[45R]

THR members who have used the Otis Tactical Cleaning System on .308 rifles. What do you think of it. Does this system replace the traditional rod brush and jag?

Comments please


TIA

45R

[Sven]

Dude, you read my mind. Lots of good press for this around.

I'm especially curious what competition shooters have to say about this kit, versus the standard methods.

[Skunkabilly]

Sven, have you seen the M14 DMR kits?

This 1/2 lb. cleaning system replaces over 3 lbs. of conventional gear. With the flexible cleaning rod it is only possible to clean correctly, from breech to muzzle. The chamber, shoulder and neck can easily be cleaned. Bore obstructions, mud or snow, can be dislodged out the muzzle end. A stuck empty case or bullet lodged in the neck can be easily knocked out. Specific tools are included to clean the locking lugs, bolt face, carrier key, bolt and slide. All parts are blackened to eliminate glare. Fast and accurate cleaning can be accomplished in minutes.


http://www.otisgun.com/photo/57.jpg

[Malone LaVeigh]

I now know what I want for my birthday...

[Sactown]

Dangit, more stuff for the m1A.

[Sven]

Maybe we'll have to wait for Santa.

[Master Blaster]

I have the otis deluxe cleaning kit, which is like the one pictured, I love mine, easy to take to the range, works well and lets you clean even .22lr revolvers from the Breech/ cylinder end, rather than the muzzle.

I still keep a rigid rod for bore obstructions though.

Mine even came with a .17 caliber cable for airguns!!

it was $40 about 4 years ago. I use it to clean everything.

[SADshooter]

I bought an early DMR kit for my M1A. I've given up on it because I CANNOT get one of their patches through the bore. Still use the fiber-optic borelight...

Now that I've confessed publicly, can someone help me? I think the concept is great, but not when I have to bang a patch back into the action with a conventional cleaning rod after it jams in the chamber. What is the trick to folding the patches?

[Kharn]

I used the AR15 version (fits in the buttstock with the needed tools) until I totally bent the brass crossbar on the handle when I double-patched the bore with larger-than-normal patches and it got stuck in the bore (my previous pack of patches had been undersized, and I needed to run two at once if I wanted to do anything more than polish the carbon). I never used the fancy patches that came with the kit.

Kharn

[bogie]

Personally, if you can clean from the breech using a suitable bore guide, do it the conventional way (one piece rod, and give that aluminum screw-together crap to the loudmouth at your local range...).

[Dave R]

Sounds like we have few THR members who have tried them, and of those, not all have had positive experiences.

I see it as a kinda "better bore snake" . I would be particularly interested in a comparison from anyone who has used both bore snake and Otis.

For example, I use a bore snake to clean my .22lr revolver from the breech end (also to clean chambers). Don't know how much value an Otis would add to that?

[yzguy]

I know it's not what you asked, but for anyone interested, I like the much cheaper version:
Patch Worm
http://20-20.8m.com/images/pworig1.jpg
(http://20-20.8m.com/products.html)

This can also be made from weed wacker line, but I like the correct size slip on barrel things that come with the patch worm.

This does not provide for using a brass brush though, so I still use the old rod for that, but only a couple of passes after soaking in solvent.

[45R]

I have a patchworm...it works great with the .22 but had some problems with the 1911. The little spacer and patches was not tight enough for the bore on my Kimber.

[762x51]

I have the Otis deluxe kit. Works great on my Garand, AK, and pistols.....stuff where cleaning from the breach wouldn't be possible with a rod. Everything else get a Dewey coated rod and jag.

[sm]

I have had one of these kits since they first came out. "Kit and Caboodle" I think was the name...back whenever that was.

I find them quite handy for competition--granted I competed mostly with shotguns and handguns. I have used the Otis kit for Lever action rifles and revolvers, they work really great -especially afield. At the range and never knowing what caliber/platform students/shooters would have-- I have used to dis-lodge stuck cases and squib loads, surprised me too.

If afield this kit is small enough to fit on belt or in a day pack. I have also just taken the pistol cable afield in my back pocket...unlike a rod these things don't get bent.

Patches have never been a problem with me, old pc of T shirt and a knife I'm good to go, whack off a pc of shirt, punch a slit and go.

