[twinhairdryers]

I have 3 1911s. A government model series 80, a Rock Island Arms, and a Kimber pro. All 3 of these things will not reliably feed hollowpoint ammo. I've tried 4 different types of ammo and not even the Colt will chamber them. All of them also fail to feed in the same way, with the head of the hollow point jammed up at an angle into the top of the chamber, so the round is canted at about a 15degree angle upward so that the chamber does not lock closed. I have tried 16lb wolf springs, and nothing seems to work.

How do you get a 1911 to feed hollowpoint rounds??????? I'm stumped. They all feed 230grain ball without a hitch.

If the answer is, buy another model, please specify a model that you have had good luck with.

[TimboKhan]

Three words, my friend: Polish the feedramp.

Nine times out of ten, if it's not feeding HP bullets, the feed ramp needs to be polished.

I am a little surprised that the Kimber won't feed them, less so with the Colt and the RIA. I would point out that the military 1911 was not designed to fire HP, as HP weren't even in existence at the time, so this isn't exactly an uncommon problem.

[Hunter0924]

What magazines are you using? I have had no trouble with any of my Colts, my A-O, and a Kimber feeding hollow points?
The majority of feeding problems from an auto loader stem from magazines.

[twinhairdryers]

A mix of chip mccormic and older colt mags. Funny thing is, I have about 22 of them and the will all misfeed JHPs in any one of the 1911s in this short list.

I guess I could roll the dice and try a Wilson combat, but it really seems unlikely given 3 guns, 2 different types of mags, and 22 mags show the same exact feeding issues.

[Hunter0924]

Magazine spring weakness and or follower damage could attribute to the trouble.
What you are experiencing is a 3 point jam that can be caused by the slide outrunning the magazine.
I have a 1918 Colt 1911 that feeds JHP and LSWC as flawless as my Gold Cup Trophy. The A-O is a basic 1911A1 and also feeds perfect.
1911Tuner has demonstrated many times older Colt and Remington Rand 1911A1s feeding JHP without trouble.
I would advise against polishing the feed ramp. If the angle is changed or the ledge between the barrel throat and feed ramp is lessened feeding will become a problem.
Kimber generally has a tighter chamber and has has spec issues in the past that prevented reliable feeding.
How old are your magazines? The Colt magazines you have, do they have the dimpled follower?

[jfdavis58]

I have a Springfield Armory Champion, SS from their loaded line. I've yet to find any ammo it dislikes.

It's almost spooky!

So far it's diet has included SWC lead from 155 grains to 225, JHPs in 185 and 230 grain offerings and 230 grain LRN and FMJ. Reloads and Factory; all reloads built to make IPSC major factor+10.

It was a little tight coming out of the box and would sometimes stutter going into battery fully when first loaded--don't ride the slide! But all that faded as more rounds were fired.

It was a random buy, local merchant; mainly because of size, but I liked both the look and feel at first sight/touch. Basically I'm saying I didn't do anything special: bought it, shot it, carry it. Oh, I've got 25 years shooting 1911 variants.

As for what you've got: pick one gun, find a competent '1911' gunsmith, pick one load and work-out the kinks. The 1911 can present a multitude of problems, forum guessing and user-smithing will most likely do more harm than good.

[Hunter0924]

I disagree that "forum guessing" will most likely do more harm than good.
My friend 1911Tuner has fixed many a pistol through the written word.

[1911 guy]

I take extra fine scotchbrite to all my carry guns (all of which are 5" 1911s') and hit these two spots:

Feed ramp. There are often tool marks that create drag on the round going up to the chamber. the 1911 design isn't exactly subtle about hammering a round into battery, JHP's don't help matters.

Breech face. There are also often slight burrs around the firing pin hole that interfere with the case sliding up it and under the extractor. Not overly likely with yours since it's feeding the ball alright, but it can't hurt to fluff and buff a bit.

Remember, you're not grinding or recontouring anything, just smoothing it out. Leave the dremel tool in the drawer.

[Old Fuff]

Guys...

How do you explain an unaltered USGI pistol that's unpolished, yet will feed anything, including hand-fed empty cases? :scrutiny: ;)

[Walkalong]

How do you explain an unaltered USGI pistol that's unpolished, yet will feed anything, including hand-fed empty cases?

Proper placement and angle of the ramp. Proper timing. :evil:

Lets face it. One built right will run with most any ammo. problem is, everyone and their brother is building them.

[nicholst55]

Many years ago when I had the keys to the arms room and all the free ammo I could shoot, I used to routinely shoot SWC and JHP bullets through a box-stock M1911A1 that belonged to Uncle. It fed everything and anything that I could stick into the magazine - lead SWC bullets (even ones intended for the .45 Colt), short, stubby JHPs, etc. Not from unaltered GI magazines, but still...

I sure wish they would have let me keep that gun. I would have happily paid the WWII price for it! Alas, I had to leave it there when I left the unit.

My point is that it shouldn't be that difficult to make a recently produced 1911 feed most anything. If you're not confident of your own abilities to do this, talk to a GOOD gunsmith that you trust not to rip you off. It shouldn't cost that much to get the problem resolved.

[Kimber1911_06238]

I took it out fo the box and loaded hollowpoints into the magazine.

[1911 guy]

You're just yanking our chains, Old Fuff!

I've got a few pistols that will feed anything and everything, including empties from the magazine. The problem, which you know and Walkalong stated, is changes from the original design. We're just chasing our tails trying to sort out manufacturer sloppiness.

[DogBonz]

Lets face it. One built right will run with most any ammo. problem is, everyone and their brother is building them.

This is the truth that no one wants to face.

My WWII vintage Colt 1911a1 feeds HP's with no problems. It really likes the remi 185's (non +p). It has digested tons of HP's with out burping up.


