that only applies to centerfire? Or, did they have to add US parts to make it legal?

Yep

[PercyShelley]

Why roller-delay a .22LR? Seems like a lot of work for no apparent reason.

[El Tejon]

ScottsGT, thank you very much for posting this!

I have now answered my own thread "What guns for nephews, Christmas '08 edition"!:D

Thanks again.

*I posted a comment on youtube. Can someone check my German and make sure I do not sound like a moron?

[Quiet]

Pics of the GSG-5 in it's Title 1 configuration. (How it's going to look when you buy it in the USA).
BATFE approved with no US parts.

http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd51/gm1854/gsg22ca0.jpg
http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd51/gm1854/GSG_5_Barrel_1.jpg

MSRP around $500-600.

And it is CA legal with the factory 10 round magazines.

[El Tejon]

Title II? So, the suppressor is functional then?

Or, do you mean Title I?:confused:

Title I=non NFA weaponry
Title II=NFA regulated weaponry

[Quiet]

Title II? So, the suppressor is functional then?

Or, do you mean Title I?

Title I=non NFA weaponry
Title II=NFA regulated weaponry
I meant Title 1. Sorry about that.

How it's originally made, it is considered a Title 2 firearm. They had to make them with the 16" barrel to be considered a Title 1 firearm.

[nwilliams]

http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb264/nwilliams27/drooling_homer.gif

Around $500!

Well in that case I don't see any reason why I won't be adding one of these to my collection! I love the fact that its a .22 at least I can afford to feed it and guns like this you want to put lots of rounds through!

[Mac Attack]

I already have had my name on the list for one of those baby's for 3-4 weeks now. I can't wait for it to arrive.

Last quote had them stuck in Customs with a pending delivery between 30 - 60 days.

[Geno]

You know, I'm really starting to "hate" you fellas. Every time that I think I have every firearm that I could possibly want, someone here posts a firearm picture like this!!!! It's unfair! Unfair I say.

Thanks! Life has purpose again.

Geno

[Eightball]

Give us updates as to the actual street price, etc of these things. I don't want to save up $500 for one, and then they skyrocket in price like ARs.

[Hkmp5sd]

I wonder if a full auto HK trigger pack will work with it.

[Mac Attack]

Gordon Miller has them listed for $499.

[4v50 Gary]

I wonder if a full auto HK trigger pack will work with it.
I doubt if the bolt carriers are the same. Remember, the 22 is straight blowback and so the bolt carrier and bolt head are probably resemble the 9mm cousin superficially.

[nwilliams]

Gordon Miller has them listed for $499.

As does Atlantic Firearms
http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/programming/expand.asp?Prodid=477

[silverlance]

quick whos selling it so i can go broke before xmas.

[Rob87]

Why doesn't H&K just make a semi-automatic only version of their MP5 series?

[Hkmp5sd]

Why doesn't H&K just make a semi-automatic only version of their MP5 series?

They made a semi-auto version of all of their long guns. They were banned from importation in 1989 because they did not meet the re-defined "sporting" clause of the 1968 GCA. They then made sporterized versions of some of their firearms (thumbhole stocks) that were banned in 1998. They made a semi-auto pistol version of their MP5K subgun called the SP-89 which was discontinued from manufacture after the 1994 Semi-Automatic Assault Weapon Ban prohibitted its importation.

Obviously they just didn't bother with the weapons they designed since 1989.

[nwilliams]

Why doesn't H&K just make a semi-automatic only version of their MP5 series?

Because you suck and they hate you!

Sorry I couldn't resist:evil:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=309767&highlight=suck+hate This thread was too good to let it:D

Actually the HK 94 was their civilian version and like the gentleman mentioned above they used to be imported. You can find them on places gunbroker.com but they are a bit pricey when you do find them.

[woodybrighton]

that would be legal in the uk with a working suppressor :D
time to work a lot harder so I can afford some expensive toys
just see the look on the NRA officials at bisely if I rock up with one of those and
the m16 style .410 :evil:

[hexidismal]

Heck, in .22lr it may be even MORE unreliable than the real MP5.. if that's actually possible.

Then again.. I guess all the malfunctions I've had with mp5s are because I'm not a "real operator".. and I suck , and HK hates me... hehe

[PercyShelley]

They made a semi-auto version of all of their long guns. They were banned from importation in 1989 because they did not meet the re-defined "sporting" clause of the 1968 GCA. They then made sporterized versions of some of their firearms (thumbhole stocks) that were banned in 1998. They made a semi-auto pistol version of their MP5K subgun called the SP-89 which was discontinued from manufacture after the 1994 Semi-Automatic Assault Weapon Ban prohibitted its importation.

Obviously they just didn't bother with the weapons they designed since 1989.

Puts the "because you suck and we hate you" thing in a new light doesn't it?

Sure, HK may think we suck and they may hate us, but our legislators started it first.

[SaMx]

That's really cool, especially around $500!

when I first saw it I thought, "cool, a .22 plinker that looks like an MP-5, it should be a fun toy for people with lots of money." But for only $500 bucks, hell, I can afford that. I would buy this instead of a 10-22. I bet it'll be popular.

[Quiet]

I wonder if a full auto HK trigger pack will work with it.
The distributors are saying no. It will not except the HK trigger pack or auto-sear.

[Atlantic Firearms]

Ok here is a few answers about the GSG 5 rifles

We expect to see them in mid to late Jan 2008
The price should remain stable @ $499.00
Sear packs will not work
There is one model coming in now but other versions in the future
Extra mags priced around $34 -$36 ish range
First mags coming will be 22 rounds, in the future 10's & 20's no ETA on those
We are now taking pre orders with a deposit & will be offering some sort of discount for forum members, IE free ship , discount on gun, extra mag etc ,this has yet to be determined.

Thank You
Atlantic Firearms.com

[Fosbery]

that would be legal in the uk with a working suppressor
time to work a lot harder so I can afford some expensive toys
just see the look on the NRA officials at bisely if I rock up with one of those and
the m16 style .410

Yes, UK legal in its US format but the shorter versions would be section 5. With an integral, working silencer it would be just like any other .22, but a detachable silencer would require an additional entry on your FAC.

The Rhineland Arms R22 (an MP5-a-like .22) is already around in the UK, though the Ruger 10/22 still dominates the gallery rifle scene. German Sporting Gun's British distributor is Centra UK so they'll be coming through them I imagine.

I don't see why the NRA people at Bisley would have any problem with it, they have Walther G22s and AR15s in the armoury there for members to use and as long as it's legal and within the muzzle energy limits you can shoot it on their ranges.

If you're after a .410 AR15 the Safir T14 is being imported into the UK by that Russian military shop that brings in some of the Saigas, I forget the name.

[ScottsGT]

Wow, great to see a dealer jump in on the bandwagon!!
Can you tell us if subsonic .22LR will cycle the action of the GSG-5?
I e-mailed Germany, but have yet to hear back.
Now I have to see what I can sell to get one of these babys! Just when the wife quits working to go back to grad school, I find a firearm I cannot live without!

[frogomatic]

may have to get one and see if a conversion to a centerfire pistol round is possible. one of those little buggers beefed up for a .45auto would be quite the little show stopper.

[mata777]

2nd that on if subsonics work. Anyways I think I'll get one of these this Feb.

[Atlantic Firearms]

Not sure on the Sub Sonic , we will try to find out and let you know .

[PirateRadio]

Want!!!!!!

[Atlantic Firearms]

FYI for California gunners we can ship the rifle to CA with the mag un assembled and you can have you ffl install a mag block to make it compliant.

[Skunkabilly]

HOW FUN!!!

plap. plap. plap. plap. *giggle*!!!

plap. plap. plap. HEE HEEE!!!

plap. plap. plap.

[Markbo]

Well I guess if I were a Mall Ninja and felt the need for low cost practice for my REAL MP5 I would give a rats patootie. Otherwise, what can this do that a $200 10/22 can't? Besides for another $150 on that 10/22 I can pretty much guarantee I can outshoot that thing accuracy wise.

YAAAAAWN.

[El Tejon]

It can look cool.:p

That's enough for me, er, my nephews.:)

[Skunkabilly]

>> That's enough for me, er, my nephews. <<

And me.

Besides, it just looks fun and that's worth something.

[ScottsGT]

Just heard back from the mfgr. They have not tested with subsonic ammo, so they have no clue if it will cycle. I e-mailed them back and told them to get on it! Us gun nuts in the States want it SBR with a supressor, and we need it to cycle Sub Sonics!

[ScottsGT]

Heads up! They're going to test it next week with subsonic ammo and get back in touch with me.

[Logan5]

It probably makes me a huge geek (we knew that) but I'm probably buying one.

[Donpeyote]

Dear Atlantic Firearms (Do you have a time frame for when the Ocean Shipment will clear Customs and your batches (From the Ocean Shipment will arrive ?) or is GSG sending more units via air due to all the Initial interest this weapon has generated ?

