CA Lead Bullet Ban


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glockman19
December 8, 2007, 10:21 PM
The State Fish & Game Commission has expanded it's ban on the use of lead ammunition in hunting grounds that also are home to California Condors.
Earlier this year, the state Legislature outlawed most lead ammunition in hunting rifles, saying that rare California condors suffer lead poisioning when they eat animal carcuses left behind by hunters. Friday's 3-1 voteby game commissioners goes further, however, and prohibits the use of lead in firearms that are .22 caliber or smaller.
"It's important because it you talk to condor recovery biologists, the #1 threat to condor recovery is lead poisioning," said Kim Delfino, a representative of the group Defenders of Wildlife. With only about 300 California condors left, 17 of the birds statewide were found this year to have lead poisioning.
The New regulations go nto effect July 1, 2008.


What other metal would be good to cast bullets other than lead?
I have a lot of brass, would brass make a good bullet?
How would ballistics change? what would be the weight : mass difference in metals?

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Eric F
December 8, 2007, 10:27 PM
the same thing hapened with lead sinkers around here folks turned to bronze brass soft steal ect.

JCT
December 8, 2007, 10:39 PM
Try Bismuth? That's what most fishing sinkers are now made with. If that didn't work, I'd use brass ( copper and zinc ). Maybe you can find a softer brass alloy.

Chief-7700
December 8, 2007, 10:41 PM
The State Fish & Game Commission has expanded it's ban on the use of lead ammunition in hunting grounds that also are home to California Condors. OK since we have to save the Condors, however I have not seen any maps the indicate the Condor lead free zone. It seems the tree huggers and fern feelers are up to banning .22 lead ammo or could this be another attempt at gun/ammo control.

glockman19
December 8, 2007, 10:54 PM
All lead hunting ammo

AirplaneDoc
December 9, 2007, 02:48 AM
Fortunately I don't live in the fruit and nut state.

And I thought Illinois was bad

NuJudge
December 9, 2007, 07:11 AM
You can apparently cast Zinc very nicely, but I have not tried it and the metallurgy of it I have not studied.

CDD

The Bushmaster
December 9, 2007, 11:42 AM
Bismuth and lead are almost identical in weight and melt points. I believe they are right next to each other on the element periodic table...

Snapping Twig
December 9, 2007, 01:48 PM
Back door gun control, nothing whatsoever to do with the condor.

Remember....bullets pass through, they don't stay inside the animal. This being the case, how are the condors getting the lead? Answer - they're not - it's a ruse.

But remember....it's for the children...

HankB
December 9, 2007, 02:03 PM
Hmmm . . . ban lead bullets . . . and a lot of the alternatives, when used in handguns, could be considered "illegal armor piercing" pistol ammunition . . .

This bodes ill.

RedLion
December 9, 2007, 02:24 PM
Just load your bullets with high explosives
not much lead in those ;)

The Bushmaster
December 9, 2007, 04:31 PM
Being as how I spent 20 years next to the condor reserve I will agree with Snapping Twig. Besides the condors should be extinct. Their food supply is gone and the "goody-two-shoes" have ranchers kill a beef and leave it in the condor reserve so they can eat...They are a very large prehistoric buzzard and rely on large dead animals...Not many of those left...By the way...We pay for those beeves out of our tax dollars...

papajohn
December 9, 2007, 04:37 PM
So if someone were to exterminate the other 300 of these ugly buzzards, the ban could be rescinded, right? :cool:

This whole thing stinks of BS. Buzzards eat Bullets, thinking they're meat? If they're THAT stupid, they SHOULD be extinct! :scrutiny:

Papajohn

The Bushmaster
December 9, 2007, 05:00 PM
Coastal Missouri?? That's a bit of a stretch...

AirplaneDoc
December 9, 2007, 05:38 PM
Hey, the whole eastern side of the state is on the water, and when all the glaciers and ice caps melt, and California falls into the ocean, then Missouri might just be truly costal. Won't have to worry about the Condors then either.:):)

The Bushmaster
December 9, 2007, 05:59 PM
Hummmm...You have a point there after all...On both counts...

Javelin
December 9, 2007, 06:00 PM
CA - "banning weapons one peice at a time"

fastattack
December 9, 2007, 08:25 PM
I've always said that the anti crowd will ban ammo since it is easier than confiscation of your guns. In my mind the connection between condors and lead is suspect at best. Next will be banning lead at our shooting ranges due to lead contamination of our aquifer.

papajohn
December 9, 2007, 11:20 PM
"Coastal Missouri?? That's a bit of a stretch..."

I live a few blocks from the Big Muddy, the dividing line between the People's Republic of Illinausea and Free America. I used to live over there, then moved back here when they passed a CCW law. That will NEVER happen in the PRI.