My Para P14 would digest anything. That thing was a garbage can. Just toss ammo in and watch it disappear. It was not a pretty gun, but it was a hungry gun. Same with my Kimber Raptor. No feeding problems.

The only 1911 that gave me trouble was a Colt Gold cup that would basically only feed 200gr semi wadcutters. It was quickly renamed the "Brown Cup" because it was such a POS.

[Walkalong]

Oh Yea.

Quality control, for most everyone it seems, has changed from, "check it before it leaves the factory" to "fix it if they send it back".

[kentucky_smith]

Guys...

How do you explain an unaltered USGI pistol that's unpolished, yet will feed anything, including hand-fed empty cases?

GI mags with the bump. My Sistema would feed anything with the original mag, but not any other kinds.

[Old Fuff]

You guys are a bunch of party-poopers... :what:

You should know better they to go around telling folks that polishing this or that isn't really the answer, and suggesting that current pistols aren't exactly made like they used to be. Even worse you are saying that the old stuff actually worked without having to be worked over or tweeked.

You stop this right now... !! :rolleyes: :uhoh:

[1911 guy]

I promise to stop raining on Old Fuffs' parade.
I promise to stop raining on Old Fuffs' parade.
I promise to stop raining on Old Fuffs' parade.
I promise to stop raining on Old Fuffs' parade.
I promise to stop raining on Old Fuffs' parade.
I promise to stop raining on Old Fuffs' parade.
I promise to stop raining on Old Fuffs' parade.
...

:D

[308win]

I guess I got lucky; my Colt 1991A1 will feed commercial and hand loaded ball, 185gr hollow points, 200gr lead SWC from the factory 7rd magazine, Chip McCormick 8rd magazines, and Wilson Combat 8rd magazines (the ones I own anyway). I have never had a failure to feed from any of these magazines. It doesn't balk or hangup and I have not polished, smoothed, or otherwise assaulted the feed ramp, chamber, magazine lips, etc.

[mnw42]

My 70 series Gold Cup will feed damn near every thing. Really any 1911 should. A really amazing thing is to see a mid-range gun feed .38 special wad cutters!

[Old Fuff]

My pennance

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I promise to stop raining on Old Fuffs' parade.
I promise to stop raining on Old Fuffs' parade.
I promise to stop raining on Old Fuffs' parade.
I promise to stop raining on Old Fuffs' parade.
I promise to stop raining on Old Fuffs' parade.
I promise to stop raining on Old Fuffs' parade.
I promise to stop raining on Old Fuffs' parade.
...

There! Now don't you feel better??? :D

[1911Tuner]

Before you consider polishing the feed ramp...take the Dremel out onto the interstate and let a few semis run over it.

Yes. Fuff is blowin' smoke up your pantlegs. It's what he lives for...

:D

The very first suspect, and the usual culprit in any failure to feed/return to battery problem is the magazine. What kind are you using?

Next in line is the extractor tension. Sometimes excessive tension will allow ball to feed, and choke on decent-quality hollowpoints.

Next is the ammo itself. Are your hollowpoints from a batch of gunshow reloads?

The next thing to check is for a 3-Point Jam. Top off a proper magazine...which you may or may not have at this point...and chamber the top round from slidelock by tripping the slidestop. Do you hear/feel a pronounced "Ka-Chunk" as the slide chambers the round...or is it fairly smooth?

That your magazines may be new...or stylish/expensive...or came highly recommended by the gun shop commando is no guarantee that they're good.

Details are important. A failure to feed means that no part of the cartridge gets into the chamber. If the bullet nose gets in...even just a little...that's a failure to go to/return to battery. The two are often related, but they're not the same.

What point in the magazine does the stoppage most often occur? Is it always the same place...or at random? Top round or last round? Most signifigant...is it always with the same magazine, or magazines?

FWIW...I'm glad that some of you guys stepped up and related the stories of all you old, unaltered USGI pistols that feed SWCs and hollowpoints. It helps me to lay waste to the myth that the 1911 is only reliable with hardball unless extensively reworked/tweaked/tuned/ or prayed over. I have several that date from 1912 to 1945...including some early teens and 20s commercial Colts that can't tell the difference. Hardball...SWC...Hollowpoint...All the same to the guns. They've never been ramped/polished, and they've never had any secret gunsmith JuJu performed on'em...and they do it from the old USGI "Hardball" magazines. I have several witnesses to the fact, and stand ready and willing to demonstrate to anyone who can make the trip.

[Old Fuff]

Yes. Fuff is blowin' smoke up your pantlegs. It's what he lives for...

Me??? You mean me? Never!! :evil:

[Tarvis]

Could be a bad magazine, possibly the ammo but this has already been stated. When ever I have a problem, this is my order of operations for solving it:
1. Fix/change the magazine
2. Figure out what part of the handload is causing the problem (for factory ammo, try a different kind)
3. Figure out what I changed to cause gun to malfunction
4a. Swear and start over at #1
4b. (2nd time through) give it a day and go through 1-3 again
4c. (ditch effort) Modify Gun
5. Gunsmith

If it feeds everything else great/fine, it's probably not the gun's fault. FWIW I like Chip McCormick 8 rounders in my 1991a1 Commander; had no problems so far.

[jonboynumba1]

odds are it aint gonna be the same issue with all 3 but polishing up the feedramp and throat is a good start to any 1911 you buy. As is often properly camphering polishing and tuning the extractor and buying some wilson mags. Yes a good gun properly tuned should feed from any quallity 1911 mag in theory. In reallity pros test the best mags they can buy with each weapon be it a 1911 or an AR-15 and keep them for that firearm. Buy beg or borrow at LEAST ONE wilson mag just so you have a decent mag of known quallity to test and diagnose with.

