[bogie]

Okay - it's a Norinco 1911A1. Currently has a slightly smithed original trigger, Pachmyer grips, Wilson two-piece FL guide rod and buffer (also have a Group Grabber or whatever it's called, but I don't like it), and Chip McMags...

Don't really want to replace the barrel or slide, and don't want to do major alterations.

What would you do? What's the most bang for the buck? It'll eventually be a carry piece after we get the stuff passed.

[Silent Bob]

If it is going to be a carry gun, keep it basic and simple. All you need are good (preferably night) sights, a dehorning, a smooth (not necessarily light) trigger, and a suitable finish. I like the GI-style recoil set-up myself, and if it was me I would ditch the two-piece FLGR. Decent mags, Wilsons or CMC Powermags, whichever one your gun prefers. Good idea to have a Wilson Bullet-proof or Ed Brown Hardcore extractor, tuned and polished as well.

[bogie]

Why not the FLGR?

Some night sights will probably happen. Dehorning is major alteration, and won't happen until I have a backup.

Why the different extractor? The existing one seems to work pretty well.

Thus far, have only had problems with it feeding 155 and 185 gr. wadcutters, and Speer Gold Dots (may be my loading length) - Never has had a problem with either Federals Hydrashoks or Hornady XTPs (185 or 230).

[Sean Smith]

In a few weeks I should have my fairly basic (on the outside, anyway :p ) Delta Elite back from Ted Yost. Here are my thoughts...

First off, make sure it is reliable. That's Rule Zero.
Second, make sure the hammer doesn't bite you. If it does, have it shortened ("bobbed") so it doesn't.
Next priority is a good trigger. Doesn't have to be ultra-light for a practical weapon (I'd say 4-5 pound pull is good), but it should be crisp with minimal creep and no gritty feel.
Then come the sights. You don't need to spring for some pricey Novaks or Heinies (though they are nice sights). Kings sells good sights that fit in the standard dovetail, and a few others do too.
After that, get rid of the sharp edges, have the magwell beveled, get it re-blued, and you're in business.
If you don't like the accuracy, a simple re-crown and fitting an oversized match bushing can usually give you the improvement you need. You only need a new barrel if the stock one is totally buggered up.

You don't "have to" do any of that stuff (aside from make it reliable), but the above are what I'd consider "sensible" mods that give you bang for the buck. Beyond that is just gravy. I'd also ditch the group-gripper or two piece guide rod and use a short plug or solid FLGR. Two-piece guide rods can shoot themselves unscrewed, and the group gripper is a gimmick. My understanding is that Norincos are made of good materials, actually.

The key thing is to make sure someone competent does any modifications for you.

[AZ Jeff]

If I remember correctly, the Norinco's have the military style M1911 sights, which are less that optimal for all around use. I would go for some aftermarket sights, if it were my piece.

Fixed or adjustable, it's up to you. Each has its' advantages. No matter what you choose, it has to be better than what exists on it now.

[CWL]

The best addition to a basic M1911 is sights, second would be a trigger/reliability job.

[Archie]

Except I don't need night sights. A good set of fixed, high visibility (meaning bigger than the originals, not some exotic color) sights are what I prefer.

Get the trigger to a workable level. No less than 4-5 pounds for a working gun, but fairly clean.

De-horning. I don't understand what one dehorns on an autopistol.

FLGR? Isn't needed. If it's there, I probably wouldn't change it back, either.

The upgraded extractor will give a longer service life with fewer problems and less liklihood of breakage.

Like Bob said, keep it simple. You do not need an extended slide stop; nor usually an ambidextrous safety. Rarely an extended safety, either. And never an extended magazine release.
Until you can hold a three inch group at 25 yards in timed and rapid fire, don't worry about the slide or barrel.

[Sean Smith]

De-horning. I don't understand what one dehorns on an autopistol.

To de-horn an autopistol is to remove any sharp edges. Many autopistols (especially older ones) have sharp edges in abundance.

[Archie]

I understand the concept of de-horning, I just don't know where it applies on a 1911.

The only sharp edges I can think of are the edges of the rear sight and the bottom rear of the slide. Maybe the hammer spur.

What specific parts are you referring to?

[Sean Smith]

Uh, it depends on the gun. Sometimes it applies nearly everywhere. I've handled old Springfield Armory guns where everything that wasn't a flat surface was machined to a sharp edge. I had a Kimber that was like a bar of soap from the factory... nothing sharp anywhere. And I've had a couple of Colts that were in-between.

[Silent Bob]

As Mr. Smith said, two-piece guide rods can become unscrewed while shooting, but in general I just don't care for FLGRs but if you do, great, but I would stick with a one-piece one. Also in my view the extractor is too crucial a part for me regarding reliability in a 1911 and I do not trust the factory extractors in any production 1911 (although I do not have any experience with the new bar-stock extractors in new Colts) and want either a Wilson or Ed Brown extractor for peace of mind.

