[shaunx]

I need assistance removing a missfire, I have never had an issue with a miss fire in 5 years with this rifle, I can not seem to get the round removed,
should I

1) remove the nipple and add extra powder

2) use a bore screw

3) remove the barrel

4) go with an Inline instead of Cap and Ball???

[bigbadgun]

you can try this http://possibleshop.com/unloader.htm
but do not put more powder behind the ball.
or use a bore screw.

[scrat]

wow that looks like something everyone should have

[arcticap]

I always remove the nipple and dribble some powder into the flash channel & under the nipple.
First I make sure that it's necessary by using a nipple pick and clearing out the nipple hole and trying out another cap or two.
Using the P or fffg powder granulation under the nipple allows more to get in.
I've never had to pull a ball, even if it was loaded dry without powder.
As long as you're at a safe shooting location, why not place a little more powder under the nipple?
The CO2 dischargers are said to work great, but they can be reserved for when you really don't want to or can't actually shoot it out, at home or in the field at a hunting location, too close to houses or neighbors, too late at night etc...

[sundance44s]

I bought one of the co2 gismos last year ...the wife is bad for forgetting the powder goes in first ! ..hahaha .. sure makes my life easyer .

[Pancho]

shaunx, You'll get that nasty ball out and you don't have to go to inlines just convert your gun to musket caps. It costs about $10 and the musket caps are easier to handle and a lot hotter.

[Pancho]

bigbadgun, I'm curious, why did you advise against removing the nipple and adding a little powder?

[4v50 Gary]

I generally use the vent pick to ensure the nipple is clear. Then I dribble some 4f down the nipple, recap and squeeze off. Now, if it's really bad, I pour water down the nipple, remove it, add more water to saturate the powder. Then I use the stuck ball remover and remove the ball. Flush the barrel of the wet powder, dry it and you should be good to go.

C02 is easier though. :)

[bigbadgun]

If the ball has moved a little on the original fire there is a posiblility of building up to much gases and then you could damage the barrel. Thats what I was told when I was younger.

[Pancho]

bigbadgun, You've got a point there.

[nicholst55]

Any time a ML long gun mnisfires you should first make certain that the ball/bullet has not been partially driven up into the bore. All that's required is to reseat it with your ramrod.

I have a Lyman GPR that has a bad habit of misfiring when it's feeling fussy. I unscrew the nipple and dribble some 4F into the flash channel, install the nipple and try a new cap. It fires every time, then.

I have converted all of my percussion rifles to use musket caps. As was stated above, they're much easier to handle (especially with gloves) and much hotter than standard #11 caps.

[dwave]

+1 on the musket caps. I just converted my frontier rifle to them and they are way better to use than #11's. Word of advice, you might have to change you loads for the musket caps. I had to because my gun went wildly inaccurate until I got a new load worked out.

[JCT]

What powder is already loaded in your rifle? I bet it's a substitute... Funny how they're "less dangerous" due to higher ignition temps, but then they commonly put you in these situations where you have to deal with a loaded gun and try to remove the load...
Just remover the nipple and put in some BP or anything fresh and dry. If the caps aren't making it go, I'd even try a piece of Visco fuse if you have any. It's hot continuous burn would be sure to ignite the powder.
Pyrodex and most substitutes are well know for unreliable ignition. I can say that with BP, I've never had a misfire, but with Pyrodex, even 777, it was almost a sure things when I used them in C&B revolvers.

[Macmac]

IF the gun was loaded with a projectile and NO powder, pull the nipple and add apx 10 grains of the finest powder you have on hand. Go some place safe then and seat the projectile, to fire it..

Aim close so you can tell if it came out.. If it does and it should then there is no more issue.

If it didn't repeat and add 15 grains, RE-SEAT the projectile and shoot it out.

Never add water behind any projectile ever!

If you load in a dirty bore, or use too big a patch and the whole thing gobs up halfway down the bore get a rod made of brass, and with a wood block like a hunk of 2x4 drive the ball down on top of the charge.

Then fire it as normal.

"IF" for some fool reason you are forced to deal with a watered down charge behind a ball then you have to add dry powder and seat the charge.. Fire it and do that again untill the ball comes out... Always RE-SEAT any ball that any charge was fired and the ball didn't pop out.

If that won't work you will have hell to pay... The screw worm will swell a ball tighter than it was..

When that is the only way short of pulling off the breech plug try rubbing alcohol, which makes a soap like slip in burnt black powder.

I have no idea why people will water a charge? People bring me these all wet a lot and it just pisses me off. I have to get things as dry as I can, add poder to get things drier, and if I get lucky pop the ball out the first time.

Don't do it!