[buzz_knox]

Puts the "because you suck and we hate you" thing in a new light doesn't it?

Sure, HK may think we suck and they may hate us, but our legislators started it first.

That saying developed due to HK's historic problems with customer service, not with their decision to import weapons even more severely neutered than required by law.

[RockyMtnTactical]

Very interesting...

[DoubleTapDrew]

Why did click on this thread??? Dangit there goes another $500.
Lopping off the barrel, getting it threaded, and putting a real can on it might be fun too :)

[Crunker1337]

I've known about this gun for some months now.

I wonder what "additional versions" will be made? Dare I dream an MP5-22SD? (one that works, not the Kestrel Fire POC)

I suppose that if one wanted the MP5SD look, one could contact RDTS or E&L mfg. and see what can be done.

This gun is no 10/22 replacement, but it does look very cool. I may have to look into it after I turn 18.

[Luomu]

360 rounds through my new gsg5 (and 3 magazines) now. On first session I experienced 3-4 misfires that may or may not have been due to ammo (federal crap)+ 1 FTF. On 2nd day there were no misfires, but 3x FTF with CCI Stinger and 1 FTF with CCI MiniMag (this last one prolly operator error, as my buddy was holding the magazine while shooting).

Accuracy seems very good, but I have not scoped the gun. 150m groups were quite good as the weather was calm with no wind. Gun cycled with std velocity ammo just fine at +1 Celcius. Ammo tested so far:

-CCI Stinger
-CCI MiniMag
-Lapua Master
-Remington Thunderbolt
-Federal Lightning
-Federal Champion
-PMC Scoremaster
-PMC Zapper

I need to shoot a lot more (and will), but initially I'm positively surprised at the accuracy potential. Reliability needs more testing, but firing pin marks on casings are a bit on the light side.

[Javelin]

Ok I have to get one of these!!!

:)

[Atlantic Firearms]

We expect to see the main shipment arrive Jan at customs ad we hope to see them late Jan or early Feb , it could be sooner but anytime you are dealing with imports it can be unpredictable. Only one model coming in at this time , there are discussions of other models but that will all be driven by sales & demand but so far it looks very promising.

[Markbo]

Luomo, is it possible for you to do some 50 yard bench shooting with a scope? I am very curious about just how good the accuracy is.

[Mac Attack]

Here link to the owners manual
http://www.germansportguns.de/gsg5/media/files/gsg5-english.pdf

And a link to ammo tested on GSG5
http://www.germansportguns.de/gsg5/media/files/gsg5-ammunition.pdf

[Luomu]

Markbo, in time I will. But it's not possible at the moment due to lack of time, funds etc.. And in any case I mainly bought the gun as a training tool to save on .223 ammo cost.

However, here's a link to a thread about the gun in a finnish site (site requires registration):

http://www.toiminta-ampujat.fi/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=4425&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=45

There are a couple of pictures about groups people have shot at 50m and at 30m on pages 4 and 5 there. Allthough I understand these groups were shot in haste and without proper bench technique. Still they should show you the gun has potential in the accuracy department. Guns haven't been in country for much more than a week now, so there's not too much data yet.

I shot 2 full magazines of PMC Scoremaster from prone, elbow support only, at 150m and with the iron sights. Target was the army's version of the international 300m rifle target. 10 ring is 10 cm, or 4", with a 5 cm x-ring. 9-ring is 5 cm wide like all the other rings as well. I scored 180/200 points and 179/200 points, firing rather rapidly. With a .22, this was not too bad for me. But I have no pictures, so you just have to take my word for it.. ;)

[Markbo]

Kiitoksia oikein paljon!

[Crunker1337]

Word on the street is that they will eventually have an SD version (fake suppressor) that looks like the MP5SD, not an MP5 with an add on suppressor like the current one does.
Just wanted to throw that out there... these guys look like they know what we want.

[ScottsGT]

Just got the E-mail from Germany:

Hello Scott,

we did the test: we used RWS Subsonic and the result is perfect !!! works without any failure !

Best regards from Germany,

Michael

Now I'm doing the happy dance and trying to figure out what I have to sell to be able to afford one of these! The wife starts Grad School in three weeks, the gravy train has come to a stop. (for a few years)

[Atlantic Firearms]

Thats cool info on the sub sonic ammo , thanks for sending them the email to inquire !!

[Markbo]

Now if we can just get some proper accuracy testing done...:rolleyes:

[silverlance]

is subsonic much quieter than regular 22lr even in a non suppressed gun?

and by the way - this is for Atlantic Firearms - CA does not require fixed magazines for rimfire rifles - so as long as the 22rnd mag is disassembled into parts only kit, or if it is swapped with a 10rd, we are totally peachy! =)

[jerkface11]

How many rounds does it hold? The web site says 10 but that mag looks awfully long for 10.

[Luomu]

There are mags of different capacity available. Mine are nominally 20-rounders, but in reality they take 22 rounds.

[MD_Willington]

GSG is also working on an AK .22

[Atlantic Firearms]

The rifles will come through with 22 round mags , 10 & 20 rounders will follow in the future but there is no exact date set at this time. On the CA deal yes we will ship the mag parts with the rifle if your ffl transfer dealer is told in advance and will accept them.

[bratch]

GSG is also working on an AK .22

hmm. Hold out for the AK or splurge on the MP5... ooh the choices.

[Feanaro]

I just lost $500. I don't even have $500 to spend right now but I will, somehow.

[BucksDC]

I pre ordered one a couple of months ago. Last week I was contacted and told they were coming in Jan. (probably more like March). Cost was $475 + 15 for shipping from http://www.grtactical.com/

[hksw]

hmm. Hold out for the AK or splurge on the MP5... ooh the choices.

WTH? Just buy both. The AK isn't out yet and problably would be for a while. Should be plenty of time to save up for it.

I will order a GSG tomorrow (and another when it comes out with the collapsible). How do we get the forum perks from Atlantic? Call it in?

[Atlantic Firearms]

HKSW, when you place the deposit there is an areas marked comments, just write in High Road user name ---- , we have not ironed out the final perk but it will be one of the following, a discount, free ship or a extra mag, we will determine this in Jan once we find out when the mag shipment is set to arrive.

[Daemon688]

Alright, since I own 11 guns and not a single .22, this finally gave me the motivation to get one. I can't wait! One thing that worries me though is the magazines. It looks like the magazine internals are exposed :uhoh: Correct me if I'm wrong.

[LRRP-87]

Well, what the hell. Like I need another .22:banghead:; but this one has a way high cool factor. Makes going to work worth while I guess. Yep, I'm getting one.:D

[taliv]

not sure how i missed this thread... guess i need to read THR every hour!


my big question is, how difficult will it be to SBR? i.e. can i remove the barrel, cut and rethread it easily? please tell me it's not some absurd ordeal like the FHN PS90.

also, i may just be dense here, but after reading the links/thread i'm not exactly sure who to send the $500 to. is there only one distributor in the US? or can most distributors (e.g. Davidsons) get it?

can't wait... looks great


edit: one more question... how is the trigger pull?

[hksw]

Ok here is a few answers about the GSG 5 rifles

We expect to see them in mid to late Jan 2008
The price should remain stable @ $499.00
Sear packs will not work
There is one model coming in now but other versions in the future
Extra mags priced around $34 -$36 ish range
First mags coming will be 22 rounds, in the future 10's & 20's no ETA on those
We are now taking pre orders with a deposit & will be offering some sort of discount for forum members, IE free ship , discount on gun, extra mag etc ,this has yet to be determined.

Thank You
Atlantic Firearms.com
.
.
.
HKSW, when you place the deposit there is an areas marked comments, just write in High Road user name ---- , we have not ironed out the final perk but it will be one of the following, a discount, free ship or a extra mag, we will determine this in Jan once we find out when the mag shipment is set to arrive.

Completed. $103 down.

[Luomu]

Daemon, the mags are open on the sides, yes. But they can be taken apart for cleaning easily enough.

Taliv, I would describe the trigger pull as.. authentic... :) Allthough it's been a few years since I fired an MP5, the trigger (according to memory) feels similar on the GSG5. You don't mistake it for an Anschütz.

[taliv]

heh!

[Daemon688]

Well, not fully enclosing the magazine seems like a mistake. I would have expected it to have clear plastic covering it up but I can live with it I guess. The simple cool factor is just too much for me to pass up on. I just hope that US companies will start kicking high caps for this gun. Something like a 100 round drum :)

[Atlantic Firearms]

These rifles are the beginning of a wave of .22 guns coming in and the interest should spark enough demand for a large capacity drum to go into production.

