[Phydeaux642]

...instead of a "personal defense" round? Is the expansion and penetration (or overpenetration) issues secondary to reliability for those of you that do carry ball ammo loaded in your weapon? The reason I ask is that I recently purchased a small .32 autoloader for carry when I am on my bicycle because of its light weight and size. I am going to carry ball ammo in it because I figure with this caliber, penetration may be more of an issue than overpenetration. That made me wonder how many of you may carry ball ammo in their .45s, 9mms, etc. I thought I read somewhere that Clint Smith carried his weapon loaded with ball ammo but I may be wrong. Just curious.

_________________

"Phydeaux, bad dog....no biscuit!"

[Shooter973]

There are better choices for just a few Dollars.......:)

[BobbyQuickdraw]

In the gun by my bed there are two magazines, one is full of 10 hollow points and the other is full of 10 jacketed rounds.

My default grab is the hollow points. The other mag has the speed loader over it, so I can visually or tactically tell the difference between the two. They're always placed in the same position as well, so no mistaking which one I grab.

[XavierBreath]

When I carry my KelTec P32, I use ball ammunition.

With .32ACP, the real issue is rimlock (http://www.1bad69.com/keltec/rimlock.htm).

On other defensive handguns, I use a round with good expansion properties.

[Javelin]

Im not a big fan of ball ammo. But in a .32 penetration is your paramount necessity so I am not going to say anything negative about it.

If someone were shooting ball ammo 9mm+ then I would have a few questions as to why they were carrying that ammo in a CCW. As ball ammo would just pass through your target and into something else without giving the knock down energy needed to stop an attacker. :)

[hockeybum]

my dad uses ball ammo in his carry gun, walther ppk. i keep telling him he needs to either get a bigger gun or changes his name to james bond. :neener:

[AZ Husker]

With a small caliber, you might want to check out Corbon, Magtech, or Glaser. They all produce amazing results, but are expensive. But if your life depended on it, who cares? You will want to buy enough to make sure they function properly.

[micky692002]

Ball ammo here in a 1911

[AZ Husker]

I carried ball .45 in the Army. Unless you got a head shot, it was worthless. Sure, it might cause a fatal injury, but there wasn't enough shock effect to stop the opponent quickly.

[Hoppy590]

in the 1903, .32 harball
in the p14 .45 hardball

[drdirk]

Ball Ammo for me as well. Feeds the best and with the right placement good enough. Most of the time it is even my own reloads. I practice with them, I carry them in my 1911.

[gbelleh]

I also use FMJ in my P-32, all other defense guns are loaded with HP.

[E357]

FMJ for me in my P-32 and P3AT (.380); anything larger gets fed HP's.

Elliot

[twinhairdryers]

My 9mm autos all feed JHPs as well as ball. My 45's don't. I carry ball in my 1911s. I know they will go bang every time and feed as reliability as my Glock. Not the case with JHPs in all 45s. I think 45 ball is going to slow anyone down. I'm more worried about overpenetration with it than somebody enjoying it and coming back for 7 more, and generally carry my 9mm G-17 with JHPs anyway.

[parisite]

I carry and use ball ammo exclusively in my Makarovs.

Next to shot placement, penetration is most vital.

I also use semi wadcutter ammo in my 2'' 45acp revolver. It might not expand, but it will never be smaller than .452''

[Maximum1]

Too many outstanding defense rounds out there to use ball ammo.

[Ragnar Danneskjold]

I carry Magtech flat nosed FMJ in my .40SW MilPro and in my 9mm Walther P99. I just don't have the money to buy enough expensive super rounds to test out my weapons with them.

[Gordon]

"Unless you got a head shot, it was worthless. Sure, it might cause a fatal injury, but there wasn't enough shock effect to stop the opponent quickly."

Not MY experience at all in the Army:evil:

I usually carry Winchester Ranger Talon in my CCW .45, but don't feel unarmed with ball at all!:D

[MICHAEL T]

My P-32 has Corbon HP in it. Most SD shootings are face on and their more than enough penetration from the Corbon .

[makarovnik]

I do. The .45acp does just fine with FMJ. I also use them in my .380acp because the hollowpoints don't have enough penetration for me.

I use hollowpoints in my 9mm because of the possibility of over-penetration.

