[Ian11]

I'm a fan of all the main defense calibers. 9mm, .40, .357 SIG, .45 ACP, and even the 10mm. We all have our favorites but few want to admit that a handgun is "only" a handgun. And in the greater scheme of things it doesn't really make that much of a difference which you choose. I've read a few "real life" reports where citizens had to use their handgun for self defense at GlockTalk, SIGForum, 1911Forum, and elsewhere. And whether they were using a 9mm or a .45 what got them through was their training and a willingness to fight. Not the type of gun or caliber they used.

[NC Shooter]

Every caliber has a purpose and will be better than another for one particular reason or another.

Me? I still like my 45's

[Ala Dan]

I likes em' all; defense caliber's that is!:D :rolleyes: :uhoh:

Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member

[Dobe]

It does matter.

Your skill matters:
how much you practice, how much you study, the classes you attend.

Your equipment matter:
how it fits your hand, how it naturally point, the trigger, etc.

Your mental attitude matters also.
This includes as you have touch upon, the preparedness and dedication to the fight.

But all of the above does not mean that the caliber is not important. For some reason someone in a book wrote that a large caliber and a small caliber are so close in size in relation to the human body that any difference does not matter. If this were the case, then we would all be shooting .22 lr or at least .22 magnums. Any additional surface area of the wound that causes more bleeding is a plus, any at all.

Dobe, and this is just my humble .45 ACP opinion

[Erich]

Shot placement, shot placement, shot placement.

[Leibster]

All the calibers you mentioned possess the ability to incapacitate as intended.

While some may argue that one caliber is better than another, it would be silly to argue that any of those calibers are ineffective.

--Leibster

[Jeeper]

Shot placement, shot placement, shot placement.

Ditto times a million.

and I will add

Practice, Practice, Practice

I always find it entertaining when someine thinks that because they carry a 45 they are going to knock someone flat on their a$$. Having said that. I carry a 45.

[Soap]

IME, the most ardent caliber war freaks are the same ones that don't train and couldn't run a mile without having a coronary. YMMV of course.

[David4516]

I think it is important. But not the only important factor, just one of many. Shot placement is the most important factor... but cailber is probably #2. Think about it, you could be a PERFECT shot, but if all your shooting is .22 short, you might be in trouble anyway. On the other hand, I think that as long as you are shooting something equal to or greater than .380, it doesn't make much differance. My carry gun is a 9mm Makarov (aka 9X18 ), and I don't feel it is too small. Some people tell me that .45 ACP is the only way to go, but I don't think any of them would volunteer to stand in front of me when I'm shooting either...

[clubsoda22]

the ammo you use rather than the caliber you pick is what makes the difference. If it was all FMJ, then yeah, you'd want a .45 over a 9mm. But with the right hollowpoint or fragmenting ammo, the difference is negligable.

[Snake Eyes]

I hate unsubstantiated statistics, but for the life of me I can't remember where I heard this. So you decide if you want to beleive it or not...But I distinctly remember reading somewhere that 85% of people shot with handguns survive their injuries.

Anecdote #2:

In my Arizona CCW class, one module was taught by a retired FBI agent. Any one who took their class at the old Shooters World on Indian School and 28th Avenue probably remembers him (Ron Something??). He discussed an incedent where several (more than 5) FBI agents were attempting to aprehend a fleeing felon. Every one emptied their guns at the suspect in his auto, including two agents with shotguns. The suspect was hit only twice and survived.

My opinion from everything I've read is that if YOU are good enough--and I mean a level most of us will probably never attain, like professional--caliber doesn't matter. If you're not good at all, caliber doesn't matter. If you are some where in the middle, caliber probably STILL doesn't matter but it might give you a little tiny bit of edge to have a big enough caliber.

It is also my very humble opinion, contrary to most opinions, that .32 is in fact enough caliber. (Asbestos underwear on, running like heck!)

[444]

I not only agree but I will go out on a limb and say that, of those calibers you mention, there is essentially no difference over the long haul.

[Standing Wolf]

I believe it's a matter of bullet placement, bullet placement, and bullet placement. I personally prefer the .357 magnum to all others, but I'm sure there are plenty of people who loathe the caliber.

[Rick Blaine]

I agree that among gun enthusiasts, good shot placement is an equalizer. Most people here probably practice on a regular basis, and I'm sure that many could get the job done if they had to with anything between a .32 and a .45 auto. For the average citizen who maybe doesn't put in a lot of practice I would prefer to see them buy something in the middle with manageable recoil, such as a 9mm or even a .38 revolver. For them it's better not to go so small in caliber as to require perfect placement, and not so large as to require strong hands to handle the recoil. For me, self defense begins at 9mm. I carry .40 S&W most days.

[Lone_Gunman]

Shot placement is a variable that can't be controlled to any large degree under stress.

While it may be of most importance, it is also least controllable.

.45 Caliber bullets are a constant.

1400 fps from a 357 is a constant.

Maximize the constants.

In other words, I would prefer a 45 or 357. I usually carry a 32 though.

Makes no sense, does it?

[bdhawk]

many years ago i worked in a small slaughterhouse. we used a ruger .22 auto pistol with long rifle ammo, to shoot the animals in the kill shute. every steer that was shot couldn't hit the floor fast enough. it was just like a marrionet with it's strings cut.

whats my point? even the lowly .22 will get the job done if the placement is adequate. the trick is to get the "bad guys" to stand still in a kill shute.

[New_comer]

If only the .45ACP guys admit that the 9mm is the most efficient in doing what handguns are designed to do in the first place, that the 10mm Long and its cousin, the 10mm Kurtz, were never part of the argument, nor are these the answer, then this "which is the better caliber" issue wouldn't have been blown out of proportion...

