The Danger of Pocket Carry (IMPD)


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El Tejon
December 13, 2007, 11:37 AM
We've been over this many times at THR on the dangers of carrying pistols in your pockets, especially when little kids are killed by this stupidity. However, it has happened again. Stop doing this. It is dangerous to you and others around you and it is slow to action.

Do not listen to the Gun Shoppe Commandos who tell you it is "all you need." Buy a good holster AND good belt, put your pistol in said holster. Carry on then.

**********************************************************

http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071213/LOCAL/712130526

Off-duty cop shoots self in foot

By Vic Ryckaert
vic.ryckaert@indystar.com

An off-duty police officer shot himself in the foot at a Westside auto parts store Wednesday.

Indianapolis Metropolitan Police Department Officer Thomas D Weida, 40, suffered a bullet wound to his right foot when his .45-caliber handgun accidentally discharged at the W I Motor Supply store, 4250 W. Morris St., at 3:15 p.m., according to a police report.

The gun was Weida's personal firearm and not department issue, police said. He was carrying it in his front pocket when it fired.
"When he reached in to his pocket to pull out his key ring it became entangled in the trigger of the pistol and it discharged," Sgt. Paul Thompson said in a written statement.

Weida was taken to Methodist Hospital in good condition, Thompson said.
No one else was injured.

Weida, a nine-year veteran, is assigned to the department's traffic section.

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Hokkmike
December 13, 2007, 11:39 AM
Thanks for the good word. Sometimes when I get "lazy" I throw my .380 in my pocket. No more.

BryanP
December 13, 2007, 11:40 AM
The only way to pocket carry is with a proper pocket holster.

TexasRifleman
December 13, 2007, 11:43 AM
As the story shows here it's not pocket carry that is the danger, it's carelessness.

I pocket carry my KelTec but nothing is ever in the pocket with it, and it's in a Nemesis to keep things covered.
Why would you ever put anything else in that pocket? That's just dumb.

There is no safe method of carry if the brain of the carrier is not engaged.

Blame the user, not the tool used, just like everything else gun related.

VARifleman
December 13, 2007, 11:45 AM
I agree with TR. This is not because of pocketcarry, but because the guy carried other things in thes same pocket.

crankshop1000
December 13, 2007, 11:52 AM
Glockleg...HooRah, pixiedust!

RKBABob
December 13, 2007, 11:53 AM
When he reached in to his pocket to pull out his key ring it became entangled in the trigger...Please, do not use your triggerguard as a key ring!!!

Weida, a nine-year veteran, is assigned to the department's traffic section.Well, they can't put him on foot patrol now!

romma
December 13, 2007, 12:10 PM
Yup, Keltec Nemesis holster front pocket nothing else in it...

fletcher
December 13, 2007, 12:13 PM
As the story shows here it's not pocket carry that is the danger, it's carelessness.
+1. Pocket carry is not a problem, risk, or danger, etc., just don't be stupid about it. When I pocket carry, I use a holster, and have nothing in that pocket that can catch on the firearm. No risk at all.

40SW
December 13, 2007, 12:16 PM
Pocket carry is not dangerous. Negligence and stupidy are.
I agree 100%, Get a good holster. I use a variety of carrying options, including pocket carry, it is determined by my wardrobe and situation.
This individual should not have mixed the key chain and the rig in the same pocket. When I pocket carry, the only thing in that designated pocket is the firearm and the holster, the key chain and wallet are in another pocket.
Accidental discharges don't exist, Negligent discharges do. The method of carry is not to blame. The individual is.

RangerVA
December 13, 2007, 12:27 PM
Yup, Keltec Nemesis holster front pocket nothing else in it...

+1 That's how I roll

jackstinson
December 13, 2007, 12:28 PM
This kind of reinforces the need for training before getting a CCW/CHL. I'm fairly certain that the LEO was trained and knew better....or at least he should have known and I'll bet he does now.
In Ohio, we are required to carry in a holster. You can't just throw a loose handgun into your pocket. I also usually carry a P3AT in a DeSantis Nemesis holster in either my front jeans pocket or my jacket pocket. I'd never put keys or anything else into that same pocket.
The rare times I carry something larger than the P3AT, it's in a holster on my belt. And I am sure no one has ever accidentally discharged a firearm from a belt holster....uh right. :D
Jack

tnieto2004
December 13, 2007, 12:31 PM
He shouldn't keep his keys in his pocket with his gun .. Pocket carry is fine if you do it right..