Sometimes the top of the chamber area to the hood can have rough spots as well (seen it on a RIA before...polishing it solved his problem) I'm surprised on the kimber. If it's the external extractor version send it back and let them worry about it...you probably got a bad one. They'll fix it. Best thing is let somebody that knows what they are doing (not kinda knows how to work on em) have all three for a few days and for a nominal charge I'd bet all 3 come back slicked up and feeding fine...assuming you have a decent smith in your area. Shady-tree mechanic type gunsmiths ruin more 1911's than probably any other type of pistol. It's not rocket science but you need to know what you are doing.

If it's not an ammo mag or polishing issue 98% of the time it's going to be extractor related. And you need somebody decent to address that...it's just easier that way.

[1911Tuner]

Shady-tree mechanic type gunsmiths ruin more 1911's than probably any other type of pistol.

Yep. And they do it like this:

polishing up the feedramp and throat

Whenever somebody calls me to ask for help with a misfeeding 1911-pattern pistol...and the first thing they tell me is that they did a "Ramp and Throat Job" on it...I go

:banghead: :banghead:

[huduguru]

"Guys...

How do you explain an unaltered USGI pistol that's unpolished, yet will feed anything, including hand-fed empty cases?"


"You guys are a bunch of party-poopers...

You should know better they to go around telling folks that polishing this or that isn't really the answer, and suggesting that current pistols aren't exactly made like they used to be. Even worse you are saying that the old stuff actually worked without having to be worked over or tweeked.

You stop this right now... !! "


Old Fuff is right...

It is made to save your butt and to proper specs.I would love to have a G.I. contract 1911a1 in good condition. To bad the Springfields, Kimbers etc. are nothing but replicas/conversation pieces that disgrace Mr. Brownings masterpiece. Get a Colt, you might have better luck(or a Glock)

[pbearperry]

My Colt series 80 fed everything but 180 gr HP's.I buffed the feed ramp with my Dremel tool and a buffing wheel and now it feeds everything.Maybe I was just lucky?

[distra]

I have 2 S&W 1911's one full size, one commander and 3" Springfield micro that all feed Hornady 230gr JHP, Winchester JHP and hand loads without any trouble. My mags are Chip McCormick and ACT-MAG. I keep the mags clean and pistols clean, but nothing special. I use the full size for shooting pins all summer, no problems. I have had problems with Wilson mags feeding ball ammo and I tend to not use the 2 I have. ANY 1911 mag can/will have issues if it is too dirty, but ball ammo (for which the pistol was designed) is a bit more forgiving than HP when comes to feeding. I would start with a nice thorough cleaning of the pistol and mags before I'd start "polishing" anything. If you can't get them running then take them to your friendly neighborhood 'smith.

[BlindJustice]

S & W 1911 5" Bbl. Len. Stainless Steel w/fixed sights
purchased October 2007. I also bought 5 Wilson Combat
stainless steel, ETM magazines.

I have shot CCI Blazer 200 gr. JHP (40), Remington
185 gr JHP (50) and Leadhead 200 gr. SWC (70)
with only one FTF - I think I didn't seat a SWC all the
way into the magazine for the top round. It hasn't
happened since.

You might try one new WC magazine and try it in
all three of your 1911s.

[motorheadjohn]

My Kimber Custom TLE II feeds Hornaday XTP and Remington Golden Sabre with no problems. I used 8-rd KimPro TacMags with it.

[1911Tuner]

You guys are a bunch of party-poopers...

Yes...and we've made ourselves quite unpopular in some circles for stating the obvious. To wit: If the gun is built to spec, it'll work...assuming proper magazines and reasonable care.

[hkusp]

Q: How do you get 1911's to feed hollowpoints?

A: Buy a SW1911. If it doesn't feed hollowpoints, send it back on their dime to correct. Period!

[texjack]

You could also try power ball ammo, supposed to feed like roundnose.

[MT GUNNY]

'' Wilson Combat Mags''

[BAT1]

Pull up 1911 Reliability Secrets. Go from there. My 1911 will feed ammo from 1.900 to 1.265 OAL. Or send it back to the factory. I too, have a SS Loaded Champ, and it eats anything.

[Javelin]

Ok Ok I cant resist.....

Q: "How do you get your 1911 to feed hollow points?"

A: "You sell it and buy a Glock."

:D Ok I love 1911's just dont love the quirks hehe.

[Hawk]

How do you get 1911's to feed hollowpoints

I insert them into the magazine with the flat (primer) part facing rearward.

On a more serious note (and serious notes kill me) listen to Tuner. All will be well. Torch the Dremel.

[jpwilly]

My first 1911 (don't laugh) was and still is a Llama Minimax.

It feeds hardball all day long and shoots where the sights are aimed.

Give it HP's and I'd get failures to return to battery with every mag. They were random failures from the 4 mags I have for it. Usually reracking the slide put the round in battery and often all that was needed was a nudge.

First...don't use a dremel on anything. But in my case I used some polishing paste and my finger. I polished the frame rails, the feed ramp and throat on the barrel. Not to a mirror polish but enought to remove the rough feel it had before I started. It is now 100% with HP ammo.

My Taurus PT1911 will feed HP and SWC all day out of the box. My Taurus PT145 Mil Pro Gen 3 does the same.

[TimboKhan]

Well, since I was the first to offer what apparently is controversial and bad advice, let me defend myself by saying that I didn't advocate a dremel! A little scotchbrite isn't going to hurt anything though.

Also, not to sound like bitter bob here, but if it is a non-issue, then why do pretty much all manufacturers of the modern age polish the feedramp? Is it just a marketing gimmick that suckered me in?