When I say pop out 10 grains of FFFFG can kill someone, so always aim in a safe place, and AT NOTHING VERY HARD.

A ball with a 10 grain charge might bounch off a soft pine board and come right back at you!

[hildo]

Macmac,
I guess you are referring to 4v50 Gary with his option of watering the charge.
My guess is that he is saying when you eventually choose to pull the ball you want to make sure, for obvious safety reasons, there will not be any ignition during that operation.
Wet powder will not ignite.

Hildo

[mykeal]

I have no idea why people will water a charge? People bring me these all wet a lot and it just pisses me off.

Macmac,

Welcome to the forum.

Having said that, we try to be neighborly here, and if we don't agree with a member's ideas, we try to understand why they are saying it before we attack it.

Using a ball puller is not always a bad idea; it often works when other ideas don't. True, sometimes it doesn't, but sometimes it does - I've done it successfully a number of times.

It simply makes sense to me that if I'm going to have to pull a ball with a screw that the charge be made fully safe. Water is the best way of doing that.

Just my opinion. You don't have to agree with it, but please respect it.

I like the idea of using alcohol. It's an accelerant, but should actually render the powder inert to all but direct flame. I'm not so sure that it makes the powder slippery, but I'll try it the next time I'm faced with the problem.

I would appreciate knowing why you say not to use water. What effect does the water have?

By the way, it's my experience that the screw does not swell the ball; it removes material as it screws into the lead. The ductility and density of the lead will always give way to the screw threads before pushing adjacent material outward. Failure to get a ball out with a worm screw is usually due to failing to fully insert the screw before pulling it out.

[sundance44s]

I have had to pour a little water down the barrel before pulling a patched ball with a puller ..I would have pulled the puller screw clean out of the soft lead ball had I not used the water to soften the patch . ( I have been there and done that ) Not so likely to happen on the first round ...but 10 shots down the road things get a little sticky .

[Macmac]

First of all I don't know anyone here, and so my intent is not to attack or insult anyone here.

I have been shooting flinters since 1972, and so have made a lot of errors.

In this time I have become fairly good at finding better ways of dealing with problems.

To me the biggest problem of all, is having loaded a patched ball with no powder.

The next is loading a ball that refuses to go down all the way to be placed on top of the powder charge, which can bulge a barrel if fired in that condition.

I made tools to deal with a stuck ball, that refuses to go down on top of a charge, in the form of a long brass rod, so it can not spark. I hit that with a hard wood maul, but in a pinch a 2 foot long hunk of common 2x4 will do it.

Usually once a stuck ball moved, one may stop beating on the brass rod and it is a good idea to STOP. ( Not STOPPING can lead to a firing condition from compression.) Then you simply use the brass rod as you would a regular wood rod, and seat the ball patch combination. Then you can fire it out.

Regular rubbing alcohol also contains water, but the alcohol makes a soapy feeling more than water alone. IF it must be a ball has to be pulled.

I tend to have my shooting tools on hand any time I shoot. I bring the tools to events, where they get used more than when I shoot alone, but not on my own guns.

Others bring me their guns with all the problems any of you can dream up and then some.

Once I re-forged a broken "V" main spring in a camp fire with a stump and 2 hammers. I drove a normal straight claw hammer into the stump with another hammer to create a anvil. I heated the broken spring to a good red hot in a camp fire, in day light, and holding with short tongs forged the broken end out longer with the other hammer.

I re-heat treated that spring with the magnet method after filing the spring to shape, and re-tempered that spring to be a spring after it was glass hard.


When it comes to a soaked powder charge when someone brings me the gun, I just wish they hadn't done so, because it makes what I do harder to do.

I believe the ball should be shot out 99.9% of the time.

I don't care one bit for ball pullers. I have used them, I own several of them, but I still don't like them.

These can drill a hole right thru a ball, and strip the ball. They can scar a bore. They can snap off in the ball, while the ball is still in the bore, and in that case the breech plug HAS to be pulled, and the ball has to be driven out to the breech, and you can make a real mess of the bore then.They can strip out a the socket end in a ram rod too.

To me a ball puller, while I have used them is a last ditch method, when everything else fails.

Even when someone waters the charge I get it dry and fire the ball out. That is a heck of alot more work than if the charge simply wasn't watered down.

SO to sum things up. If you rammed a ball with no charge remove the vent/nipple and add apx 10 grains of FFFFg, re-install the vent/nipple and fire the gun.. As I said in a safe direction where the ball isn't going to hit anything that will bounch it back in your face.

In the case of a stuck ball have a brass ram rod on hand and pound it past the sticky point, then ram as normal, to fire.