[CTI1USNRET]

I put non-tritium big dot express sights on my 1911A1. Placing the sights on target is automatic. They're not bullseye target sights. But they can't be beat on a carry weapon.

http://www.expresssights.com/handgun_sights.html

[OF]

I don't know about Norincos, but I have a new Springfield Loaded 5" that I'm thinking about getting worked over sometime soon:

- mild carry bevel (dehorn) and countersink the slidestop pin, just enough to make it look a little bit custom ;)
- scalloped frontstrap and 'high-cut'
- basic reliability job
- solid trigger installed with a 4# trigger job
- replace the ambi-safety with a slim strong-side only that rides a bit lower
- install a beavertail w/o 'memory bump' and then pin the grip safety down
- ashley express sights...maybe
- open the magwell up as much as possible
- gunkote the thing

:)

- Gabe

[Old Fuff]

I will rise to the defense of the maligned little “group-gripper.” It is not necessarily a worthless gadget. A small flat spring pushes on a notch in a modified barrel link with an oversized lower hole. As the slide closes and goes into battery it pushes the rear of the barrel up, and securely locks it into position thereby increasing accuracy. If there is fouling or dirt in the slide it still works, where a closely fitted barrel may hang up and not allow the slide to fully close. The group-gripper will usually improve an ordinary pistol’s accuracy without compromising reliability, nor requiring the more substantial cost of a fitted match barrel and “accurazing job.”

[Drifting Fate]

Thank you guys. You have reminded me why I got away from 1911's in the first place.

I have been itching for another one, but this thread has caused flashbacks about money and gunsmiths.

[Sean Smith]

... based on the false premise that any of this is necessary (as opposed to just fun and cool stuff to do to a gun that probably cost $300 at most).

[10-Ring]

The thing about the 1911 is the potential to do whatever you like to it. Me, I wasn't too happy w/ the hammer bite mine gave me so I went for the beaver tail & commander hammer. I also went for the MMC adjustable night sights.
Have gun w/ your 1911!

[pale horse]

If you have not shot it then dont change anything. One of the biggest problems people see with 1911s is everyone else has theirs customized by _____ famous gunsmith just becuase. Get 200 rounds of ammo and see how you like it currently. If its 100% leave it alone and shoot the snot out of it.

I am guilty of having some work done on my that was not 100% needed, but it did need a extractor so I figgered why not get some sti parts for my trigger.

As to the pistol I would 86 the group gripper it does improve accuracy, but in my experience it caused one pistol to not fully go into battery. If you want a flgr get one a 2 piece standard recoil plug set up will do too.

Like I said eariler shoot a couple of hundred rounds through it and see how it does. Take notes on what you dont like and then fix it accordingly.

[444]

You have already done more than I would do. I would shoot/carry it just like it came out of the box.

I bought a Colt Series 80 1911 about 10 years ago. I competed with it in an IPSC match before I ever took it home. No cleaning, nothing; store to range. I continued to shoot that same pistol in IPSC and IDPA for years. During that time I practiced frequently, sometimes shooting 1000 rounds per week. I occasionally had to change springs, extractors, and ejectors as they wore out.
Recently I had to add a beavertail grip safety because for some reason it started chewing up my hand. I don't know if it is because I got fatter over the last 10 years or because I am using a higher grip on the gun. But it now has one aftermarket part on it.
A couple weeks ago I took the Gunsite 250 class and fired approx. 950 rounds out of that tired old pistol without a hitch.
Stock sights, stock trigger, no gimmicks. All go, no show.

[OF]

based on the false premise that any of this is necessary Absolutely. My Springfield works just as well as any of my other pistols without any changes at all. I am delighted that I also have the opportunity to customize it into a truly personal fighting handgun that is damn close to exactly what I want. That's a bonus, not a reason to "get away from 1911's". Sounds more like a self-control problem than a gun problem...

I tried to order a Sig 226 with a scalloped frontstrap, but all I got was laughed at.

- Gabe

[bogie]

I _have_ shot this pistol extensively - First bought it back around 1990, and recently bought it back from the fellow I was stupid enough to sell it to a coupla years ago...

The group gripper hasn't been in it since forever - Bought it, didn't like it, decided it was a PITA to deal with, and installed the FLGR... Why are they bad anyway?

Thinking of putting in a match trigger (altho the worked factory trigger ain't bad...), adding the night sights, a new extractor, and _maybe_ one of the drop-in beavertails and a different hammer/sear/disconnector - I _have_ been bit a couple of times (in a few thousand rounds). I may end up switching it back to "stock," because when I _do_ carry the thing, I tend to carry it chambered with the hammer down, since I don't trust safeties, and I can thumb cock with the existing hammer a lot easier than I can deal with the slide. Sorry, but that's comfortable for me.