Holy Grail--NO , Another tool in the toolbox--Yes. Except this one won't get bent, in the daypack, range bag, backpocket, or rolling around in the stuff kept in vehicle.

The bronze brushes are well made, I like the nylon also. The little bottle is handy and easy to refill with whatever "mouse milk" on chooses. I did take and extension and adapt mine...just like having an extension.

I did add pipe cleaners to mine , pipe cleaners and I go way back...old habit. They make a mini toothbrush, find a 'baby size" they fit inside pouch and add this. Little vials handy for extra screw and the like. Just be creative and customize as need with store bought stuff.

Great gifts and also just the pouch itself is a good design for other stuff. Makes a great mini first aid pouch--cut to fit the compartment for ointment, script meds ( a friend keeps insulin in one--padded so won't break).

[Sleeping Dog]

I use the Otis when the cleaning rod won't work from the breech. Like the M1 Garand. Or the Swede M96 Mauser (barrel is too long for my cleaning rod). For rifles where the breech is easily accessible, like AR's, the one-piece rod is less hassle.

Regards.

[Master Blaster]

I used the AR15 version (fits in the buttstock with the needed tools) until I totally bent the brass crossbar on the handle when I double-patched the bore with larger-than-normal patches and it got stuck in the bore (my previous pack of patches had been undersized, and I needed to run two at once if I wanted to do anything more than polish the carbon). I never used the fancy patches that came with the kit..

A polite suggestion Kahrn:

You may want to get some brushes, they are much better than using too many patches to remove carbon and fouling. and yes when I first got the otis kit I stuck a patch in the barrrel of my XM-15, and I had to use a rod and a mallet to get it out.

I know how to judge the size of the knot now so that doesnt happen.

I just use regular patches and cut a couple of slits in them so that I can knot them on the slotted tip.

The OTIS is not perfect but it works well for me.

[Jaeger]

I bought an Otis Tactical kit for my Rem. PSS for a class at Thunder Ranch a few years ago. It worked very well and fits very nicely in a pack. That being said I still prefer to use a Dewey rod when available. It is quicker and a bit easier to use.

I use the Otis regularly for my M1A. I hate cleaning from the muzzle, even with a bore guide. The Otis alleviates that problem. I used all of the patches provided and never had one get stuck. I make my own out of cotten flannel now. I only give my M1A a complete teardown 2 or 3 times a year.

It's a high quality piece of gear and I wouldn't be without mine for my M1A. Especially in the field.

[45R]

So is the biggest problem: Losing the patch in the barrel midway?

[Kharn]

MasterBlaster:
My Otis kit came with both the chamber brush and the .22 barrel brush, I could run the brush, then run a series of single patches and I could still see carbon in the bore. Three to five doubled-up patches would clean the bore better and in less time (at the expense of needing to stick a metal rod down the barrel and tap the patch holder out when it got stuck due to the different patch size).

45R:
The issue wasnt that I lost the patch, it was that the patch got stuck, and with a cable instead of a rod, you cant push it back the other way, you can only pull on the cable (I pulled so hard the handle bent). I ended up sticking a 3/16" piece of drill rod (a steel rod :what: ) down the bore and taping it lightly with a hammer to drive the patch and patch holder out the chamber end (it was stuck in the throat, I was cleaning chamber to muzzle).

Kharn

[natedog]

Is the solvent and lubricant contained in the OTIS Tactical kit OTIS' own brand, or is it something else?

[Mulliga]

Otis' own brand. A do-it-all product like CLP or FP-10 is probably the best thing to use with these kits - just use up the stock bore cleaner, and fill up with cleaner of your choice.

OTIS KIT MINI REVIEW:

I have the Otis Deluxe kit, and it kicks major butt. You can clean your 10/22, your Mosin Nagant, and your 1911 all with the same kit, and all pretty easily. Never lost a patch, but maybe that's because I follow the kit directions to the letter :neener: ;). Never used it to clear a bore obstruction, but I haven't actually ever had a bore obstruction, so I don't think this happens often enough to worry about.

The special patches are a bit expensive, but I usually only use up one or two patches cleaning a gun to "squeaky" clean, as opposed to a bunch of ordinary patches. You can also jury-rig patches from Wally World patches or other pieces of cloth, but I find it's easier just to order the special ones in bulk online. The components are all good quality, made to last you a few years depending on how hard you use them.