[Ed DCB]

Enjoy!

http://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/7811043/m/508109877


http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z69/Quickload/GSG%205/GSG5133.jpg

[Mac Attack]

Sweet! After looking at all the pictures I am more excited than ever. This may be the first rifle I have made into a SBR. This rifle will be so nice as a SBR with a suppressor :)

[Atlantic Firearms]

Yeah there are tons of our customers that plan on SBR ing the rifle for a supressor they should be whisper quiet and have already been tested with sub sonic ammo.

[ScottsGT]

Oh man, my life sucks!! I get all excited about this new toy, start this thread, and realize I won't be able to buy one for 2.5 years :banghead::banghead::banghead:
The wife's last day to work is tomorrow, and she will be unemployeed for 2.5 years while she attends Grad School. Any chance of extra income is gone for a long time, and I really cannot part with anything in my current collection. I just hope they are available 3 years from now :(

[woodybrighton]

I'm sure if you put enough tacticool junk on one and arrived dressed all in black it would annoy the NRA:evil:

[silverlance]

scott, $500 should't be that hard to save up in a year.

1. no coffee, drink hot water
2. byo lunch - rice and beans is great
3. no eating out - slow cook home meals using bulk groceries. if you pay utilities, get a pressure cooker
4. no buying ammo - shoot .22lrs in bulk packs
5. iron at home, no dry cleaning

my buddy did this and saved up enough to buy an m1a in under a year. and this is off of a $11/hr job.

further, the 2nd generation ones should be out by then, if there are any bugs they will be all worked out - as well as a nice 2nd hand market.

[Matt304]

I would buy one, if I had the opportunity to SBR and suppress the thing. Being that I live in a cesspool hellhole called Illinois, that won't be happening.

[General Geoff]

I'm definitely getting one. I'm beginning to start a collection of German .22lr rifles. :)

[benEzra]

OK, another gun just went on my long-term wish list... :)

[ScottsGT]

scott, $500 should't be that hard to save up in a year.

1. no coffee, drink hot water
2. byo lunch - rice and beans is great
3. no eating out - slow cook home meals using bulk groceries. if you pay utilities, get a pressure cooker
4. no buying ammo - shoot .22lrs in bulk packs
5. iron at home, no dry cleaning


1) Knowbody, and I mean knowbody would be able to be around me without my morning coffee, I'm just a mean, nasty individual without caffine in the a.m. Besides, I drink on the cheap, no Starbucks, etc...I'm in charge of the coffee pool at work, and everyone else usually funds it.

2) Already brown bagging it, been doing it for years. Not 5 days a week, but I now have to due to her school.

3) That's already gone too.

4) One of my plans in place. Just got a Walther P22 and a Supressor on the way, already paid for. Although I do have a lot of .30-06 for the Garands, so I will get to feel some recoil while I'm living on the cheap.

5) My ironing is the Kenmore dryer. I have 4 kids, 8 to 17. The washer and dryer never stop running, and there is no time for ironing.

Basically, our family income is dropping from $140,000 to about $60,000 and we have to support 4 kids, 4 cars and insurance, mortgage,powerbills for a household this size. What is lost in income is being made up in student loans, and even if I could squeek out $500 somehow, I would feel pretty bad buying a new "must have toy" but borrowing $500 and paying interest on it for how many years, just to make me happy?
When the wife is done (CRNA, certified registered nurse anestheologist) the family income will almost triple, so I can wait. Well, I think I can wait!
But thanks for the suggestions. I'm still thinking of what I can do as far as liquidating some hobbies.

[Outlaws]

Sweet! After looking at all the pictures I am more excited than ever. This may be the first rifle I have made into a SBR. This rifle will be so nice as a SBR with a suppressor

As far as I know, rimfire rifles are not excluded from the imported parts count. Does this have enough US parts?

[Quiet]

As far as I know, rimfire rifles are not excluded from the imported parts count. Does this have enough US parts?
AFAIK...
As being imported, it contains no US parts.
BATFE tested it for 6 months before approving it for importation. I guess it's current configuration meets their "sporting purpose" requirement.

[Outlaws]

AFAIK...
As being imported, it contains no US parts.
BATFE tested it for 6 months before approving it for importation. I guess it's current configuration meets their "sporting purpose" requirement.

Which will mean you cannot SBR it, or thread the barrel. For that you need US parts.

[ScottsGT]

Quote:
AFAIK...
As being imported, it contains no US parts.
BATFE tested it for 6 months before approving it for importation. I guess it's current configuration meets their "sporting purpose" requirement.

Which will mean you cannot SBR it, or thread the barrel. For that you need US parts.


Uh Oh! Your raining on a lot of parades!! This is what I wanted to do if I can come up with the funds. I thought once it was imported, you could so as you wanted, as long as you paid the fees and followed the law. Apparently the law doesn't allow "sporting purpopse" to include a SBR? I find SBR's quite sporty!

[Quiet]

I was always under the impression that once you make a Title 1 firearm into a Title 2 firearm you no longer have to worry about or play the 922r parts game.

[General Geoff]

^^also what I had thought.


Any lurking BATFE agents who want to clear this up? :)

[W.E.G.]

Settle down.

This "US parts" babble y'all are talking about only applies to the guns that are listed as "assault rifles."


"1989 IMPORT BAN"
18 USC Chapter 44 as amended by Public Law 101-647 (enacted 11-29-90) and 27 CFR part 178 as amended 06-25-93.
§ 178.39 Assembly of semiautomatic rifles or shotguns.

(a) No person shall assemble a semiautomatic rifle or any shotgun using more than 10 of the imported parts listed in paragraph (c) of this section if the assembled firearm is prohibited from importation under section 925(d)(3) as not being particularly suitable for or readily adaptable to sporting purposes.

Those HK knock-off guns look nifty.

But, they won't do anything that my 10-22 won't do.
Maybe a good choice if you're just starting your gun collection.

I think I'll just stick with my FAL for righteous bad-ass-ness.

[Outlaws]

I was always under the impression that once you make a Title 1 firearm into a Title 2 firearm you no longer have to worry about or play the 922r parts game.

Settle down.

This "US parts" babble y'all are talking about only applies to the guns that are listed as "assault rifles."


"1989 IMPORT BAN"
18 USC Chapter 44 as amended by Public Law 101-647 (enacted 11-29-90) and 27 CFR part 178 as amended 06-25-93.
§ 178.39 Assembly of semiautomatic rifles or shotguns.

(a) No person shall assemble a semiautomatic rifle or any shotgun using more than 10 of the imported parts listed in paragraph (c) of this section if the assembled firearm is prohibited from importation under section 925(d)(3) as not being particularly suitable for or readily adaptable to sporting purposes.

Those HK knock-off guns look nifty.

But, they won't do anything that my 10-22 won't do.
Maybe a good choice if you're just starting your gun collection.

I think I'll just stick with my FAL for righteous bad-ass-ness.

This issue came up with the Beretta CX4, and there was even a scanned letter from the ATF posted saying the weapon was allowed to be imported because it is a sporting arm. However, if it were to be turned into an SBR or have the barrel threaded, it would no longer be a "sporting" firearm, and thus would need to comply with the import parts count. SBRing a rifle does not make it exempt from the parts count.

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a75/codecypher/page1-1.jpg

It is basically saying that if the end product you produce would not be legal to be imported for civilian sale, you cannot assemble it or register it. A threaded barrel would not be legal to be imported for civilians, and neither would a short barrel.

[akolleth]

Hold the horses there Outlaws, you have an incomplete letter there. That is just page one, standard boilerplate that the ATF puts on letters in regard to 922r questions. Page 2 would be where they would address the specific question--

The ATF has already addressed this question in October of 2006 specifically and ruled that if you create a legal NFA item (SBR as an example) from a legally imported firearm, then it no longer falls into the 922r game

Originally Posted by Sterling Nixon, Chief, Firearms Technology Branch on Oct 11 2006

Dear Mr DRUGRUNR

This is in response to your letter dated September 28, 2006 to the Bureau Of Alchohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF), Firearms Technology Branch (FTB), in which you inqure concerning the legality of assembling short-barreled rifles (SBRs) using only imported parts.

As you are aware, SBRs are firearms controlled by the National Firearms Act (NFA). The ATF NFA Branch has previously received applications to make SBRs and shotguns from imported firearms. Since the making of these NFA weapons would render these firearms non-importable under 18 U.S.C. Section 925(d)(3), the ATF Office of Chief Councel Was consulted regarding ATF's position on the application of 18 U.S.C. Section 922(r) to the assembly of NFA Fireams. The response from the Office of Chief Counsel was as follows:

In our view, the making of NFA weapons from lawfully imported rifles and shotguns would not violate section 922(r). The legislative history of section 922(r) indicates that it was intended to preclude the circumvention of the importation restriction on nonsporting rifles and shotguns by importing parts for "nonsporting' firearms and assembling them in the United States using domestically manufactured frames or receivers capable of accepting imported parts. [See the President's Message to Congress Transmitting A Draft of Proposed Legislation Entitled The "Comprehensive Violent Crime Control Act Of 1989," H.R. Doc. No. 101-73, 101st Cong., 1st Sess. 81 (June 15, 1989)]. There is no evidence that this assembly restriction was intended to preclude the making of NFA weapons.

