[Preacherman]

Guys, I need some recommendations, please. I'm shopping for a .45 ACP pistol of COMPACT size (not 1911/Commander, but also not sub-compact size - something in between) for a lady who wants to carry in that caliber. There are a few added rules:

1. No 1911-type designs: the lady's hand is rather small, and she has problems reliably depressing the grip safety. This also rules out the Para-Ordnance LDA line.

2. Must be capable of DA/SA or DAO carry - no cocked-and-locked.

3. No fat grips - therefore Glock 30, etc. out of the picture.

4. Must be reasonably light - not a featherweight, but light enough for a rather petite lady to carry for extended periods.


I must confess, I'm battling with the choice on this one. I've thought of the following, with reasons why they are/are not a good choice:

(a) Glock 36: fits her hand, but limited ammo supply, and nastier recoil with the thin grip than the G30.

(b) CZ97: excellent gun, but big and heavy.

(c) SIG P220: superb gun (possibly the Rolls-Royce of DA/SA .45's), but again, heavy. I haven't handled one myself - what's the grip thickness like? Would a small hand be able to comfortably use it?

(d) EAA Witness: 10-round mag, which means thicker grips. On the other hand, it's a derivative of the CZ-75 design, which seems to fit smaller hands well. Anyone out there with any experience of them?

(e) Taurus PT-145: no, thanks, not after the QC problems they've had with them! :barf:

(f) Ruger P97: fits her hand, not too heavy, but bulky for CCW.


Any of you have any good ideas/suggestions?

[Ian11]

Pretty narrow parameters because there aren't a whole lot of .45's for small hands.

There is the SIG P245 but recoil may be closer to Glock 36 than SIG P220. Hard to imagine a 1911 being more difficult to grip than a SIG P220 which requires greater hand strength for first DA pull. Maybe Beretta Cougar in .45 ACP but again grip might still be too bulky. Best bet just might be the S&W autos. The S&W 457, 4513 TSW, 4563 TSW, and 4566 TSW. Has she fired compact .45's before? She should make sure she's comfortable with the way they handle before commiting.

To be honest I think she should reconsider and maybe think about getting a 9mm or .40 pistol.

[MJRW]

Bersa Thunder .45? I don't know anything about how well they do or don't shoot, though. I just know the the grip is comfortable and its compact.

[Old Fuff]

I agree with Ian11. Considering the circumstances and limiting factors imposed by the user, it probably would be better to consider something in .40 S&W or even 9mm Para. An ultra-light compact pistol that will meet her needs for concealment is at best going to have "meaningful" recoil. The most important thing is that she be able to hit exactly where she intends too, and a large grip - small hand- light caliber .45 pistol doesn't seem like a good answer.

[tlhelmer]

Would that fit your requirements?

I have one. It is a great gun.

[Preacherman]

Yep, I agree with all of you that a smaller-caliber pistol might be better suited to her, but she's married to a .45 nut, who doesn't want to buy his wife anything in a smaller round. I think he's not seeing the wood for the trees, but it's not my decision (unfortunately).

That being the case, what are your recommendations?

[WhoKnowsWho]

.45 and smaller thin grip... sounds like you need to get her the new Glock!!

[Old Fuff]

Maybe a different husband .... ? Oh no, I didn't say that.

I think at this point I'd look at Smith & Wesson's. I don't particularly like their automatics, but they have some that might meet you're requirements.

[PCRCCW]

Ok...
Witness Compact Steel or Poly version. Both are very nice guns....QC is a bit spotty but when they run they run forever.
Sig 245 perfect but spendy.
Taurus PT945 NOT THE 145, this is an alloy frame.
Para Ordinance LDA45 Compact with a weak/bent main spring????????

".45 and smaller thin grip... sounds like you need to get her the new Glock!!"

Ok....uh huh? :what: :neener: :rolleyes:

Shoot well

[10-Ring]

My initial impression was that the Glock 36 would be perfect. 6+1 rounds of 45 acp should be mighty comforting ;) But, if that doesn't do the trick, the USPc 45 should :D

[sanchezero]

How bout one of the CCW type paraLDAs and pin the grip safety?