I'd rate them as better than a Boresnake, but not by too much (especially if we're talking about the name-brand Hoppes Boresnake and not the knock-offs). Of course, carrying one kit that cleans .22/.30/.45 caliber is better than carrying a bunch of different boresnakes, but YMMV. At the very least, the pouch looks cool on your belt. :)

[natedog]

Mulliga, can you compare the OTIS kit to a one-piece traditional rod, like a Dewey?

[Kodiak AK]

This 1/2 lb. cleaning system replaces over 3 lbs. of conventional gear. With the flexible cleaning rod it is only possible to clean correctly, from breech to muzzle. The chamber, shoulder and neck can easily be cleaned. Bore obstructions, mud or snow, can be dislodged out the muzzle end. A stuck empty case or bullet lodged in the neck can be easily knocked out. Specific tools are included to clean the locking lugs, bolt face, carrier key, bolt and slide. All parts are blackened to eliminate glare. Fast and accurate cleaning can be accomplished in minutes.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I know first hand this is a lie . I loved my Otis kit . I thought it was the bees knees for cleaning, but it will not remove a stuck case .

[MrMurphy]

For field cleaning I have the all-in-one kit and it works well. I've literally cleaned a .22 rifle, a .45 pistol, .45-70 rifle, AK, AR and .30-30 all in one session with one kit. It does WORK.

I use a Boresnake for my 12ga however since the shotgun part of the kit can be hard to use.

[Mulliga]

Honestly, if you have already have a nice rod like a Dewey and good brushes, the Otis kit won't be any "better." The build quality of the rod will be equal or better to the Otis kit, and, as Kodiak said, the Otis kit just doesn't do all the things a conventional rod/brush/jag set will.

The main benefits of the Otis are compactness and the ability to clean from the breech in something like a Garand. I like mine, but they do have their limitations.

[sm]

I see this topic is still being discussed.

I was discussing this with a older fellow I was helping with cleaning his guns.

I tend to agree with Schumann. I tend to believe too much fuss is about "cleaning" especially the bore. Actions, chambers and extraction make more sense to me. Folks seem to clean bores...to a point of being anal, and not pay attention to the other stuff. Improper technique and tools and more harm is done.

Personally - the only place I see for a coated rod is for .22 cal. The thin rods , even the one- pc are going to flex, and damage to throat.

In a former business I used to make a lapping tool, take a steel rod and use shrink wrap to "coat it" and apply whatever grit I needed for task. These held for a "little bit"... just use and simple solvents would break it down.

I prefer the un-coated steel ,with bore guide ,or muzzle guard if going from muzzle. One pass, one direction , wipe rod.

Pull throughs: Ox- Yoke makes the " Zip- Kit" , various British versions exist, and you Crufflers know these old guns had pull systems as well. Heck I used a pc of rawhide before I got the Otis kit.

I rarely clean a bore like I said. Especially in a pistol that shoots Jacketed bullets. Lead - that is different, Lewis Lead Remover and such are great.

Exposure to rain, snow, mud...that is different. Heat and Humidity , What - a patch of G96 , RIG No 2oil , BF CLP ...is not going to be enough?
RIG grease alone, come back and taken out the fouling I was concerned about, dry patch a still a bit is left to protect.

Here is the trick on the Otis kit. Buy the micro kit with / for .177 cal, get the adapter and "T" handle, and throw the 2 patch savers for shotguns in with it.
You can "clean" from .22 cal handguns to 12 ga shotguns with only this much stuff and some old cotton /flannel for patches. Pipe Cleaners are more important to my cleaning , well the long wooden Q tips are getting to where they rank up there with them :)

Ironic - I was doing patches the "Otis way" ....back as kid with the rawhide,or a boot lace,hjeck even string and pc of straw for a muzzle guard....before Otis ever became a business. It was what the old timers taught us kids.