Further, as noted above, section 925(d)(3) prohibits the importation of three types firearms, i.e., nonsporting, NFA weapons, and surplus military weapons. Significantly, section 922(r) only addresses the assembly of "nonsporting" firearms and not the making of NFA weapons.
Since section 922(r) only addresses the assembly of "nonsporting" firearms, the lawfull making of short barrel rifles or shotguns would not be precluded by section 922(r).

Please note that this legal opinion applies very specifically to SBRs and shotguns which are made by shortening the barrel(s) of complete firearms which have been lawfully imported; it does not apply to the assembly of NFA weapons from imported parts.

With regard to the scenario(s) you proposed, if you are interested in manufacturing a short-barreled AK pattern rifle, you must do so only by shortening the original barrel of a lawfully imported rifle. This shortening procedure must not be preformed until you submit an ATF Form 1 ("Application to Make and Register a Firearm").

In Addition, FTB advises you to contact authorities wheere you reside to determing what, if any, State laws or local ordinances govern production or possession of such weapons.

We thank you for your inquiry and trust that foregoing has been responsive.

Sincerely yours,

Richard Vogg?? (can't read it)

for Sterling Nixon
Chief, Firearms Technology Branch


Citation (http://www.guns-and-ammunition.com/gna-home-building-reference-forum-72/do-922r-restriction-apply-nfa-builds-2366.html)

[xx7grant7x]

A threaded barrel would not be legal to be imported for civilians, and neither would a short barrel.

what about my saiga 12? it's got a threaded barrel although it's a shotgun so no suppressor but still threaded.....

[General Geoff]

akolleth, that is awesome info. Thanks for clearing that up.

[raysheen]

The ATF has already addressed this question in October of 2006 specifically and ruled that if you create a legal NFA item (SBR as an example) from a legally imported firearm, then it no longer falls into the 922r game
Agreed, there are multiple letters out that all state the same thing...922(r) does not apply once you are in NFA world.


When the wife is done (CRNA, certified registered nurse anestheologist)
not to be picky here but...
CRNA = certified registered nurse anesthetist
anesthetist = nurse
anesthesiologist = medical doctor
:D;)
...oh and she'll love it. Good pay, good hours, good lifestyle!

[ScottsGT]

not to be picky here but...
CRNA = certified registered nurse anesthetist
anesthetist = nurse
anesthesiologist = medical doctor

...oh and she'll love it. Good pay, good hours, good lifestyle!

No, your not being picky! Your Edumacating me! I'm glad to learn more about this world I'm being introduced to.
Thanks for the heads up.

[BryanP]

When the wife is done (CRNA, certified registered nurse anestheologist)


An anestheologist? Is that a preacher who puts you to sleep? :evil:

[collector rob]

Here are some detailed pics of one posted by an ower in France. Not 56k freindly.

http://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/7811043/m/508109877

[bugmenot]

Some parts of the gsg-5 are clearly plastic (foreend, stock, grip frame). What other parts of the gun are made from plastic?

[ScottsGT]

What other parts of the gun are made from plastic?

Not sure, but looking at the photos from the French website, the GSG-5's construction looks a LOT like my Son's Tippmann A-5, but just a different shape. Cast aluminum sides, plastic trigger group, the zinc plated screws and nuts holding the halves together. Don't these guys know you have to use blued or parkerized screws on a real firearm!! :evil:
Honestly, it's got me thinking real hard about dropping $500+ (yes +, I'm going to have to SBR this one to own it!) on a paintball gun outfitted with .22LR innerds when I could spend a little more and make a truly dedicated .22LR upper for my RRA AR-15, and have a real gun designed by gun mfgrs. I'd still have the "cool factor" with the AR platform. My only holdback there is I keep reading things about magazine reliability.
On further thought, I'm going to sit on the sidelines on the GSG-5 and see what the "first kid on the block" has to say about it.

[Markbo]

I am becoming even less interested in it since seemingly nobody can provide real and convincing accuracy information. It doesn't matter how cool it is. If it isn't accurate, it just isn't interesting!

[Ed DCB]

A lot of videos now on You Tube, I have ordered some metal targets the reduced size of a bowling pin, half inch thick, to get some fun with this toy.
All the shooters who try it find it really fun.I'll post more videos when it's done.

http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=LAzeQekrj8U

Happy 2008, Y'all!

[jeremy stanke]

does anyone know if the ones that are currently being sold are the ones with the fake suppressor or not? if they are, can the fake suppressor be unscrewed? and it says it will accept most mp5 accessories, does that mean a collapsible stock? thanks

[blockbuster]

L1 model with the mock silencer is the first of the series to be released. Heard from other forums that Gemtech and American Armaments may be looking to outfit this particular model.

More pics and info posted by www.suchar-enterprises.com, reading from other forums airsoft collapsible stocks , mounts are compatible . However check with your State laws regarding compliance.

[Luomu]

can the fake suppressor be unscrewed?

The fake suppressor can be unscrewed. And it does not screw into barrel, but into front sight base.

985 rounds through my gun now, and only a couple of failures to feed from my 5 magazines. A few more failures to ignite primers though, depending on ammo. Amount of misfires is not alarming, but I will look into it. Firing pin may need some reshaping for example. Gun's butt has developed a slight wobble, which would be annoying if this was an olympic match rifle. Overall I'm rather happy with the gun so far.

[TAB]

I really wish I did not see this thread...

[Hkmp5sd]

FYI, a real HK collapsible stock for the MP5 runs about $400.

[jeremy stanke]

yea i know, it would be pretty dumb to add a stock that is almost as much as the entire gun but if that was my only option i was going to do it. glad to hear that airsoft ones may work.

Luomu-is there anyway to fix that wobble?

[Shadow1198]

That seriously looks pretty much identical to the full stock (internally as well) on my Mp5a4 airsoft gun. ;)

[Luomu]

I quess I could try something to eliminate the wobble, Jeremy. But in reality it is so small it does not bother me yet. My AR15 tele-stock (Colt) wobbles about the same and I don't mind that either.

I find the gun prefers quality HV-ammo reliability-wise, allthough std-velocity works if the weather is not too cold. Excessively lubed bullets are best avoided, so no surprises there.

I must say (hope ruger fans are not terribly offended ;)), that this is so much better than a 10/22 (std model, stainless) I owned 10 years back. Reliability, accuracy, ergonomics, and even trigger are superior.

[blockbuster]

Great comment on your GSG-5 ! It may ruffle a few 10/22LR fans but at least reading your input helps dispell a lot of apprehension about reliability and quality of this gun we are so excited about!

BTW a 6mm washer will help eliminate that wobble you mentioned.

[lionking]

oh I want one!:cool:

[Atlantic Firearms]

FYI the GSG 5 rifles are in the US and at the customs warehouse, we hope to see these in 2- 3 weeks .

[blockbuster]

I just learned from a French GSG-5 owner that these guns are sold there for a $1,000.00 and that extra mags cost $75.00 a piece limit of 2 mags per owner.

Makes me thankful that a GSG-5 from www.suchar-enterprises only cost $499.00 and extra mags at $35.00 no limit !

[Ed DCB]

I had no problem with reliability, no FTF, FTE or any other incident except when I tried to eject an unfired round not sharply enough and it got stuck against the ejector. Got it out with my leatherman thanks to the wide ejection port.

http://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/7811043/m/508109877

http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z69/Quickload/GSG%205/T2.jpg

http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z69/Quickload/GSG%205/T1.jpg

http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z69/Quickload/GSG%205/GSG5138.jpg

[Atlantic Firearms]

The Germans build fine firearms there should be no problem with these rifles, they are backed up by a 2 year warranty and any warranty issues will be handled in the US by a factory authorized facility.

[Daemon688]

Will you be selling extra magazines through your website? Unless I missed them.....

[Atlantic Firearms]

Yes we have 500 extra mags on order but they will not be listed until we have confirmation that they will arrive with the first rifle shipment, price should be $34 ish range, we hope to have confirmation of the mags once the order has cleared customs.

[Markbo]

What is the length of pull on that gun? It looks awfully short.

Will you be offering any aftermarket match grade, Bentz chambered replacement barrels?

[04hemi]

Atlantic Firearms:

Are you guys going to be offering accessories? I'm mainly interested in the magazine clamp/couplers as I doubt the standard MP5 clamps will fit the gsg version.

[hksw]

Thank you to our French member for posting results with pictures and links.

[MikeH]

To Atlantic Firearms: Will you be able to block the 22-round magazine to 20 rounds so that it will be legal in Maryland?