:cool:

[444]

I carry a Colt Officer's Model, but you don't want a 1911.
I shot a couple mags out of the little Glock .45. It seemed like a decent pistol. In fact I liked it.
One thing to consider. I am a firm believer that there is no reason why a woman can't handle a .45 Auto. BUT, when you try to do it in a miniture, sub-compact I might have reservations. I believe that small, short-barreled handguns are the tools of experts or at least experienced shooters. They are harder to shoot well, they exhibit more recoil.............
Just because the shooter is female doesn't mean that she has to shoot a miniture gun. Every woman in my last Gunsite class was shooting a full sized 1911. None were experienced shooters and none had any problem at all.

I am sure you have considered all this stuff before, if so, I apoligize.

[Darrin]

(e) Taurus PT-145: no, thanks, not after the QC problems they've had with them! Wasn't that problem resolved? Get a new one, not used.

[longeyes]

The Glock 36 fits the bill. I like mine. The recoil isn't
THAT bad. Rent one and give it a good try.

I have a Glock 30 also but it wouldn't be my first choice for
carry because of its weight. Nonetheless, it's a very nice pistol too.
A tad thick in the grip, though, for some people.

I have no personal experience with the alternatives.

[Climb14er]

HK USPc .45 ACP

[sm]

Glock 36

Dang , why don't you set some limits? ;)

Since I tend to -well -be me, I still think the Commander size with the right grips will work because I've seen it done too many times. I insist you make her try a Pro Carry, and if the swartz thngy should happen fall out and th e hole gets plugged...so?

IF an only IF she gets an officers size and likes I would implore she keep it maintained...little fellers tend to want more attention.

[tetchaje1]

SIG 245.

45ACP is affected by shorter barrels more than other calibers, so you want to keep the barrel up to at least 4" The 245 has a 3.9" barrel (close enough) and takes P220 8-round mags (though they stick out the bottom a bit). In a 4" barrel, look at the Taurus Hex Bullet, Winchester Ranger, Federal Tactical, or Corbon Pow'R'Ball.

[Walther P99]

How about the Smith & Wesson CS45 - compact but not too small and light recoil with 230gr. Excellent gun.

[New_comer]

Other choices:

HK USP45c - Pricey, but worth every cent

Taurus PT945 - all metal, not polymer, but a rather big 8+1 pistol

Taurus Millenium Pro PT145 - seems like they've licked the frame crack issue with this one. You just can't ignore the 10+1 capacity this little bugger offers.

Cobra Arms Patriot 45 - Taurus-like polymer pistol, 6 in the mag I think, DAO. No bad issues so far, only an incident of failure to lock open, but that can't be too much of a problem.

I don't know if the XD has a 45 in their line-up. If it did, I'd check that one too... ;)

[CasualShooter]

(e) Taurus PT-145: no, thanks, not after the QC problems they've had with them!

It may be a mistake to rule out the Taurus PT-145 as I understand the problem was fixed with pistols manufactured after September, 2001.

You can read all about it on the old TFL at the following thread:

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=1306983#post1306983

Manufacture date may be determined from the first three digits in the serial number;

The first digit will be an "N" - used for all PT-145's
The second digit denotes year - U = 2001, V = 2002, W = 2003, etc.
The third digit denots month - A = Jan, B = Feb, C = Mar, etc.

If you stick with a New Millenium Pistol made in 2002, or later, you should be O.K.

Ergonomically - fits my small hand very well
Decent trigger
Suprisingly accurate
10 + 1 shots

And now they have the Millenium Pro PT-145 which is the same pistol with some additional refinements

If you are near a range where you can rent one of these pistols, you really should try it.

[MolonLabe416]

Pin the grip safety, or

Go with another caliber. There are no magic bullets. Shot placement. Repeat three times.

Ruger P95? Really bad idea.

The Kahr sounds like it might work, if she can get over the artificial 45 caliber deal.

[longeyes]

You said .45 but what's not to like about a Glock 19 with 15
rounds of Cor-Bon Powr'Ball?

[firestar]

I am not recomending it but Mauser made an M2 in .45acp. I don't know nothing about it but nobody mentioned it yet and I thought it might fit the criteria you set down.

The Sig 220/245 grips is not bad for smaller hands but the trigger reach is quite long. If she has long fingers it may do quite well. The SIG is a full sized pistol but next to my brother's Glock 36, it only looks about 1/2" longer in the bbl and grip and the weight is very close also. It is hard to believe but these two gun are more similar than it looks on paper. I could conceal a SIG 220 without too much hassle.