[Tom Fury]

Try the Wilson Combat mags before you do anything more expensive or potentially more expensive; (Even polishing the feed ramp) I think it will be a rewarding experience causing you to want to buy more of them ("Say, what if I just replace all of my mags with Wilsons...") This is known as an epiphany, a moment of sacred clarity bestowed by God and endorsed completely by JMB. Many of us have had it, and pray mightily for the rest... I believe it will solve 2/3 of your trouble immediately; the other would require a trade for a S&W.
Solving a 1911 problem by throwing more money at it is the last resort, and very few of us are qualified to "'Smith it yourself". I own a Dremel tool; have not had it near a 1911 yet. Yes I have hand polished a feed ramp or two with dental polishing film, steel wool.
Sounds like a mag problem to me, or at least the place to start.
Cheers, TF

[HM2PAC]

Timbokhan wrote:
Also, not to sound like bitter bob here, but if it is a non-issue, then why do pretty much all manufacturers of the modern age polish the feedramp? Is it just a marketing gimmick that suckered me in?

Because feedramps must be polished and smooth, by someone who is familiar with polishing of said ramps. Any slight imperfection on the ramp can stop the forward motion. The soft copper of the round will be caught into any innocent looking striation that is not inline with the ramp.

People run into problems with dremels because the polishing wheel that is used is convex and the feedramp is not concave, but flat.

The gunsmiths I know use dowels that are cut and flattened to exactly match the ramp, then they use a small amount of lapping compound that is very fine to do the work. The dowel can then be tagged and reused.

Graphite is another problem. It is instant wear. Not removing all of it can cause springs, steel, slide to wear immediately,(i.e. will cut through). If it is used, it must be thoroughly removed with mineral spirits.

The only HP's I have trouble feeding in any of my .45's (1911's & USP) are Speer Gold Dots. The HP's that feed the easiest are built like truncated cones such as Hornady, Nosler, etc....

[combatantr2]

Have you tried the NORINCO 1911? Norcs seem to eat anything.:)

[1911Tuner]

Any slight imperfection on the ramp can stop the forward motion.

How in the world did all those slightly imperfect feed ramps on the older pistols manage to feed? Come look at a few of mine. See the tool marks. Then, stand back and watch'em feed lead SWCs and hollowpoints like green grease thru a loose goose.

then why do pretty much all manufacturers of the modern age polish the feedramp?

Not all of'em do. None of my '91A1 Colts came with polished feed ramps. They've become polished with hard use...but not to a mirror-like finish by any means.

High-end smiths polish to a mirror finish largely because it's expected. It's an attention to detail that most agree enhances feed reliability, but if the frame and barrel ramp geometry is correct, it's not necessary. If you drop megabucks on a full custom, you expect it to be done.

I will go ahead and concede that a deep, polished feed ramp is a lot of help when certain nose-diving 8-round magazines are used...but with proper magazines, the bullet nose doesn't contact very far down on the ramp...so that may be part of the reason that it's done.

The barrel ramp is another point. Often referred to as the "throat"...most people feel like the barrel ramp is an extension of the feed ramp...a bullet guide. It's not. The barrel ramp is a clearance. The bullet nose shouldn't touch it any lower than the top corner, and if the geometry is correct on both ramps...it won't.

Have you tried the NORINCO 1911? Norcs seem to eat anything.

Very true for every Norinco that I own or have had the opportunity to handle and several that I've worked on...except one. It nearly drove me over the edge...even with hardball. I finally got it nailed, and the gun will eat anything that I've thrown at it...but this one's about weaned me. I'm half scared to take on another Nork for fear that I'll get another one like it. :D

[jon_in_wv]

I polish the feed ramp on ALL of my guns. Most guns have slight imperfections that attract carbon and start the buildup of carbon on the feed ramp which effect reliable feeding as it gets dirty. I use a buffer wheel on my dremel and some Flitz polish. It puts a mirror finish on the ramp that carbon does not seem to stick to. The key is to NOT change the feed ramp or throat dimensions. Some people OVER polish or use grinding wheels that change the depth and angles of the throat or feed ramp. Leave that stuff to the pros. I MEAN IT, leave it to the professionals.

[HM2PAC]

1911Tuner wrote:

How in the world did all those slightly imperfect feed ramps on the older pistols manage to feed? Come look at a few of mine. See the tool marks. Then, stand back and watch'em feed lead SWCs and hollowpoints like green grease thru a loose goose.


So tell me where I'm missing the boat? I honestly want to know, and I'm not being sarcastic/cynical.

In a previous posting on this same thread you said that having other people do a "Throat and Ramp" job on their own pistol causes you self inflicted headaches.

What then are they doing wrong that changes the way the pistol feeds?

[1911Tuner]

What then are they doing wrong that changes the way the pistol feeds?

The most common mistake made when someone jumps in and starts polishing is that they aren't careful to maintain the defined corner at the top of the frame's feed ramp. It becomes rounded...or "rolled" as I call it. That effectively changes the critical angle of the ramp and usually guides the bullet nose straight into the barrel ramp. That pushes the barrel forward...and as the slide progresses...the barrel starts moving up. If it moves up too early in the cycle, the front corners of the lugs hit the rear corners of the slide's lugs, which...in its extreme...stops the gun cold in a hard 3-Point Jam.

So...our Dremel jockey investigates closer, and sometimes figures out what is happening...and he turns his attentions to the barrel ramp...aka "throat" and begins to grind away at it until he gets the bullet nose over the top as it should. The problem is that he usually destroys a lot of case head support in the process. Depending on how badly he mangled the frame ramp...he may completely destroy it. Bulged and burst cases are the usual result, especially if the headspace is near its maximum limit.