Roswell 1847
December 13, 2007, 12:32 PM
Quote:
When he reached in to his pocket to pull out his key ring it became entangled in the trigger...

Please, do not use your triggerguard as a key ring!!!

My older brother had a Colt style single shot derringer in his front pocket and caught his keyring around the hammer spur. When he yanked out his keys the gun went off and missed the family jewels by a fraction of an inch and set his pants to smoldering.

Tommygunn
December 13, 2007, 12:35 PM
It's not pocket carry per se that's dangerous. In this case he kept keys in the same pocket. If you want to pocket carry, the pocket should be used ONLY for the gun. No keys, flashlights, pens, loose change, paper money, or anything else.
It is probably a good idea to get a holster, but pocket carry can be done right too.

GigaBuist
December 13, 2007, 12:35 PM
his .45-caliber handgun
Okay, who makes a .45 that can be pocketed?

TexasRifleman
December 13, 2007, 12:36 PM
I'm fairly certain that the LEO was trained and knew better....or at least he should have known and I'll bet he does now.

Why would you think that? I bet there is zero training on proper concealed pocket carry as part of an LEOs training.

This has nothing to do with training, this is common sense and unfortunately that can't be taught.

I can never understand why people assume that cops have more training on guns than anyone else. Guns and their use are 5 percent or less of what cops do every day.

I suspect that 90 percent of us on THR spend more time reading about, thinking about, and using, guns than the average LEO.

Biker
December 13, 2007, 12:37 PM
AMT.380 DAO Backup in my left hip pocket behind a folded up sheet of paper or behind my bandanna. Handy, concealed and safe. Good little Bug.

Biker

fletcher
December 13, 2007, 12:38 PM
Okay, who makes a .45 that can be pocketed?
I thought the same thing :p

http://www.internetguncatalog.com/pics/Large/11586.jpg????

PennsyPlinker
December 13, 2007, 12:45 PM
I pocket carry all the time, with Nemesis pocket holsters for a variety of guns. I can stuff a Kel Tec P3AT, a S&W 638-2, a Taurus PT-145 Mil Pro, or a CZ 75 P-01 in my pocket as long as they are in DeSantis holsters. A gun with no holster is way too scary. I would be afraid of shooting off other important parts besides my foot. :what:

Nothing else goes in that pocket (most of the time), but when I accidentally put something in, the holster is what keeps me from shooting myself in the foot, or in the aforementioned other important parts.

40SW
December 13, 2007, 12:48 PM
"Okay, who makes a .45 that can be pocketed? " quote.

Glock model 36 + cargo pants+ galco leather.
Still counts as a pocket. :)

M2 Carbine
December 13, 2007, 12:51 PM
"When he reached in to his pocket to pull out his key ring it became entangled in the trigger of the pistol and it discharged," Sgt. Paul Thompson said in a written statement.

Rule number one when using any machinery, whether it's a gun or chain saw, you have to be smarter than the machinery.

There's nothing wrong with proper pocket carry, unless of course you walk around with your head up your butt.:rolleyes:

Mulliganpaintdee
December 13, 2007, 12:59 PM
Sorry if this is an old or previous post, but you should check out this youtube video on a certain pocket carrier and how careless he was

WARNING: May not be suitable for some viewers
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Xr1t881e6c&feature=related

Roswell 1847
December 13, 2007, 01:05 PM
Several pocket pistols I've cleaned up show unusualy heavy rust pitting at the muzzle while theres none further back where you'd expect to see more.
I figured out why after an old timer brought in his personal pocket gun still in a pocket holster he'd made probably thirty years before.
The stitching had come loose at the toe and the bore of his pistol was completely plugged with pocket lint the consistency of felt.
I later noticed that after carrying a small revolver in the pocket for only a couple of hours that pocket lint coated the first inch of the bore.
Pocket lint would leech away protexctive oils and draw moisture inducing localised rust.