[SnakeEater]

I like FMJ in small calibers, everything 9mm and up gets JHP. You see many 1911 guys use FMJ because of reliability reasons, most other pistols are reliable with JHP's.

[AZ Husker]

A cap and ball musket will do the job, but why not use the most effective ammo available? You're only hurting yourself!

[NoScreenName]

I have sometimes carried fmj's in my 9x18 mak in the past... but I really like the 115gr bear jhp's now.

Shhh... don't tell anyone.

[Mad Magyar]

"Unless you got a head shot, it was worthless. Sure, it might cause a fatal injury, but there wasn't enough shock effect to stop the opponent quickly."

Not MY experience at all in the Army

Well, perhaps we ought to revisit WW1 and Sgt. Alvin York & the Medal of Honor. Using a 1911 w/hardball his citation states: he stopped a squad of eight German soldiers with eight one-shot hits from his pistol. Using the RII, aka Relative Incapacitation Index that was used for many decades, the odds against this was over 32 million to one. In addition to his Medal of Honor, perhaps old Alvin deserved an award as the "world's luckiest man!":)
Give me a break....Jeff Cooper, Clint Smith, Skeeter Skelton, Bill Jordan, on & on...Chuck Taylor in a recent interview stated that he would give a slight edge to hardball. His experience dwarfs most mortals in firefights...
Personally, my mags are interspersed with JHP's & FMJ.
I can't shoot as good as Alvin....:)

[Spot77]

"Carry what you practice with," is what I was always told.


I can't afford to practice with Corbon and Speer, so it looks like I carry a lot of ball ammo when I can carry at all.

[perpster]

Don't remember where I first heard it, but "they all fall to ball". I have no idea if it's true or not; just sayin' I heard it said.

[NewShooter]

There have been several cases where a prosecutor used the HP ammo against the defendant. Would this factor in to anyones decision?
Sorry if I'm off topic but I dont believe so.

[redneckrepairs]

All my pistols fee hp ammo so that is what i use .

[perpster]

There have been several cases where a prosecutor used the HP ammo against the defendant. Would this factor in to anyones decision?
Sorry if I'm off topic but I dont believe so.
Well I hope that prosecutor had a CCW license and was justified in shooting!:D
But seriously, I have heard people, including an ex-cop, say they only use ball ammo precisely because it gives one less factor to be seized upon against you if you are in a shooting, while still being arguably a very effective round. The discussion was limited to .45 ACP. FWIW.

[fletcher]

Only in my P32, sometimes Makarov in winter.

[8830]

I used FMJs in my mouseguns for penetration and in my 45 but I put hollowpoints in the 38, 40 and 9mm. I've seen one shot stops with 9mm FMJ and 40 JHP so I really don't think it matters. It's all about shot placement.

[mustachio]

+P Hollow points in my .38, hydrashok in my 9mm, ball in my .380 and .45 (for positive feeding)

I feel well armed just the way I carry them.

[possum]

i don't use ball for sd/hd, as far as reliability goes, none of the guns that i carry or use for hd/sd or any of my guns for that matter have issues feeding jhp's.thats why it is important to try what ever you plan to carry and try different types o see what does best for you and in your weapon.

[Ken Rainey]

I use 230 fmj in my Kimber Ultra Eclipse...with a three inch barrel, a standard pressure hollowpoint probably won't expand, and if it did, it probably wouldn't penetrate enough..and more importantly, it's reliable (and accurate) with it ;)

[CajunBass]

It depends really. I figure ball ammo is better than no ammo.

[Whirlwind06]

I'm carrying FMJ right now in my KT P11 because that is all I can afford right now. It doesn't feed 147 grain WWB from wal-mart very well. So it is loaded with FMJ.

[1911user]

Only FMJ in 380 and smaller mousegun calibers. Good JHP for anything more than a 380.

[mljdeckard]

In my issue Beretta, Uncle makes me carry FMJ. For THIS REASON ALONE, if we are going to pretend to abide by the Hague Accords which we never signed, we should at least use the round that is most effective in ball. (230 gr .45 acp.)

In my civilian carry gun, ONLY premium 230 grain JHP ammo.