Or...Another one will look at the gap between the frame and barrel ramp and decide that a smooth, seamless transition would make the gun feed better.
The end result is usually the same. I've seen hack jobs like this done on pistols that fed and functioned perfectly, and it was done simply because the hacker thought that it would be even better after a "Ramp and Throat" job that he read about in a gun magazine.

High-end smiths use machinery, jigs, and fixtures to either correct improper
geometry...or they use'em to maintain correct geometry when they polish the areas. This is something that's very hard to do with a Dremel and a buffing head. It's easy to screw up even with sandpaper and a fingertip if it's overdone, and care isn't taken to maintain that all-important corner at the top of the frame ramp.

The reason that I cringe whenever somebody tells me that they'd done a ramp and throat job is because I know that there's a very good chance that they've lost the angles in the process...and I'm gonna hafta work longer on the gun to correct the feeding problem.
Much rather not work too hard, y'know. I've gotten lazy in my old age.

Been hangin' around the Old Fuff too long, I guess. :D

[HisSoldier]

Interesting thread. I have two Star model S .380's, one feeds very well, the other one I bought apparently NIB but was made in 1966. The Star uses the Browning link and is very similar to a 1911. I bought an extra brand new magazine for the beater Star and it wouldn't feed, so I noticed the feed lips extended forward farther than the mag that did feed. I worked it over until it worked. Then I thought what if all new magazines won't feed? So I got the safe queen Star out and tried it, nope. Traded with my old Star mag that always worked, nope. The cartridge moves forward about .100 and jams against the ramp. I assumed the ramp angle is wrong and intend to carefully measure the other Star's ramp angle and location and check, and recut the NIB Star ramp in the mill if that's the case. If the angle is the same I guess I'll polish it with a cratex wheel. I don't intend to shoot it but can't stand the idea of a gun that won't shoot.
Glen

[Markbo]

Get thee a Jerry Kuhnhausen 1911 shop manual. Read it cover to cover. Twice. Only then will you even begin to wonder how on Earth these guns function at all. They are complex and absolute minute changes in angles and parts can cause dramatic effects.

I will tear into any revolver I own in a heartbeat to work, polish, tune, etc. I won't mess with a 1911 other that standard stripping and cleaning without that manual nearby. I can't answer your questions, but of the CF 1911's I have with more brands of magazines than I know, none have trouble feeding HP's; Kimber, Springfield or Wilson.

Maybe I am just stupid lucky.

[mavracer]

So...our Dremel jockey investigates closer, and sometimes figures out what is happening...and he turns his attentions to the barrel ramp...aka "throat" and begins to grind away at it until he gets the bullet nose over the top as it should. The problem is that he usually destroys a lot of case head support in the process. Depending on how badly he mangled the frame ramp...he may completely destroy it. Bulged and burst cases are the usual result, especially if the headspace is near its maximum limit.
slight Hijack but not off topic
OK Tuner or Fuff.
I have a Charles Daly commander length 1911 feeds any thing with a rounded profile but truncated cone or swc will go up ramp and hang up on bottom of throat. should I work on throat or would I be better off leaving it alone (ie do I run the risk of making it not feed anything)

[1911Tuner]

As the cartridge glances up on the feed ramp, it glides across the top corner of the barrel ramp...not touching any part of the ramp below that point. Or..at most...barely rubbing it as it moves forward and up. Not ideal, but acceptable as long as it's very light contact.

Relate it to pushing a heavy box up a flight of steps. You want it to glide over the top corners and never let the face of the box hit the face of a step.

As the cartridge glides over the corner of the barrel ramp, and starts to break over to horizontal, it places a downward force on the barrel, which keeps it on the frame bed.
This keeps the angle at a minimum, allowing the cartridge to break over to horizontal with less resistance. The advice to lightly roll and polish the top corner of the barrel ramp is sound...but only a little. Don't overdo it. That's a case head support area.

Once the cartridge breaks and enters the chamber, the slide moves forward and finishes chambering it...and the barrel doesn't move forward and up until the breechface contacts the barrel hood. In some few pistols, the breechface guides effect the barrel engagement timing by contacting the chamber face. These are usually the ones that have an overly short hood.
Proper timing is effected by the breechface and the barrel hood.

The result is a pistol that feeds and goes to battery with authority. There is no hesitation, and there's no "Ka-Chunk" feel or sound as it feeds. Just a satisfying "SCHHHHLACK" as it functions...no matter if it's the top round or the last...or anywhere in between. These are the pistols that seem to eat anything that we throw at'em with equal relish. These are the ones that don't set the bullet deeper in the case even after repeated chamberings. Given proper extractor geometry and tension...these are the ones that are so reliable that they're boring.

[swabjocky]

What TimboKhan said

[1911Tuner]

Mavracer asked:

I have a Charles Daly commander length 1911 feeds any thing with a rounded profile but truncated cone or swc will go up ramp and hang up on bottom of throat.

Your feed ramp is probably out of spec. That angle should be 31 to 31.5 degrees...period. If it's 32 degrees, it's too shallow, and will guide the bullet nose into the barrel ramp...which is what yours sounds like it's doing. That it feeds rounded bullet profiles indicates that it's probably tot too far off.

With hardball...chambering the top round from slidelock by tripping the slidestop...does it go: "Ka-Chunk"? If it does...that's probably your bug.

Another possibility is that the barrel to frame gap is insufficient. With the barrel in the frame...slidestop installed...and the barrel pushed fully rearward and down...there should be a minimum gap between the bottom of the barrel and top of the frame ramps of a 32nd inch. It can be a little more...but not less.

Another critical angle is the barrel ramp itself. You have a little more leeway than with the frame ramp...but there are still limits. About 20 degrees is the minimum. 25 is better, as long as the ramp doesn't go too deep in the chamber. Again...Remember case head support. If you lose it too far forward on the cartridge case...you've got problems of the ka-blooey variety.