jackstinson
December 13, 2007, 01:10 PM
Okay, who makes a .45 that can be pocketed?
The "DOWNSIZER WSP" in .45 ACP
http://members.aol.com/wsp45/WSP3.jpg


I can never understand why people assume that cops have more training on guns than anyone else.
Most likely because they carry guns as part of their job. I know it's unfair to think that anyone knows more about guns than THR forum members. :D
Is Ohio the only state which requires firearm qualification for all LEO's within the state? Yikes! :D
Jack

40SW
December 13, 2007, 01:10 PM
Roswell:
Excellent points about residue and lint impacting the pistol's action and reliability. This is exactly why I rotate the pistols I carry and clean/maintain them on a regular basis.
I also rotate the ammo/magazines at least once every 6 months .

jackstinson
December 13, 2007, 01:31 PM
Excellent points about residue and lint impacting the pistol's action and reliability.
I picked up a little FIE Titan .25 a few months ago. Inside the slide was a "one inch long felt washer" totally compacted around and in the recoil spring. It was both funny and sad. That gun had been in someone's pocket a lot! Cleaned up great though.
Anyone who carries (pocket or not) should be keeping their guns clean and well-maintained. Who knows what airborne stuff gets into a gun on a belt holster as well? I check my pocket guns prior to putting it in my pocket holster in the morning and when I take it out again...to insure they are lint-free. I clean them regularly. I wash my pants now and then also :)
Jack

Jack

tinygnat219
December 13, 2007, 01:39 PM
El Tejon,

Sorry, I have to seriously disagree with your call to stop Pocket Carry. I think you are basing all pocket carriers off of the cop that managed to shoot himself. The way in which he did pocket carry led to the ND.
Here's what needs to be done / considered for pocket carry:


Get a good, quality Holster that protects and covers the trigger.
Do not carry keys in the same pocket.
Do not carry reloads in the same pocket
Do not carry ANYTHING else in the same pocket that you carry your firearm in[LIST]
Take the gun out of the holster on a daily basis and inspect for lint or other obstructions
Field strip the gun at least once a week to ensure no more dirt / grit / lint has gotten in the gun.
Remember the 4 rules and practice them.
Practice your draw stroke.

Noxx
December 13, 2007, 01:39 PM
Okay, who makes a .45 that can be pocketed?

Depends on your pockets. I can put a 1911 in the hip pocket of my golf shorts and not get made.

GaryL
December 13, 2007, 01:42 PM
I know some people don't like safeties, but it only takes a little practice to get good at - and in the natural habit of - flicking off a safety while pulling out a firearm.

Roswell 1847
December 13, 2007, 01:43 PM
Roswell:
Excellent points
Thanks I hope these little stories about the many out of the ordinary experiances I've had in repairing or refurbishing abused firearms will prevent damage and accidents in the future.

If for some reason you feel the need to pocket carry a small auto pistol.
A good substitute for a pocket holster is the common soft eyeglasses case.
Just pick out the stitching far enough that the triggerguard and handle don't prevent the muzzle of the gun from reaching the bottom.
Generally the case will cover the entire slide of a pocket auto preventing pocket debris from fouling the hammer or getting into any openings around the trigger or ejection port, and hopefully prevent the safety from being disengaged by accident if you carry with one up the pipe.
The broad rectangular shape of the case helps it remain oriented in the pocket, and if the gun is light in weight the pocket clip will prevent it from sliding deep in the pocket so if theres anything else in the pocket at the bottom it won't come in contact. That only goes for the sturdy spring steel enforced pocket clip, not the plastic clips which break easily.
Smallest pocket autos will ride with the butt just below the top seam of the pocket this way.

Not as good as a purpose made pocket holster but handy and more secure than it sounds, at least with blue jeans.