This kit being as it is coated is fine for .22 rimfire. What I use , like the other day when a New Marlin 60 DL needed to have the factory stuff ( lube) removed and all. I treat bores with RIG. I did this one the same , the coating protects that small diameter. That new rifle has had only 4 passes made thru it so far - Period. Cable wiped after each pass, and that was needed to clean and treat this bore. It will only have the chamber Q tipped - if need from now on. If it gets wet...a patch of RIG no 2 Oil , G96 , BF CLP... will displace moisture .


Now this fellow had not cleaned the bore in the bolt gun in a long, long time, it took that long for accuracy to be affected by the copper fouling. Revolvers
, he shoots lead, his 1911 shoots lead, he has another Semi , a BHP and he shoots jacketed out it.

OTIS, and the Zip-Kit will knock out a stuck case or hull. I have used other rods of various materials , with a muzzle guard if need. A straw and a Stiff metal rod , gun bbl in a vise witll remove a stuck bullet. Granted sticking the bbl in the freezer and using a rod made of Derlin is my preference to remedy this problem.

I got soaked the other day as did my CCW. I took it apart wiped it with RIG No 2 oil and using a long wooden Qtip pushed a patch thru my bbl.

Like CRSam and others have said - no matter what you use, use it carefully and correctly with caution. And do you really need to be spending time on the bore - or is that time better spent inspecting, and making sure the action, extraction and chamber is in good shape?

Yeah...out of habit,... the old fella grinned when I pulled the last light oiled patch with a length of rawhide. He does the same thing..."How I took care of my Model 94 back when I got paid to shoot deer back in the old days" ;)

Of course we used the Ox-Yoke "Best Dam Gun Oil" on that patch. His young Grandaughter shoots that Model 10 , she can get by "cursing" when she mentions the gun oil and the solvent of same name - by their name.
;)

[Remander]

slightly off topic:

I saw a table full of Otis kits at a gun show, and I was really interested in them, but the salesman was such an obnoxious jerk that I kept going.

I watched him ask three potential customers in row, "Sir, what do you use to clean your rifles?" Whatever they said, he would proceed to tell them how sorry that product was and essentially tell the potential customer that he was an idiot to use it. All three ended up in raised voice debates with him.

I don't know how the heck he though that was going to persuade someone make a purchase with those tactics. What a maroon!

[Steve Smith]

Sven, as far as competitors are concerned, I don't know of anyone that uses an Otis kit. That's not to say that it's "bad" but it just isn't used. It certainly doesn't seem right, you know? Your Ray-Vin scope stand is built to house an extra cleaning rod, so that is probably the best solution to having one with you. FWIW, I have never had to clean a rifle on the line, but having a rod to knock bullets out of barrels is a nice thing.

[tombo]

I am thinking about getting an Otis Tactical cleaning kit. Can you give a decent cleaning to a Ruger 10/22 and a 22/45 .22 pistol using an Otis without breaking the firearms down? I have both and they are a pain to take apart.

[Matt-man]

Tombo: The .177 caliber rod that comes with the Tactical kit can be used to clean your 10/22 and 22/45. The standard rod is too large to fit through the ejection port when a brush or patch tip is installed.

The only downside is that the .177 cal rod won't take a bore brush, but there are a lot of people (myself included) who clean .22s with just patches.

Edit: If you're just looking to clean 22 and 17 caliber rimfires, the "Airgun" kit is on clearance at otisgun.com (look in "Blowout Specials") for $1. Yes, that's one dollar. Shipping is $5, so buy five of them and give them to your friends. :)

[MashBill]

It's great for field use, but at home I still use my Dewey rod. I'm glad I bought it.

[tombo]

Thanks for the information concerning the Otis and the 10/22 and the 22/45. I find them both difficult to take apart and put back together again. The 1st time I took apart the 22/45 I had to put it in a bag and take it to a gunsmith to show me how to put it back together. Now THAT was embarrassing!

[NEtracker]

I have the tactical Otis kit and have used it for the past 3 yrs on rifles & pistols, 30-06, 8mm, .22LR, 9mm. .45ACP. .357 mag, plus other cals.
It does the job, and is easy to take to the range.

RE: the 10/22 and others like it, using the smaller rifle cable, I use the Otis mini brushes which attach to that. Those fit fine in the 10/22 & other .22's.
Unfortunately, those brushes are not in the Tactical kit, but the rod is.
You can order the "mini" brushes from Otis, or find a dealer that stocks.