[dstorm1911]

if I'm going to the backup (keltec p3at) he's already against the muzzle....... JHPs are NOT going to have a penetration issue, if your going to use a P32 at ranges that make 60 grn HPs an issue then pentration isn't your problem..... hitting the target while he's tryin to hit you is now your primary concern.... at realistic P32 engagement distances HP is not going to have any problem penetrating, get ya a cheap beef briskit and take it out with your P32, load up the P32 with 60 grain HPs and stand 5 yards back and fire 2 shots...... now go take a look...... your into the attackers vitals as ya got total penetration now step back to 10 yards.... ya still got full penetration now step back to 15 yards holster the p32 or put it in your pocket or however else ya carry it have someone YELL at you to draw right in your ear and continue to yell in your ear while you empty the clip into the brisket........... how many rounds actually even hit it? ;) poor mans stressfire practice now start repeating as ya move closer to the target.... once ya get to a distance ya can draw and accuratly fire at............ ya got 100% penetration

put that piece of meat away and repeat with ball........... can hardly spot the tiny lil exit holes huh? look at the exit holes for the JHP though...

BEFORE I go to the P3AT, the BG has already been hit by 10 rounds of 230 grn JHP if that didn't stop him then whats in the P3AT is going to make very little difference because he's a zombie

ALL of my guns are 100% reliable and feed ball or JHP or lead all equally as well if not then I either correct the problem or they go to the back of the vault.......

[1035 TOG]

I use ball ammo exclusively in my carry 1911's.

[cnorman18]

I carry Double Tap ball ammo in my P3AT. It feeds anything, but in .380 I think penetration is key. Expansion is iffy from a barrel that short, anyway.

Just for the record: I once personally asked Jeff Cooper himself, in a letter, if there were an advantage to using hollowpoints in a .45. I got a personal reply, in which he said the difference was not significant enough to bet your life on.

PS--just got word from the Texas govt. Website that my CHL was issued today. In a few days, I can start putting all this theory into practice.

[American_Pit_Bull]

I carry a 9mm and I wouldn't think of carrying ball...

I think that the only time that the caliber debate is even worth a grain of salt, is when comparing ball ammo. Modern day JHPs are what I would bet my life on.

[Titan6]

Like all military I carry ball ammo since it is required by law. Were I able to pick and choose I would probably pick one of the +P HPs. But it certainly is not worthless.

[barnetmill]

I am going to start using fmj in my little keltecs. The only misgiving that I have over it is that hollow points are usually loaded to maximum pressure but some fmj loads are not. The reason for using fmj is penetration on big people. There are young thugs today that are grossly overweight and a little more penetration may be needed. Some of these people also have thick skulls and heavy bones and hitting major organs or nervous tissue important.

The FMJ also give better functioning. In .25 ACP I prefer to use reloads that are loaded to max pressure. Many factory loads are underloaded in my opinion and may not function the slide or penetrate as they should.

[cnorman18]

You might want to look into Double Tap .380 FMJs. They're loaded hot for max penetration. That's what I carry in my P3AT.

[.357 magnum]

You know in a .32 it sounds like a pretty good Idea to achieve penetration. In my 9mm's .40's and .45, I use the most technologically advance Hollow Points for the stopping power. In larger calibers modern bullet technology makes the stopping power advantages of hollow points very much in your favor. As for Chuck Taylor, Jeff Cooper, etc. I could give a shi$$ what they use.:fire: They are not there to fight my battles and they were not there in the gun fights I had in past LE experience. Save the ball for practice. The Winchester Ranger T, Federal HST, Speer Gold Dot, Winchester SXT, and Remington Golden Saber to name a few, are all Excellent Loads. With Higher Accuracy, Excellent Stopping Power and Reliability. Especially the re-designed Winchester Ranger T and The Federal HST they offer some Very Good Penetration and Expansion. The Speer Gold Dots are right up there on the list.

The Best to You and Yours!

Frank

http://www.prestostore.com/cgi-bin/store.pl?ref=hotpig27&ct=65201&or=1231910

[Jkwas]

Ball in my Keltec (won't feed HP's) and JHP in all else. To be honest, I wouldn't hesitate to use FMJ in any gun.

[mavracer]

I use ball in the makarov and PP.they don't get carried much.every thing else gets good hollow points and gets carried more

[DENALI]

Hey someone correct me if I'm wrong but in states like NY and NJ ain't it illegal to even own (civillian) hollow point ammo?