Werewolf
December 13, 2007, 01:44 PM
The gun was Weida's personal firearm and not department issue, police said. He was carrying it in his front pocket when it fired.
"When he reached in to his pocket to pull out his key ring it became entangled in the trigger of the pistol and it discharged," Sgt. Paul Thompson said in a written statement.
The problem isn't pocket carry it's the guy doing it. Pure unadulterated STUPIDITY! :banghead:

1. Need a holster
2. Nothing goes in the pocket but the holstered gun
3. A .45 ACP in a pocket :rolleyes:

jrou111
December 13, 2007, 01:57 PM
Carrying an unholstered pistol in your pocket with keys is about as smart as running the belt through the trigger guard.

fletcher
December 13, 2007, 02:00 PM
running the belt through the trigger guard.
Talk about retention :neener:

silverking
December 13, 2007, 02:02 PM
I know I'll feel a lot more comfortable when my Mika pocket holster gets here. I often pocket carry my S&W 642 in my riding vest. It's in the inside weak side pocket. This allows for a cross draw configuration and the pocket has a snap closure to keep the snubby in a pretty tight position(muzzle facing aft). I'll still feel better knowing the holstered gun is more secure. Maybe I won't be able to snap close the pocket with the holster. If that's the case, I have to find another way to carry while riding. At any rate, when I pocket carry, the snubby is a loner in that pocket.

SEMO Shooter
December 13, 2007, 02:09 PM
A soft side holster is not sufficient for pocket carry. With a softside holster if something pokes against your pants and soft side holster into the trigger guard it can go boom in your pocket. I personally know someone that had this happen with an Uncle Mike's pocket holster. Buy a leather holster with sufficient trigger protection.

Clipper
December 13, 2007, 02:13 PM
Any ***hole who would pocket carry:
A) Without a holster, &
B) With ANYTHING else in the same pocket,
...Deserves whatever happens to his dumb ***!

I sure as hell am not gonna stop pocket carrying because some idiot shot himself by being felony stupid, and the fact that he's a LEO only proves the old addage that 'owning a hammer don't make you a carpenter, boy...'

Snarlingiron
December 13, 2007, 02:14 PM
My family was in the Jewelry business when I was growing up, and handguns were a common thing in our family. My brother one afternoon placed a 1911 in his front slacks pocket (he is a big boy, 6'3" 280 pounds) while taking a break during the busy Christmas season, and sat down. The pistol was cocked and had a round chambered. He shifted his weight and something triggered it. Who knows, keys, whatever. The round entered his upper thigh, and exited just above his knee cap. He recovered with no serious permanant damage.

I say this just to demonstrate that I have witnessed the danger of IMPROPER pocket carry first hand. With all that said, I carry a Glock 26 with a round in the chamber, in a DeSantis Nemisis pocket holster almost daily (dress requirements for work and the weather often do not permit anything else). I never, and I mean never put anything in that pocket except the holstered pistol.

Now, I will readily admit it is not quick to deploy, but it is still better than not having it at all. When dress permits (most weekends) I do carry with a proper holster and belt.

rcmodel
December 13, 2007, 02:21 PM
There is nothing inherently dangerous with pocket carry if you use a pocket holster.

However, if you stick a Glock in your pocket without a holster, along with your car keys, like this idiot probably did, you may shoot yourself or someone else.

We had a local cop shoot himself in the leg with a S&W snub-nose revolver while absentmindedly playing with it in his pocket a few years ago!

There are just some folks who shouldn't be allowed around loaded guns!

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j219/rcmodel/KTOG/1224.gif
rcmodel

Kevin108
December 13, 2007, 02:27 PM
I occasionally pocket carry my Raven but when I do, it's the only think in that particular pocket and it's always in a cargo pocket down near my knee.

I have a buddy at work that pocket carried a small revolver. One day at the range he pulled it out of his pocket and the trigger was determined not to pull. He inspected it and a penny had wedged under the trigger preventing rearward travel. I'm glad he figure out the possibility of that happening with his gun before he really needed it!

