[Slater]

What modern hunting/sporting arms use variations of the old Mauser 98 action? Has anyone substantially improved on this particular design?

[dfariswheel]

Virtually every bolt action rifle designed since the Mauser 1898 is either a modified version of the '98, or uses '98 features. MOST bolt actions are simply one form or another of a Mauser "clone".

It's sometimes difficult to remember that Mauser INVENTED what we know as bolt action rifles. The rotating bolt with front locking lugs, the magazine system, the firing pin system, the action inletted into a one piece stock with recoil shoulders were ALL his invention, and all are used on just about all "modern" bolt rifles.

The 1898 Mauser is a very rare case of perfection. There is NOTHING that can be changed about the basic design that will improve it.
Every change to the basic design has been to allow the design to be made faster, or cheaper.

The action can be "improved" by making it from stainless steel, titanium, or some other super material, but there's just nothing than can be added, subtracted, or altered about it that will be an actual improvement.

[Bostonterrier97]

Horse Manure

The Mauser 98 could use an Adjustable Trigger, It could have an improved lock time, as a Battle Rifle it could have used a Rear Apeture Sight, as a Sporting Rifle it could have used an Integral Scope mount such as what is on the Sako and Ruger Rifles. The Mauser could have used a better Safety..the current safety is awkward to engage.
As a Battle Rifle it could have used a larger trigger guard for cold winters.

The Mauser could have used better Steels..instead of using a soft Nickel Steel Alloy that has been case hardened.

The Mauser could have used a Cock on Close system that would have made it easier to extract a spent shell from a hot and dirty chamber and it would have made it faster to cycle the action.

The Mauser could have used 3 locking lugs instead of 2 on the Bolt..

There are all kinds of things that could have been improved on the Mauser.

[Norwegian]

The Norwegian built sniper-rifle NM149 which is used by our armed forces and police has a M98 bolt action mechanism :D , well improved of course

http://www.msnusers.com/rl3fs1htdchq2h6tgl6o1r6or2/Documents/Pictures%2Fnm149s.jpg

It is also for sale in a civilian version .

[4v50 Gary]

Mauser's most beloved offspring is our own Springfield 1903. After the war, we pay Germany for our patent violations.

The Winchester Model 70 is a descendant from it.

Remington's line evolved from the Enfield P14-7 (first with the unpopular Model 30 and then it's gussied up Model 720). OK, the 721 and 722 was a breakaway from the Enfield line and did incorporate some new features.

BTW, the first "bolt" action that I know of was the little produced Greene Bolt Action of Civil War fame. Can't call Mauser the first.

[cracked butt]

To mister horse manure:

When the mauser 98 was invented, adjustable triggers were a novelty item found on a few target and custom rifles. The mauser trigger was a work of simplicity and strength, and if honed properly is a very fine trigger. The trigger has been copied in one form or other by other manufacturers- a springfield trigger is fairly similar as is a win mod 70 trigger, though adjustable.

Inetgral scope mount- not many scopes were used in 1898:rolleyes: Sako was making much infereior mosin nagants, and as far as I know, Ruger wasn't even in business yet.

Safety- the safety holds the firing pin back, its pretty hard to conceive of a more positive safety, especially over 100 years ago when safeties were usually an afterthought.

Steels- the 98's were made of the best steels available at the time.

Cock on close system- the mausers prior to the 98 all had this feature, it is not an advantage, if a person is too weak to overcome the few pounds of upward pressure needed to open the bolt on a cock-on-open system, he is probably too weak to be holding up the rifle or firing it.

3 locking lugs- would have been nice, but it would be decades before a rifle with 3 locking lugs would be invented.
:cool:


I was in a specialty gun shop this weekend and saw inside a glass case a safari rifle originally built for a wealthy business man in 1954. The rifle was made by a Brittish gunmaker Holland and Holland, it was chambered in .375 H&H. The rifle was broken down, the barreld action removed from the stock and both pieces were held in a velvet lined cherry carrying case. Guess what kind of rifle it was? Hint: it wasn't a Win Model 70, an Enfield, a Remington 700, a Springfield, a Weatherby, or a "much improved" Ruger, it was a rifle built on a magnum Mauser 98 action. It had a standard mauser bolt shroud, safety, bolt, trigger and had flip up rear barrel sights- not much of an 'improvement' on the mauser leaf sight. The asking price: $16,000:eek:

[David4516]

"The Mauser could have used a Cock on Close system"

Ya, it's called the Mauser 95 action. I've tryed both, and like the 98 action better, but the 95 ain't bad...

I don't believe it is possible to make any SIGNIFIGANT improvements to the Mauser action...

[oldfart]

I have a 'sporterized' Model_'93 that I prefer to any of my other rifles for hunting. It has the cock-on-closing system, the positive safety, the archaic 8X57 round, but it still knocks down an elk just as well as the latest brain-fart from CZ, Ruger or Winchester. Aside from a few fancy selling points (and that's all they are) such as helical locking systems or adjustable triggers, it would be hard to tell one of those new_Loudenboomers from a basic '93. Certainly, the elk wouldn't notice the difference!

If Remington or Winchester or Ruger had_to depend on me to keep them afloat, they'd be well advised to carve a few stocks in the shape of oars.

[Gewehr98]

:what:

Please tell me it's with low-pressure cast bullet handloads! '93 Mausers aren't considered the strongest of the two-lug, small-ring clan, and were best left in their original low-pressure chamberings, like 7x57, 7.65x53, and 6.5x55.