[TheLastBoyScout]

How do you get a 1911 to feed hollowpoint rounds??????? I'm stumped. They all feed 230grain ball without a hitch.

If the answer is, buy another model, please specify a model that you have had good luck with.

I have a PT1911. Admittedly it's fairly new, but I just function tested it with 50rds of WWB hollowpoints, after approx 400rds of (blazer/fiocchi) ball. Not a single hiccup.

[HisSoldier]

I have the Kuhnhausen manuals, thanks.

[Charles S]

Tuner...What magazines do you prefer?

[1911Tuner]

Tuner...What magazines do you prefer?

At the present...7-round...standard dimpled follower, with a good spring. Wolff 11-pounders are my go-to springs whenever I have the need.

Now, hold onto your seat...

I like USGI magazines...the real ones, and not gunshow fakes. The best aftermarket magazines I've found thus far are the ones that Check-Mate Industries and Metalform make for Colt. I refer to'em as "Hybrids" because they combine the gradual, later release of the GI hardball mags and the timed release point of the wadcutter-type magazines. Very often, using these magazines and doing nothing else to the gun has cured many a feeding/return to battery issue. Not on all guns...but on a large percentage. They're made by the vendors to Colt's specifications. OKAY Industries also supplies Colt with the same magazine, but their quality isn't quite up to the standards of the other two.

Metalform won't sell the magazines unless they have an overrun on a Colt contract. Check-Mate will...and they're a little cheaper than Metalform. They also offer a sizeable discount for orders of 50 or more...and the price per unit drops agains at a hundred, and again at 250. The springs are apparently as good as Wolff's 11-pounders.

Now for the 8-round fans:

Check-Mate has designed and redesigned a follower and spring that offers the best promise of a flush-fit, 8-round magazine that is as reliable as a 7-round stick...or at least it's seemed so in fairly extensive testing by myself and a few other people...and they're available with the hybrid type lips OR the early/abrupt release wadcutter type. The price is the same.

Testing hasn't proven to be definitive as yet. They haven't been on the market long enough to make that call...but it looks very promising so far.
My pistols are so utterly reliable that they really can't be a litmus test for the magazines...but many other people who have used them in off-the-rack pistols report the same things. Smoother feeding...completely reliable feeding with a variety of bullet shapes...reliable slidelock on empty...and only one has reported a failure of the magazine to drop free on release...and that was with one magazine. Check-Mate replaced it without question.

They enlisted my help in the follower design, and used my suggestions. If that sounds like a little braggin'...Guilty. I'm proud to have been a part of it, and my only payment was 6 free magazines to keep after my part of the evaluation was over. it was a completely fun, interesting, and satisfying endeavor...and even though I've scoffed at 8-round magazines since before WW1...I may be forced to eat my own words in another year. I sincerely hope so.

Disclaimer:

I am not in the employ of Check-Mate Industires, and I do not receive any royalties nor any compensation for my part in the design. Neither do I receive free merchandise beyond the 6 freebies that they sent during the R&D and evaluation. I don't own stock in the company, and have no financial interest in its well-being.

If you decide to give'em a call...ask for Jackie Vieweg. She is lady of the first order and a pleasure to speak with. Tell her that Tooner sentcha. ;)

[twinhairdryers]

fans with some experience debugging some older models.

Well, I tried the what TimboKhan said and polished the feed ramp and the top hood of the barrel and it's corners with some 600grit paper oiled with CLP. About 10 minutes of finger polish. Never felt so close to the mag well or the chamber on a 1911 that is for sure :).

Did this to the Colt series 80 and the RIA cheapo. I practiced hand cycling both after the polishing jobs with the deepest cut JHPs that were giving me most problems. The RIA I could not get to fail to enter battery. The Colt, still wouldn't work. Improved, yes, but it was rare that I could hand cycle a full mag without a 3 point hitchup.

Took the RIA to the range today and put 150 rounds of the JHP down the pipe. Only 2 FTBs that I actually fixed by just bumping the back of the slide and it tapped and locked those two. I compare this to 2 FTBs per magazine on all 22 mags I have prior to the fluff job. Damn, this was quite an improvement. This was at least 95% of the issue. I did miss someones recommendation to buff the chamber face around the firing pin, as it does have a very slight burr outward from the firing pin chamber. I'll try that next, but this is a huge improvement.

I did get the Colt working with CBC headstamp JHPs. I think they are Magtech, but were in the old mixed bag o' 45acp. I may end up setting with a select few JHP loads that the Colt will eat. Not the end of the world.

[kawhead71]

I own a Star PD (I know, it's an old piece of crap) but it's never failed to feed and fire anything I put in the mag. (although the .22 LR rounds do group erratically):o

[Old Fuff]

I have an early edition of your "old piece of crap," :rolleyes: and it doesn't bobble either. It will also put its shots into one ragged hole at 50 feet, and rattles if you shake it. :scrutiny: ;)

[coelacanth]

monotonously reliable and pleasant to carry. It has a crappy trigger and crappy sights and if something ever breaks I'm going to have a crappy time trying to find parts for it but what the crap - so far, so good. ;)

[makarovnik]

If it feeds FMJ reliably I would just stick with those. I'm not sure standard velocity hollowpoints expand reliably enough to make a difference but +P rounds might do better. The .45acp is still devastatingly effective with a nice 1/2" hole in the front and a big nasty hole out the back. Over-penetration shouldn't be a big problem either.

Also try Cor-Bon powerball. Nasty stuff!