[Zak Smith]

Shot it today.

http://demigodllc.com/photo/GSG-5/smaller/D462_4364_img.jpg (http://demigodllc.com/photo/GSG-5/?small=D462_4364_img.jpg)
............... Larger version of above photo. (http://demigodllc.com/photo/GSG-5/?small=D462_4364_img.jpg)
http://demigodllc.com/photo/GSG-5/smaller/D462_4398_img.jpg (http://demigodllc.com/photo/GSG-5/?small=D462_4398_img.jpg)
............... Larger version of above photo. (http://demigodllc.com/photo/GSG-5/?small=D462_4398_img.jpg)

http://demigodllc.com/photo/GSG-5/smaller/D462_4400_img.jpg (http://demigodllc.com/photo/GSG-5/?small=D462_4400_img.jpg)
............... Larger version of above photo. (http://demigodllc.com/photo/GSG-5/?small=D462_4400_img.jpg)

http://demigodllc.com/photo/GSG-5/smaller/D462_4424_img.jpg (http://demigodllc.com/photo/GSG-5/?small=D462_4424_img.jpg)
............... Larger version of above photo. (http://demigodllc.com/photo/GSG-5/?small=D462_4424_img.jpg)

Here's how the fake can connects
http://demigodllc.com/photo/GSG-5/smaller/D462_4369_img.jpg (http://demigodllc.com/photo/GSG-5/?small=D462_4369_img.jpg)
............... Larger version of above photo.

I'll have a write-up fready in a while.

[blockbuster]

Demigod you are the man !!! I checked out your other pics of the GSG-5 and must say that the anticipaion meter just spiked further up. Thanks for those great looking pics and your website content www.demigodllc.com is chockful of useful tactical info. I cant wait for the review.

Blcokbuster
www.suchar-enterprises.com

[Zak Smith]

That gun is actually the demo gun which was dropped off by a large distributor (might have been the importer) at a local gun shop which does a lot of business (Jensen Arms in Loveland CO).

[Zak Smith]

MP-5
http://demigodllc.com/photo/MP5/smaller/A100_0673_img.jpg (http://demigodllc.com/photo/MP5/?small=A100_0673_img.jpg)
............... Larger version of above photo. (http://demigodllc.com/photo/MP5/?small=A100_0673_img.jpg)

GSG-5
http://demigodllc.com/photo/GSG-5/smaller/D462_4323_img.jpg (http://demigodllc.com/photo/GSG-5/?small=D462_4323_img.jpg)
............... Larger version of above photo. (http://demigodllc.com/photo/GSG-5/?small=D462_4323_img.jpg)

MP-5
http://demigodllc.com/photo/MP5/smaller/A100_0677_img.jpg (http://demigodllc.com/photo/MP5/?small=A100_0677_img.jpg)
............... Larger version of above photo. (http://demigodllc.com/photo/MP5/?small=A100_0677_img.jpg)

GSG-5
http://demigodllc.com/photo/GSG-5/smaller/D462_4407_img.jpg (http://demigodllc.com/photo/GSG-5/?small=D462_4407_img.jpg)
............... Larger version of above photo. (http://demigodllc.com/photo/GSG-5/?small=D462_4407_img.jpg)

[Markbo]

*sigh*

40 pics of basically two things - the gun and someone shooting the gun and not ONE pic of targets.

Makes me wonder why everyone is so shy to brag about the accuracy. Unless it is more a 'lack thereof'????

[Zak Smith]

*sigh*

40 pics of basically two things - the gun and someone shooting the gun and not ONE pic of targets.
We have the only GSG-5 in shooters' hands in the country, other than the other about 10 samples which are locked in the importer's office right now. First time hands-on was yesterday, and we didn't have an opportunity to do accuracy testing. Good and useful reviews take research and time. I don't do BS articles which regurgitate marketing literature and don't do any real testing.

In the future, I can simply not post photos of new gear before the full report is ready (if there is one), if you'd prefer. Let me know.

[Mac Attack]

Zak Smith,

I look forward to reading your full review of the rifle once your research is completed.

[raysheen]

Zak Smith,

I look forward to reading your full review of the rifle once your research is completed.
Agreed! Any idea when the full review will be ready? A lot of us are quite excited about this one... Take your time and provide a good quality review...but how about a quick overview of what your initial impressions were. Cool? Fun? Junk? Reliable?
Thanks for the new pictures!

[El Tejon]

Zak, does the weapon run? Any preference on ammo that came to light?

Markbo, I wish more gun reviews had absolutely no mention of "accuracy" or showed targets as: 1. weapons are fired off benches:rolleyes: for the gun rags, 2. how many gun owners can shoot up to their weapons? Maybe one in 250 or 300?, 3. accuracy reports by gun rag hacks in flowered shirts are bedtime stories.

[Zak Smith]

Quick impressions: Fun little gun, will be even better when SBR'd and suppressed. Gun feels "solid", not junky. The trigger is a good MP5 replica-- long and kinda heavy. Sights are same as HK, so not great target peep sights, but good for plinking. The way to run this will be with a small red dot or low-power scope on a claw mount, I think. (We don't have one so I'm not sure if we'll be able to test that part.) My shooting partner will be doing some accuracy tests tonight. In the first 150 rounds we had a few malfunctions, but haven't figured out the patterns/causes yet.

[El Tejon]

Thanks for the quick answers, Zak. As well, thanks for telling us here at THR first.:)

(You only shot a cool little gun like that 150 rounds? Pressed for time or something?:D)

[Markbo]

First time hands-on was yesterday, and we didn't have an opportunity to do accuracy testing. In the future, I can simply not post photos of new gear before the full report is ready (if there is one), if you'd prefer. Let me know.


Not at all, Sir! I was just whining that of all the reports, pictures, posts, threads, what have you I have seen I have YET to see a single accuracy report. I don't know how long you have had this gun... I don't know what your schedule is... I don't know how many are 'out there' but I know there are some in Europe too.

So, you do what you need to do. I will continue to *sigh* and wait for someone, somewhere, sometime to have it in their hands long enough to get comprehensive accuracy testing done.

Patience is the earned with age.
I guess I ain't an old man yet! :p

p.s. can you tell me what the LOP is?

[Matt-J2]

I think some of the models are going to be significantly different in the accuracy dpt. anyway, just due to barrel length.

The barrel in the US model w/ fake suppressor looks to be at least twice as long as the one shown in the photos by Ed DCB, for instance.

[686S&W]

"Not sure, but looking at the photos from the French website, the GSG-5's construction looks a LOT like my Son's Tippmann A-5, but just a different shape. Cast aluminum sides, plastic trigger group, the zinc plated screws and nuts holding the halves together. Don't these guys know you have to use blued or parkerized screws on a real firearm!!"


Soooo, this is basically a clamshell design? Ummm, I think I'll pass on this one and buy a Walther or something. Not my cup of tea. Cool idea though, a .22 MP5.

[taliv]

deleted

[AK-TROY]

ATLANTIC FIREARMS....

Let us know when these are shipping out as soon as you find out. Have they been released from customs yet? What other details, if any, do you have?

Thanks.

[AK-TROY]

double post. sorry

[blockbuster]

Thanks Zak for letting us know that the body is tough and reliable . Like one of the earlier posts here, one of the concerns was the rigidity of the metal used in the gas cocking tube , upper reciever. Taking out this concern only notches up the excitement factor for this gun.

BTW, www.suchar-enterprises.com is still accepting pre-orders.


Blcokbuster

[Trumpet]

Great Zak! I would assume Jensen will be having them in stock? Any idea on an ETA or price?

Thanks
Rich

[Trumpet]

double tap

[Zak Smith]

I know Jensens has some incoming, but I don't know the ETA. I spoke to Bob Jensen late last week, and his word from the importer was they were in a crate in a port somewhere waiting for customs. Price is just under $500.

[USMC88-93]

Looked it over at Jensens in Loveland CO today, I will probably get one as a plinker. Now to find out what Ray can do for a suppressor for it...as it screams for two tax stamps.

It felt solid for what it is and the price range it occupies.

[Atlantic Firearms]

The rifles are expected to clear customs this week , once they clear it will still take a few weeks before they start to ship out to distributors and then to the ffl dealers.

[blockbuster]

seems like they are in the importers whse and is ready to ship the first allocations. Visit www.suchar-enterprises and stake your claim for these fun MP-5 plinkers !

[Atlantic Firearms]

Blockbuster are you mr suchar ?

[vis-à-vis]

Ah, frick. I thought I knew what I was going to do with my tax money and then I see this stupid thing.....

Subscribing.