Flame suit on!!!:evil: :neener: :cool: :D

[Jaco]

Gun forums are like photography forums - Everyone discussing the hardware, and very few threads on technique. I've seen brilliant photos taken with throwaway cameras and kills with .22 Standard Velocity, with the .22 you just have to practise more. Bigger guns (like more expensive cameras) would help you, but the old rules still apply:
1. You've got to have it with you.
2. It has to be reliable.
3. You have to hit something with it.

[Son of John]

No matter what you carry, somebody can come along with something bigger and faster. This goes from .22 to .45 to .454 Casull. Then when you think you've got the best handgun, somebody with a puny rifle walks in and has you beat. And on and on till some guy drives up in an M-1 Abrams.

Then the guy get's out of the M-1 and someone shoots him with a .22.

Sure is funny reading how serious some people are about what bullet they shoot and how it is "THE ONE". Also funny how common sense doesn't seem to factor into these kind of arguments.

[Ky Larry]

It come down to personal preference. Practice,skill, and attitude are more important than bore size and muzzle velocity. I like a .45 ACP because it has proven itself to work but so have other calibers. Shoot what you like. It's your butt on the line.

[10-Ring]

It comes down to shot placement, practice, personal preference, practice, quality equipment, practice, & then caliber. Sure, I'd much prefer carrying my USP 45 than my Jetfire, but circumstances dictate what gets carried from time to time.

[Coronach]

I think its a continuum. Is a well-placed round of .45 ACP significantly better than a similarly placed round of .25 ACP? Heck yeah. However, it is the classic decelerating curve. Once you reach a certain level of performance (and we can all debate where that is), the differences start getting smaller and smaller and smaller.

I would not feel undergunned with anything at or above .38 Special. Others won't feel comfortable unless they're toting .454 Casull. *shrug*

And, as always, carry the gun with which you can hit reliably (and this is a factor of caliber, frame, grips, sights, etc). That is a far better determiner of what is best for your defense than caliber alone.

JMO, no warranties expressed or implied.

Mike

[Skunkabilly]

IME, the most ardent caliber war freaks are the same ones that don't train and couldn't run a mile without having a coronary. YMMV of course.

Dude, shut up and just get a Glock :P

IMO Caliber selection is important and must fit the user, but arguing over minute differences is stupid.

[LeonCarr]

One day the gun student walks up to the gun guru and asks "Gun guru, which handgun cartridge provides the best stopping power?" The gun guru hands the gun student a paper target, and says "When you can shoot all of your rounds into the black part of this target, I will give you the answer to your question". A few days later, the gun student walks up to the gun guru and says "I did what you told me, and shot all of my rounds inside of the black part of the target. When I finished, I realized that I did not need to know the answer to my question." The gun guru smiled.

I personally use the LeonCarr - 3F method, regardless of caliber. Fire 'til the Felon Falls.

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

[Intune]

I remember reading somewhere (famous line) that there have been people shot with .22’s in a non-lethal area who have gone into shock & died. Contrasted by people who have been lethally shot but continued to fight until blood loss put them down. With that said, is my thinking flawed in that I believe that a perfectly placed .22 solid through the heart will not put down MOST people as quickly as a perfectly placed .454 hollowpoint in the same location? Edumacate me!

[444]

I believe you are correct in your second statement. Put a larger hole in the heart and the person dies faster. How fast either shot "puts them down" is up to that individual person.

"there have been people shot with .22’s in a non-lethal area who have gone into shock & died."
The definition of shock is hypoxia at the celular level. If they are hypoxic, it is secondary to the gunshot wound meaning that the wound was not, "non-lethal".

[Coronach]

No, Intune, you're correct. The wee lil .22 has killed a lot of people. Wounded a lot more, too. And if you could magically turn all of the people shot-but-wounded with a .22 into people who were shot with a .454 Casull in the same location, a truckload more of them would be dead.

However, the key factor in that argument is not the change in caliber, but the liberal use of magic. ;)

Mike

[WAPS]

I agree that the debate over caliber is overblown, and here is why. What is the intended purpose of the projectile? To cause tissue damage / disruption. For this purpose, YES bigger is better!

However, of what benefit is a bigger projectile if the shooter cannot control the weapon and misses a vital area? The answer NONE!

A well placed 9mm to the RIGHT lung will be almost if not as effective as a 45acp. Therefore the key element here is as has been stated repeatedly.....
shot placement and controlibility.

Be Safe

Williams Associates Protective Services, LLC
www.wa-protective.com

[AndABeer]

If you are only considering human assailants, yeah, they are overblown. If you live in a rural or semi-rural area then I think one must consider defense senarios involving other species of predators and "gun up".

[pax]

It all boils down to Accuracy, Power, and Speed.

Accuracy -- If you miss, it doesn't count.

Power -- a BB gun isn't going to do as much good as a Howitzer. Bigger is generally better if your goal is to stop someone. Oh, and BTW, the lowly .22 has killed plenty of people, but it isn't good at stopping them right this very minute -- which is the name of the game in defensive shooting.

Speed -- Doesn't matter how accurately or with what power you can deliver that bullet, if you give the other guy time to kill you first.

All that said, given certain parameters, the caliber wars are really overdone. A 9mm JHP and a .45 are not going to give radically different results, if delivered with equal speed and accuracy.

pax

We hear of an unfortunate woman who, during an nighttime asthma attack, confused the small handgun she kept under her pillow with an asthma inhaler and proceeded to relieve her symptoms. It was not a fatal mistake, partly because she used a .25 ACP, which everyone knows is not sufficient to clear sinuses. -- Jeff Cooper