[kawhead71]

Coelacanth and Fluff:Bless you guys, I thought I was the only one. "Rattles if you shake it!!" You got that right. Sounds like a coffee can full of washers falling down a flight of metal stairs. Wouldn't trade it for anything! I can't tell you how many smirks I've gotten from high-dollar clone owners when I bust out the PD. It's a dandy shooter, and I'd stake my life on it's ability to make a bad guy lose interest in messing with me.

[1911Tuner]

twinhairdryers...You're almost there. Sounds like a little extractor tweakin' is in order. A little less tension, maybe. Maybe a bevel on the bottom corner of the tensioning wall to ease the pickup. Simple/detail stuff is all.

If you do more polishing on the feed ramp, please be very careful to avoid the top corner. It doesn't take much radiusing there to go from honey to vinegar.

[Old Fuff]

The Star PD was the first of the sub-compact .45's, and like many "firsts" it had some issues. But unlike a lot of the newer high priced clones, it not only worked but did so without any tweeking, polishing, or high-cost aftermarket magazines. It is generally lost on a lot of today's buyers that the ones that rattle are the ones that give the fewest problems. ;)

[TimboKhan]

It is generally lost on a lot of today's buyers that the ones that rattle are the ones that give the fewest problems.

Not me. I have long railed about tight, overpriced guns.

[jon_in_wv]

Kawhead, if you feel the need to get rid of that "piece of crap" pm me. I've been looking for a "piece of crap" like that.

[twinhairdryers]

Damn. Now I have to learn more and figure out how to tweak the extractor tension.................. I knew it would come down to figuring out this technique. But. as they say grasshopper. Read....learn.....put away the dremel.......tweak.........test..........shoot.........shoot........shoot......ah yes - 1911 Nirvana!

I agree. I could actually see that on both the FTBs on the RIA and Series80 that the rim was snagged coming up on trying to get by the extractor or on the back face of the chamber.

Now - I have removed my extractor, but how do I lighten the tension????

I almost did a small dance on the range line when I pumped 148 casings out of 150 through a 5" circle at 15 yards. But then I caught myself, and reloaded my mags. By the way, 4" groups in 2 mags at 15 yards if as good as I shoot free hand, so don't dig on my capability. Plus, I have 400 bucks in this RIA including mags. A race gun it will not be. A nice range shooter. It is.

I always sort of laugh when a pro tells me things like "to ease the pickup. Simple/detail stuff is all.".

I think it is the simple/detail stuff is what gets me. I was shooting a Ruger Single six at the range today and the entire front rib that ejects the spent casings fell off the gun. It took me 10 minutes to figure out that the one small flat screw that holds the entire assembly into the barrel had worked loose and the whole thing fell off. Needless to say, a dab of red screw locker and I'm sure I would never get the thing off if I wanted to......Mechanical, no.

[twinhairdryers]

into it of every type of ball ammo you could imagine or even purchase and it didn't hitch up once. I switched to a couple varieties of JHP and it turned into a latch up school girl. I definately found out what ammo this thing was designed for. Trying to "tweak" it to feed 21st century ammo seems like a challenge. It may be one of those guns that you keep it for what is was worth, shoot what it was designed to shoot, and stop bitchin and not polish or tweak it.

Or, I could sell it and buy a 1911 that chambers most everything. Hmmmmmmmmmmm.. not sure. I like the way it shoots and handles for a mil spec arm it shoots better than I would expect.

[DMK]

Metalform won't sell the magazines unless they have an overrun on a Colt contract.

Brownells sells Metalform Magazines and they also sell the Metalform dimpled follower separately.

http://www.brownells.com/aspx/ns/store/ProductDetail.aspx?p=9210&title=1911%20AUTO%20MAGAZINES

Wolff 11-pounders are my go-to springs whenever I have the need.
They also have the Wolf springs:

Standard Extra Power:

http://www.brownells.com/aspx/ns/store/ProductDetail.aspx?p=16584&title=1911%20AUTO%20EXTRA%20POWER%20MAGAZINE%20SPRING

Chrome Silicone ("set resistant"):
http://www.brownells.com/aspx/ns/store/ProductDetail.aspx?p=24563&title=1911%20AUTO%20CHROME%20SILICON%20RECOIL%20SPRING

[1911Tuner]

Brownells sells Metalform Magazines

Not the Colt-designed "hybrids" they don't. In order to get those from Brownells, you've got to go to the Colt factory parts catalog in the back, and order Colt 7-round magazines. Pricey...and you may get a Metalform...or a Check-Mate...or an OKAY mag. Depends on the luck of the draw.

Metalform dimpled follower separately.

Last time I checked, all they offered were the Metalform round-topped followers. Hope they've started selling the standard followers...even though the slidestop elevator shelf isn't quite to spec.

[DMK]

Last time I checked, all they offered were the Metalform round-topped followers. Hope they've started selling the standard followers...even though the slidestop elevator shelf isn't quite to spec.Ah, I was wondering about that description. The picture clearly shows a dimpled follower, but they do refer to them as round topped.

Not the Colt-designed "hybrids" they don't. In order to get those from Brownells, you've got to go to the Colt factory parts catalog in the back, and order Colt 7-round magazines. Pricey...and you may get a Metalform...or a Check-Mate...or an OKAY mag. Depends on the luck of the draw.Darn. Oh well.

So is Check-Mate the only source for Check-Mate mags?

[texagun]

"So is Check-Mate the only source for Check-Mate mags?"


Check here...you can save a few bucks ordering them here:

http://forum.m1911.org/showthread.php?t=40795

[1911Tuner]

So is Check-Mate the only source for Check-Mate mags?

Is that like a trick question? :scrutiny:

J/K

Check-Mate is the only source for Colt's patented design without paying for the prancin' horsie...UNLESS...Metalform has an overrun that they haven't stamped the Colt logo on yet. Sometimes they'll have a dozen or two...but they're expensive unless you include them in a 40-magazine bulk order.