[blockbuster]

Nope AF Mr. Suchar isnt Blockbuster . I am just a fan and supporter of his business and a loyal customer


Blockbuster
www.suchar-enterprises.com
accepting pre-orders for the GSG-5

[blockbuster]

Here's an impromptu review of a GSG-5 owner from the 10-8 forum:

"I picked up my GSG-5 today and made a short trip to the range. Here are my first impressions;

Overall out of the box it looks good. Selector is easy to manipulate, mags were a bit tight in the mag well and the mag catch is a bit stiff but I expect it will break in a bit. The rear sight is configured like the HK rifle sights not like the MP5 sight. The apertures are a bit small and I will be opening one up as I use the third largest opening on my MP5s. Overall barrel diameter is thin, but with the faux can on you'll never see it anyway.

Went to the range and did an extensive internet/gunwriter torture test (IE: 190 rounds ). Ammo was CCI mini mags, mags were loaded to 20 rounds (will hold 24, designed to hold 22).

In that time I had 2 failures of the bolt to lock back on the last round of the mag. While the MP5 does not do this the GSG-5 is designed to. I also had one occasion of a failure to feed on the first round of a mag. On locking the charging handle to the rear and then releasing it again the round then chambered. Beyond that there were no issues.

I did not shoot for any type of accuracy as I was pressed for time (night shift tonight). Targets were a 8 x 10" plate and 8" plate rack at 25 yards. Sights were hitting just a bit high right out of the box. The trigger was a little rough, but certainly not a deal breaker.

I did notice some wear on the upper receiver tube where the cocking handle notch is. I was loading in the same fashion as an MP5 (bolt to the rear, mag in give it a tug, slap cocking handle forward). I'm guessing this will be a normal occurrence and I will keep an eye on it to see if it continues or if it's just a matter of surface wear during break in. Again. nothing to get bent about, but something I noticed.

Overall it's a pretty neat little blaster. Obviously this was a very limited first outing. It will be interesting to see what experience others have and what bugs more extensive use brings about. Given the price of .22 ammo and the rising prices of centerfire ammo I expect some of these guns will see some impressive round counts. "

Blockbuster
www.suchar-enterprises.com
accepting orders for the GSG-5

[Zak Smith]

http://demigodllc.com/photo/GSG-5/icon/D462_4426_img.jpg
article | German Sport Guns' GSG-5: A .22 MP5 http://demigodllc.com/icon/extwh3.png (http://demigodllc.com/articles/gsg-5-mp5-in-22-lr/)

[Mac Attack]

Nice detailed and interesting review. I knew it would be worth the wait.

[Nomad101bc]

Is there going to be anyway to improve the grips without replacing the entire lower? I prefer pistol or notched grips on my firearms. Will it be able to mount a picanty rail system?

[Crunker1337]

Well, maybe if you spoke to a master of HK weapons like RDTS, they could help you.

[Zak Smith]

I just added some Gemtech info to the review.

[Markbo]

Thank you for that ver detailed and well written review that actually included - for the first time anywhere on the whole danged WWW that I have been able to find - a picture of a target and accuracy info!

I appreciate that very much. It has made my decision 100% easier to make!

Mark

[Quiet]

Great review!


You might want to spell check it (in the suppressor section of the review). :neener:

[Zak Smith]

Fixed a couple typos, and got some more information about the importer/distributor. I do make it a point to include relevant accuracy information in reviews.

[ScottsGT]

Hey Zak,
Whats the white blob around the bolt handle in the last photo? Finish coming off or just a blob of snow??

[Zak Smith]

Snow...

[blockbuster]

just for s**t and gi****s ..here's an option too convert a 10/22 to an HK

MP5 clone for those who think that the GSG-5 just doesnt cut the mustard.

Looking at this offering just elevated my excitement for the GSG-5 !

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...?Item=90906285


blockbuster
www.suchar-enterprises.
still accepting pre-orders for the GSG-5

[Nomad101bc]

They will no doubt come out with a full civilian MP5 if the GSG 5 sells as well as they anticipated.

[Zak Smith]

They will no doubt come out with a full civilian MP5 if the GSG 5 sells as well as they anticipated.
Unlikely due to import restrictions.

[buzz_knox]

Unlikely due to import restrictions.

Exactly. The .22 version falls outside the import restrictions, while a 9mm version in the current from would be prohibited under current law. You will see a 9mm version only if it's either made in the US, imported in a sporter version and converted using US parts, or the Supremes strike down the import ban.

[Nomad101bc]

Well no one says they cant do what everyone else does to get around import tarrifs. Simply set up a factory here and use US parts but with their German design.

[Daemon688]

Setting up shop in America is easier said than done.

[LiquidTension]

Anybody here (other than Blockbuster) have any experience with Suchar Enterprises? They're the last ones I can find accepting orders but I've never heard of them.

[Zak Smith]

Jensen Arms in Loveland CO is getting a bunch in.

[tmajors]

Bumpage. Just found out about this baby today. I am so going to get one :)

[Mac Attack]

I just picked mine up from my dealer. First impression is this thing is heavier and longer than I thought it would be. I plan to take it to the range tomorrow and will report back with what I think.

[doneking]

I'm just gonna flat out wet myself when this thing hits my FFL next week.........



DK

[tmajors]

I got two weeks till I can put one on layaway...and that depends on if my local shop will take layaway on it ;(

[blockbuster]

Finally ! Got the GSG-5 and a big WHEW !!! All my fears about the build quality has "shot" out the proverbial window. As those who have dabbled in aisoft , The GSG-5 has taken major design component build from airsoft as evidenced by the clam shell reciever , compatibility with airsoft accessories ,a fixed hollow stock aka the airsoft battery compartment . Notice the grip has a slotted cover gents? The original MP5 grip as we know is hollwed out . That slotted cover is where the metal heat sink for airsoft MP5 is attached as the pistol grip is where the electric motor is housed.

I give my two thumbs up for German Sports for not using the pot metal alloy that the airsoft guns are made with. The GSG version is heavy , built solid ,robust and crafted meticulously to ensure hours and loads of conitnous fun! Trust me this GSG5 will survive a drop test unlike my previous airsoft MP5 now broken in half.

Blockbuster
suchar-enterprises.com

[Atlantic Firearms]

Here is link to a recent review

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxHj_5V975o

[Mac Attack]

I ran a brick of Federal HV .22 Lr through my rifle yesterday and did not have a single issue. Accuracy is not nearly as good as my Ruger 10/12 or Marlin Bolt but then again we are comparing apples to oranges. I plan to try it again today with Remmington Subsonic's to see if it will function. Overall, I am very happy with this rifle in quality, build and functionality.

Where can I purchase a scope mount for my GSG-5. I like the sites but they are not conducive to accurate shooting.

[ScottsGT]

Mac Attack,
Let me know how that subsonic works for you. I got a positive review straight from GSG, but I'd like some real user input. I just picked up my supressor from my dealer on Friday, so I'm ready to go either AR 15 SBR or the GSG cut down. Still a toss up.

[Mac Attack]

ScottsGT. I will report back this afternoon on how well the GSG-5 does with subsonics.

I would see if you can buy a short barrel from GSG rather than cut it down. When I am ready to go the SBR route I plan to do just that. Otherwise you have to have the barrel cut, threaded and recrowned.... better to go with a factory shortened barrel.

[ScottsGT]

I would see if you can buy a short barrel from GSG rather than cut it down. When I am ready to go the SBR route I plan to do just that. Otherwise you have to have the barrel cut, threaded and recrowned.... better to go with a factory shortened barrel.


That's a thought, but importing a barrel might be a real hassle with all the fed. laws on the book. I have a real good Class 3 FFL/Gunsmith that could do the job in one afternoon for $50! And if I wait for GSG to start importing the SBR versions, that too might be another year.
I'm currently leaning toward the SBR-AR 15. My dealer/'smith said he would cut down my mid length .223 to a shorty for $50, and then Spikes Tactical has some real nice uppers in .22LR. I'm still going to sit on the sidelines a while on this one though. Just to see what pans out with Spikes making their own .22 conversion and dropping the Ceiner line, and with the GSG and what comes of it.

[Markbo]

I think I'll sit this one out until somebody makes a match barrel for it. :D

[blockbuster]

gsg-5 = $ 499.00

2 extra mags = $70.00

Brick of .22LR = $10.00 The looks of all those envious shooters in the range today thinking I have a fully suppressed MP-5 as I shot my new toy = PRICELESS !!!!!


blockbuster
www.suchar-enterprises
accepting orders for the GSG5

[mbdolfin]

Does anyone know if it is NJ legal? It probably isn't.....but i thought i would ask. thanks

[tmajors]

Here is link to a recent review

Been trying to think of a reason to not buy one and that didn't help!

Wife gave me permission to get on next paycheck :).

[tmajors]

Where can I purchase a scope mount for my GSG-5. I like the sites but they are not conducive to accurate shooting.

Supposedly any MP5 accessories will work on it except caliber specific of course. So rails, mounts, stocks, etc should work.