[Tamara]

My favorite "Mauser '98" was produced at the Eddystone Arsenal... ;)

[nextjoe]

Tamara,

I'd say your Eddystone is really closer to a '93 or '95 Mauser (no third lug, cock on close) and a step behind a true 98. Still a nice rifle, even though they're intensely ugly :D

Best,
Joe

[Cosmoline]

I'm surprised to hear complaints about the '98's lack of a third locking lug or "poor" steel. I've never heard of any '98 blowing up, and they do have a third lug on the bolt that would kick in if the locking lugs failed. And I certainly know of many '98 actions being used as the basis for very high-powered magnum cartridges.

Yes, you could put a fancy trigger on them. CZ does just that with its modern '98 clones. But then you have a complex mechanism to worry about. The '98 in its original form is absolutely pure. A minimum of moving parts, extremely easy to clean and repair. It takes a few hours to break down your average levergun into all its parts, from tiny screws to tiny springs. Most semis take just as long. The Mauser '98 takes a few minutes at most. This is why it makes such an awesome hunting rifle.

An aperture sight on the receiver would have been nice, but the dictates of the pre-WWI militaries mandated that soldiers be able to fire volleys out to unpteen hundred meters. Anyway you can always add one.

Scope mounts--who needs a scope?

Designers of modern military rifles could learn a lot from the '98.

[Jim K]

Mauser 98 and "modern" war:

Just before the "6 day" war, Israel put a lot of Shekels into buying brand new FALs for their troops, and the Israeli press hyped the new rifles. But when the war began and troops rode or walked behind tanks, the new rifles filled with sand and jammed. Big time panic! Secrecy imposed! Top-level meetings! Solution reached!

Literally under cover of darkness, the FALs were withdrawn, and the front line troops issued rifles that would work in the sand. Being the folks who invented the word (if not the concept) of "hutzpah", the Israeli army reissued the FALs to their reserves to parade around Tel Aviv and told the press they now had enough of the new rifles to equip even the rear echelon troops.

The rifle they sent to the front, that they knew would work in anything? The K.98k.

Jim

[oldfart]

Gewehr98:

Now, sit dowm. Keep you heart medicine nearby and breathe slowly and evenly.

Ok?

No, I shoot Romanian milsurp for fun and Sierra 150s for meat. In the two cases of Romanian and the half-case of Yugoslavian that I've put through it, the headspace hasn't changed at all.

Just after I bought it, I started hearing about how unsafe it was so I got the gauge and began checking it. Each time I cleaned it after shooting, I'd strip the bolt and check the headspace. Now I check it once or twice a year and it still won't close on a no-go.

Shortly after buying it, I met a guy who engraves guns for a living. As it turns out, he was the head of the engineering department at Kimber when they were putting out good stuff. He's also a master gunsmith (though he doesn't work at it anymore) and very possibly one of the most knowledgeable people in the world regarding Mausers (my opinion, but shared by several gunsmiths in the area and around the country.) He told me that the '93_action built in Germany was strong enough to handle anything you could chamber with it.

His opinion, together with that of White Laboratories, is enough for me. If you don't want to use your '93 to its fullest potential, let me know and I'll relieve you of the liability it must be.

[Gewehr98]

Enjoy. Knock yourself out. One only lives once, make every moment exciting.

Think I'll throw away my Kuhnhausen books, starting with the Mauser bolt action series. Ol' Jerry must've been talkin' outta his arse for such gems and photos as this:

The effects of firing modern high pressure cartridges in small ring Mauser actions originally designed and barreled for cartridges in the approx. 37,000 to 40,000 psi range is included as a safety warning for those unfamiliar or in need of reminding. Photographs of sectioned receivers show receiver lug surface setback caused by firing 50,000+ psi cartridges in M93/95 Mauser actions with moderate and softer heat treats.

Then I'll start chucking my Ackley series.

After that I'll petition the barrel makers to stop offering small ring barrels chambered for such lightweights as 7x57, 6.5x55, .257 Roberts, and .300 Savage. They should bring on the full-power barrels for the small-ring Mausers, to include .308 Win, 8x57, 7mm-08, .243, etc.

Then my website, Mauser98.com, should be converted to Mauser93.com, because all those years of Mauser gunsmithing I've done don't mean squat if a single example of a 2-lug small-ring 93 Mauser hasn't experienced locking lug setback from 50K PSI 8x57 rounds. (Not that locking lug setback is the only thing to worry about...)

Think I'll chuck all those 98 Mauser actions in my safe drawers, and start looking for small-ring Spanish and Swedish actions for my next long-range rifles in .308 and .260 Remington.

Kimber should've kept selling those small-ring Swedes in .308's, by gum! The durned ninnies, they shouldn't have been so liability conscious!:scrutiny:

[oldfart]

Gewehr98;

I believe we have agreed to disagree. Let's leave it at that. I've seen this subject beaten to death on too many boards to think either of us will convert the other to his way of thinking.

The '98 is a great rifle. I have one I've_converted to a .308 target
rifle. Unfortunately, with all the accuracy-specific add-ons, it isn't very handy except on a bench or bipod. The '93, on the other hand, just seems to "fit" me better for hunting.

[Mike Irwin]

Since when are sights part of the action?

As for the Pattern 14 Enfield, it was Britain's attempt to replace the Lee-Enfield action with one based on the Mauser.