[Hoppy590]

How do you get 1911's to feed hollowpoints

well first i place the HP in the magazine
then place the magazine in the pistol

and wow. they work! good job Para Ord.

[R12GS]

Sorry to say this, but congratulations, you'll either have to have work done to it, or run thousands of rounds through it to "break it" in. Thats the joys of owning a 1911, me I have one and it'll be my one and only.

[1911Tuner]

you'll either have to have work done to it, or run thousands of rounds through it to "break it" in

Not necessarily. It may be something as simple as a magazine change or just backing off the extractor tension a bit.

As far as the "break-in" thing goes...That may hold true with an extremely tightly-fitted gun...but not with a stock Colt.

It's usually somethin' simple with these issues...and with any feed-related problem...the magazine is the first suspect. As to that...I wish I had a dime for every one that I've "fixed" by simply handing the owner a few good magazines and watchin' the pistol run like the Energizer Rabbit.

[HammerBite]

Please check your PM.

[robertbank]

IMHO the integrated feed ramp that Para developed solved this problem. I have had two of them and both guns have fed every conceivable nose configuration of bullet designed to be shot in the 1911, including some that were not. Had JMB had modern CNC equipment to work with this is one thing I am certain he would designed into the package.

That said my $325 Norincos with the traditional feed ramp set up has reacted the same way with all nose types as well with 7, 8 and 10 rd mags from STI, Norinco, McCormick, Colt, Metalform & Para. The pistols come with throated feed ramps.

Take Care

Bob

[1911Tuner]

IMHO the integrated feed ramp that Para developed solved this problem.

There never was a problem to solve, other than failing to adhere to the correct specs.

[robertbank]

"There never was a problem to solve, other than failing to adhere to the correct specs."

Which clearly most don't, including Colt. To the gun was never designed to shoot HP bullets and some would argue only for the RN bullet. Simple throating of the ramp of the barrel solves most o fthese issues but then you are at variance to the original design.

Para at least sticks to the original drawings save and except the ramped barrel and now the PXT extractor. No doubt the 1911 design is a watershed design but it certainly represented the knowledge of the day. Browning/Sauve went with the ramped barrel, and linkless barrel set up with the Hi-Power and both are not the rigour in most pistols made today. Not sure why nobdy hasn't produced a 1911 with the linkless set up. One less part to break. Do you know if there is a technical issue involved?

Take Care

Bob

[steelyblue]

I've never had a Kimber fail to feed a hp round! It may happen, but it never has for me.

[usa1993]

Man, I almost hate to keep this thread going!! Let me ask some of you this: I had a 1911 that would feed anything, but on close inspection of the round that I chambered I could see that the bullet was pushed back slightly into the case. Not much, but when you lined it up next to an unchambered round you could see a slight difference. The more you chambered the same round the more the bullet was pushed back into the case. It was factory Speer Gold Dot HP and a few other HP's in case you're wondering. Ball ammo was unaltered by chambering. So................what's up with that????:confused:

[MICHAEL T]

I buy Colts Have never had a feeding problem., My new Agent got 2 mags of ball then. It went on a diet of Remington HP, Winchester HP, and Federal HP , was fired all of one brand and mix and match. I finished off with Corbon DPX 185+P . Just like the Defender before it The Officer acp and My Commanders Runs perfect.

[1911Tuner]

Which clearly most don't, including Colt.

Not in my experience. Only occasionally do I run into a Colt...old or new...with feed issues that can't be resolved by using a proper magazine design. My early 1991A1 and my NRM Government Model feed hollowpoints and HG #68 SWCs as smoothly and as surely as they feed hardball...even from WW1 and WW2 USGI magazines. Always have.

A little more frequently, I'll hit a snag with a recent Springfield in the feed ramp geometry...but none of the older ones. Same for Kimber.

I've noted the most problems with integral ramped barrels in .45 caliber pistols. Most notably the Springfield Micro Compact.

[TimboKhan]

I've noted the most problems with integral ramped barrels in .45 caliber pistols. Most notably the Springfield Micro Compact.


I owned a Springfield Micro Compact and I had a 100% failure rate with HP in that gun. FMJ was great, but HP was just not good. Because of that, and a couple of other issues, the Springfield Micro Compact has the record for the gun I have owned the least amount of time.

[1911Tuner]

I owned a Springfield Micro Compact and I had a 100% failure rate with HP in that gun. FMJ was great, but HP was just not good.

At least you had ball. I've had three on the bench so far that would hang up on it randomly. They might go 150 rounds without a burp...and then wouldn't get through a magazine without a stoppage for the next 50 ro so...then start to work again. Those are the most frustrating misfeeds to work out.

[spiroxlii]

Sorry... I realized AFTER I posted that I was reviving a very very old thread. I started a new one instead.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=4767186

[crankshop1000]

Maybe I'm nuts...BUT, I use a bit of Carnuba wax on the feed ramp and chamber area and it seems to enhance the feed on a polished or stock ramp.

[HGUNHNTR]

Trade it in for an up to date design.
Wax should be for cars, get a modern pistol designed for modern ammunition.

[Disaster]

...The more you chambered the same round the more the bullet was pushed back into the case. It was factory Speer Gold Dot HP and a few other HP's in case you're wondering. Ball ammo was unaltered by chambering. So................what's up with that????

That is caused by the front of the JHP catching on something but it shouldn't happen because the bullet should be too tight in the cartridge to allow it to happen. It takes a pretty good pounding to move a properly seated bullet in a properly sized case. It is a bad thing because reducing the space in the cartridge will increase the pressure. Luckily .45's have a lot of extra powder space, which is how they were able to shorten them for the .45 GAP design. If this happened with a 9mm +P however, I'd be much more concerned.