LiquidTension
December 13, 2007, 02:41 PM
Nothing goes in my gun pocket except the 642 and the holster. No change, no keys, nothing.

dastardly-D
December 13, 2007, 02:44 PM
If you decide to carry a weapon in your pocket-never-never-ever carry anything else but a weapon in that pocket.If you have 10 pocketsfull of junk to carry around,get in the habit of putting it anywhere but your weapon pocket.Keep this embedded in your brain that the only thing in your weapon pocket......is a weapon ! Much less chance of some kind of accident happening also.........Thanks for the rant.:banghead: -D

Sistema1927
December 13, 2007, 02:47 PM
"Some idiots are beyond proof" and "Make something idiot proof and somebody will build a better idiot" both come to mind.

I pocket carry a Kahr PM9 in a DeSantis Nemesis pocket holster every day, but I follow some common sense rules:

1) Nothing but the pistol with holster goes in that pocket.
2) The pistol is cleaned and inspected each and every week.
3) Carry ammo is replaced regularly.

Firearms are safe if safely used.

phaed
December 13, 2007, 02:52 PM
Stop doing this

thanks, but i'll make my own decisions, thank you.

there are safe ways to pocket carry.

Old Fuff
December 13, 2007, 05:17 PM
there are safe ways to pocket carry.

You bet there are, and maybe someday somebody will let me have bullets...

It can be said that an unloaded gun is a safe one... ;)

Maybe useless, but completely safe... :D

Some folks should try it. :evil:

thanks, but i'll make my own decisions, thank you.

Well if you say so... :rolleyes:

jrfoxx
December 13, 2007, 06:19 PM
The only way to pocket carry is with a proper pocket holster.
Agreed.Also, IMHO, only a moron would carry anything else in the pocket with the gun.Put your "crap" in another pocket, you have several to choose from.Never seen any pair of pants with only 1 pocket.Seems like common sense, but.....

Okay, who makes a .45 that can be pocketed?
I'll be the Para Ordinance "Hawg" series could easily be pocket carried.They are pretty darn small and light.

Daemon688
December 13, 2007, 08:09 PM
Why anyone would want to carry without a holster to cover the trigger is beyond me....

rdrancher
December 13, 2007, 08:28 PM
Sorry if this is an old or previous post, but you should check out this youtube video on a certain pocket carrier and how careless he was

WARNING: May not be suitable for some viewers
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Xr1t...eature=related

I saw that video last night for the first time. Even though his buddies were telling him "not a good idea" he still did and paid the price.

Just goes to show - You can't help the helpless.

I carry a 642 in a pocket holster everyday. Nothing else goes in that pocket...EVER!

RD

Soybomb
December 13, 2007, 08:52 PM
Would you call someone that shot their crotch off carrying mexican an example of the dangers of IWB carry? Of course not, you'd call them dumb for not using a holster. Its dangerous to carry guns in an unsafe fashion. That can be mexican carry or a pocket gun with no holster and junk in your pocket. Carry your guns properly and you'll be fine no matter if they're in your pocket or in your waist band.

Geronimo45
December 13, 2007, 10:51 PM
It is dangerous to you and others around you and it is slow to action.
Can o' worms hereby opened fer sure.

I knew when I first pocket-carried not to let anything else be in that pocket. Keys for sure. Spare change when I noticed a coppery scuff on the finish. Only the gun, holster, and lint go in that pocket nowadays.

TallPine
December 13, 2007, 10:58 PM
The magnificent ET has spoken.

:D

Tom Servo
December 13, 2007, 11:37 PM
I pocket carry, but the gun (holstered) is the only thing in that pocket. Since it's strictly a backup, speed of draw isn't too important.

As far as being hazardous, I think that's a bit of a stretch. Sounds like Weida needs remedial firearms safety training. There are some people who are a danger to themselves carrying on the hip in a Level III Nuclear Rhino quadruple retention holster--they don't speak for the vast majority, though.

And yeah, the pocket holding the gun holds ONLY the gun. In my case, it's a DA revolver, so it would take a weird alignment of the planets coupled with heinously bad luck for something to inadvertently stroke a 10lb trigger all the way to the rear.

Lewis Wetzel
December 14, 2007, 12:07 AM
Big time objection here to saying 'no pocket carry'....Keep the gun clean....use a revolver with a bobbed hammer. Watch for lint.

Guys sound like antis here...

The fellow withe the .45 had a round in the chamber...who knows the status of the cock on the piece? Keys in the pocket? Good Lord almighty....and it's the fault of "pocket carry"? I don't THINK so...