[Mac Attack]

I took my rifle out for the third time today and have a total of 1000 rounds through it without cleaning. I have had 2 FTF's and 1 FTE during the later end of 1000 rounds. I believe that all 3 were due to me holding the magazine well/magazine when shooting. The first 500 rounds were Remington HP high velocity rounds and the last 500 were Federal high velocity rounds. I did try a box of Remington subsonic's and they functioned just fine. It's hard to tell if it's dirty or not but I can feel the bolt is not as smooth as it was when I first shot it.

I have to say that I am quite taken by this rifle. It is fun to shoot and definitely an eye turner. My first two days of shooting were for functionality and relieability while the third day was for accuracy. I did not have a single hiccup the first two days but the 2 FTF's and 1 FTE were on the third day after the rifle was good and dirty. I shot from the supported position with open sites at targets 25 yards away. I routinely averaged groups of one large jagged hole for an entire magazine. I would say the hole measured 1.0" - 1.5" which isn't as tight as my Ruger 10/22 or Marlin Microgroove bolt action but isn't too bad. The sites are not that good and as soon as I can find one, I would like to purchase a scope mount for my GSG-5. I bet with a high powered scope I could really do some tight groups.

For a .22 this rifle has more kick than my Ruger 10/22, Marlin bolt action or AR15 w/ .22 conversion unit. It's well made, heavy and doesn't feel cheap like some people speculated it would be...ala Airsoft. I was planning on applying for a SBR for my GSG-5 so I could use my Gemtec suppressor but due to some changes in my life I decided against it.

One more thing, more magazines are a must. The magazines are a PITA to load. Unlike other magazines which have a thumb spring depressor were you could just drop the rounds in and they would auto adjust. The magazine of the GSG-5 will not do that. However, you can fit 24 rounds into the magazine rather than the advertised 22.

[Zak Smith]

Mac Attack,

Sounds like you got the same group sizes we did.

-z

[USMC88-93]

Edited to add: Zak to your knowledge are there going to be any other purpose built supressor options for this other than Gemtec's two options?
Ray is at SHOT I think so when I picked it up today an Jensens I was not able to talk to him about SBR ans suppressor ideas for it.

Picked mine up from Jensen Arms in Loveland CO today. Overall my expectations of the firearm have been met. That being said I am not overly impressed by the stock attachment method. I like the fact the weapon has a little weight to it, but the stock itself felt flimsy to me (before it was attached to the weapon). The one small two sided screw holding it on seemed to me to be less than adequate. Strange as it may seem if it were held on by two screws I wouldn't have given it a second thought. I have not shot it yes so I can not comment as to how it feels during use and I am unfamiliar with the ergonomics of the MP-5 which it was patterned after but I also think I would like to have a little more weight to the stock as well. Not that it feels unbalanced and maybe I am just basing it on how light the stock felt prior to assembly.
I'll replace with a better picture later.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v651/PhotoTWB/gsg-5.jpg

[Zak Smith]

We'll be making something for it eventually.

-z

[Mac Attack]

Are then any dealers who have magazines and claw mounts? I am looking to purchase a few mags and a mount.....

[blockbuster]

Gents,

Visit www.suchar-enterprises.com , The photos will show the GSG-5 with various retractable stocks and even one with just an MP5-K end cap.

From previous experience and tinkering this weekend with various airsoft stocks and mounts this is what we know .

Stocks:
GSG-5 will fit the airsoft version of the A3 stock. You cannot shoot the GSG-5 with a fully retracted stock as it partially covers the ejector port. The GSG5 will also fit the
airsoft version of the PDW folding stock. The GSG5 will also fit the end cap . We are currently waiting to recieve our airsoft version of the UMP stock and also the J stock version of the airsoft MP5.

We know that there has been justifiable concern regarding the flush,fit and finish of the airsoft stock to the GSG-5. Gents, remember that the clamshell type reciever of the GSG-5 is directly lifted from airsoft so therefore making the parts compatible. IMO , the A3 airsoft version fits snugly to the reciever. The PDW stock also feels heavy and solid with virtually no wobbling .

Mounts:
The GSG-5 can and will accomodate the airsoft verion of the MP5 mounts . Therefore airsoft versions of the lo mount rail , hi-lo mount , claw will fit the GSG-5 no problems.

Scopes:
Currently the cheap fake ACOG , fake Aimpoints, fake Elcans and fake EOTECHS will fit on the GSG-5 . That being said I am sure the real steel versions you guys own should fit there no problem.

SE will make an announcement soon that these GSG5 compatible accessories that will be on sale at the website.be Please be a bit patient as the items will be posted on www.suchar-enterprises.com SE does not anticipate any problems obtaining these items however they just need a little time to prep.

Please contact SE thru the website to let them know what type stocks ,mounts or acessories you wish to immediately purcahse.

Thanks.
Blockbuster

P.S. should you wish send me a PM and I will gladly answer your questions regarding airsoft compatible parts as I have dabbled in airsoft for some time now using airsoft for LE , mil and civilian tac training .

[Lightsped]

How easy or difficult is it to break the gun down for basic cleaning?

[Mac Attack]

Does anyone know if a MP5SD barrel shroud would fit a GSG-5?

[Amish_Bill]

Hmmm.... has anyone else entertained the idea of boring out and porting the part of the barrel that extends past the front sight and building a baffle stack & tube that screws over like the fake can does? You could have a non-SBR integral that can be taken down for cleaning... ;-)

[Zak Smith]

I think that would be viable if there were a way to port the barrel without leaving burrs on the inside or affecting accuracy.

[Mac Attack]

I was thinking the same thing. Would it be legal to port the barrel under the fake can and would it do anything to quite the rifle?
I was thinking the same thing. Would it be legal to port the barrel under the fake can?

I have a suppressor but I don't want to go through the effort to have it SBR'd. The only thing is that even if I had the barrel threaded it would look really stupid with a 12 inch (6 inches of fake and 6 inches of real can) hanging off the end of the barrel.

[ScottsGT]

Not if it supresses the sound. Not even 1db.

[Zak Smith]

The ATF would not be happy with that arrangement.

[Mr.Revolverguy]

Got my new GSG5 from a local shop that had 3 of them. I purchased 2 additional magazines to go along with it. I have not fired it yet and the only bad thing is I can't decock it because I am missing the Level Indicator as it is called in the book. The shop looked through all 3 box's and the Level indicator was not in any of them. The other bad piece and what scares me is that I called the number on the book here in the US and the phone just rings and rings no answering machine, voicemail or anything. Is anyone else missing theirs?

Nevermind so much for reading the manual :) thats what I get for reading it. You do not need the level indicator to decock it, even though the manual says you do.

[mrarizona]

How do you decock it then?

[Mr.Revolverguy]

http://www.mfiap.com/airsoft/acce/mfi_mp5.htm

Mainly the handguard with the rails?

[doc2rn]

I want the American 180 first.

[Mr.Revolverguy]

How do you decock it then?

I just take the magazine out of mine. Pull the charing handle all the way to the rear and up, then back down and my bolt goes home.

[mrarizona]

Thought it was kinda funny what the manual says..

[Mr.Revolverguy]

Well tomorrow I hope to get out to test my GSG5. I picked up different brands of ammo today to see how it all works and will report back.

Here is the ammo I have

Federal Bulk Box 36gr
Winchester SuperX HV 40gr
American Eagle HV 38gr
Federal Champion HV 40gr
Remington Target SV 40gr
Remington Subsonic 38gr

Can't wait to get out.

[paintballdude902]

i think this will be my first gun purchase in septemebr when i turn 18

i will be able to make it into an sbr legally right as long as i do all the paper work and all that stuff

there wont be a problem with it being an import will there?

[rbernie]

Sporting Arms in Lewisville, TX has three of these in stock. I drooled on one for a while, but I tried to clean up after myself. :)

[BTR]

I think to make a SBR you have to be 21. Does anyone know differently?

[Mr.Revolverguy]

Had a great time at the range today. If time permits I plan on going tomorrow as well. I will give a full range report after tomorrow. I did put 500 rounds through the GSG5 today and not one hiccup. I even put 100 rounds of subsonic through it and it was sort of like shooting a BB Gun, and today the subsonics were the most accurate.

Hopefully tomorrow will go just as well. Stay tuned full range report to come.

[blockbuster]

Gents,

I am so glad that the negative specualtions concerning the GSG5's reliabilty, quality . etc., etc., have all but vanished from the various threads. Most topics across the boards I visit have touched on superb reviews, happy GSG5 owners, questions on compatibility with airsoft accessories and a lot of moaning and groaning from people who didnt jump on the bandwagon earlier on and had opted to stay on the fence.

Thanks GSG for putting out a great product. Guess like myself we had been disappointed by one too many products that were hyped early but failed to make measure when it really counted. For all of you new proud GSG5 owners happy plinking ...keep the rave reviews a comin so that more guys can join in on the fun we are all having!