[velojym]

I keep ball in my little 1911, at least until I can ensure that it's utterly reliable with anything else (already polished the feedramp, and its waiting for another trip to the range).
My XD, on the other hand, has digested several brands of JHP ammo without a hiccup, and I'm still working on figuring out what it likes best.

[Dave Markowitz]

When I carry my Makarov it's loaded with ball. I am suspicious that a JHP from 9x18 will penetrate sufficiently.

However, after carrying my SIG P225 for the first time last night, I doubt I'll carry the Mak anymore. The SIG is about the same size and not much heavier, but shoots a much more powerful round (9mm Parabellum vs. 9x18).

[SeanSw]

For those of you carrying ball ammunition what brand is being used? Are you using premium FMJ or the value branded stuff?

[Mad Magyar]

or the value branded stuff?
I use American Eagle, LAWMAN, & Remington FMJ...I stopped shopping at Wally World as a protest for not carrying a better variety of ammo; hence no WWB from them...:)

[dewidmt]

I carry a P-32 KelTec also some of the time. The way to get around rimlock is to load the chamber and the first round of the mag with whatever HP you like best (mine are Federal 65gr). After that, the rest of the mag is Fiocchi FMJ, the Europeans seem to load their .32 ammo a bit hotter than US specs.

[denfoote]

I use 71gr Winchester USA truncated cone hardball in my P32.

[harbinger_j]

Hey someone correct me if I'm wrong but in states like NY and NJ ain't it illegal to even own (civillian) hollow point ammo?

In NJ it is complicated and you can own HP ammo and practice with it and have it in your home. But you can't carry it, and if you shot someone with it... you'd better have a good lawyer.

[S&Wfan]

This is the backup ammo I use with my chopped 25-2, which is mainly a "car" gun and, at night, a "nightstand" gun. I posted this originally before noticing the thread asked about CARRY guns. However, in winter sometimes I DO use this weapon for carry so . . . here goes:

It is stoked with Federal HydraShok (.230gn.) with several moon clips for backup in 230 gn hollowpoint (Federal factory Hydrashok and currently some handloaded Speer HPs using Federal 150 primers, since I'm temporarily very low on Hydrashok). Rarely would I reach for the handloads first, as I believe you are a little safer in court later if you aren't using handloads.

Also some hardball for use if I ever must use it against a BG in a car, plus a couple of clips of that nasty Aguila 117gn. hollow point stuff. An area LEO capitain said they'd been having some great results with the Aguila against car doors and such in department tests.

http://216.77.188.54/coDataImages/p/Groups/363/363373/folders/282194/2256768new25-2plusmoonclips-edited.jpg

T.

[gym]

Get a box ot Winchester silvertips, for your 32, that is all the early Seacamps would shoot. Larry Seacamp made the gun around that load for a reason, Silvertips have a great expansion design because of the soft metal, "silver". They also have "mag safes" for 32's that work well, you can alternate them or keep a silvertip in the tube, and mag safe's behind. Just my 2 cents

[jdorian]

I alternate the rounds, FMJ and JHP in my mags. And I also keep a mag of just each one available. So no matter what, I have a prepared mag of the right ammo. I don't carry very often. Around the house, its going to be a minute or two to get it out of the safe, and prepare for an intruder. Definitely not using ownership for personal defense, as I have never had the chance to shoot my JHP rounds, but that should change next week when I get to the range.

[shamus]

In a defensive situation, any handgun will feel inadequate, hollowpoints or not. If you feel otherwise, you may be deluding yourself.

I'm comfortable using anything that feeds and shoots accurately. I'd prefer jhps though for the extra benefits, but I don't see them as magic bullets.

There is no such thing as stopping power. Shot placement, shot placement, shot placement.

[jimmyraythomason]

Ball only in my Ruger KP90.

[Mad Magyar]

Get a box ot Winchester silvertips, for your 32,

+1 on that....Excellent choice on smaller calibers....

[g21forme]

JHP all the way, I won't own/carry a gun that won't feed them.

Oh and s&w fan aquila .45 iq sucks balls

[nathan]

FMJ here for me. But i also have Star brand JHP 230 gr in my other 1911.

[Zundfolge]

Back when I CCW'd a Makarov I loaded it with FMJ because I just didn't trust the little 9x18 to expand reliably.

But if you're packing a 9x19 or larger, I'd still recommend JHPs