GUNS ARE NOT IDIOT PROOF. "EEZ DANERGEROUS...EEZZ GONNNN..."

Old Fuff
December 14, 2007, 12:23 AM
Guys...

Don't blow a cork. :eek:

This was all solved back in 88.... 1888 that is, by Smith & Wesson.
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=69089&stc=1&d=1197604914

Notice the grip safety. If you don't depress the safety the trigger can't be pulled. No holster necessary.

Just drop the revolver into the pocket with change, keys, pocket knife, whatever.

The old boys had it figgered out. It's you tactical types with internal locks that are always getting into trouble... :neener:

Old Fuff
December 14, 2007, 01:08 AM
Oh Dear Me....

What will El T have to say about this.... :what:

Sometimes it doesn't pay to get up in the morning. :D


Man Accidentally Shoots Self in Buttocks
December 13, 2007 6:15 PM EST

SCOTTSDALE, Ariz. - A Scottsdale man inadvertently shot himself in the buttocks Thursday morning. Scottsdale police Sgt. Mark Clark said Daniel Leatherman, 26, heard a disturbance outside his apartment and saw a man he knew fighting with a cab driver.

Leatherman told police that the man, Cody Nunn, 25, had assaulted him in the past, so he grabbed his gun and went outside.

Leatherman told police that he accidentally dropped the gun while hiding it behind his back and shot himself in the derriere.

Nunn and Leatherman's friends took him to a local hospital. When police arrived, Clark said Nunn was drunk and disruptive. He was arrested on suspicion of disorderly conduct.

Leatherman was released from the hospital later Thursday. There were no phone listings for Leatherman or Nunn.


http://enews.earthlink.net/article/str?guid=20071213/4760bc50_3ca6_1552620071213-1760993983

Gee I wonder... Somebody in Arizona where it's warm (sometimes) is going to need an attorney, and right now it's cold in Indiana... :evil:

gbran
December 14, 2007, 01:16 AM
I don't exclusively pocket carry, but I have done this for many years without a holster. Not all guns can or should be carried like this, but never carry anything else in the same pocket. Of course, not all pockets are created equal too.

I don't plan to change my ways because some people aren't cautious.

Car Knocker
December 14, 2007, 01:57 AM
Okay, who makes a .45 that can be pocketed?
Kimber Ultra Carry. Everyday. In a custom pocket holster.

MarkDido
December 14, 2007, 08:31 AM
As the story shows here it's not pocket carry that is the danger, it's carelessness.

I pocket carry my KelTec but nothing is ever in the pocket with it, and it's in a Nemesis to keep things covered.
Why would you ever put anything else in that pocket? That's just dumb.


Same here.

P32 in a Don Hume pocket holster and nothing else. No need to ever go into that pocket unless I need the gun.

308win
December 14, 2007, 08:36 AM
I wasn't the pocket carry; it was negligence on the part of the carrier. I pocket carry a DAO in a pocket holster all most all of the time; the only thing in that pocket is the handgun in its holster and a speed strip. Keys etc go in other pockets.

El Tejon
December 14, 2007, 08:56 AM
Regardless of how many do it, the fact remains that pocket carry is slow and dangerous.

I will convert you all!:D

40SW
December 14, 2007, 09:02 AM
" You will be assimilated!, resistence is futile!!" THE BORG
:eek::D

atomd
December 14, 2007, 09:13 AM
Man....that youtube video is so fake. I can't believe you guys fell for that!:uhoh:

308win
December 14, 2007, 09:32 AM
We will just have to agree to disagree on this one. For what it's worth I agree with most things I see you post here.

#shooter
December 14, 2007, 10:09 AM
I carry my 380 all the time in my DeSantis Nemesis holster. This is user error and just plain stupid. Don’t dig around in your pocket for change or keys where your pistol is. I never put anything in that pocket but the gun. I am glad it wasn’t a regular joe with a ccw because the news people would have a field day on why ccw is dangerous. This also dispels the popular myth that police are “trained firearm experts.” I am just glad no one else was hurt.

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