Blockbuster

www.suchar-enterprises.com
taking orders for the GSG5
soon to have stocks, mounts and optics.

[ScottsGT]

I think to make a SBR you have to be 21. Does anyone know differently?

Well, on page two, number 13 d on the Form 4, it asks: "Under 21 years of age?"

So I would say, yes, you have to be 21. Just buy the GSG now and do a Form 4 thru a mfgr, or a Form 1 if your dedicated to never selling it, and SBR it for your 21st birthday.

[doneking]

You can get approved for an SBR if you are under 21 years of age. It all depends on filling out the paperwork, dotting your I's and crossing your T's. Your state laws will have a factor in the equation also.

Don't take other folks word on it...Send in your paperwork and get a formal letter from the BATF. It has been accomplished before.




DK

[mrarizona]

From arfcom....
Originally Posted By VTDefender:
I received mine and its very nice.

I've put about 1000 rounds of mixed ammo through it since friday.

I noticed that after about 200 rounds I get an inordinate amount of failures to fire. At least five or six per mag.

there is no firing pin mark on the cases that fail.

I break it down....clean it.....spray out the firing pin channel and its fine for another 200rds or so..then the problems begin again.

As soon as I pick up a set of star drive bits from the hardware store today I'm going to take apart the bolt and bolt housing to really clean out the firing pin channel.

I'm hoping there's something in there causing an obstruction.

If thats not it I've got to assume that its an issue with the firing pin safety.

Disappointing.

This happened with five or six different brands of ammo.



Same exact thing happened to me this weekend as well. Everything was going smoothly until I hit the 150-200 round mark. I had atleast 4-5 FTF per mag when shooting slowly. Like VTD, there were no marks on the cases from the firing pin. I did clean it, didn't see any root to this problem, but was unable to go out and test again to see if the problem persisted. I was using CCI Mini Mags and CCI Standard rounds...

We think that the problem may be the trigger mechanism. It has a bar that pushes forward when you pull the trigger...... in theory this bar pushes a spring loaded detent aside which allows the firing pin to travel forward.

I believe that this is the root of the problem. I think that the bar is failing to push in teh detent enough occasionally resulting in the hammer falling with the firing pin safety still engaged. :scrutiny:

Any help or further information would help greatly...

[Zak Smith]

Can you verify that it's going fully into battery?

[vtdefender]

That occurred to me also.

It sure seemed like the bolt was going fully into battery every time.

I watched a friend shoot it as we were trying to diagnose the problem. I watched the action carefully and saw no indication of anything out of the ordinary.

I guess next time I take it out I will shoot slowly when the problem arises and check before each shot whether the bolt is fully closed or not.

ETA: the strangest thing about it is the consistency of the round count when the problem arises. It usually crops up on magazine 6 or 7....then continues until cleaning.

The first four mags are always flawless...

[vtdefender]

I also just noticed that my bolt hold open spring has disappeared.....:scrutiny:

[Mr.Revolverguy]

Yes when you take your bolt out there is a spring behind it that can fall out if not careful. Hopefully I do not start to have this problem, I have not got a chance to take mine back out yet. But so far with 500 rounds through it no problem at all.

[vtdefender]

Luckily my wife hasnt vacuumed since friday.

I just found it under the couch :D

[Mr.Revolverguy]

VT,

If you stretch that spring or get a bigger one to go in there it will not fall out. There is an indention on top of the release it should fit over. Luckily I took mine completely apart when I first got it for a good cleaning and noticed this and rectified the situation.

Glad you found it because this will prevent the bolt from going home and maybe this was some of your problem?

[vtdefender]

When I reinstalled it I noticed that it seemed slightly too short so I did stretch it a little.

I'll hit the range again on thursday weather permitting.

I experienced the original failures to fire before ever taking it apart so I still need to trouble shoot that issue. At least now I wont be wondering why it sometimes took two or three racks on the charging handle to close the bolt on a fresh mag though :)

[Mr.Revolverguy]

Let us know how it goes. I still love mine and do not regret the purchase. Soon as the weather breaks and I get a chance to get back out I have a ton of different ammo to test in it.

[Mac Attack]

AR15.com has a thread out which shows which airsoft parts are compatible with the GSG-5. From the list of parts I was able to track down a claw mount for my rifle. The particular claw mount model I purchased wasn't my first choice but it was the only choice at my local airsoft store.

I mounted my EoTech 512 on my rifle but have not had a chance to sight it in yet. One thing I noticed is how much higher it sits than the visual plain of the open sights. I actually had to lift my head up to view the recticle. I have not shot a MP5 with optics so am not sure if this is the way it really is. Also, the front end of the sight is really close to the charging handle.

It will take some getting used to but I think everything will be fine. I plan to head to the range tomorrow to shoot my muzzleloader and will try to sight my GSG-5/EoTech in and will report back. Just for giggles, I plan to also mount a high powered scope to test for accuracy.

Here are some pictures of the claw mount and sight on my rifle.
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y208/mmacayan/GSG-5/ClawMount.jpg
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y208/mmacayan/GSG-5/ClawMountandEoTech.jpg
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y208/mmacayan/GSG-5/GAG-5withEoTech.jpg

[BlazingAngel01]

I want one but Michigan short Barrel law.That also stopped my dreams of a P90.

[ScottsGT]

I want one but Michigan short Barrel law.That also stopped my dreams of a P90.


As pictured above, it is legal. Fake supressor covering the 16" barrel. Go for it!

[Quiet]

I want one but Michigan short Barrel law.That also stopped my dreams of a P90.
The FN PS90 should be legal.

[Hkmp5sd]

The FN PS90 should be legal.


He wants the SBR version of the PS90 and SBRs are not legal in MI for civilians.

[diesel83]

The GSG-5 looks like a lot of fun, but it's over-priced to the tune of $250 or so if they want it to be a hit.

[mercury0_0]

They're already a hit.

[mojohona]

Atlantic firearms any word on what you are going to offer members?

[Magic_Man]

Any word on the 10 round mags yet?

Anyone besides Atlantic carry them?

[Atlantic Firearms]

No 10 rounders as of today , they keep telling us they will be coming in soon but no exact date . We have been getting in a few more rifles than normal so that is a good sign .

[Ragnar Danneskjold]

How quiet and accurate is the GSG compared to say, a 10/22?

[Stevie-Ray]

It's more accurate than I am, evidently. I just got mine on saturday after a 2 month wait, and took it to the range yesterday. The results are that I need an optical sight for these old eyes. Maintaining sight picture is a pain for me nowadays, especially standing with a bad back. Good thing I bought the top rail. I could hit the black with every shot as long as I wasn't rapid firing. Rested, I could keep it in the 10 ring. Accuracy was great, but ammo was cheap and worth it. 2 FTEs due to low powder on a few of Federal's HPs in the 550 rd bulk pack. Blast indicated some were lower than standard, but not low enough to stall the action. Other than crappy ammo, it ran without a hitch and is pure fun. I didn't stop grinning til I cleaned it.

http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s66/GitchiManitou/100_0492.jpg?t=1211419066

[Acera]

Great looking little gun. I saw them at the Reliant Center (Houston) Gun Show this past weekend. A number of tables had them all for $550.00. What surprised me, Carters Country who is normally expensive has them for $500.00 with a couple in stock. Some of the sales guys at Carters did not even know what they were last week when I looked at the first one I have ever seen.

[SG1]

I went to the range last Friday and a guy there had one. I saw his friend firing it and heard him say it's German so I had to walk down and be nosey :D

He offered to let me fire it and I couldn't refuse. I loved it! I only put around 10 rounds through it, but it felt good and even though the suppressor is supposed to be fake, it was quieter and had less recoil than my Remmy 597. Nice trigger too. I think he said he picked it up for $500 from a local gun shop.

Now I'm working on the wife to authorize the purchase. She has seen me looking at the .22 AK's that are in the $200 range and wants to know why I have to have the $500 .22:confused:

[TG13]

i wish that it was in .17HMR, instead of .22LR..

[jwalt01]

i pick mine up in about two weeks and i cant wait:evil:

[mojohona]

when you place the deposit there is an areas marked comments, just write in High Road user name ---- , we have not ironed out the final perk but it will be one of the following, a discount, free ship or a extra mag, we will determine this in Jan once we find out when the mag shipment is set to arrive.
__________________
Atlantic Firearms.com
Phone 410 352 5183
sales@atlanticfirearms.com
www.atlanticfirearms.com



I ask again, what are you doing for members? It has been a while since I have asked this.

[Daemon688]

I got free shipping.

[Magic_Man]

ANyone know of any NJ or PA shops w/these in stock?

[SimpleIsGood229]

The Houston Gander Mtn. at 290 and 1960 has at one in one of the cases.