PJ

The Bushmaster
December 10, 2007, 10:39 AM
Welcome home papajohn...

Kimber1911_06238
December 10, 2007, 10:42 AM
yeah, next they'll just ban all triggers. You can own any gun you want, but if it has a trigger.....YOU'RE A FELON

Oohrah
December 15, 2007, 02:29 AM
Zinc works but is lighter than lead !

BigBlock
December 15, 2007, 11:19 PM
I say we all get together and ban california. ;)

Hook686
December 17, 2007, 02:57 AM
Hmmmm what is the specific law ? Lead bullets to me are cast lead, soft lead, SJSP, JSP, etc but FMJ or even Plated FN strikes me as not specifically lead, for the lead is not exposed.. Unless the Condor chews the bullet, the condor ought not be exposed to lead I'm thinking.

Why is everybody so uptight, steel shot has been around quite a while now.

papajohn
December 17, 2007, 10:33 AM
First they'll ban lead. Steel bullets are Armor-Piercing, already banned in most places. Bismuth is horribly expensive, and they'll probably try to find a way to ban it, as well. This is what they do, they chip away at our freedoms until there's nothing left. NEVER GIVE AN INCH!

PJ

14427H
February 13, 2008, 10:22 AM
I was thinking about this as they have been using "guilty till proven innocent" line on condors and bullets...I know it was mentioned in studies but how much road kill do they find to eat that may be contaminated with this major source of lead? How much lead does the average highway contribute to the ecosystem from the wheel weights?

http://www.leadfreewheels.org/pile.jpg

Some of this anti-hunting findings they propose have as much science behind them as proposing no driving zones and wheel weight inspections.

R.W.Dale
February 13, 2008, 10:33 AM
Being as how I spent 20 years next to the condor reserve I will agree with Snapping Twig. Besides the condors should be extinct. Their food supply is gone and the "goody-two-shoes" have ranchers kill a beef and leave it in the condor reserve so they can eat...They are a very large prehistoric buzzard and rely on large dead animals...Not many of those left...By the way...We pay for those beeves out of our tax dollars...

The Condor is much like the Panda bear in that they would have gone extinct all on their own if it weren't for the intervention of mankind. Why does the lead issue only effect condors? Turkey buzzards seem to have no such problem.

In the words of GM's president Bob Lutz when asked about Global Warming

Total crock of ......

ChristopherG
February 13, 2008, 10:33 AM
The DFG website does not indicate that lead bullets have been banned:

...the DFG and other agencies involved in the California Condor Recovery Project are asking hunters in condor range (parts of the counties of Tulare, Kern, Los Angeles, Ventura, Santa Barbara, San Luis Obispo, Monterey, and San Benito) to remove lead from the area by following a few simple steps:

* Retrieve all killed animals (including coyotes and small game) from the field, or
* Hide carcasses or gut piles by burying them, covering them with brush or rocks, or placing them in an inaccessible area, or
* Remove bullets and surrounding impacted flesh when leaving carcasses or gut piles in the field, or
* Use lead-free ammunition, in which case none of the above is needed.

Here's the site:

http://www.dfg.ca.gov/wildlife/hunting/condor/

SlamFire1
February 13, 2008, 12:17 PM
From what I read, when I followed up within the URL, was that the lead ban is not state wide.

It will be an inconvience.

I am surprised to read that the condors require human placed carcasses to survive. Vultures, big and small, do us a good service by eating decaying dead animals. Now we donít have as much of a problem that India has with dead animals all about, but India has lost 95% of their Vulture population due to industrial chemicals, and it is not a good thing. http://www.indiatogether.org/2006/apr/env-vultures.htm

Trash pickup is a health issue. Vultures do it for free. Be nice to them.

627PCFan
February 13, 2008, 01:33 PM
So being from Md/East coast and not familiar with your prehistoric birds, your supposed to use non-lead bullets and shot, like for Candian Geese, for the condors? And then when you get your 300 Condor limit, you can shoot more lead?

kimberfan
February 16, 2008, 11:53 PM
copper? find old pennies and melt them down and make solid copper bullets.

kimberfan
February 16, 2008, 11:59 PM
copper? find old pennies and melt them down and make solid copper bullets.

scrat
February 17, 2008, 12:19 AM
ok i live in **********. yep.

i cast my own too.


pure lead and wheel weights. The ban for now is just for hunting. Thank god. as i shoot black powder as well. So shooting at the ranges for now is perfectly legal.

jeepmor
February 17, 2008, 03:46 AM
So is this a boon for the Barnes all copper bullets? Drat, just the other day I was considering a 45-70 because I could shoot lead bullets.

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