The SIG will shoot MUCH softer and be more accurate for follow up shots also. I am not very recoil sensitive but after a few mags out of my bro's 36, my hand shakes and my trigger finger feels like it is developing a blister and my pinky finger gets pinched between the mag and the frame. I hate the G-36 but my bro loves it and has none of my problems. It just goes to show you that everyone is different and she needs a gun that fits her and suits her.

BTW, I think you are crazy for making her conceal and shoot a compact .45! I think a Bersa .380 or a Kahr K-9 would make a MUCH better choice but you didn't ask for my opinion on that so I will shut up.

[1911Tuner]

Even though it's considered a sub-caliber, the M-84 Beretta has much
going for it. The ability to carry in Condition 1 or 2, thumb safety
very much like the 1911, and a very nice little pistol. Even though
I'm not a fan of the .380 auto cartridge, at close quarters, multiple
rounds amidships would be a hellacious deterrent. Have her train
to shoot for the groin area. I would think that three or four
rounds in man-land would send Hulk Hogan screaming for a
doctor.

They used to be available with 13-round magazines, so I'm sure that there are many still in the loop, though they would probably be costly at the present.

A slimmer package is the M-81, which is a single stack 84. The light
recoil would encourage her to practice, and I have yet to meet a gun-oriented gal who didn't love the little Berettas.

[Berg01]

Take a look at the Smith & Wesson 457 or the Sig P245; my preference would be for the Smith. I'm a Sig fan, but "IMHO", the Smith 457 is a tad better shooter than the P245, but that Sig ain't bad either.

[Lennyjoe]

How about the S&W 99 in .45? Can use the backstraps to adjust grip.

Also, CZ is coming out with the CZ TT Convertible. Can convert from .45 down to .40 and 9mm. http://www.czamerica.com/gfx/bg_tt.jpg

[Redlg155]

I've been through a couple looking for the perfect .45 carry gun and right now I'm on the HK USP C.

The G30 was too fat , but It was scary accurate for a .45. If it wasn't such a pain to carry I'd still have it.

The G36 magazine pinched my pinkie when fired. Plus I could rock the mag back and forth in the magwell. That drove me nuts.

The SIG P245 had a sweet trigger. The problem was that it seemed to have a lot of recoil when compared to the polymer pistols. I just wasn't comfortable with it and couldn't hit very much. The controls also gave me a bit of a fit. I found myself hitting the decocker instead of the slide release numerous times.

If you haven't tried the USP Compact then it would definitely be worth a try. You can carry with the safety on in DA first shot mode, cocked n locked or safety off in DA first shot mode. Plus it has a loaded chamber indicator. The use of metal magazines also slims down the size a good bit from regular full size USP grip frames.

My wife has smallish hands and handles it just fine.

Good Shooting
Red

[mrstang01]

An ex-S.O of mine cleaned the X-ring out of a target with a Witness compact polymer, and she has fairly small hands. 8+1, can use the full-size mags out of the big Witness.

[Specialized]

Well, I'd say the Sig P245, but the trigger pull is going to be a challenge for her. I'd recommend the Springfield Armory Ultra Compact V10. Here's my reasoning:


Porting means much lower recoil -- very manageable.
With slim grips, the grip is smaller than any of the other above-mentioned guns.
The thumb-safety issue can be fixed quickly with a slightly deeper plunger detente and slightly-weakened spring.


All in all, she'd have a very concealable, low-recoil .45 that she should be able to easily handle. Sound good?

Specialized

[rappa]

Recently had to make this decision myself. However, I was on a budget ($600 or less) and local shop choices were limited. Also wanted it specifically for CCW. This pretty much thinned out the herd. Considered the P245 (used), Kimber (used, not sure which model it was), G30 (NIB) and G36(NIB). I decided on the G36. I'm used to the manual of arms (currently carry G19), it fit my budget, it was new, no recall problems (F series) and it felt really good IWB. So far so good after 300 rds of FMJ, JHP, 200gr +P, 230gr (Win whitebox, UMC, Gold Dot).

[Obiwan]

The G36 does not have any worse recoil than any other .45 I have shot

6-7 rounds should be enough...or is there something you are not telling us??