[OF]

Why are they bad anyway?I think the big deal is that they're unnecessary more than they are really evil. As far as I can tell, the only major drawback is you can't clear a stuck case in the chamber by banging the dustcover on something hard. That and you need a tool to take the gun down...which may be a consideration for some, but I'm having a hard time imagining a civilian ever needing to field strip his gun under fire.

You can take the slide assembly off the frame without the allen wrench, however. At least that's something.

I have a 2-pc in my Springfield right now and everyone tells me it's going to come unscrewed, but the damn thing is tighter after a range session that it was before.

I guess I'll just have to get a regular GI piece in there and see if I like it better.

- Gabe

[bogie]

Well, I do like the way the FLGR sorta 'holds everything together' since I'm planning on buying another Ciener kit for the thing. Swapping only take a few seconds.

[444]

I have a Springfield Armory "Loaded" 1911 that has a full length guide rod in it. And YES, it does unscrew when you are shooting it. I can't give you a number as to how many rounds this takes, but I would say over 100 and less than 200. Of course there are fixes for it, but I would prefer to just not have it. But, that particular pistol is strictly a range gun. It came from the factory as a semi-lemon. It wasn't accurate, and the slide rails were not straight. The first day I had it, I took it out with my above mentioned Colt. I fired a few groups with the Springfield and expressed my dismay to my buddy. He blamed it on my shooting. I took out the Colt and fired several groups a fraction of the size of the Springfield. He was shooting a Springfield also, but his had a Bar-Sto barrel. We took his barrel and put it in my gun and the groups shrank (is that a word ?) by at least half. When you ran the action, you could feel the high spots in the slide rails and the gun didn't always go into battery. I ended up sending the whole thing to Jim Clark and having an accuracy job done on it. It will now shoot 1 1/2" groups at 50 yards from a machine rest, but it can only take about 150 rounds before I start to get malfunctions. It can't take dirt or crud; it is too tight. It is fun to shoot on the range, but I wouldn't trust it as a defensive pistol.

[bogie]

Well, the fellow who originally had my Norinco did a bit of work on it - It's accurate, but reliable - Nice balance in there. It's tight, but not so tight that things start jamming. Much nicer than what I qualified with in the Army.

[444]

The 1911 I was issued in the Army was on it's last legs. And, it didn't shoot very good. Keeping them all on paper wasn't easy, actually getting a group was considered outstanding.

The last two days, I had the pleasure of shooting a WWII, 1911 bring back. It belonged to a pilot. The gentleman recently died and left the gun to his grandson, whom I work with. THe grandson showed it to me and I commented that if it was mine and I wanted to shoot it, I would replace all the springs in the gun. So, of course he asked me to do it for him. I was playing with the pistol at home and realized that none of the safeties worked. Neither grip, nor thumb. I adivsed him of this and told him that if it were mine, I would simply put it away as a family heirloom. But he kind of wanted to fire it. So, I dug around through my junkbox and found some parts. I replaced the hammer, sear, and thumb safety with some parts I had laying around. I also bought a Wolf Spring Pak and replaced every spring in the gun. I of course kept the original parts that showed clear signs of someone filing on them. Anyway, I took it out and it ran great. It was as accurate as any brand new 1911 out there. It doesn't rattle etc. I got to thinking that this is probably a GI 1911 that was never rebuilt etc. THis is what it would have been like back when they issued NEW 1911s to the troops. It is a fine old handgun that I would be perfectly willing to carry into harms way right now. There are a couple issues with it; the slide doesn't lock back on the last round, the sight are tiny, and it shoots high; would work great with a 6 o'clock hold on a 25 yard bullseye target. But, nothing super critical, I would want the slide lock though.

[Erik Jensen]

bullets.

[Tamara]

What I'd add to make it a totin' gun?

Flat checkered MSH, long trigger, no-snag three dot sights, beavertail with a wart, no-snag hammer, and maybe checkering or skateboard tape on the frontstrap.


That's a real personal and subjective thing, though. :uhoh:

[bogie]

Okay - in order of "add-to" I'm gonna do the following:

1. New extractor - which do you guys recommend? I'm leaning toward Wilson

2. Match trigger - which would y'all like for a carry gun?

3. Different hammer/sear/disconnector - Again, which vendor? I assume I'm going to need this because I'd also like to add a...

4. Drop-in beavertail

5. Lastly, I'll probably swap out barrels

Thinking of putting in a match trigger (altho the worked factory trigger ain't bad...), adding the night sights, a new extractor, and _maybe_ one of the drop-in beavertails and a different hammer/sear/disconnector - I _have_ been bit a couple of times (in a few thousand rounds). I may end up switching it back to "stock," because when I _do_ carry the thing, I tend to carry it chambered with the hammer down, since I don't trust safeties, and I can thumb cock with the existing hammer a lot easier than I can deal with the slide. Sorry, but that's comfortable for me.