All this rammer need is a cup to bear on a ball, and no other ridges like a normal rammer has, because you don't want any jag like ridges to catch on a mis-alined patch.

Once more I don't mean to seem as if I am picking on anyone, and am sorry that is how I am being seen. mac

[sundance44s]

Macman don`t worrie too much about insulting anyone here , there is always more than one way to skin a cat ...I like to read about them all ..what works well for one might not be feasible for another . Since the invention of the Co2 ball puller ..I haven`t had to remove a breech plug ..good invention ..doesn`t exactally look right with all my primitive stuff ..but I keep it hid , and have used it to make a modern day mountain man smile more than once ...anything to keep everyone shooting and haveing fun .

[Pancho]

don't worry Mac this forum is like deer camp good natured arguments. We don't get picky about your spelling or your looks.

[Macmac]

Thanks guys.. I have never used a Co2 tool, and never tried one.. I have never held a in-line either... I tried pyrodex when the inventer was still alive, and didn't like it in my flinters one bit..

I like fast ignition, and I don't find bp all that messey in general. At this point most of my tools appear as if they are new but from another time..

One thing I like to use cleaning is jute from a ball of twine, wrapped in a worm. I will air dry that and add it to my tinder nests.. And I can always re- cord it as string if I want too.

[arcticap]

I think that rechecking a rammed PRB after a misfire is a great idea worth practicing. Sadly, I've never even checked to see if a PRB had moved off of the powder charge afterward. So now I'm wondering just how often a tightly patched RB will move off of the power charge after having an #11 cap misfire and usually by how much?
I've never detected a ringed barrel as a result, but I usually shoot pretty light powder loads anyway.
So how often and how much do the tightly patched round balls generally move off from the powder charge?
One inch, 1/4 inch, 1% of the time, 5% of the time?
I would imagine that magnum caps would potentially cause more movement than a standard cap, and a tightly patched ball would move less than a non-tightly patched ball, and a heavier ball might have even less movement than a lighter ball if there was going to be any movement at all.
But what's the frequency and usual degree of ball movement in real terms?:)

[Macmac]

Good question, and I have no idea. My thinking on it a little says to me A charged that doesn't fire and it other wise ok, and a cap fires, byt the charge does not. Then no movement should have happened.

That is just me though.. I really don't know.

[scrat]

Mac mac thats some pretty good reading. i would love to see some of the tools you have made up and see more on how you use them to remove stuck bullets.

[Macmac]

scrat. maybe one of these days I can get pics up but I am computer STUPID. I do have a pics on Flicker which once was yahoo albums.. Not too much in the way of tools which i thought most folks would find boring.

The brass rod is a brass rod.... it has a little cup on one end and the only other thing is it is about 5 inches longer than any bp gun I have.. It looks like any other round stock. This on is 5/16" which just squeeks into my .40 cal long rifle.

The TC worms with the delicate little wires... well the little patch jags they are break off in my hands after a few uses..

Rather than toss em in the trash I use a common hack saw and cut a slice across the face and solder in a bit of copper sheet to make a breech face scraper.

You can use the same broken worm to make a better one.. Place about 3 hack saw blades in one frame at one time and cut one of these worms which is broken to fit a tool steel wire. Peen the cut to trap the wire.

With a plumbers torch heat the wire and bend it up like a fork. Oh it is a good idea to make the ends real pointy before you do much of anything.

Then mount a cabin spike or something lesser than bore size in a vise and heat the forks hot and bend the prongs clockwise. A little shaping with a file and you have it. These don't need to be very hard to grab a patch.

I have a screw driver I made with from a unused trigger plate. The plate is a long narrow rectangle for a Trade Gun. It has a slot in it as being the part it is..

Heat on end cherry hot and beat the tar outta of it til it widens some and looks like a screw driver.. Then go give her wife 50 bucks and tell he to get something nice..

No sooner is she gone and you fly around to open windows and cut off a hunk of deer antler. You clamp that steel screw driver in a vise and heat the smaller end red hot, and drive the deer antler hunk down over it.

Man now the whole place stinks but don't worry. Yer bride ain't coming home all that fast...

Quick like re heat the small end and grab the antler from the vise and giver er a few wacks to widen that end but not as much.

File that to shape, file the other end to shape and drill a 1/8th" hoke dead center in the antler to drive in a brass pin from brazing rod..

Not exactly rocket science.

No go run the fans out the windows, take a shower, swipe one of yer brides misty goo bottles and mist aroung the house... And when she comes home to smell that you won't have to explain the deer antler stink.

Probably if "SHE" is like my wife you will still have to explain the perfume smell, and I don't yet have any answer for that one.

What tools are you talking about"? Flinters use the most basic tools to clean them with.