It seems to me that if the G36 is "too much" then a caliber choice is in order

The HK45C is a fine weapon...but can only be considered COMPACT when compared to the full size USP.

(I have one for sale if you decide to go that way)

[DJJ]

Count me among those who think you (both of you) should lobby the husband for a smaller caliber. I'm no Birkenstock-wearing, Dan Fogelberg-listening feminist, but it borders on "outrageous" that he won't allow anything else. Maybe if she puts it in terms of "if you love me, you'll..."

If it works, Kahr P9 perhaps.

[Correia]

There is nothing wrong with the woman insisting on a .45. My wife wants a .45, mainly because I already reload in bulk for it. :) "Honey I'm going to borrow some ammo."

There are plenty of good options, one of which is bound to fit her well.

You know more about Glocks than I do, so I'll skip that.

I like single action the best, and there are some superb compact 1911s out there. Even if she has a problem with some grip safeties, have her try something like an STI Ranger. With the super thin grips, short trigger, and speed bump on the beavertail, she should have no problem reliably depressing the grip safety.

I think the CS45 and 4513TSW are actually very nice guns. Available in DAO or DA/SA. The safety sucks to operate.

Sig 245. Good gun for a DA. Long DA reach if she has short fingers.

HK USP 45 c. Kind of big. I don't particularly care for it, but it is my little brother's favorite gun. Can't fault 100% reliability.

Bersa .45. Compact, affordable. Never shot one myself. No idea.

Mauser M2. Compact, but fat. Trigger pull was okay. Goofiest Safety I have ever seen.

CZ97. Honking enormous beast. Great gun though. :p

Taurus PT .45. Not the polymer gun, but the older aluminum framed gun. Not too fat. Decent trigger (for a DA). Affordable.

Beretta Couger. Fat. Grip way to fat for only 8 rounds.

Witness. Never used one much. No idea.


I would say find her a compact 1911 that fits her. If the grip safety is still a problem, pin it into place and forget about it.

[George Hill]

Para compact LDA would work.
Couger might fit her hand better than one would expect. Yeah, it's only 8 rounds, but so are 1911's and we are talking .45ACP here. Have her feel one of those.

Barring these choices... I'd suggest, like Correia did, one of the small S&W Tactical numbers. They are just as good as SIG pistols, in my opinion... but have the Safety Lever in the wrong location. You get used to it though... I did on my Beretta.

Let us know what she likes. See, that is the key here. It's all about what SHE likes... not us or even you. Let her pick the gun, and she will appreciate it a lot more. Who knows... She might just want a .357Magnum Snubby.

[Preacherman]

OK, folks, the search is over. I took her up to Clark Guns & Personal Safety in Bossier City, LA (run by Jerry and Kay Clark Miculek), and let her handle a number of the possibilities discussed here. For those interested, here are the verdicts on the various models:

1. Glock 36: fit her hand just fine, but she's already shot mine, and found the recoil in the light gun, with the narrower grip, a bit painful for extended shooting - so, this one's out.

2. Glock 30: Too fat in the grip.

3. EAA Witness: Both she and I liked the "feel" of this gun, but it was a bit too fat in the grip for real comfort. Call this one an "also-ran". After handling it, I'm going to see if I can find one somewhere to shoot - it interests me.

4. S&W CS45 and 4513TSW: Both fit her hand fairly well, and the weight and bulk were manageable. Also count these as "also-rans".

5. HK45C: Too big and bulky.

6. Taurus PT145: No... it felt cheap and tacky, the trigger pull was nothing to write home about, and both she and I felt just turned-off by the thing. The past mechanical problems with this gun didn't help!

7. SIG P220: She really liked this gun, as did I. They had a blued one (used) for sale at $550, in very good condition. Eventually, when she chose something else, I bought the P220! :D

8. SIG P245: Sold! This gun fit her well, she liked the size, and it seemed the best option of all the guns she tried. Being a SIG, I have no misgivings about reliability, etc.

She went home to hubby with her new P245, and judging from a phone call he made, I think they're both happy with it. I'm willing to bet that he might want one himself (or at least a P220) for "his and hers" .45's... :D

[sanchezero]

Congratulations to both of you.

:neener:

[10-Ring]

She did good! She bought herself a gun she can be proud of ;) Congrats to all involved :)